Strange Onsen Experience?

TokyoJoeblow

TokyoJoeblow

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After hiking Mount Fuji, my body was wrecked so me and some friends I met along the way decided on visiting an onsen.

These guys I hiked with are Japanese, but they we're a little busy for a while, so they said I could go to the onsen earlier since my body was hurting.

So I go in and right away this old Japanese dude strolls up to me asking if it is my first time and even though I said no, he proceeded to show where everything was?

After that, I went into this salt bath onsen and the Japanese man that was in there no more than a few minutes got out? Has this happened to anyone before at an onsen?

So after I soaked in the salt bath for about 10 minutes, I got out to go to another onsen and right as I passed by the same guy he coughed at me and got up and got back into the salt bath?

It could be that he just wants to avoid having to speak English, but I'm obviously there to relax not chit chat.

I find it ironic that he did this and all the while, the salt bath onsen was decorated with western style angels and artwork from Greek and Roman mythology haha.

I'm not being negative or paranoid. I'm only explaining my strange onsen experience to see if anyone can relate.
 
It happens. I've been to countless onsens and have had some colorful experiences as well as dull, nothing to speak of visits.

I did have someone show me the onsen manner system and time-by-time, someone will confirm if I know what I'm doing...

As for people getting up and moving, it happens too. Just like trains... Never really know the reason why and honestly don't care.
If I'm with a group of Japanese, that usually won't happen and even if I'm by myself, it only happens maybe 10% of the time.
 
TAG Manager said:
It happens. I've been to countless onsens and have had some colorful experiences as well as dull, nothing to speak of visits.

I did have someone show me the onsen manner system and time-by-time, someone will confirm if I know what I'm doing...

As for people getting up and moving, it happens too. Just like trains... Never really know the reason why and honestly don't care.
If I'm with a group of Japanese, that usually won't happen and even if I'm by myself, it only happens maybe 10% of the time.
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Yes, but have you ever experienced a Japanese guy not only getting out of the onsen when you get in but a super loud cough in your direction while he re-enters the same onsen you just got out of?

I could be wrong, but he sure seemed like he was trying to convey a negative message to me.
 
TokyoJoeblow said:
Yes, but have you ever experienced a Japanese guy not only getting out of the onsen when you get in but a super loud cough in your direction while he re-enters the same onsen you just got out of?

I could be wrong, but he sure seemed like he was trying to convey a negative message to me.
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Maybe so... worse things have happened.
It's not unheard of... gaijins stink you know?
 
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TAG Manager said:
Maybe so... worse things have happened.
It's not unheard of... gaijins stink you know?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure that is what he believes but I had already showered after my hike and before getting near the onsen because I know the rules.

I love how they think foreigners stink and they don't? I have stood next to some fowl smelling Japanese, both men and women, young and old.
 
Sounds like he may have had a sore throat. It's possible he left so you would not get infected.

On the other hand, whenever I go to a place that has more than one onsen, I prefer a solitary relaxation. Most of the time I time my visits during slow times, mostly at ryokans, during meals, or after checkout and before check-in.

Sometimes you are a bit sensitive and let your imagination take over. Many times there are no hidden agendas. It's just circumstances and not directed personally to you.

But hey, keep posting your imaginative experiences. They are funny, interesting, and unusual. But be prepared for the wise-asses, it comes with the territory. :ROFLMAO:

Oh, would your recommend the onsen? Is there a website?
 
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roots reggae said:
Sounds like he may have had a sore throat. It's possible he left so you would not get infected.

On the other hand, whenever I go to a place that has more than one onsen, I prefer a solitary relaxation. Most of the time I time my visits during slow times, mostly at ryokans, during meals, or after checkout and before check-in.

Sometimes you are a bit sensitive and let your imagination take over. Many times there are no hidden agendas. It's just circumstances and not directed personally to you.

But hey, keep posting your imaginative experiences. They are funny, interesting, and unusual. But be prepared for the wise-asses, it comes with the territory. :ROFLMAO:

Oh, would your recommend the onsen? Is there a website?
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The onsen is called Hana no yu and there are locations all over Japan. I go to the one in Fujinoniya.

Yes, I realize that I could be imagining things, but if an old Japanese man is scowling and coughing and avoiding me...then him actually giving a shit about my general health seems a little far-fetched doesn't it?

It is more likely that he assumes foreigners don't understand onsen etiquette and therefore they shouldn't even be there.
 
TokyoJoeblow said:
It is more likely that he assumes foreigners don't understand onsen etiquette and therefore they shouldn't even be there.
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Yeah, I've seen people being taught about stuff in the onsen by locals when they break the rules (like putting the towel in the water).

Also seen people get out of the bath that foreigners were in. Happened to me once, and I don't even look that foreign (Asian).

Sometimes I think people enjoy the bath alone. Once I went to a bath around six in the morning and this old man was there. The bath opens at five so he might have been there quite long. After I showered and entered the bath far from him, I heard him sigh, "Aaaaahhhh" in pleasure (like he was drinking a beer on a hot day), then he got up and left.

Maybe it was kind of a reminder that he has spent long enough there? He must have been daydreaming then my presence reminded him to get some breakfast.

Although there are definitely some people who don't want to share a bath with gaijin, and then some who don't want to share with other people at all (going to the bath at weird times and leaving when others come).
 
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Most of these old goats normally check out the gaijin packages and say something 'amusing' like.

"Be careful where you put that. You might take someone's eye out with it."
 
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TokyoJoeblow said:
It is more likely that he assumes foreigners don't understand onsen etiquette and therefore they shouldn't even be there.
Click to expand...

No, it's more likely that you apparently don't understand the mindset of many Japanese and why he'd be weirded out.

Let's follow the bouncing ball:

1. Japanese people (especially older Japanese people, and especially people not in cities) strongly value harmony.

2. Harmony is based on relatively strict adherence to rules -- not just the onsen rules, but ALL the unwritten rules of Japanese society -- as I once learned when my extremely progressive JP girlfriend at the time got really pissed at me for forgetting to take my shoes off once.

3. People are at peace when they know everyone goes by the same rules. Disturbing these rules can be a minor annoyance to a grave error. In work and consumer settings, people say 'shitsurei shimasu' when entering and 'shitsurei shimashita' when leaving, which essentially means "I'm being rude" and "I was rude", respectively.

4. Now, if you're an old guy relaxing in the bath (or sitting on a train trying to decompress from a long day at work), and a foreigner comes your way, what happens? Can you safely assume that this hakujin doesn't just 'know the rules' but has lived a lifetime steeped in those values? Probably not.

5. So the foreigner is a wild card. Always in danger of breaking the rules and therefore disturbing the harmony of those around him (whether or not this is accurate or fair). You just being there is disturbing his harmony, in his mind. This is also why many Japanese folks are a little shocked when they meet a non-Japanese Asian person, assume they are Japanese, and then realize that the person doesn't speak Japanese. This is probably also why a lot of red light establishments are Japanese-only.

6. Some Japanese people are fine with a little ding to their harmony. A lot of city dwellers are. They see foreigners all the time. Some Japanese are motivated to teach you the rules (of the onsen, etc). Some Japanese are fascinated when they realize you know many of the rules (or can speak Japanese, or can use chopsticks, etc). Some Japanese get physically uncomfortable around foreigners and start making coughing sounds, or hurry away. There might be a little residual issues from WWII if the guy is old enough. Who knows? That's just the way it is. Nothing for you to freak out about. If you speak good Japanese, maybe striking up a conversation with such Japanese people might reassure them that you aren't going to go all gaijin smash on him.
 
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meiji said:
2. Harmony is based on relatively strict adherence to rules -- not just the onsen rules, but ALL the unwritten rules of Japanese society -- as I once learned when my extremely progressive JP girlfriend at the time got really pissed at me for forgetting to take my shoes off once.
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Coming from a country where everyone takes off their shoes but isn't as legalistic as Japan, I think most people would get pissed regardless. It means extra cleaning!

When I was in Europe for a short time I couldn't get used to the fact that people wore their shoes indoors. There wasn't even a place at the entrance for you to sit down and take off/put on your shoes. I couldn't imagine how filthy the floor was. But I digress...
 
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deckard said:
Coming from a country where everyone takes off their shoes but isn't as legalistic as Japan, I think most people would get pissed regardless. It means extra cleaning!

When I was in Europe for a short time I couldn't get used to the fact that people wore their shoes indoors. There wasn't even a place at the entrance for you to sit down and take off/put on your shoes. I couldn't imagine how filthy the floor was. But I digress...
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Hah, i'm from Europe but my parents still always made me take off my shoes at the door. Nobody likes extra cleaning.
 
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deckard said:
Coming from a country where everyone takes off their shoes but isn't as legalistic as Japan, I think most people would get pissed regardless. It means extra cleaning!

When I was in Europe for a short time I couldn't get used to the fact that people wore their shoes indoors. There wasn't even a place at the entrance for you to sit down and take off/put on your shoes. I couldn't imagine how filthy the floor was. But I digress...
Click to expand...

I have been to a number of European countries and while you don't take off shoes in public spaces, you do in private ones. At least I don't recall visiting a place where it was ok to enter with street shoes.

It's a different matter with parties. Given that it's not wet outside and the floor permits it, the requirement to take off shoes is sometimes waived by the host.

But maybe I didn't go to the right places.
 
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i am from europe and been to most of the european countries... we take our shoes off in any private spaces... the party exception exists, because its a bit impractical, usually every room is used in a party setting (the coolest people are always in the kitchen) and so is the entrance room... if you got 40 pairs of shoes there, you cant use it...
i think the only other exceptions i witnessed have been squatter houses and other rundown places in the netherlands (but that has nothing to do with any dutch custom)...
 
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London and Paris, when visiting other people's homes. Yeah, it was probably because they were parties...
 
MossBoss said:
Most of these old goats normally check out the gaijin packages and say something 'amusing' like.

"Be careful where you put that. You might take someone's eye out with it."
Click to expand...

In low budget "onsens" in China (actually just brothels) it's really funny. Starts with a stare, group stare, question, admiration, compliment, and lastly, a joke about how it must be painful to Chinese girls. Jokingly I say 6 dead and countless sworn off of foreigners. But really, those guys have what looks like to be a cyst. It was like I was in the land of dwarves with magical stumps that could miraculously penetrate a lifesavers hole.
 
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meiji said:
No, it's more likely that you apparently don't understand the mindset of many Japanese and why he'd be weirded out.

Let's follow the bouncing ball:

1. Japanese people (especially older Japanese people, and especially people not in cities) strongly value harmony.

2. Harmony is based on relatively strict adherence to rules -- not just the onsen rules, but ALL the unwritten rules of Japanese society -- as I once learned when my extremely progressive JP girlfriend at the time got really pissed at me for forgetting to take my shoes off once.

3. People are at peace when they know everyone goes by the same rules. Disturbing these rules can be a minor annoyance to a grave error. In work and consumer settings, people say 'shitsurei shimasu' when entering and 'shitsurei shimashita' when leaving, which essentially means "I'm being rude" and "I was rude", respectively.

4. Now, if you're an old guy relaxing in the bath (or sitting on a train trying to decompress from a long day at work), and a foreigner comes your way, what happens? Can you safely assume that this hakujin doesn't just 'know the rules' but has lived a lifetime steeped in those values? Probably not.

5. So the foreigner is a wild card. Always in danger of breaking the rules and therefore disturbing the harmony of those around him (whether or not this is accurate or fair). You just being there is disturbing his harmony, in his mind. This is also why many Japanese folks are a little shocked when they meet a non-Japanese Asian person, assume they are Japanese, and then realize that the person doesn't speak Japanese. This is probably also why a lot of red light establishments are Japanese-only.

6. Some Japanese people are fine with a little ding to their harmony. A lot of city dwellers are. They see foreigners all the time. Some Japanese are motivated to teach you the rules (of the onsen, etc). Some Japanese are fascinated when they realize you know many of the rules (or can speak Japanese, or can use chopsticks, etc). Some Japanese get physically uncomfortable around foreigners and start making coughing sounds, or hurry away. There might be a little residual issues from WWII if the guy is old enough. Who knows? That's just the way it is. Nothing for you to freak out about. If you speak good Japanese, maybe striking up a conversation with such Japanese people might reassure them that you aren't going to go all gaijin smash on him.
Click to expand...
I understand this mindset and why it's there but do you think it's really necessary anymorr. With the Olympics coming up and more and more gaijin coming to Japan I think it's time they get over it. I find it ignorant..
 
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patty diaz said:
I understand this mindset and why it's there but do you think it's really necessary anymorr. With the Olympics coming up and more and more gaijin coming to Japan I think it's time they get over it. I find it ignorant..
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Well, sure. But fear and misunderstanding of the 'other' exists everywhere. I used to spend a lot of time in the American South, and if I had brought a Japanese GF there some people I know would have asked me if she's a 'geisha' (a whore in American popular imagination).
 
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meiji said:
Well, sure. But fear and misunderstanding of the 'other' exists everywhere. I used to spend a lot of time in the American South, and if I had brought a Japanese GF there some people I know would have asked me if she's a 'geisha' (a whore in American popular imagination).
Click to expand...
I get that it's everywhere and I hate that too it's definitely not an exclusive Japan problem.
 
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meiji said:
No, it's more likely that you apparently don't understand the mindset of many Japanese and why he'd be weirded out.

Let's follow the bouncing ball:

1. Japanese people (especially older Japanese people, and especially people not in cities) strongly value harmony.

2. Harmony is based on relatively strict adherence to rules -- not just the onsen rules, but ALL the unwritten rules of Japanese society -- as I once learned when my extremely progressive JP girlfriend at the time got really pissed at me for forgetting to take my shoes off once.

3. People are at peace when they know everyone goes by the same rules. Disturbing these rules can be a minor annoyance to a grave error. In work and consumer settings, people say 'shitsurei shimasu' when entering and 'shitsurei shimashita' when leaving, which essentially means "I'm being rude" and "I was rude", respectively.

4. Now, if you're an old guy relaxing in the bath (or sitting on a train trying to decompress from a long day at work), and a foreigner comes your way, what happens? Can you safely assume that this hakujin doesn't just 'know the rules' but has lived a lifetime steeped in those values? Probably not.

5. So the foreigner is a wild card. Always in danger of breaking the rules and therefore disturbing the harmony of those around him (whether or not this is accurate or fair). You just being there is disturbing his harmony, in his mind. This is also why many Japanese folks are a little shocked when they meet a non-Japanese Asian person, assume they are Japanese, and then realize that the person doesn't speak Japanese. This is probably also why a lot of red light establishments are Japanese-only.

6. Some Japanese people are fine with a little ding to their harmony. A lot of city dwellers are. They see foreigners all the time. Some Japanese are motivated to teach you the rules (of the onsen, etc). Some Japanese are fascinated when they realize you know many of the rules (or can speak Japanese, or can use chopsticks, etc). Some Japanese get physically uncomfortable around foreigners and start making coughing sounds, or hurry away. There might be a little residual issues from WWII if the guy is old enough. Who knows? That's just the way it is. Nothing for you to freak out about. If you speak good Japanese, maybe striking up a conversation with such Japanese people might reassure them that you aren't going to go all gaijin smash on him.
Click to expand...

And not to forget...

We are guests in this country and as such, should make every effort to understand and respect the values and culture of Japan. That means placing aside our own values and culture. The world does not revolve around us and we should not expect Japanese people to deny their heritage in order to meet out expectations.
 
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meiji said:
No, it's more likely that you apparently don't understand the mindset of many Japanese and why he'd be weirded out.

Let's follow the bouncing ball:

1. Japanese people (especially older Japanese people, and especially people not in cities) strongly value harmony.

2. Harmony is based on relatively strict adherence to rules -- not just the onsen rules, but ALL the unwritten rules of Japanese society -- as I once learned when my extremely progressive JP girlfriend at the time got really pissed at me for forgetting to take my shoes off once.

3. People are at peace when they know everyone goes by the same rules. Disturbing these rules can be a minor annoyance to a grave error. In work and consumer settings, people say 'shitsurei shimasu' when entering and 'shitsurei shimashita' when leaving, which essentially means "I'm being rude" and "I was rude", respectively.

4. Now, if you're an old guy relaxing in the bath (or sitting on a train trying to decompress from a long day at work), and a foreigner comes your way, what happens? Can you safely assume that this hakujin doesn't just 'know the rules' but has lived a lifetime steeped in those values? Probably not.

5. So the foreigner is a wild card. Always in danger of breaking the rules and therefore disturbing the harmony of those around him (whether or not this is accurate or fair). You just being there is disturbing his harmony, in his mind. This is also why many Japanese folks are a little shocked when they meet a non-Japanese Asian person, assume they are Japanese, and then realize that the person doesn't speak Japanese. This is probably also why a lot of red light establishments are Japanese-only.

6. Some Japanese people are fine with a little ding to their harmony. A lot of city dwellers are. They see foreigners all the time. Some Japanese are motivated to teach you the rules (of the onsen, etc). Some Japanese are fascinated when they realize you know many of the rules (or can speak Japanese, or can use chopsticks, etc). Some Japanese get physically uncomfortable around foreigners and start making coughing sounds, or hurry away. There might be a little residual issues from WWII if the guy is old enough. Who knows? That's just the way it is. Nothing for you to freak out about. If you speak good Japanese, maybe striking up a conversation with such Japanese people might reassure them that you aren't going to go all gaijin smash on him.
Click to expand...

Well, next time a Japanese person coughs at me or acts strange, I will make it a point to strike up a conversation with that person and see if they suddenly show friendliness.

I'm a foreigner, but I know a ton about Japanese culture, etiquette and unwritten law. Even when I'm doing and saying everything correctly, some people just don't want to see or hear it because with xenophobia, comes selective hearing.

Being called a Wild Card is pretty sexy haha.
 
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