Speaking to Female Friends about P4P experiences

TheScientist said:
Crappy analogies. None of those actions have any legal or social consequences outside of Sharia law countries on their own. Aint no one gonna cause me trouble getting jobs because of a glass of wine with a steak, etc.
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While some of the things I listed carry only disapproval from some individuals and groups (which can still have significant consequences...I have known very hot women who will not date men who are not vegetarians or who drink or whose politics they don't like), based on my personal experience you are incorrect/naive if you think none of the things I listed can cause you problems getting or keeping jobs, and some of them have legal consequences in places with near zero Islamic influences of any kind on their laws. The best examples from my list are probably gambling and drinking. I specifically know of people who have not been hired and who have been fired for both of those causes. And long ago in what seems like another lifetime, I knew of an employer who would not employ anyone who he felt lived in a way inconsistent with his strong Southern Baptist (fundamentalist Christian) religious beliefs...and these included thinking that dancing and cursing ("taking God's name in vain") were evil. Admittedly this last example is rather extreme and rare...and hopefully even more so now than it once was. However, not all examples are. Try getting a job in Salt Lake City if you have a rep as a "hard drinker", for example...not impossible, but it will make it MUCH harder. And of course much has been said and written about employers who scour social media for info on the personal behaviors of job applicants and regard anything that indicates that the person is not "of good behavior" as a negative in their hiring decisions. So yeah, if you are unwilling to sacrifice any loss of employability for greater personal freedom, you'd better keep secret pretty much any behavior of which any significant number of people disapprove.

Well since it's Japan and since the dime store is a thing of the past, lets call it 100 Yen Shop psychology. But regardless of the name I am clearly saying you are engaging in bullshit analysis of other peoples thought systems.
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You are right that I cannot know for sure about what is anyone else's heart or mind, and note that in my previous posts I did not assert my suspicion as fact or universal truth applying to all mongers who completely hide their p4p activities. Rather I called it a "hunch" and said that I "wondered" if it might be true that they consciously or unconsciously feel that p4p is wrong or shameful. If you'd like me to make a more definite statement, I'd say that I'm confident that I am write about some such guys and wrong about others. I do know that some mongers (including some on TAG) state that they are ashamed of their mongering, think it is wrong, and are trying to quit. I don't think it is a big leap to associate such beliefs with a desire to hide their participation in commercial sex.

Thats as bad as the cancel culture woke accusations.
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I don't even understand what that is!?

-Ww
 
Keihan Chikan said:
You're making very lucid and valid points but I think the issue is that you're on TAG, of all places, and indirectly accusing folks here of "buying into the stigmatization of commercial sex." Your beef really isn't with the kind of guy (or girl) who signs up on TAG to engage in P4P discussions; it's with the rest of society that ISN'T signed up here.
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Largely correct.

You're very idealistic, and that's a good thing. In an ideal world, people would be free to discuss engaging in safe and legal pastimes. Consenting adults would be able to enter into legal contractual agreements where an agreed-upon service was provided for an agreed-upon fee that satisfied both parties. I could've been the poster-boy for free market capitalist libertarianism.
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Nothing I'd dispute here except to note that people who know me rarely call me impractical or "very idealistic", but perhaps you could say that about my position in this discussion.

Unfortunately, this free market capitalist libertarian also works in an industry where idealism has to take a permanent backseat to realism, and the reality of the situation is that a very large segment of society does not approve of engaging in commercialized sexual activity. It can hurt your reputation, your livelihood and future prospects in most every aspect of your life. I can't go into specifics but I'm basically a walking safeguard for important people. I work behind the scenes in messaging, public relations and, most importantly, damage control for people who have a whole hell of a lot to lose if they end up on the news along with a nasty headline. And what I've learned in over a decade in this business is you NEVER take risks. Ever.
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Emphasis added.

This may be good advice for how to keep your life simple and trouble/drama free and to maximize your reputation among most people, but imo it is VERY BAD advice for how to live a fully satisfying and enjoyable life. And, if that is your advice, presumably you think that no one should indulge in p4p at all since doing so definitely carries risks of scandal and worse no matter how hard ones tries to keep it a total secret.

My job is to predict what some asshole might do after a few drinks and a successful fundraiser and 1) stop him from doing it, or 2) if it happens, make like it never happened, and then 3) if it makes the news, blame it on someone else or spin it into a wild conspiracy theory. And believe me, the biggest reasons I get phone calls at 2am and then enjoy two or three sleepless days is because the asshole I was supposed to be watching either got an intern drunk and took her home or paid for sex and got caught.
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Unusual/interesting sounding job, but do you think having your particular job and thus being so frequently in contact with people who have to keep a particularly sanitized public reputation may have distorted your view of the whole issue? Lots of infectious disease doctors are germaphobes, you know.

I'll go back to it: NEED TO KNOW BASIS. I know it may have a cathartic or therapeutic effect to spill your beans about P4P and then climb up on that cross, but if you're a guy who values a paycheck, financial security and a healthy relationship with friends, relatives and colleagues, it's always best to keep your mouth shut.
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If you said "always safest" I might agree, but I disagree with "always best" because there are major upsides to being less than totally secretive that you are not considering, and I don't mean just the cathartic and therapeutic ones, as per several of the posts above in this thread (including one of mine). For one, living without the constant fear of "getting caught" is good for one's quality of life and physical health...actually that's two, not one, ways in which it is better.

-Ww
 
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