Read Any Good Books Lately? Part II

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I tried to post in the original thread, but was prevented from doing so by a message that informed me that the thread was too old to add responses.

Just in case some of you are still reading books and would like to share, I am reviving the thread. I would personally prefer novels by Japanese authors or novels involving Japan, but any novel is fine.

I'm not sure where I picked it up, but a few months ago I read a captivating and haunting novel by Natsuo Kirino called Grotesque. Once I started the novel, it stayed with me, even when I was not reading.

Grotesque-web.jpg



The New York Times describes the novel better than I could...

“Grotesque” is full of schoolgirls in long socks but blanchingly free of cuteness, a combination we might call Uh-Oh Kitty. Natsuo Kirino started out as a romance novelist before turning to crime fiction, which seems to suit her rather better. She has written 4 story collections and 16 novels, of which this is the second to be translated into English. The first, “Out,” was the cheerful tale of a factory worker who colludes with co-workers to murder her husband; they cut him up and distribute pieces of him around Tokyo. In “Grotesque,” she dismembers the detective novel instead, hacking off suspense, glamour, mystery and horror to leave a disconcerting stump of a book that fulfills no conventional expectations. The crime part is straightforward enough: two middle-aged prostitutes have been found strangled in apartments in central Tokyo. But the novel greets these acts with a laconic “So?” and approaches the business of crime-solving with the eye-rolling ennui of a teenager asked to do the washing-up.

The story is told by a nameless narrator, the dowdy older sister of one of the murdered women and a former schoolmate of the other. She patches together an account of all their lives, here and there including extracts from the other women’s letters and journals — at which points the plot gets denser rather than thicker, as Kirino flirts naughtily with the notion of prostitution as feminism. (“My armor during the day was a flowing cape; at night it became Superman’s cape. By day a businesswoman; by night a whore. ... I was capable of using both my brains and my body to make money. Ha!” — a declaration that might have more philosophical heft if the prostitute who makes it weren’t murdered shortly after.) The narrator’s reminiscences promise an explanation that is never really forthcoming, dragging out the pleasurable deferral of the detective story until it chafes. We learn what has happened, and to whom, and what they all thought of one another (not much). But no one ever seems to really get to grips with why.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/books/review/Harrison2.t.html

And from The Japan Times

Do the suffocating pressures of Japanese society produce monsters? Does trying to live by men’s rules drive women crazy? These are two of the questions posed by Natsuo Kirino in her powerful new novel, “Grotesque.”

In her earlier mystery, titled “Out,” now available in an English translation from Kodansha International, Kirino looked at four women leading lives of quiet desperation on the fringes of Japanese society. “Grotesque” (Bungei Shunjuu, 536 pp.), on the other hand, was inspired by a 1997 murder in which the victim was a 39-year-old woman who was a researcher at Tokyo Electric Power Co. by day, and a prostitute by night.

Why would a career woman at an elite firm lead such a double life? Kirino starts exploring possible answers in one microcosm of Japanese society she calls school Q (thought to represent Keio), and the coping mechanisms of four female students there.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/cultur...sque-cuts-too-close-to-the-bone/#.Wp38iuhuZJ8
 
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I thought grotesque was pretty awful. I've since read a bunch of other stuff by the same author, in Japanese (I read grotesque in English) and I just don't understand the appeal at all. All her work is full of unsympathetic characters doing bad things for no good reason.

Currently reading kindred by octavia Butler. Reads a bit like a young adult novel at the start but is getting pretty interesting now.
 
All her work is full of unsympathetic characters doing bad things for no good reason.

Well, what is there not to like then? :p

I thought the name sounded familiar and then I found "Out" in my bookshelf. I think it was a good book, maybe not an excellent one though. Recommended, would not repeat (but would read another book by the same author).

But didn't @Tabanico hit it perfectly even when he didn't like her books? In my mind the idea behind Out was exactly that, why do perfectly mundane and ordinary people do terrible things?
 
OK, I thought this one is already mentioned here so skipped but couldn't find anything with search so here:

I have really liked Keigo HIgashino. I know you are not supposed because he is now famous and therefore it is not hip to like him. But the first one I read was The Devotion of Suspect X and one of his characters is a mathematician so how could I not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devotion_of_Suspect_X
 
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OK, I thought this one is already mentioned here so skipped but couldn't find anything with search so here:

I have really liked Keigo HIgashino. I know you are not supposed because he is now famous and therefore it is not hip to like him. But the first one I read was The Devotion of Suspect X and one of his characters is a mathematician so how could I not?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devotion_of_Suspect_X

Great! It's translated in English, so I'll put it on my list.

I thought grotesque was pretty awful. I've since read a bunch of other stuff by the same author, in Japanese (I read grotesque in English) and I just don't understand the appeal at all. All her work is full of unsympathetic characters doing bad things for no good reason.
Currently reading kindred by octavia Butler. Reads a bit like a young adult novel at the start but is getting pretty interesting now.

Oh well, different strokes and all that.

Grotesque seems apropos to a few local situations. Natsuo Kirino does not script a sympathetic character in the novel, so there's no real hero. Her use of multiple narrators, outside the central one, reinforces this lack of sympathy for all the characters, as opposed to sympathy for one central character.

If you're looking for a simplistic sort of novel with a weak theme, Grotesque might seem "pretty awful." However, if you possess a modernism view of the world or maybe even a post-modernism philosophy, you may enjoy Grotesque.
 
Grotesque is the very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel and it has a very weak theme so yeah definitely different strokes.
 
Grotesque is the very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel and it has a very weak theme so yeah definitely different strokes.

While not The Great Japanese Novel, I don't feel the novel rates your scathing, and thankfully, brief and simplistic review. I suggest you not quit your day job to pursue a career in literary analysis.

So, I decided to do a quick bit of research to determine if your very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel theory is shared by by others, and informed others in particular...

Beneath this story lie deeper questions: of what drives women to prostitution, of the relationship between the individual and society, as well as unexpected philosophical considerations such as an examination of the sense of self, perhaps paradoxically heightened by being trapped in rigid social conformity. Above all, the book is an exploration of the roles of women in such a hot-house world and of the men who rule it. "In order to induce the process of decay, water is necessary. I think that, in the case of women, men are the water," says the ugly sister, leading her own secret life.

This is a rich, complex read. Be prepared for a book utterly unlike anything we are used to in crime fiction: a long, densely-written work that resembles a Russian novel more than anything else. The Hirata sisters are not-too-distant cousins of the Brothers Karamazov.


Jane Jakeman's novel 'In the Kingdom of Mists' is published by Black Swan

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...suo-kirino-trans-rebecca-copeland-435563.html

But emotion does not obey Darwinian rules. It mutates, and monsters are born, people "with something twisted inside, something that grows and grows until it looms all out of proportion." In a society that values conformity, Yuriko's beauty is too perfect, Kazue's cravings for success too obvious. As these young women mature, their excesses exile them from Japanese society -- and they find themselves suddenly free. This is the terrible paradox at the center of Kirino's work: In Japan, to be a monster, a grotesque, can be a kind of liberation. watches the trial of their accused murderer unfold, the narrator's malice turns into a kind of envy of the dead women, who in their sexual freedom flouted the society that rejected them. Grotesque is a powerful indictment of that society, its narrator's spirit "painted with hatred, dyed with bitterness." Kirino's women speak from beneath the lacquered surfaces of traditional Japan, in voices that need to be heard.

-- Janice P. Nimura is a New York-based critic whose reviews have appeared in the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24/AR2007052402748.html

Of course, much of the narrator's contempt for Yuriko, Q High School and everything involving them can be chalked up to the cruelty of the adolescent girl. But the deftness with which Kirino paints the portrait of this particular Dorian Gray is a crystal-clear insight into the mind of a lunatic. Kirino turns an unerring eye toward the vicious razors of the adolescent female mind. And yet how many people hold such a level of malice, so spitefully spun as to become as near a work of art as sculpture or painting? That the narrator remains nameless is no mistake -- her lack of a name augments Kirino's presentation of a covetousness like no other. Such sowers of discord are truly and thankfully rare, but Kirino presents our narrator as an example so terrific as to merit an award for the discovery of a completely new species.

David Cotner San Francisco Chronicle

https://www.sfgate.com/books/article/Jealous-teen-welcomes-sister-s-death-2568754.php

And from regular Joes and Josies

good reads.JPG


amazon.JPG



 
I tried to post in the original thread, but was prevented from doing so by a message that informed me that the thread was too old to add responses.

Just in case some of you are still reading books and would like to share, I am reviving the thread. I would personally prefer novels by Japanese authors or novels involving Japan, but any novel is fine.

I'm not sure where I picked it up, but a few months ago I read a captivating and haunting novel by Natsuo Kirino called Grotesque. Once I started the novel, it stayed with me, even when I was not reading.

View attachment 6990


The New York Times describes the novel better than I could...

“Grotesque” is full of schoolgirls in long socks but blanchingly free of cuteness, a combination we might call Uh-Oh Kitty. Natsuo Kirino started out as a romance novelist before turning to crime fiction, which seems to suit her rather better. She has written 4 story collections and 16 novels, of which this is the second to be translated into English. The first, “Out,” was the cheerful tale of a factory worker who colludes with co-workers to murder her husband; they cut him up and distribute pieces of him around Tokyo. In “Grotesque,” she dismembers the detective novel instead, hacking off suspense, glamour, mystery and horror to leave a disconcerting stump of a book that fulfills no conventional expectations. The crime part is straightforward enough: two middle-aged prostitutes have been found strangled in apartments in central Tokyo. But the novel greets these acts with a laconic “So?” and approaches the business of crime-solving with the eye-rolling ennui of a teenager asked to do the washing-up.

The story is told by a nameless narrator, the dowdy older sister of one of the murdered women and a former schoolmate of the other. She patches together an account of all their lives, here and there including extracts from the other women’s letters and journals — at which points the plot gets denser rather than thicker, as Kirino flirts naughtily with the notion of prostitution as feminism. (“My armor during the day was a flowing cape; at night it became Superman’s cape. By day a businesswoman; by night a whore. ... I was capable of using both my brains and my body to make money. Ha!” — a declaration that might have more philosophical heft if the prostitute who makes it weren’t murdered shortly after.) The narrator’s reminiscences promise an explanation that is never really forthcoming, dragging out the pleasurable deferral of the detective story until it chafes. We learn what has happened, and to whom, and what they all thought of one another (not much). But no one ever seems to really get to grips with why.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/books/review/Harrison2.t.html

And from The Japan Times

Do the suffocating pressures of Japanese society produce monsters? Does trying to live by men’s rules drive women crazy? These are two of the questions posed by Natsuo Kirino in her powerful new novel, “Grotesque.”

In her earlier mystery, titled “Out,” now available in an English translation from Kodansha International, Kirino looked at four women leading lives of quiet desperation on the fringes of Japanese society. “Grotesque” (Bungei Shunjuu, 536 pp.), on the other hand, was inspired by a 1997 murder in which the victim was a 39-year-old woman who was a researcher at Tokyo Electric Power Co. by day, and a prostitute by night.

Why would a career woman at an elite firm lead such a double life? Kirino starts exploring possible answers in one microcosm of Japanese society she calls school Q (thought to represent Keio), and the coping mechanisms of four female students there.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/cultur...sque-cuts-too-close-to-the-bone/#.Wp38iuhuZJ8
This is my favorite book, such a coincidence!

When i read this, for the first time in my life i felt like someone like me existed (Yuriko). Even though its only in a book. This has had such a huge impact on my life. I had a sense that i wanted to be an SW and wanted to live in Japan before reading this, but this really shaped my ideas and plans... (Just beautiful Yuriko though, not the old scary women, although i could relate to the other characters as well to some point).

I'd recommend all books by Kirino Natsuo, she is a great writer.
 
Currently reading (slowly) a book about Chinese economy :sleep:
 
While not The Great Japanese Novel, I don't feel the novel rates your scathing, and thankfully, brief and simplistic review. I suggest you not quit your day job to pursue a career in literary analysis.

So, I decided to do a quick bit of research to determine if your very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel theory is shared by by others, and informed others in particular...

Lol, thanks. Some of my friends and peers actually write the literary reviews in exactly the media outlets that you quote, among others. A good friend gave grotesque a very glowing review in one of them in fact. He also gave one of my books a very glowing review too so maybe don't trust everything you read.
 
Grotesque is the very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel and it has a very weak theme so yeah definitely different strokes.
Whats a weak theme? Sex workers? The world of women?

I do agree that the story is sort of simple, unlike her most famous books Out, which is full of thrill and surprises, the killer is known in Grotesque (and a bit problematic because in the real case this is based on he was most likely not guilty) and the story is more passive. But what i like is the emotional depth of the characters.
The story teller is such a fascinating character precisely because of how unlikable she is but still her struggle as a shadow of her sister earns some sympathy. Then there is Kazue who has been betrayed by her hope and dreams. And of course the person who knows her fate but who accepts it and works with what she has, Yuriko.
Plus the struggles of a gay pimp and a genius turned evil.

I just love every character and their thoughts. I can relate to all of them to some extent. I love this kind of psychological stories. The dark side of the human mind has always attracted me. And not so much in the extreme serial killer sense but more so in the kind of struggles you see with the people in grotesque.
 
Well if anyone likes thrillers, The Whistler written by John Grisham is a good read as well as all of John Grisham's novels.
 
Grotesque is the very embodiment of a simplistic sort of novel and it has a very weak theme so yeah definitely different strokes.
I'd be the first to admit that "killed prostitutes" is a very weak theme. But most books with this theme are about a prude judgemental hothead police detective who tries to solve the case, not about the feelings of the women.

I find Kirino so refined and understanding of people's feelings compared to authors playing with similar themes like Murakami Ryu.
 
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I was thinking about this and came up with The Dirty Havana Trilogy by Pedro Juan Gutierrez. Perfect for the TAG community. Its a collection of short stories set in 1990s Havana. Its about a depraved ex-journalist who is living hand to mouth in central Havana. The Russians have stopped supporting the Cuban economy and the place is in ruins. Everyone is doing whatever they have to to survive. I am not sure how to describe the style. Its raunchy as hell and repulsive in places, but the quality of the writing is extremely good. If you are a fan of Bukowski or Henry Miller you will probably like it. Strangely, it somehow resonated with the gaijin part of me. Havana is certainly not Tokyo, but I can totally relate to all of the sex and boozing and living on the edge. He has a few other books out. Start with DHT though.
 
I'd be the first to admit that "killed prostitutes" is a very weak theme. But most books with this theme are about a prude judgemental hothead police detective who tries to solve the case, not about the feelings of the women.

I find Kirino so refined and understanding of people's feelings compared to authors playing with similar themes like Murakami Ryu.

Just a little clarification.

The murders and the trial are not themes in the literary sense. They are subjects of a theme. What the author means by the use of that subject to convey a deeper Truth about the Human Condition is what determines possible themes of a story.

That's part of the complexity of the novel. There are no heroes. None of the characters really inspire a desire to be like that character. That's one of the reasons I consider Grotesque lies somewhere between modernism and post-modernism, depending on the perspective of the reader. It's also the reason Tabanico may not care for the novel. I'm guessing he prefers a novel that follows the patterns set down in Aristotle's Poetics.

And I'm guessing Alice enjoys Grotesque because her people skills help her find meaning in the novel.
 
Just a little clarification.

The murders and the trial are not themes in the literary sense. They are subjects of a theme. What the author means by the use of that subject to convey a deeper Truth about the Human Condition is what determines possible themes of a story.

That's part of the complexity of the novel. There are no heroes. None of the characters really inspire a desire to be like that character. That's one of the reasons I consider Grotesque lies somewhere between modernism and post-modernism, depending on the perspective of the reader. It's also the reason Tabanico may not care for the novel. I'm guessing he prefers a novel that follows the patterns set down in Aristotle's Poetics.

And I'm guessing Alice enjoys Grotesque because her people skills help her find meaning in the novel.
And the moral of the story is that themes aren't always what they theme to be...
 
And the moral of the story is that themes aren't always what they theme to be...

Haha!

I'm sure you already know this, but for others that may not:

The difference between theme and moral: A moral can be a theme but a theme cannot always be a moral. A moral teaches you something (e.g. slow and steady wins the race).A moral is a message or lesson the author wants to teach. A theme is a device to help convey the author's message. A theme is what the author or the reader feels a general idea (e.g. love, courage) represents about human values in the form of an assertion.

Some people read a book for the story, others for the message, and others for both reasons.
 
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None of the characters really inspire a desire to be like that character.
While that is true (except that i wanna be as popular as young Yuriko or as smart as young Mitsuru), they are very very relatable.
They are the sad truths and negatives that people don't want to admit but they are.

Like how Kazue does not want to admit she is not like the rich and popular kids and that she is a victim of bullying, and later how she ignores that she is neither an addition to the firm or a desirable woman but somehow convinces herself she is both. Grotesque gives a great look into the mind of non perfect people and stimulates us to analyze ourselves, or maybe its just me being a loser, haha!
 
I was thinking about this and came up with The Dirty Havana Trilogy by Pedro Juan Gutierrez. Perfect for the TAG community. Its a collection of short stories set in 1990s Havana. Its about a depraved ex-journalist who is living hand to mouth in central Havana. The Russians have stopped supporting the Cuban economy and the place is in ruins. Everyone is doing whatever they have to to survive. I am not sure how to describe the style. Its raunchy as hell and repulsive in places, but the quality of the writing is extremely good. If you are a fan of Bukowski or Henry Miller you will probably like it. Strangely, it somehow resonated with the gaijin part of me. Havana is certainly not Tokyo, but I can totally relate to all of the sex and boozing and living on the edge. He has a few other books out. Start with DHT though.
This sounds great, ordered it
 
Just finished Ernest Cline’s Ready Player One - If you grew up with things like Ultraman, D&D, Zork, Joust, etc. this is a fun read.

Spielberg’s upcoming film adaptation looks pretty cool as well.:)
 
I just finished Sapiens A Brief History of Humankind. The writer condenses the entire history of mankind into 400 pages. It was an excellent read. I highly recommend it.
 
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It's an old one, but you can still find it on Kindle - Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson. I think most of the folks here would enjoy these tales.
 
Another GROTESQUE fan here. To me, a great book not only pulls you along eagerly through the story but also keeps you thinking while and long after you read it. It is a major winner by those standards imo.

-Ww