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Marriage, a bad idea

Of the three women I've been fortunate to meet, two were through in person nampa and the other was through Japan Cupid. I did have a lot of opportunities to meet others through Japan Cupid, but just not enough time to follow up. I can see how majimekun's strategy might work well on that site. I get a lot of replies or "interest" from women who live in China or other faraway places, so it would be good to filter out some of that and have a better chance of receiving replies from women who match your interests.

Yesterday, I was fatigued. I just wanted to sleep, but the married woman texted that she was nearby and could we meet, so we had a couple of drinks and I told her I was tired and needed to rest. She said she was tired too and she would rest with me. She added "no ecchi" this time. But she detoured into a drug store where, giggling like a embarrassed schoolgirl, she bought some lube. She came back to the apartment with me and we slept for a couple of hours, then she forgot about the "no ecchi" thing and wanted to play for a couple hours. Fortunately, she didn't want to stay the night and I escorted her back to the train station at 10:30 and went to bed early.
 
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Do remember that you can supplement online attempts, with talking to women directly, like at coffee ships, trains, video stores, etc... And even if you use websites, try several of them. Cast a wide net, for greater oppourtunity.
I definitely will. Best believe I am putting your advice into effect. Looking forward to having some fun when I get back from Venezuela.
 
My last three days in Tokyo. The never married woman met me in Ginza last night (2 beers). We started with drinks, then had dinner at one of those stand up places. It was surprisingly good and inexpensive (1 bottle of wine). Then to a small bar where she keeps a bottle (3-4 more drinks). Both of us were sort of drunk. I thought she would return to Chiba but she had brought a change of clothes with her and had planned to come back to Roppongi with me from the start.

Here's the interesting thing: She picked up the tab for everything. She wouldn't let me pay for anything. My guess is she spent 20,000 yen or so. It felt a little strange having someone pay for me.

I think the key to dating Japanese girls is being able to speak Japanese. I'm not sure how anyone who doesn't speak the language could successfully navigate a 2-3 hour (or longer) date. I'm certainly not fluent and there's a lot of slang that goes right over my head but I generally understand what's being said and can usually participate in conversations. All three women I've seen have told me that they've tried dating guys who don't speak Japanese and that it's very difficult. Of the three, two can speak a little bit of English but the married one knows virtually nothing beyond "hello" and "goodbye" and "my name is." I would think that if you don't speak the language, you're better off sticking with P4P.
 
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@sxian

Most Japanese have studied English in high school and college (English is a world business language), while many others since elementary school. English is also a huge advantage for Japanese in their job market.

So, you are talking about many Japanese having 6 or more years of English language study, want to study English for jobs, and not to mention the hundreds of English loan words in Japanese.

Japanese that would have no clue about English whatsoever, often come from the countryside, lack a college education, and/or can be on some ultra-nationalistic bullcrap and don't associate with foreigners anyway.

Many Japanese can speak basic to some English, however they may be shy or have strange complexes about speaking perfectly. A foreigner that doesn't speak Japanese, can easily find Japanese women that do speak English. I would estimate, that in a big city, you can find 25% to 35% (below the age of 35) to have a decent English conversation with. That percentage comes from street experience. This is especially evident when a foreigner learns to speak English SLOWLY. Lots of Japanese will understand them, as a result.

Let us not forget that the ratio of Japanese to foreigners is like 100 to 1. So a foreigner will have plenty of Japanese that they can speak English to. If only 25% of Japanese can hold a basic conversation in English, that's still 25 to 1.

With that typed, hell YEAH foreigners should learn to speak Japanese and it will open up a higher percentage of Japanese you can speak to.

Lastly, you have Japanese that can speak some English and you have foreigners that can speak some Japanese. While each person isn't fluent, combined, they can can have a decent conversation. By knowing some Japanese and them some English, you can likely have conversations with 50% of the Japanese people that you meet.

By the way, I speak Japanese at the JLPT N2 level (also known as business Japanese level). However, I'm conscious of the situation, as I spoke no Japanese whatsoever when I first arrived.

While I think language is very important, I don't think it's the only key to dating Japanese women. I believe that it's understanding Japanese culture and the Japanese version of body language. 50% plus of communication is visual and based on body and facial indicators.

I've seen foreigners (male and female) that speak little to no Japanese, do very well with dating Japanese. And better than those that could speak some Japanese.

Now if you truly speak Japanese fluently, which few foreigners do, that is special in the sense almost any Japanese person is accessible to you. BUT, that is because you have higher odds to meet mutually interested people. A fluent person can talk to 95% to 100% of Japanese in a room, while linguistically challenged people can only speak with 10% to 50% of Japanese in the room.

But, certain people can do more with their lower percentage. Keep in mind, that if you got a certain look (above average looks), social position/money, or are charismatic (not meaning the idiotic jealous foreign woman charisma stereotype) then many Japanese will be attracted to you despite language difficulties. If a Japanese person likes you, they can also suddenly start studying English or ask you to tutor them.
 
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Solong, I take conversation classes at a school here in Tokyo and had a conversation with a teacher there about this subject just today. She explained that while Japanese study English in school, they are taught English by Japanese teachers who are not fluent in English. They mostly focus on learning to read and write English - not how to speak it - so while a large percentage of Japanese people could probably read an email in English, many will have great difficulty actually participating in a conversation. I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school, learning from American teachers, and my Spanish ability was basically zero after those courses. I suspect that's how a lot of Japanese people feel about English.

My experience is somewhat limited, a lot more so than yours, but the married woman literally understands nothing I say in English, so I have to speak exclusively Japanese to her. I tried to teach her to say "will you buy me a beer" and she just couldn't string the words together. (It was sort of cute.)

My Japanese reading level is fairly high (passed JLPT N1 3 years ago) but because I don't live in Japan, I rarely hear the language spoken and my listening and speaking ability lag behind my reading ability.
 
@sxian
Japanese that would have no clue about English whatsoever, often come from the countryside, lack a college education, and/or can be on some ultra-nationalistic bullcrap and don't associate with foreigners anyway..

Sorry Solong, but you're seriously kidding yourself if you really think so.
I've been working in Japan for years and even in the IT field, very few can understand/speak English.
Most of the Japanese I know get miserable TOEIC scores and they are not from the countryside!
Of all the girlfriends I had, only one spoke English, and guess what? She was Korean.
Not a single japanese ex-GF could speak English, and I don't date airheads FYI.

Maybe your environment is the one of an expat, I mean surrounded by girls who want to live abroad or who've already lived abroad.

Personally, I date outside of your pool (your expats friendly zone) and I can assure you that people rarely speak English. Even the smart ones.
 
@majimekun

Many of my girlfriends are not fluent English speakers and I have dated many non-English speaking Japanese women.

I have lived in Japan for years, speak Japanese, and my co-workers are Japanese.

My experience comes from directly talking to Japanese women on the streets and other places.

Where there might be confusion, is fluency versus conversational language ability and which language dominates at the initial conversation.

If one speaks to Japanese women at first in Japanese, then many will respond in just Japanese. If one speaks to them at first in English, many will respond in English.

One trick, that many foreigners learn is to speak English SLOWLY and DISTINCTLY. Many Japanese have heard the English word before, but need more time to recognize and process it. Though they speak none to bad Japanese, many have no problem whatsoever getting Japanese girlfriends from all over Japan. Some foreigners learn this trick, others don't.

It's about percentages, and then efficiency.

If a guy is fluent, he will have access to 95% to 100% of women. However, if his skills with women are low and/or he lacks good looks or money, his scoring percentage can be very low.

If a guy can't speak Japanese at all, he may have access to only 10% to 25% of local women. However, if he has great skills with women and combined with looks and money, he can do as well or even better than some linguistically fluent guy. In fact, that's why some local guys get absurdly jealous.

Language is not the "be all, end all" in terms of dating women. We all are clear that because an American guy is fluent in English, it doesn't mean he will be successful with women. There are the factors of looks, money, personality, charisma, ability to read body language...
 
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Where there might be confusion, is fluency versus conversational language ability and which language dominates at the initial conversation.

One trick, that many American military guys learn (an no, I'm not military), is to speak English slowly and distinctly. Though they speak none to bad Japanese, many have no problem whatsoever getting Japanese girlfriends from all over Japan. Some foreigners learn this trick, others don't...

Well, from my experience, you couldn't have a decent conversation in English with most of the japanese girls.
Maybe it's okay if you just want to have sex with them but a real conversation about any subject is just beyond their ability.
 
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Well, from my experience, you couldn't have a decent conversation in English with most of the japanese girls.
Maybe it's okay if you just want to have sex with them but a real conversation about any subject is just beyond their ability.

We will just have to agree, to disagree on this particular subject. I know what I've seen with my own 2 eyes.

And quality of a conversation is relative. It's not for for anyone to judge what is acceptable between 2 people. There are also plenty of smartphone translation tools and some people find workarounds better than others. Lastly, if a Japanese woman wants a guy or is very interested, don't underestimate their ability to be linguistically adapative or flexible.
 
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Sorry Solong, but you're seriously kidding yourself if you really think so.
I've been working in Japan for years and even in the IT field, very few can understand/speak English.

You might be surprised - I've found out after the fact that several colleagues were completely fluent in English, but chose to hide that fact at the office. I also downplay my Japanese ability when it suits me to do so.
 
@Sudsy

English VS Japanese

Pretending to not speak English, when they can, is a very popular and ridiculously insane game played by many Japanese women.

1. Many Japanese are embarrassed if they can't speak English perfectly.

That is, they can speak English and have YEARS of study, but don't want to make any mistakes.

The foreigner has to then encourage the Japanese person to use their English and tell them NOT TO WORRY about mistakes, as oppose to the situation in other countries, where people are enthusiastic to practice or be taught English (even if they only know a little and make mistakes). This also goes into the Japanese cultural preference for sneakiness.

2. Various Japanese guys and xenophobic groups (to include other Japanese women) can label Japanese women that openly speak English well as "sluts".

This is of course absolutely ridiculous and creates a conflict that makes some Japanese women very double-minded and sneaky about their English ability.

They may practice English for jobs, travel, etc... But are afraid of getting "slut" labels by certain Japanese. So they can be very wary of OTHER Japanese that might be WATCHING them.

Again, the foreigner will at times have to encourage and convince the Japanese woman that it's alright to use her English OR she is in a location where she feels safe to speak English. For example, a language exchange party or club with lots of foreigners.

And certain xenophobic Japanese can give Japanese women the "slut" label, for just associating with foreigners, irregardless of if you are speaking Japanese or English. But magically, no matter how many Japanese guys she talks to or how many foreign women the Japanese guy talks to, it's fine.

3. My pals that talk directly to ladies in the city and who are fluent in Japanese, will still often start conversations in English.

That is, we START conversations in English to guage the language ability, her past interaction with foreigners, and how xenophobic she might be.

Did she live in a foreign country? Was she an exchange student? Does she like to travel? Does she like aspects of foreign culture?

Japanese that live in a bubble world with little to no interaction with foreigners and no interest in the world outside Japan, tend to not be worth investing time in. That is, they can be way too paranoid, get weirdly hysterical, and have excessive negative views of foreign people. Not always, but too often that's the case.

4. Certain Japanese label foreigners that speak Japanese "too well" as "playboys".

This is often from the same sources and ignorant groups that label Japanese women that speak English well as "sluts". Also keep in mind that the theme is to attack foreign male and Japanese female couples. And sadly, foreign females may also join in on such attacks out of jealous and envy.

If a foreign man, outside of the job context, starts a conversation in Japanese there is a negative stereotype attached that he is a playboy with several Japanese girlfriends. This is again, asinine and ridiculous beliefs among ignorant Japanese, but they are annoyingly popular and perpetuated by jealous or anti-foreigner Japanese guys/groups. It's a way to knock down foreign guys, BEHIND THEIR BACKS, who appear to be doing well.

A way to deal and avoid this negative stereotype, is to start conversations off in English, then to add Japanese as necessary to be better understood. You can encourage the Japanese person to practice their English and you can request that they help you practice Japanese. This makes the interaction, especially when you are strangers, "feel" more acceptable and "innocently accidental".

Ways Of Using Both English & Japanese

If her English is truly horrible (and after you gauged her ability for a bit), then you would interject more and more Japanese into the conversation, if you can.

And I'm not joking about the odd Japanese female tendency towards hysteria. I've primarily only encountered this level of "craziness" in Japan. A Japanese woman can have been so much into an isolated bubble and have so many odd conflicting thoughts and fears about foreigners, that speaking to a foreigner or even hugging/touching can send a few into a panic. A foreign man, will need to be conscious of Japanese cultural weirdness, if he wants to be successful with pickup and not be confined to only P4P or job related "meeting parties".

Lots of Japanese want to communicate with people from other countries and cultures, but have massive fears, phobias, and social anxiety. If a foreigner understands this, both English and Japanese can be used. Many will want to practice English, and many will be comfortable using only Japanese, and there will be a lot in the middle.
 
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My last three days in Tokyo. The never married woman met me in Ginza last night (2 beers). We started with drinks, then had dinner at one of those stand up places. It was surprisingly good and inexpensive (1 bottle of wine). Then to a small bar where she keeps a bottle (3-4 more drinks). Both of us were sort of drunk. I thought she would return to Chiba but she had brought a change of clothes with her and had planned to come back to Roppongi with me from the start.

Here's the interesting thing: She picked up the tab for everything. She wouldn't let me pay for anything. My guess is she spent 20,000 yen or so. It felt a little strange having someone pay for me.

I think the key to dating Japanese girls is being able to speak Japanese. I'm not sure how anyone who doesn't speak the language could successfully navigate a 2-3 hour (or longer) date. I'm certainly not fluent and there's a lot of slang that goes right over my head but I generally understand what's being said and can usually participate in conversations. All three women I've seen have told me that they've tried dating guys who don't speak Japanese and that it's very difficult. Of the three, two can speak a little bit of English but the married one knows virtually nothing beyond "hello" and "goodbye" and "my name is." I would think that if you don't speak the language, you're better off sticking with P4P.

Really pleased its going so well for you bro :)

Also good that you are not hung up about age like many of us especially me :oldman: .Also, an excellent sign that the ladies want to speak Japanese with you.

The 43 year old in Chiba tho has got to be struck off the list :bucktooth:

Never realized you was in Tokyo 4 such a short time.

Will be interesting to hear what goes down after this. Good luck :cat:
 
Really pleased its going so well for you bro :)

Also good that you are not hung up about age like many of us especially me :oldman: .Also, an excellent sign that the ladies want to speak Japanese with you.

The 43 year old in Chiba tho has got to be struck off the list :bucktooth:

Never realized you was in Tokyo 4 such a short time.

Will be interesting to hear what goes down after this. Good luck :cat:

My last 3 days were somewhat of a blur. The married woman and I went to Hakone. Of course, it rained from almost the time we got on the train until we returned to Tokyo without pause. The onsen she booked was really nice (and expensive) though, with an in room bath (actually on the patio) so we spent lots of time there together and got to eat some really nice food. Her husband lives in Fukuoka and comes to Tokyo a couple times a month. She thinks he probably has a girlfriend. I asked her if he would be pissed to know she was at an onsen with me and, after thinking about it a minute, she said no. She also admitted that she had another boyfriend on the side who is Japanese, so she's kind of a sneaky one, a bit obsessive, and a bit too childish for someone who I discovered is 48 years old.

We came back on Saturday and I met the 43 year old never married Chiba woman in Roppongi. I was late getting back because the high speed trains were all shut down due to rain, but we met at a restaurant at 5:00, where some friends of hers were meeting for a birthday party. After that, we did karaoke with some of her friends, then two different restaurants and three different clubs before returning to my apartment at 2:30 am or so. She spent the night and stayed with me until I got on the limousine bus back to Narita.

The divorced woman wanted to meet again, but I just didn't have time to see her. My loss.

Next time, I'm going to try to find ONE woman to spend time with. Some guys may be better suited to juggle multiple women, but I found it exhausting. I had trouble keeping track of which stories I had told to which women, how much of my real life I had revealed to each of them, and remembering which stories they had told to me. On top of that, they all drink like fish, which is fine 2-3 times a week, but which takes a toll when you do it 15 days straight. I literally think I drank about a year's worth of booze in the past 2 weeks. The married woman and I met to go to Hakone at 9:30 in the morning and as soon as we got seated on the train, she opened two cans of beer.
 
My last 3 days were somewhat of a blur. The married woman and I went to Hakone. Of course, it rained from almost the time we got on the train until we returned to Tokyo without pause. The onsen she booked was really nice (and expensive) though, with an in room bath (actually on the patio) so we spent lots of time there together and got to eat some really nice food. Her husband lives in Fukuoka and comes to Tokyo a couple times a month. She thinks he probably has a girlfriend. I asked her if he would be pissed to know she was at an onsen with me and, after thinking about it a minute, she said no. She also admitted that she had another boyfriend on the side who is Japanese, so she's kind of a sneaky one, a bit obsessive, and a bit too childish for someone who I discovered is 48 years old.

We came back on Saturday and I met the 43 year old never married Chiba woman in Roppongi. I was late getting back because the high speed trains were all shut down due to rain, but we met at a restaurant at 5:00, where some friends of hers were meeting for a birthday party. After that, we did karaoke with some of her friends, then two different restaurants and three different clubs before returning to my apartment at 2:30 am or so. She spent the night and stayed with me until I got on the limousine bus back to Narita.

The divorced woman wanted to meet again, but I just didn't have time to see her. My loss.

Next time, I'm going to try to find ONE woman to spend time with. Some guys may be better suited to juggle multiple women, but I found it exhausting. I had trouble keeping track of which stories I had told to which women, how much of my real life I had revealed to each of them, and remembering which stories they had told to me. On top of that, they all drink like fish, which is fine 2-3 times a week, but which takes a toll when you do it 15 days straight. I literally think I drank about a year's worth of booze in the past 2 weeks. The married woman and I met to go to Hakone at 9:30 in the morning and as soon as we got seated on the train, she opened two cans of beer.
Damn, sounds like you have it going on.
More credibility supporting your advice.
 
Damn, sounds like you have it going on.
More credibility supporting your advice.

The best advice is not to get overextended. My date with the married woman in Hakone ended on a bad note when I told her I had to go to meet a friend Saturday night. We'd just spent 30 hours together so I figured she would understand. Wrong. She started crying on the train and I had to sit with her for a good half hour on a bench in Shinjuku station calming her down. Then, she gives me this dramatic "sayonara" and walks off saying we can never meet again if I won't spend Saturday night with her. This morning, I get an email from her apologizing for the scene she made and telling me she wanted to come to L.A. to see me and of course she wanted to see me again in Tokyo. Kinda nuts.

Sexually speaking, all three women were remarkably the same, although the married one claimed I was "too big," which I took as false flattery since I've seen enough porn to know that I'm about average. As it turns out, though, she was kind of small, and she brought a tube of lube to our second date and used it every time after. Each of the three women acted very submissive at first, like she didn't want to have sex, then suddenly couldn't restrain herself and started in with the high pitched moaning. If you've ever seen Japanese porn, chances are you've seen this act. Funny story - on Sunday morning while the Chiba woman was doing the high pitched moaning, my foot accidentally hit the remote control and one of those stupid morning shows starts blaring from the TV. She tensed up and said "what the....?" (she actually said "nani...?") in her normal voice and I explained I'd accidentally turned on the TV. I switched it off, resumed what I had been doing, and she went back to the high pitched voice again. None of them were particularly well practiced in the art of giving oral sex. The idea of using a razor to groom below the waist had occurred only to the married one.

I think that ends my story (for now). Sorry to have hijacked the "Marriage" thread with random tales of decadence. Regular programming can now resume. ;-)
 
@sxian

The down side to having only 1 Japanese woman, is she might be PLAYING YOU (by having many other guys on the sneak) or CANCEL dates unexpectedly.

My advice would be to always have backup (a 2nd one), especially in Japan, as many women can be unreliable.

And women, very strangely, seem to have a sixth sense about a guy's popularity with other women.

So, if other women want you, they WANT YOU MORE. But, if you depend on only 1 woman or have no women, THEY WANT YOU LESS. This strange phenomenon has been observed in most female mammals.
 
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I think that ends my story (for now). Sorry to have hijacked the "Marriage" thread with random tales of decadence. Regular programming can now resume. ;-)

Too bad :(
These were really entertaining posts ... thanks for that :)

The MARRIED one making a drama ... isn't she totally crazy? ahaha
 
@sxian

The down side to having only 1 Japanese woman, is she might be PLAYING YOU (by having many other guys on the sneak) or CANCEL dates unexpectedly.

My advice would be to always have backup (a 2nd one), especially in Japan, as many women can be unreliable.

And women, very strangely, seem to have a sixth sense about a guy's popularity with other women.

So, if other women want you, they WANT YOU MORE. But, if you depend on only 1 woman or have no women, THEY WANT YOU LESS. This strange phenomenon has been observed in most female mammals.

Solong, about that "sixth sense," yeah, I think I have to agree. The married woman asked how many girls I had (she used the term "shower asobi" which I had not heard before), and I did my best to try to convince her that while I had many friends, she was the only one I was having sex with. I don't think I did a very good job selling that story.
 
Too bad :(
These were really entertaining posts ... thanks for that :)

The MARRIED one making a drama ... isn't she totally crazy? ahaha

Yeah, it was nuts. She told me I was a liar and called me "zurui," which I found offensive in light of the fact that (1) she has a husband, (2) she has another boyfriend, and (3) she has two kids who live with her and who thought she was in Hakone with "some girls from the office." How's that for zurui? Pot meet kettle. When I told her I was going to meet my friend for dinner on Saturday night, she said "oh, well, if it's just dinner, I'll wait for you in your apartment." When I shot down that idea, she said "that was a test" (tameshi), and I said, "oh, so now you're just playing games."

majimekun, I think you responded to one of my early posts by telling me I sounded like a total newb in dealing with Japanese women. You were right. In fact, I'm probably still a newb, but I know a lot more now than I knew 2 weeks ago. ;-)
 
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One additional note: I don't know if I mentioned that I'm married. 20+ years, although the last few have been somewhat rocky. On the day I returned from Japan, I was exhausted after the 10+ hour flight. I slept for a few hours, then awoke to find my wife in a particularly bad mood. We had a long talk that lasted until 2 am in the morning and at the conclusion of it, I told her I was going to move out. Interestingly, it wasn't a heated or even particularly emotional discussion. We're both unhappy with the status quo, and we both know it. We'll remain married for the immediate future so she can continue receiving the health insurance my company provides. As we've been living in separate bedrooms for 2 years, this wasn't a shock to either of us, simply the next logical step along the road to marital dissolution.
 
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The best advice is not to get overextended. My date with the married woman in Hakone ended on a bad note when I told her I had to go to meet a friend Saturday night. We'd just spent 30 hours together so I figured she would understand. Wrong. She started crying on the train and I had to sit with her for a good half hour on a bench in Shinjuku station calming her down. Then, she gives me this dramatic "sayonara" and walks off saying we can never meet again if I won't spend Saturday night with her. This morning, I get an email from her apologizing for the scene she made and telling me she wanted to come to L.A. to see me and of course she wanted to see me again in Tokyo. Kinda nuts.

Sexually speaking, all three women were remarkably the same, although the married one claimed I was "too big," which I took as false flattery since I've seen enough porn to know that I'm about average. As it turns out, though, she was kind of small, and she brought a tube of lube to our second date and used it every time after. Each of the three women acted very submissive at first, like she didn't want to have sex, then suddenly couldn't restrain herself and started in with the high pitched moaning. If you've ever seen Japanese porn, chances are you've seen this act. Funny story - on Sunday morning while the Chiba woman was doing the high pitched moaning, my foot accidentally hit the remote control and one of those stupid morning shows starts blaring from the TV. She tensed up and said "what the....?" (she actually said "nani...?") in her normal voice and I explained I'd accidentally turned on the TV. I switched it off, resumed what I had been doing, and she went back to the high pitched voice again. None of them were particularly well practiced in the art of giving oral sex. The idea of using a razor to groom below the waist had occurred only to the married one.

I think that ends my story (for now). Sorry to have hijacked the "Marriage" thread with random tales of decadence. Regular programming can now resume. ;-)

Good stuff bro (y)

Not a lot going on this forum otherwise