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Differences Between Sugar Dating And Traditional P4p

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home!
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Imo, a key difference between sugar dating and escorting is that any reasonably normal monger can have a satisfactory ordinary p4p date with any reasonably normal escort, but SDs and SBs must have a significant degree of personal compatibility (i.e., they *both* have to enjoy the other's company) for a satisfactory sugar arrangement. Of course, personal compatibility (or lack thereof) makes a pure escort appointment/service better (or worse) and is important in that sense, but it isn't essential to at least a minimally satisfactory traditional p4p transaction.

Moreover, for a sugar arrangement to work well, this personable compatibility must be sufficient for both people to enjoy seeing each other for multiple and reasonably extended (a few hours at a time at the *minimum*) dates that include sharing a variety of activities together.

-Ww
 
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No.

you two are over dramatizing it

If emotions and compatibility are involved then just get into a real relationship without money or material things involved

I've said this before and I'd say it again, SD is a danger to Japanese style P4p where you get laid for in exchange for your money, for a specific period of time. You rarely get screwed. Most of the time, you know what you want and what you're getting. It is fast and efficient like a burger and fries meal because both sides' time is extremely important. We're busy and we ain't got time for dating and shit like that.
 
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No.

you two are over dramatizing it

If emotions and compatibility are involved then just get into a real relationship without money or material things involved

I've said this before and I'd say it again, SD is a danger to Japanese style P4p where you get laid for in exchange for your money, for a specific period of time. You rarely get screwed. Most of the time, you know what you want and what you're getting. It is fast and efficient like a burger and fries meal because both sides' time is extremely important. We're busy and we ain't got time for dating and shit like that.

I don't understand what you're saying.. Your intent is to "disagree" but your message is actually in total agreement with what Ww said, in that straight P4P is more momentary and transactional in nature (busy and quick?)

Anyways, my only feedback is on the P4P side as I have no experience in that realm.. Two memorable experiences I had that were mind blowing, my recent time with Alice aside (!), was with two particularly different ladies..

One was an absolute sex bomb in her mid-20's that was active on Twitter, writes and blogs, travel escorts, and.. is a petite blonde busty multiorgasmic squirter. You could do absolutely nothing and it would be like having the best seats at Formula 1. She was like a finely tuned sex Ferrari. I take absolutely no personal credit whatsoever for the experience and you just try to hang on and keep up.

Another one was with a petite Russian woman. She was in her mid 30's and had a thing for broad shouldered Asian guys. I apparently reminded her of one of her old boyfriends. It was one of those "click!" moments where it was just easy. You fall into conversation easier, you're unconsciously just naturally comfortable getting into the act, you tell each other what you want, how you want it, and you just give it to each other good. Communication is so important to getting to that next level, and oh boy, chemistry just makes it that much easier.
 
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SD makes sense to them because he gets more sex out of her and she gets more money from him

what I don't agree with is the compatibility and emotions thing

two people can be compatible and can live in the mountains and hunt rabbit for food for the rest of their lives, and that wouldn't be sugar dating
 
SD makes sense to them because he gets more sex out of her and she gets more money from him

what I don't agree with is the compatibility and emotions thing

two people can be compatible and can live in the mountains and hunt rabbit for food for the rest of their lives, and that wouldn't be sugar dating

It would be if he did all the hunting! :p

The flash and dazzle of a first meeting or a very infrequent one is dulled by frequency and the passage of time. Our brains are trained to respond less intensely to repeat stimuli.. So you better be fond of said stimuli if it's going to repeat itself.

I'm kind of amused about your objection, do you not enjoy the sessions where you and your partner click? If you saw the same girl more than once you wouldn't ask her how she's been? If you saw the same girl twice and she knew exactly the kind of kissing that you liked and that oh so special spot, would that not make it more fun?
 
what I don't agree with is the compatibility and emotions thing

It is simple: "The compatibility and emotions thing" is necessary but not sufficient to call a relationship sugar dating, imo, imi and by my definition. In other words, not everything that involves "the compatibility and emotions thing" is sugar dating, but anything that does not involve it is not sugar dating.

For example, I agree that this

two people can be compatible and can live in the mountains and hunt rabbit for food for the rest of their lives, and that wouldn't be sugar dating

is not sugar dating, but that does not imply that relationships involving "the compatibility and emotions thing" cannot be sugar dating.

Clearer?

I suspect that you are simply saying that you, personally, don't wish to mix "the compatibility and emotions thing" with anything resembling p4p...which is fine. WALDT.

-Ww
 
IMO, they're two different things

One is cash for physical pleasure of sex.
One is cash for emotional connection, fulfillment; with a possibility of sex.

Exactly...at least by my understanding, definition and practice of sugar dating. (Different people have very different concepts of it.) The one thing that your post doesn't make so clear/explicit is that many SBs are also motivated by "emotional connection, fulfillment; with a possibility of sex" within that connection...not just by the money.

-Ww
 
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Exactly...at least by my understanding, definition and practice of sugar dating. (Different people have very different concepts of it.) The one thing that your post doesn't make so clear/explicit is that many SBs are also motivated by "emotional connection, fulfillment; with a possibility of sex" within that connection...not just by the money.

-Ww
Right, but the money is the x factor. I mean if the SB only wanted that emotional connection, they could just get in a relationship. Likewise, if an escort just wanted to have sex, she could go pretty much anywhere and meet @Sinapse =P.

Of course neither profession is exclusively about money, I was at a club one night and met 4 off-duty escorts who were just out for the night together. They told me they did it because they loved sex and wanted to get paid for it like a regular job. What's the saying? If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life? =P
 
IMO, they're two different things

One is cash for physical pleasure of sex.
One is cash for emotional connection, fulfillment; with a possibility of sex.

Another comment is that the difference between the two is somewhat blurred when you see upscale indie escorts for extended dates, "dinner plus dessert" style packages. However, they are still not the same thing imo; to me and many others in the sugar bowl, sugar dating implies seeing each other reasonably frequently and over a somewhat extended period of time. It is a bit like the distinction between a ONS and dating in np4p relationships.

-Ww
 
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she could go pretty much anywhere and meet @Sinapse =P.

LOL!

Of course neither profession is exclusively about money, I was at a club one night and met 4 off-duty escorts who were just out for the night together. They told me they did it because they loved sex and wanted to get paid for it like a regular job. What's the saying? If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life? =P

Right and good points imo. Escorts and other SWs can get pleasure and fulfillment from their work just as people doing most other sorts of jobs can. However, a distinction is that the non-financial rewards escorts are seeking are rarely "emotional connection" or "affection". However, SBs often want at least some degree of "real feelings" for and from their SDs.

-Ww
 
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Right and good points imo. Escorts and other SWs can get pleasure and fulfillment from their work just as people doing most other sorts of jobs can. However, a distinction is that the non-financial rewards escorts are seeking are rarely "emotional connection" or "affection".

-Ww
I hesitate to agree with this, and I say this with no offense intended to our resident escorts, but the Hollywood impression is that most escorts get there because of daddy issues and can turn to it for temporary relief or to satiate that gap in their life. I wouldn't dream of saying this applies to all of em, but usually these stereotypes (for lack of a better term) do have some grain of truth to them.
 
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I hesitate to agree with this, and I say this with no offense intended to our resident escorts, but the Hollywood impression is that most escorts get there because of daddy issues and can turn to it for temporary relief or to satiate that gap in their life. I wouldn't dream of saying this applies to all of em, but usually these stereotypes (for lack of a better term) do have some grain of truth to them.

My anecdotal personal experience is that "daddy issues" are more common among SBs than straight escorts. Women who find themselves strongly attracted to much older men often have "daddy issues" of some sort...but there are also a lot of exceptions. And, of course, there are a lot of men who want their lovers to "mother them" even if they are their age or younger.

-Ww
 
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My anecdotal personal experience is that "daddy issues" are more common among SBs than straight escorts. Women who find themselves strongly attracted to much older men often have "daddy issues" of some sort...but there are also a lot of exceptions. And, of course, there are a lot of men who want their lovers to "mother them" even if they are their age or younger.

-Ww
True, though I would argue that you have an easier time connecting with an SB vs an Escort to really see the daddy issues coming through their personality, just based on a longevity and frequency of repeat visits, and also the depth of the relationship. Your point on escorts that do the whole GFE experience is true, but I would venture a guess that the majority of your escort encounters weren't like this.

I never really saw anything wrong with younger women attracted to older men, especially in this day where most guys in their 20's aren't men; they're emo, self-loathing hipsters... *tear* #IAmNotAMillenial ...And this problem isn't unique to the West!
https://gaijinchronicles.com/2010/08/31/plight-of-the-grass-eater/

More to the real point in that most guys in their 20's are still finding themselves and aren't as attractive to women in general. Men in their 30's+ can provide stability, are typically more confident, etc which (again, painting with a broad brush) is more attractive. Men are like wine, we get better with age. George Clooney, Sean Connery, and Johnny Depp are tributes to this ;)
 
I'm not sure I can say anything constructive on the topic as I'm not sure I know exactly the difference between SD/SB kind of relationship and p4p.

If you click particularly well with an escort, you see her regularly and stay in touch on a even more regular basis are you de facto a SD ?
Is there also some kind of notion of exclusivity?
Does it mean you pay her on a monthly basis and not a hourly/day basis?
 
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True, though I would argue that you have an easier time connecting with an SB vs an Escort to really see the daddy issues coming through their personality, just based on a longevity and frequency of repeat visits, and also the depth of the relationship.

OK, point well taken now that you mention it. I withdraw my conclusion to a degree. There is a huge sampling bias.

Your point on escorts that do the whole GFE experience is true, but I would venture a guess that the majority of your escort encounters weren't like this.

I probably had a lot more of those types of escort encounters than a lot of mongers, and I have had the great good fortune to have real personal relationships with some very-much-pro escorts over the years, including some in which I stopped being a customer. I also know and have known some purely socially.

I never really saw anything wrong with younger women attracted to older men

I don't see anything at all wrong with it...including if it grows out of some "daddy issues". Why would it be wrong?

especially in this day where most guys in their 20's aren't men; they're emo, self-loathing hipsters... *tear* #IAmNotAMillenial ...And this problem isn't unique to the West!
https://gaijinchronicles.com/2010/08/31/plight-of-the-grass-eater/

I don't think that I wanna touch this one except to say how much I appreciate the immaturity and psychological unattractiveness of a lot of younger guys. It has enormously and increasingly enriched my love life as I've grown older!

More to the real point in that most guys in their 20's are still finding themselves and aren't as attractive to women in general. Men in their 30's+ can provide stability, are typically more confident, etc which (again, painting with a broad brush) is more attractive. Men are like wine, we get better with age. George Clooney, Sean Connery, and Johnny Depp are tributes to this ;)

You left out Santa Claus! :D

-Ww
 
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I'm not sure I can say anything constructive on the topic as I'm not sure I know exactly the difference between SD/SB kind of relationship and p4p.

If you click particularly well with an escort, you see her regularly and stay in touch on a even more regular basis are you de facto a SD ?

Yes, sometimes and to a degree. But in that sort of situation, a purely p4p relationship can also evolve into a np4p romantic one (not common, but it happens), perhaps passing through a sugar phase on the way. Relationships of all sorts can evolve of course.

Is there also some kind of notion of exclusivity?

That is highly variable. Some seek or require exclusivity in the sugar world; others (including me) won't have it or at least don't require it. My SA profile specifies that I am not seeking anything exclusive, and I virtually always emphasize this when I first meet and SB and try to make sure that she is ok with it.

Does it mean you pay her on a monthly basis and not a hourly/day basis?

A "conventional" sugar arrangement is based on a monthly allowance; this is how it tends to be described on sugar dating sites such as SA. However, in reality, many other types of financial arrangements are worked out. A "per date" allowance/support/gift is also very common and is normally what I go for initially. This means a fixed amount regardless of how long the date lasts or what activities it includes. I saw an SB in NYC two days ago, and gave her the normal amount despite the fact that we were very short on time and both of us were under the weather a bit...so no sex, not even a kiss (since we didn't want to get the other person sick). On our previous date, we spent several hours in a hotel room with quite a lot of fairly kinky play plus a good amount of lower intensity physical affection in the "breaks"...but exactly the same amount of money involved.

If a sugar relationship goes well, the financial arrangements often evolve into something very specific and relatively unique that works for both parties...at least that is my experience.

-Ww
 
Yes, sometimes and to a degree. But in that sort of situation, a purely p4p relationship can also evolve into a np4p romantic one (not common, but it happens), perhaps passing through a sugar phase on the way. Relationships of all sorts can evolve of course.

KLANG, KLANG, KLANG, KLANG......
 
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No.

you two are over dramatizing it

If emotions and compatibility are involved then just get into a real relationship without money or material things involved

I've said this before and I'd say it again, SD is a danger to Japanese style P4p where you get laid for in exchange for your money, for a specific period of time. You rarely get screwed. Most of the time, you know what you want and what you're getting. It is fast and efficient like a burger and fries meal because both sides' time is extremely important. We're busy and we ain't got time for dating and shit like that.
JAPANESE style p4p? Are you kidding? If there is any country in which emotional attachment is important in p4p its Japan.
A few examples:
-one of the reasons no condom sex is popular at soaplands is because men feel like its more similar to real love. Also in theory the soap lady gets paid to bath you but "falls in love" with you which makes giving FS "legal".
-old time oirans pulled a lot of tricks to make guys believe they loved them, and in many cases their customers bought them free and married them
-geisha are basically high class sugar babies who often slept with their biggest sponsors
-japanese customers always ask girls to go out for dinner, or any free dates or extra time which doesn't seem focussed on getting free sex but rather on getting company. Japanese guys often seem very lonely.
-deai cafes are a pretty long and established japanese way of p4p, and kosai clubs are also doing pretty well with the upper class.

Japanese p4p is so tied to loneliness and love and emotions in my experience.
 
JAPANESE style p4p? Are you kidding? If there is any country in which emotional attachment is important in p4p its Japan.

...

Japanese p4p is so tied to loneliness and love and emotions in my experience.

Excellent and important point imo.

My guess/opinion is that this is related to the fact that it is normal/expected in Japanese culture to hide one's real feelings and express false ones (honne and tatemae) in the interests of social harmony (wa); this is considered perfectly acceptable, even admirable. It is pretty much considered good manners in a lot of social situations in Japan. My guess is that most Japanese are so accustomed to this emotional duality (the private and the public) in their daily lives that they have little problem navigating it in p4p interactions. The customer expects to receive and the sex worker expects to provide a faux (tatemae) emotional connection as a matter of routine and is not likely to be much concerned with the other's real/actual (honne) inner feelings. It is simply the way that their social world works.

By contrast, Westerners and many others tend to see this sort of emotional "double think" as a form of delusion or even duplicity.

-Ww
 
Excellent and important point imo.

My guess/opinion is that this is related to the fact that it is normal/expected in Japanese culture to hide one's real feelings and express false ones (honne and tatemae) in the interests of social harmony (wa); this is considered perfectly acceptable, even admirable. It is pretty much considered good manners in a lot of social situations in Japan. My guess is that most Japanese are so accustomed to this emotional duality (the private and the public) in their daily lives that they have little problem navigating it in p4p interactions. The customer expects to receive and the sex worker expects to provide a faux (tatemae) emotional connection as a matter of routine and is not likely to be much concerned with the other's real/actual (honne) inner feelings. It is simply the way that their social world works.

By contrast, Westerners and many others tend to see this sort of emotional "double think" as a form of delusion or even duplicity.

-Ww

It's interesting.. I'm probably "brash" even by North American standards when it comes to business related matters, but I have been told that since I'm so genuinely honest about it, it apparently tends to prevent people from being offended, so we'll see how I fare in Japan? I tend to have little to no patience for anything I would consider "nonsense" that is counterproductive or inefficient.. Blind adherence to social structures or hierarchy makes me cringe - no matter where I see it!

It does make me wonder though, getting back to the topic at hand, whether as I delve into the more typical aspects of the "Japanese" experience I'll find it less to my liking.. :whistle:
 
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It does make me wonder though, getting back to the topic at hand, whether as I delve into the more typical aspects of the "Japanese" experience I'll find it less to my liking.. :whistle:

Fwiiw, many long-term (decades) expats will tell you that they have gone through multiple phases/periods of being alternately charmed and repulsed by various aspects of Japanese culture. It is not simple and is incredibly easy for gaijin to misunderstand even when they are fully convinced that they understand it deeply.

-Ww