Japanese Women Turned Her Back To Me While I Walked Passed Her?

R.O.B said:

Solong, my point in comparison was mainly about the sometimes 'charged' words we sometimes use to describe other cultures and behaviours. If we objectively pick apart a description like 'sneaky', which in English has negative connotations, we might use descriptions such as 'understated', 'ambiguous', and certain descriptions of non-verbal behaviour (re paralanguage, oculesics, kinesics, proxemics etc.) which are more fitting.
An apologist is just as bad as the 'my way or the highway-ist' and we will all slide somewhere along the continuum between those extremes. Hopefully.

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I understand what you mean about words with negative connotations, however after being here for years and observing certain behaviors, my personal opinion is that "sly" and "sneaky" very much applies.

Because it is being clever, tricking, or purposely doing something negative to another person in a disguised or deceptive way, and/or hiding or lying about the negative thing or behavior done. And, when I discuss such behaviors with bilingual Japanese, they use the same words or we can think of no other way to describe such actions in English.

I didn't see there is anything wrong with the woman, what's the appropriate behaviors you expected from a stranger? Always smile and look into your eyes affectionately? And you flipped her off... everyone is confused, who do you think you are?

TokyoJoeblow said:

Unfortunately, in my case...the woman didn't look crazy or borderline homeless. Mine was a young woman that looked like she was in her mid 20's and she was kind of cute (nothing special). I think in my case, she was just a self-important or really insecure person.

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They often don`t look crazy, but are.

Who are you referring to, BJ?

Solong said:

And, when I discuss such behaviors with bilingual Japanese, they use the same words or we can think of no other way to describe such actions in English.

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Ever thought your bilingual Japanese associates are telling you what they think you want to hear?

just4fun said:

............but not his voice so much.

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Even that...brings back so many good memories, strange though he sounds.

-Ww

John Chavers said:

Ever thought your bilingual Japanese associates are telling you what they think you want to hear?

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I wish to hell they wouldn't do that (my bilingual Japanese associates I mean, not @Solong's), but they always do and will...an instinct buried deep in J culture.

-Ww

@Solong will happily go along with Japanese cultural differences if it fits his narrative.

Wwanderer said:

I wish to hell they wouldn't do that (my bilingual Japanese associates I mean, not @Solong's), but they always do and will...an instinct buried deep in J culture.

-Ww

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Depends on what level that you are friends, and the nature of the relationship.

1) Work "friends"/Associates

Expect maximum tatemae and them saying whatever you want to hear or sounds good.

2) Close/True Friends- Do You Know Secrets About Each Other?

The litmus test is whether you know any secrets about each other. The more shocking the secrets you know, the more likely you are to be "true" friends.

If you know them a long time, but don't know any truly juicy secrets about them, they may NOT truly be your friend.

I've seen this odd divide, even among Japanese who claim college or work associates as friends. And situations came up were those people were truly NOT their friends, because they knew nothing deep about them and their actions. Just superficiality and superficial relationships.

3) True Friends- Have They Proven Themselves?

You know a true friend when the chips are down and you need them, and they help or prove their reliability. Bullshiters tend to turn their back or talk a good game, but are no where to be found when needed.

In a proven friend, you can count more on what they say is true or at least true from their perspective and their honest opinion.

4) Girlfriends/Boyfriends

Here, it's about having or having no reason to lie to you. In some situations they might be afraid to hurt your feelings, where in other situations they know it's fine to say the truth or their real opinions. The quality of your relationship can rest on how honest you are with each other.

5) No Reason To Lie Outsider

Even if a person doesn't know you, they might give an honest opinion, as they have no reason to lie and nothing to lose.

This is an outsider perspective, where there is no fear of consequences or follow up, as they are outside of your circles.

However, the more that they can be identified and the more worried about consequences for what they say, the less honest or more politically correct that you can expect them to be.

In my limited experience there's no malice behind a Japanese (bilingual or otherwise) friend affirming your position in a conversation. A lie of omission quickly followed by a shift in conversation.

A roaring debate over beers among friends would be a wonderful thing, but I've learned to live without it.

John Chavers said:

Ever thought your bilingual Japanese associates are telling you what they think you want to hear?

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I want to like this more than once.......

Wwanderer said:

Even that...brings back so many good memories, strange though he sounds.

-Ww

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I'd prefer to hear "classy" Freddie Blassie sing instead.

Time to go home, where everyone understands you and you understand everyone, TokyoJoeblow. Short of finding and loading surveillance camera video of what happened we can only 'visualize' it based on your descriptions. Based on those, other comments you make and your subsequent actions - you are not a happy camper.

I'm referring to your behaviour that in my opinion (and a reasonably informed one on this topic - no details, sorry) shows you are in fairly deep culture shock. My 'go home' comment was more a throwaway line. So stay here, but consider if your behaviour is normal and acceptable.

TokyoJoeblow said:

Maybe you didn't understand clearly. I flipped her off AFTER she was rude to me not before. I walked passed her and she intentionally turned her back to me. I'm sorry, but regardless of any mental problem she has...that is rude in my book. I don't expect all strangers to smile or look deeply into my eyes. That is a load is crap. I just expect people to act normal around me. Doing random 360 spins as I walk by is not normal. That is batshit crazy and rude. I find it funny that Japanese people are known for their politeness, yet when they are around foreigners all that goes out the windows I guess. They only seem polite to other Japanese or they are so uncomfortable around foreigners that they betray their own mannerisms and their insecurities cause them to do rude things. Yes, you could say that me flipping her off was insecure, but it was just shock followed by anger that someone would do that to another person.

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What many foreigners fail to realize is Japanese "politeness" is usually about MONEY, their job, or where they feel they must be. It's often a FAKE politness, based arguably on work related professionalism or traditionalism.

The Japanese people are not inherently or genetically "polite" in any way whatsoever. Thus they are as capable of asshole-ish behavior as any other nationality or group.

In situations where various Japanese believe they don't have to be polite, they can be extremely rude. And in fact, can instigate or be rude first, based on their personality or prejudices.

TokyoJoeblow said:

I love how the answer is always "go home/go back to where you belong". Women have done this same thing to me in the US. This isn't a Japan/US culture clash...this is just unusual female behavior. It was just more annoying when the Japanese woman did it because I thought Japanese were more polite in general. I'm starting to not believe Japanese are anymore polite than people of other cultures.

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I think it's should be up to you, to stay or leave. Telling people to go home, whenever there is an issue, isn't really a solution.

While I'm sympathetic to you realizing that Japan can be VERY different from the image or fake image it's often portrayed as, you should always reflect on your actions as well.

"Eye for an eye, can leave us all blind."

Sometimes the best way is to use tact and be mindful of alternatives in a situation.

What is there to be gained by your actions? What outcome do you want? How can you make things better?

Every culture has a system of politeness. They must. Politeness is the oil that makes the social machine work smoothly. Different culture have different grades, purposes, amounts and ways of applying it and to what. Just because you don't know how to use it correctly doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is 'fake'. Even 'fake' politeness is politeness. So in a cultural sense when someones says, "Oils ain't oils, Sol.", that someone will slip up somewhere along the line.

Good first step, TokyoJoeblow, and I mean that.