Closed Fake Provider Reviews

MossBoss · Apr 2, 2016

In the past fake provider reports have appeared on TAG. These reports damage the usefulness of monger orientated websites.

My suggestion to reduce the possibility of such reports is to only allow newbies the option of posting reports when they have made say 10 posts in other discussion threads.

At present if anyone wanted to post a fake report all they need to do is use a PC not connected to their regular TAG and write how amazeballs she is.

Fake reports might persuade mongers to overpay for poor service which damages the reputation of TAG. In addition, genuine providers might lose clients to the less scrupulous providers.

If anyone has a better idea....

User#16452 · Apr 2, 2016

This is something I feel quite strongly about. I have suggested before that TAG implement some sort of reviewer "verification" but it is yet to come to fruition.

Alas, I have known posters on this board to have their romantic partners write overly favourable reviews for them or to offer discounts or extra time for a good reviews. I have also heard of reviewers themselves asking for discounts in return for a good review.

To me, this does not make sense. While I like to joke that "I aim to please", it is true: I do want my partner to have the best experience possible for them, even if it means seeing someone else. The idea of someone having one free night in Tokyo (perhaps their only opportunity to visit in their lifetime) and choosing to see me, only to feel mislead or disappointed, haunts me.

I like to consider myself a realist: I know it is impossible for me be every man's ideal woman, much as I might try. For those who do wish to date someone similar to myself, I hope not to disappoint. By continuing to allow fake reviews to be posted, TAG throws a shadow of doubt over all reviews posted on this site and increases the chances of disappointment.

MossBoss · Apr 2, 2016

User#16452 makes a number of good points.

One of the most important part of a review is the reviewer's history. If the number of posts made by the reviewer could be prominently displayed that would be useful information to establish the credibility of the writer.

Anna Summer · Apr 2, 2016

I strongly agree with User#16452. But it seems difficult to provide some verification for review writers if they are getting a new account to write about a great experience with a provider.

And I also think that it should not be allowed for an escort to review another escort even tho they had an double appointment. The guy can always register an account, contribute to the forum if time allows and then write the review. I know many gents don't have the time to do so and its totally understandable if they are traveling on business. I can imagine it takes some time to write everything

TAG Manager · Apr 2, 2016

If you suspect a review is fake, report it and we'll look into it.

- We discourage providers from asking for reviews to be written.
- We make considerable efforts to block those obvious cases. (When we can establish a degree of separation; which allows us to believe a review is genuine.)
- Reviewer Verification: Other than the current checks we have in place (which are not public) how do you suggest we go about this? (please consider man power and we still have zero revenue)

We had one case of a provider reviewing another and as we had not had that experience before, we let it go but posted a 'going forward' note on that review.

If we set a post count requirement, I'm not sure what kind of impact it will have on newer people joining and trying to contribute. There are plenty of people here who have joined up, spent awhile reading, seen a provider and posted a review that's completely legitimate.

MossBoss · Apr 2, 2016

Anna Summer said:
I strongly agree with User#16452. But it seems difficult to provide some verification for review writers if they are getting a new account to write about a great experience with a provider.

Great point again. There are probably a number of posters falling in that catogory. It is a Catch 22 situation...

User#16452 · Apr 2, 2016

TAG Manager said:
If you suspect a review is fake, report it and we'll look into it.

- We discourage providers from asking for reviews to be written.

I disagree with this. If I did not ask kindly at the end of dates, many might not consider writing a review. I do agree that anything more than this should be discouraged.

TAG Manager said:
- We make considerable efforts to block those obvious cases. (When we can establish a degree of separation; which allows us to believe a review is genuine.)

Here (see comments) an escort and a reviewer were found to be using the same computer, yet the reviewer was allowed to post a very favourable review of the escort in question.

TAG Manager said:
We had one case of a provider reviewing another and as we had not had that experience before, we let it go but posted a 'going forward' note on that review.

This is actually the second case, the first of which was done with the co-operation of TAG.

(Please note: I have made a point to only include posters who are no longer active on TAG. I do not wish this to become a witch hunt).

TAG Manager · Apr 2, 2016

Yes, I remember that case with Kitty. We talked to the parties involved and let it go, I did kind of forget about it...

The guy was a client and they first used the same computer not understanding the rules. The decision was made to let the review go since he was an actual client and had seen the provider in question.

(also, please refrain from using 'www' with the site address, we're trying to phase this out.)

TAG Manager · Apr 2, 2016

User#16452 said:
I disagree with this. If I did not ask kindly at the end of dates, many might not consider writing review. I do agree that anything more than this should be discouraged.

I did say discourage, not flat out 'no'. --- It's going to happen no matter what we do whether it's someone with 5 or 100 posts.

User#8628 · Apr 2, 2016

Reviews of escorts who use this site are pretty flawed anyway. I think many guys hold their tongue because they don't want to insult us.

I don't push for reviews from guys who are not well known on TAG, especially travelers who signed up not long ago. I mostly value my reviews from famous posters.

NormalGuy · Apr 2, 2016

I think whatever steps you put in place, people will try and bypass them if they feel the benefit outweighs the risk. It will also add quite an admin overhead if what you put in place isn't automated in some way.

If you put a post limit on, people will just create a fake account ahead of time and post crap in the required number of threads to get them over the threshold.

It's difficult, but my initial reaction was:
1. All reviews go into a "pre-approved" queue before being published.
2. Any suspicious reviews are mailed to the escort (if she's a TAG member) and asked for her to verify. None TAG members, the suspicious review is automatically removed.
3. If the escort approves the review, and it turns out to be fake, then ban the escort, remove all positive reviews of her and change the shill review into a warning post. This would work for TAG account holders only.

I think Step 2 is needed, to avoid escorts posting reviews of other escorts in the hope of getting them banned, it also let's admin confirm that the escort is in on the act.

I don't think there are that many reviews posted for this to be a massive overhead, but it may warrant an additional person who can do the approving (any rejections they raised are passed to board admins)

I generally ignore any post from users without a post history, I also ignore all the reviews on escorts with a history of posting reviews of herself, I also never rush out and book an escort based solely on a new review on TAG anyway. I check the board often enough to be able to spot an obvious new member, and suspicious review, but it's the lurkers, or new joiners that are going to generally be caught in these scams and I think we need to keep them by keeping the information valid.

It a bit crap precautions have to be thought about, as all the women I've met from here have been lovely, but I think keeping the bad apples around will start to cast doubt on all reviews if they get away with it.

User#8628 · Apr 2, 2016

NormalGuy said:
I think whatever steps you put in place, people will try and bypass them if they feel the benefit outweighs the risk. It will also add quite an admin overhead if what you put in place isn't automated in some way.

If you put a post limit on, people will just create a fake account ahead of time and post crap in the required number of threads to get them over the threshold.

It's difficult, but my initial reaction was:
1. All reviews go into a "pre-approved" queue before being published.
2. Any suspicious reviews are mailed to the escort (if she's a TAG member) and asked for her to verify. None TAG members, the suspicious review is automatically removed.
3. If the escort approves the review, and it turns out to be fake, then ban the escort, remove all positive reviews of her and change the shill review into a warning post. This would work for TAG account holders only.

I think Step 2 is needed, to avoid escorts posting reviews of other escorts in the hope of getting them banned, it also let's admin confirm that the escort is in on the act.

I don't think there are that many reviews posted for this to be a massive overhead, but it may warrant an additional person who can do the approving (any rejections they raised are passed to board admins)

I generally ignore any post from users without a post history, I also ignore all the reviews on escorts with a history of posting reviews of herself, I also never rush out and book an escort based solely on a new review on TAG anyway. I check the board often enough to be able to spot an obvious new member, and suspicious review, but it's the lurkers, or new joiners that are going to generally be caught in these scams and I think we need to keep them by keeping the information valid.

It a bit crap precautions have to be thought about, as all the women I've met from here have been lovely, but I think keeping the bad apples around will start to cast doubt on all reviews if they get away with it.

I think 1 is a good idea.

And yes, not only escorts but also Universe Club or other groups promoting themselves and hangouts like the KeysClub adverticing themself (i know they did it transparant and honest but i think its owned by/a hangout of the nigerians in shinjuku so i'm not sure if its very safe to hang out) should be managed.

I agree with NormalGuy's number 1 (queue reviews before posting them in public).

kitsune · Apr 2, 2016

MossBoss said:
My suggestion to reduce the possibility of such reports is to only allow newbies the option of posting reports when they have made say 10 posts in other discussion threads.

I never would have posted my first review if this was the requirement. I'm just one guy, but that's me.

TAG already includes the poster's message count, so there is some indication of whether the post is a one-off.

Hobbyers (is that a word?) should look at the history of a poster, and never take a review in isolation. I would never rely on the review of just one person.

just4fun · Apr 2, 2016

kitsune said:
I never would have posted my first review if this was the requirement. I'm just one guy, but that's me.

TAG already includes the poster's message count, so there is some indication of whether the post is a one-off.

Hobbyers (is that a word?) should look at the history of a poster, and never take a review in isolation. I would never rely on the review of just one person.

Excellent response......my feeling exactly......

Wwanderer · Apr 3, 2016

MossBoss said:
If the number of posts made by the reviewer could be prominently displayed that would be useful information to establish the credibility of the writer.

Do you mean something different from the total number of TAG posts the reviewer has made, which is given just below avatar of the person making each post? (It is slightly confusinglyly labeled "Messages", rather than "Posts".)

-Ww

Wwanderer · Apr 3, 2016

User#8628 said:
Reviews of escorts who use this site are pretty flawed anyway. I think many guys hold their tongue because they don't want to insult us.

Absolutely true...and not only to avoid insulting the escorts but also to avoid hurting their feelings. Some guys also worry that posting a negative review will result in them being "black listed" by the offended escort, thus making it difficult for them to get dates with other providers. Etc.

-Ww

scorpioni6ths · Apr 3, 2016

TAG Manager said:
- We discourage providers from asking for reviews to be written.
- We make considerable efforts to block those obvious cases. (When we can establish a degree of separation; which allows us to believe a review is genuine.)
- Reviewer Verification: Other than the current checks we have in place (which are not public) how do you suggest we go about this? (please consider man power and we still have zero revenue)

Early on, some women asked for a review. Some didn't ask but I still wrote a review. Things changed. Lately, I'm been asking if the lady wants to be reviewed. Some were gracious enough. Some women asked specifically not to be reviewed.

User#8628 said:
Reviews of escorts who use this site are pretty flawed anyway. I think many guys hold their tongue because they don't want to insult us.

I'd have to agree but IMHO it is easy for reviewers to hold their tongue because it is not required to write everything in detail in the first place! It's about keeping some level of privacy and a sense of decency.

I do hope nobody is writing reviews to specifically insult or discredit the ladies.
Not everyone is as thick skinned as we ought to be or as mature thinking (I'm old but still has some fits of immaturity!)
Remember, we're all just human beings behind the usernames ... with insecurities, weaknesses, and feelings.

NormalGuy said:
It's difficult, but my initial reaction was:
1. All reviews go into a "pre-approved" queue before being published.
2. Any suspicious reviews are mailed to the escort (if she's a TAG member) and asked for her to verify. None TAG members, the suspicious review is automatically removed.
3. If the escort approves the review, and it turns out to be fake, then ban the escort, remove all positive reviews of her and change the shill review into a warning post. This would work for TAG account holders only.

#1 Queueing is an OK idea.
#2 What if all (not only suspicious) reviews need to be approved also by the lady (provided she is a TAG member) before becoming live? Might be cumbersome some ladies are not very active here but it will screen out fake reviews and privacy issues (e.g. sharing body marks (birthmarks, tats) that can easily single out the lady) specially if the lady has issues with stalkers.

Just my 0.02 yen.

Wwanderer · Apr 3, 2016

Imo fwiiw, this is not a solvable problem with any practical system (i.e., one that does not overly discourage reviews and does not create an excessive amount of additional work for board admin), and we all just need to be aware of it but also to live with it.

There is just no way around significant "corruption" of an online anonymous review or rating system; it is not limited to escort reviews on p4p-related boards by any means. For example, ratings on Amazon and Yelp are routinely affected by similar problems. I was slightly shocked to discover that it is fairly routine practice for authors to post Amazon self-reviews of their own books and to solicit positive ratings/reviews from their friends, family members, employees of the publisher etc, including from people who have never read the book. Competitors often also post false negative reviews online (common in restaurant reviews on Yelp, for example).

And even elaborate verification systems are open to corruption of course. A number of years back it was discovered that the operator of a major monger board in the US (located in Florida) was allowing certain escorts to post "verified" (by said operator) self-reviews and to enjoy other special privileges (including removing legit negative reviews) in return for giving him "free sessions" and such.

Basically, as with pretty much anything and everything else you see on the open internet...from reviews of any product/service to political views/news to technical information to advice on investing to..., it would be foolish folly indeed to accept it all at face value. You need to exercise common sense and ordinary "street smarts" skepticism. Caveat Emptor is a slogan for the internet age.

-Ww

Wwanderer · Apr 3, 2016

User#8628 said:
I mostly value my reviews from famous posters.

Perhaps I count as (in)famous on TAG...

Among currently active Tokyo escorts on TAG, I have posted a formal review only of @User#16452 , but I also "owe" them to
@User#8628
@MissInsomnia (Exotic Hana)
@Jennifer
and
a 3p date with @Manami TMK and @User#8628

The above list is in the order I committed to doing the reviews.

They should have all been done long ago. My excuses are a dislike of writing reviews (because I got tired of doing them around 15 years ago, because of the somewhat irritating TAG review webform, and because the whole review system is badly flawed...as discussed in this thread), being busy with work and other parts of life, and (most importantly) extreme sloth on my part.

For now, I can provide a preview to guys who can't wait: My dates with all of the above have been terrific, and the reviews I will eventually write will all be strongly positive. I'd happily recommend any and all of them to my best monger friends without the slightest hesitation or qualm. From my point of view, they are sort of like the items on the menu at some fantastic Michelin star restaurant; they are not the same, but they are all great, and which one is "best" depends mostly on a guy's personal tastes and style. You won't know much more useful information than what the previous 3 sentences tell you after you have read the formal reviews (I will eventually write).

Any guy who would like a more detailed opinion from me is welcome to contact me via a private convo, as quite a number of you have done in the past.

-Ww

RandomTokyoGuy · Apr 3, 2016

I'm not living on this board, so I may have missed something, but is there really such a huge problem with fake reviews? I wasn't really aware of that. Imho TAG removes fake reviews usually in a very reasonable time frame.
I too wouldn't bother with a review for second time if my first try is declined for whatever reason.
It should be common sense not to base ones judgement on just one review, especially if the reviewer has little history. You don't do that on amazon, why would you do it here?
Don't scare off new members or tourists from contributing.

@User#16452
If someone has his once in a lifetime trip to Tokyo / Japan completely ruined by a non perfect date with a Caucasian escort, that person has probably other problems

But of course you are always free to reconsider your considerations, if you feel that an encounter went suboptimal

User#16452 · Apr 3, 2016

RandomTokyoGuy said:
@User#16452
If someone has his once in a lifetime trip to Tokyo / Japan completely ruined by a non perfect date with a Caucasian escort, that person has probably other problems But of course you are always free to reconsider your considerations, if you feel that an encounter went suboptimal

I think you maybe misunderstand: I don't think I have need to stand handing out refunds. However, if someone was to write a review about me that said that I love anal sex, only for the gentlemen on the next date to request this and be told that this is not something that I actually offer, then that is cause for concern, no?

As things stand, I see no falsehoods in my reviews and do not recall any dates that might be described as "suboptimal". I do not edit or pre-screen my reviews. What you read is what you get

TAG Manager · Apr 3, 2016

Let's back this down a notch...

The basic point of reviews is to provide some validity to the provider... such as...

- Not a bait and switch - pics are real/recent and it's who you actually meet.
- System - Cost vs. Time vs. Value
- Point out any major flaws (that aren't disclosed and would be a deal breaker for *most* people.)
- Report on general attitude and overall service from start to finish. (i.e. clock watcher, one pop and done, too mechanical, 'dead fish' syndrome...etc.)

Beyond those points, all other parts of the review are just icing on the cake to help give readers a better picture of a provider.

Of course, we can go on and on about subsections of those highlights above, but those are really the major parts.

TAG was built on the idea to be a controlled but free tool for people to write reviews and gain some exposure to people that may not otherwise meet. The previous board that existed many years ago was plagued with censorship and simply deleting a (legit) bad review because of whatever reason it was at the time. Not only that, the board's owners just let it go down hill without any positive interaction from management to the members.

TAG Manager · Apr 3, 2016

kitsune said:
I never would have posted my first review if this was the requirement. I'm just one guy, but that's me.

TAG already includes the poster's message count, so there is some indication of whether the post is a one-off.

Hobbyers (is that a word?) should look at the history of a poster, and never take a review in isolation. I would never rely on the review of just one person.

Thank you, this post nails it on the head, appreciate it.

injp · Apr 3, 2016

Some feedback on the proposal, I think setting the threshold at 10 posts is too high. Some people don't feel the need to comment on other people's threads so they may never get to 10 posts. But doesn't mean that they shouldn't post reviews.

In fact I think you want to encourage people to post reviews. Lately it seems the reviews to chit chat ratio has been more on the chit chat side and this will make things worse because 1) some people won't be able to make reviews 2) it will encourage people to do more chit chat to reach the 10 post threshold.

A lot of good reviews come from travelers who are surprisingly adventurous, and are probably less worried about sharing what they found because they are not coming back again anytime soon.

There are not very many obviously fake reviews and they seemed to get removed right away. The suspicious reviews are almost always of some really expensive agency that serves foreigners almost exclusively that no regular poster of the thread would use.

I have never seen a fake review of cheap Chinese este or service that serves mostly Japanese people.

Maybe the fake reviews are headache for the tag admins, but as a reader they are not a big problem for me. I have even called out a review or 2 I think is fake and they got removed. It is all part of the fun of TAG

Willful · Apr 3, 2016

kitsune said:
I never would have posted my first review if this was the requirement. I'm just one guy, but that's me.

TAG already includes the poster's message count, so there is some indication of whether the post is a one-off.

Hobbyers (is that a word?) should look at the history of a poster, and never take a review in isolation. I would never rely on the review of just one person.

This is how I feel, especially since I am a newbie here. I believe research is key.

Closed Fake Provider Reviews

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