Are non Japanese speaking Chinese Americans considered foreigners?

I’m going to go out on a limb but I think non born in Japan non Japanese blood is generally considered foreigners.
I might be wrong though.

TAG Manager said:

As a note for anyone reading this later - Having command of some basic Japanese (time, date, cost, length, location, numbers, options and other key terminology in this business), being polite and honest, will open doors more easily.

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+1

the frustrating thing about Japanese language is that some of the things mentioned above are actually quite difficult.

LeagueofLegends said:

I just want to confirm something for the businesses that do not accept foreigners does that include non Japanese speaking Asian too?

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I don't know what makes you think any business, much less a P4P business, would be thrilled to deal with tourist customers who lack even a basic, elementary grasp of the language of the country they've decided to visit. Of course, you could learn how to scream "I'M CHINESE!!" and then they could hate you twice as much before removing you from the premises.

On that note, if you're still planning on visiting whenever the Japanese government gets desperate enough to let you in, you'll likely find it extremely helpful to have Chinese language skills as Chinese massage girls are likely the only thing you'll be humping during your trip. As far as I know, there's no "League of Legends" in Japan's P4P joints but if such a league is ever formed I think it's a pretty safe bet you won't be in it.

As Manager said it's all over the place. Some places will let you in if you speak fluent Japanese despite the colour of your skin, some places require you to be born and raised in Japan by Japanese parents to let you in.

I have chatted with plenty of door guys in my three decades of mongering in Japan and sometimes I have been told to get citizenship to get in. Sometimes I have been allowed to enter after talking for half an hour and sharing my disgust of the uneducated Americans who try to enter without any knowledge of the rules and customs.

The rule is if someone doesn't want your money there is always someone else that wants it.

Maybe getting in some (subconscious?) revenge for Unit 731 etc.?

Jimi the Strange said:

Maybe getting in some (subconscious?) revenge for Unit 731 etc.?

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Nah, even Chinese girls hate (tourist) Chinese customers. A couple of my regulars are Chinese, and they've been loving life under covid with the tourist brigades gone, even though they make a little less.

I've spoken with quite a few ladies about various foreigners. Almost universally, they don't like Mainland Chinese because as you said, they can be rough with them, so if you're Chinese you have that strike against you before starting. Totally generalizing but that is the way things are. Asian-Indian and Asian-American/European are generally better than Mainland Chinese who are characterized as the worst. The major issue they say about whites is their size and smell so you need to go in with good hygiene and yes, you need to wash your armpits and use deodorant if you are fragrant because it offends most Japanese ladies. What may be considered sexy masculine scent back home will usually induce gag reflex in Japan so just be aware that your manly scent is not considered sexy here. This is all anecdotal and what ladies have told me. Be self-aware and try to be considerate. These ladies are not your sex slave and treat them with respect, honor and grace and they may return the favor. They are doing a relatively unpleasant job for relatively good pay which is the tradeoff. Once you establish a good working relationship it is like money in the bank. Also, don't get stuck to any particular lady. They often retire from this industry quickly and quietly which can leave us sad and heart-broken. Cherish them and when they disappear back to obscurity consider it a blessing for them.

Hello there,

It will always be sort of a Russian roulette.

It means that places that usually do not accept foreigners won't accept you even if you are from Asian decent. Most of the time (just like us), they'll be able to tell that you're not Japanese. Let alone the fact that you don't speak the language.

As said many times their biggest worry is that you actually don't understand the rules. It's especially true in Sexy Kyaba/Oppai Pub, Pinsaro or Onakura. Even Japanese men that supposedly speak the language try to go a bit too far sometimes (according to several girls I've spoken to).

And then you've got places that used do accept us and then all of the sudden don't, then do again, then don't, they do again...

Don't worry as said above, someone else will be happy to take your money. Just respect the guy's decision, it's usually on top of that, said nicely (well usually...)

Happy and safe mongering!

MikeH said:

As Manager said it's all over the place. Some places will let you in if you speak fluent Japanese despite the colour of your skin, some places require you to be born and raised in Japan by Japanese parents to let you in.

I have chatted with plenty of door guys in my three decades of mongering in Japan and sometimes I have been told to get citizenship to get in. Sometimes I have been allowed to enter after talking for half an hour and sharing my disgust of the uneducated Americans who try to enter without any knowledge of the rules and customs.

The rule is if someone doesn't want your money there is always someone else that wants it.

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Yeah, I think there are no fixed rules at all. Some places are more open, others are super strict......and even within a shop it can vary that one employee is welcoming the other rejects you immediately. Other point that needs to be mentioned is that your level of Japenese is probably also often not the deciding factor. They won't do a JLPT test at the front desk ...I would guess that a foreigner with mediocre Japanese that is well dresses has still better changes than a foreigner that is fluent and shows up half drunk/sloppy.

Danbo said:

Yeah, I think there are no fixed rules at all. Some places are more open, others are super strict......and even within a shop it can vary that one employee is welcoming the other rejects you immediately. Other point that needs to be mentioned is that your level of Japenese is probably also often not the deciding factor. They won't do a JLPT test at the front desk ...I would guess that a foreigner with mediocre Japanese that is well dresses has still better changes than a foreigner that is fluent and shows up half drunk/sloppy.

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Manner and body language is also important. I was at a soap in Tokyo (not in Yoshiwara and I won't name it here) and tried and was turned down. I knew I was going to be turned down because their website stated as such but I wanted to try because I'd walked by a hundred times but never bothered to inquire. The tencho was very apologetic and respectful in turning me down. I had practiced what I was going to say with a friend and apologized politely, almost matter of factly as native Japanese do, bowed slightly deeper than normal but not in a condescending way, backed up and excused myself for bothering them as I walked away. My Japanese friend went through the routine with me on how to present, what tone of voice to use, etc. I had rehearsed it with him about 20 times before I got it just right. As I walked out they went out on the sidewalk and called me back. Saving face, they said one of the ladies was overhearing the conversation as she was checking out with another customer and mentioned to the tencho that she would be OK with me because I seemed to know Japanese behavioral norms and looked reasonable, etc. I managed to visit her at least five times later over the period via appointment (she gave me her keitai number and I would text her to make an appt.) of a few years until she retired. The tencho told me while they have a strict policy of no foreigners they made an exception for me because they knew I wasn't going to cause any problem but for the most part the ladies work there with the knowledge of the policy which has not changed and it would be too much hassle to change the policy because the ladies are used to it. It was kind of unwritten that once she retired I was persona non grata again because that is what the ladies expect. I stopped by once to thank the tencho for allowing me to be serviced and never hinted on finding another lady there. He was polite and professional and thanked me and I was on my way.

LeagueofLegends said:

I just want to confirm something for the businesses that do not accept foreigners does that include non Japanese speaking Asian too?

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It depends on the store. Some are flexible, others are very strict.

I’ve been asked my nationality before but never my race. Then again I always use deriheru so I never meet any staff in person. Always over the phone. My experience with deriheru is that a girl not ok with a foreigner (who can communicate in Japanese anyway) is the exception rather than the rule.

Everyone's busy hating on Chinese but I suppose things can work both ways. Some years back after a night of hard drinking and screwing around in downtown Osaka, I got back to the JR station and was drunk and exhausted enough that it seemed like a good idea to wander into a massage shop to ask them to massage my thighs and ass. Found your run-of-the-mill looking shady neon sign with a 6k special package and caught the elevator upstairs. The second the doors opened that stench of Chinatown incense hit my nostrils like a rickshaw full of opium so I knew what I was walking into. Got buzzed into the shop and it was your average shithole reception area festooned in Chinese decoration and the young guy sitting at the counter, I swear, could've been on the label of a Tsingtao Beer bottle. Real Fu-Manchu looking prick.

Anyhow, like I said, I'd been hitting the drinks hard that night I suppose I appeared intoxicated. Probably worse than that, because homeboy Fu-Manchu had this look of concern on his face, bordering on disgust, and in his shitty Japanese actually started trying to get me to leave the shop. Now, I was in my work clothes so I obviously wasn't getting booted because he thought I was a foreigner. I start firing back in my almost-as-shitty Japanese (which he didn't notice, obviously) that I just want a leg massage, he continues directing me out of the shop. Then, in a flash of brilliance, I decide to ask: "ARE YOU CHINESE?"

He nods, suspiciously. I launch into this incoherent tirade about how glad I am that he's Chinese because I'm "Asian American" and I hate Japanese people, they're all stupid, I prefer Chinese businesses etc. I think I might've actually switched to English and told him we were brothers and tried to shake his hand (like I said, I was fucking drunk). Anyhow, this seems to hit all the right zither notes cuz Fu-Manchu takes my 6k and escorts me into a room and then a few moments later shoves this scared young thing through the door just as I'm done taking off my trousers. She could've easily been underage and obviously didn't want to be there, so imagine her surprise when I tell her that I was serious--I want my thighs and ass massaged. And for a good thirty minutes, that's exactly what she did. Or attempted to do. As drunk and sore as I was, it actually felt great.

After she was done, the poor thing just sat there looking scared. I asked her what we were supposed to do next, and she timidly replies something along the lines of "whatever you want." It dawns on me that she expects me to try for the deluxe package and she hadn't even asked me for more money. So I put my hand on her thigh and asked, "ANYTHING I WANT?" She nods, looking sad. I pride myself on being a fucking asshole but I actually felt bad for the kid. I put my pants on, tell her she's pretty, give her an extra 1-man and walk out feeling awesome and magnanimous. Thanked Fu-Manchu, reaffirmed my hatred for Japanese and promised I'd be back again. I was still on my high when I got home, feeling like the yellow Oskar Schindler, so I had a few nightcaps and rubbed one out to end the night on a high note.

But a for the shop, not sure what you'd call this. Reverse racism? Reverse double racism, maybe?

TAG Manager said:

Nobody is hating on Chinese. Certain groups from every race and origin tend to ruin other chances from those who don't pose such a problem.
It just so happens that mainland Chinese tourists have one of the worst reputations both in Japan and other countries.

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My apologies if that came off as accusatory, as that certainly wasn't my intention. That was more of a prelude/preamble to absolve myself of any guilt or accountability for saying offensive things about Chinese tourists, which is a beloved pastime of mine that's very therapeutic. But no worries, I'll limit my anti-Chinese rants to the review section of Booking.com, where I garner a surprising amount of "likes" and somehow still haven't been banned yet. I'm probably just a good customer.

TAG Manager said:

How many years are we talking about here?

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This was toward my later years in Osaka, so somewhere around 2008? Before Chinese tourism turned Minami Ward--and everywhere else in Japan--into the Wuhan wet market. That particular experience was near Kyobashi Station, which is why I've always been an advocate here for straying off the beaten path and usual neighborhoods when hunting for action in Osaka (if you absolutely have to go to Osaka, that is), and Kyobashi was always my favorite place to seek out random, bizarre life moments that ended with your pants down and in a neighborhood safer and cleaner than Abeno/Tennoji.

I'm just hoping that whenever I'm allowed to visit Japan again, it's at least a couple of weeks before Chinese tourists are allowed to return so I can have one last taste of vacation bliss.

Keihan said:

My apologies if that came off as accusatory, as that certainly wasn't my intention. That was more of a prelude/preamble to absolve myself of any guilt or accountability for saying offensive things about Chinese tourists, which is a beloved pastime of mine that's very therapeutic. But no worries, I'll limit my anti-Chinese rants to the review section of Booking.com, where I garner a surprising amount of "likes" and somehow still haven't been banned yet. I'm probably just a good customer.



This was toward my later years in Osaka, so somewhere around 2008? Before Chinese tourism turned Minami Ward--and everywhere else in Japan--into the Wuhan wet market. That particular experience was near Kyobashi Station, which is why I've always been an advocate here for straying off the beaten path and usual neighborhoods when hunting for action in Osaka (if you absolutely have to go to Osaka, that is), and Kyobashi was always my favorite place to seek out random, bizarre life moments that ended with your pants down and in a neighborhood safer and cleaner than Abeno/Tennoji.

I'm just hoping that whenever I'm allowed to visit Japan again, it's at least a couple of weeks before Chinese tourists are allowed to return so I can have one last taste of vacation bliss.

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I used to spend quite a bit of time in Kyobashi because the client I visited was there in the Twin 21. I never thought it was anything but a middle-class entertainment district but this was back in the late 80s and early 90s at the end of the Bubble. Granted, it is not Tennoji but it is not up to the tourist-friend areas between Umeda and Namba on the Midosuji line, either. I'm not a Kansai-guy so I don't know the area that well but I did spend a lot of time in Kyobashi and felt it was not that great for good hotel health which is what I frequent.