A friend of mine is dating a woman I was into. Was it a shitty thing to do?

[greenhawk]

A good night’s sleep was all it took.
I was so much younger back then, had the energy of a wild stallion, took good care of myself and had a strong sense of karma.
It would be nearly another decade when I really fell so hard for someone and got my confidence shaken when things went south.
But all these things pass, bro.
I repeat: Life is too short. Best to move on.

Thanks man I appreciate it. I have been on summer break so maybe all of this free time is a reason for too much anxiety. Maybe going back to work next week and getting back on schedule will help.

 

[MikeH]

How long should I wait? I felt I needed to get to know her well enough and see if there was anything between us before being able to ask her out.

Again, you are being way too serious about this whole thing. It is the first step and you are not going to propose having a baby with her (at least I hope so) but you are proposing to have coffee, drinks, dinner, whatever with her.

The point of asking if she would like to go out with you is to be able to find out if there is anything between you two. And no, there won't ever be if you don't ask her out first.

 

[greenhawk]

I'm a little drunker now and had the chance to peruse the rest of OP's posts, and I think I've been able to put together a profile (again, I'm drunk). OP is an overweight and generally unattractive guy with severe confidence issues, a pronounced tendency to overthink things related to relationships, has probably never had an actual meaningful romantic relationship before and probably suffers from a pretty standard case of obsessive-compulsive-disorder. He has a tendency to create vivid, hypothetical romantic fantasies in his mind as he obsesses over certain females, all the while hating himself for being too [insert negative here] as an excuse for why he hasn't yet asked the girl out yet "but plans to." He probably stays up late at night acting out different roles and hypothetical situations, trying to build up his confidence, and spends enough time doing this that when he gets "rejected" (i.e., a normal guy asked her out and they're humping now) he feels even more dejected.

OP, you wanna know what works WONDERS for guys like you? Honestly? COCAINE. Obviously, I'm not suggesting you break any laws or anything along those lines, but I've seen a few shots of Chivas Regal and a couple of lines turn socially-backwards loser chumps into self-professed Don Juans....if only for thirty minutes at a time. But you come correct with a couple of bumps and I guarantee some lonely, chubby tag-along at the bar will definitely bob your knob in the parking lot after a few rounds. Get to work!

Not bad. I wouldn't say I am overweight, working on losing some extra pounds, I don't have OCD, and my relationship with my first girlfriend was meaningful, everything else is spot on though. Years ago at Fanime a guy running the panel "nerd courting" had a really good point. He was talking about how for normal guys who go out to pick up women are looking just for sex so when they get rejected all that is lost is a sexual encounter so they move on the the next woman. For nerds when we would be interested in a woman we want a relationship so we start to imagine more then just sex. We imagine having a relationship with said woman and imagining all of these things that we want to happen, thus when we are rejected or find out we can't date her it hurts a lot more because that entire romantic fantasy we have just created in our head is never going to be. Mean while that guy at the bar who just got rejected by a random attractive woman just lost a sexual encounter and that is it so he moves on to the next woman.

I tend to only focus on one woman at a time time. I meet a woman, want to date her, use whatever opportunities I can to talk to her and get to know her, try to find out if she is single, find out she has a boyfriend, move on to the next. Even when I tried online dating I would usually only message one woman at a time and wait until the woman I was messaging stopped replying before moving on to another. People told me to send out multiple messages at once which I did later on, but to me it just felt more productive to focus on one woman at a time. I won't do drugs, but provided Chivas Regal isn't too strong I might try a shot tonight.

First, you say that when you're attracted to a female, you worry you aren't good enough. This is easy. YOU PROBABLY AREN'T. So lower your expectations.

Next, ACT LIKE A MAN. Go to a large party, gathering or gaijin bar. See any girls you think are attractive? Found one? Nope, you're probably too fucking ugly. Lower expectations, remember? So now try to pick out one you think inhabits roughly the same level of unattractiveness that you do. Preferably a lonely looking one with prettier friends. Found her? Good, now pound a few drinks and walk over and start talking. You do NOT talk about yourself, do NOT talk about your feelings, do NOT whine about anything. For once in your life, ask her about HER and stick with that conversation as long as possible because you already know you have a habit of focusing on yourself.

I actually have very low expectations if you can believe it. As long as she isn't unattractive, wants to have kids, gets along with me, and hates Disney I am good lol. I am not interested in dating gaijin women, but if I go for the lonely women in a group of friends what if it becomes obvious what I am doing and she or her friends mention it? Do I acknowledge it? Play it off comically?

 

[greenhawk]

The toxicity stops now, any further posts that are crossing over into toxic territory, will be removed.

I appreciate the thought, but I didn't consider anything anyone was saying towards me to be toxic though. I was expecting harsh answers when I posted this.

 

[TAG Manager]

I appreciate the thought, but I didn't consider anything anyone was saying towards me to be toxic though. I was expecting harsh answers when I posted this.

There was enough concern to put a warning - not just by my own accord.

 

[Frenchy]

I appreciate the thought, but I didn't consider anything anyone was saying towards me to be toxic though. I was expecting harsh answers when I posted this.

Oooooh be very afraid of what you expect my friend !

 

[greenhawk]

And keep in mind that this was Japan, where a skinny, dark, ugly, middle-aged Indian guy making 250k/month is probably near the very bottom of the desirability totem pole.

And yet, every single weekend when we would hit the izakaya/bar/club circuit and run into this jackass, and he would be with some young-ish Japanese girl WAY out of his league, and I do believe he would tap at least a couple or three different asses a month.

Moral of the story? The single most important factor in picking up women is CONFIDENCE. Women do not want some whining loser who twiddles his thumbs, wrings his hands and cries about being lonely. Exude at least some level of confidence and the rest will work its way out.

Was he tall though? Could those women have thought he came from a wealthy family? Could those women have only been with him possibly for shits and giggles? They could have been drinking so he looked less ugly and they just wanted to be with a foreigner. Granted you could argue it is the same thing when I see an escort except the money replaces confidence or the money makes up for all of my faults. I will try to be confident, within reason, tonight when I go to a bar and we will see what happens.

 

[Frenchy]

Not bad. I wouldn't say I am overweight, working on losing some extra pounds, I don't have OCD, and my relationship with my first girlfriend was meaningful, everything else is spot on though. Years ago at Fanime a guy running the panel "nerd courting" had a really good point. He was talking about how for normal guys who go out to pick up women are looking just for sex so when they get rejected all that is lost is a sexual encounter so they move on the the next woman. For nerds when we would be interested in a woman we want a relationship so we start to imagine more then just sex. We imagine having a relationship with said woman and imagining all of these things that we want to happen, thus when we are rejected or find out we can't date her it hurts a lot more because that entire romantic fantasy we have just created in our head is never going to be. Mean while that guy at the bar who just got rejected by a random attractive woman just lost a sexual encounter and that is it so he moves on to the next woman.

I tend to only focus on one woman at a time time. I meet a woman, want to date her, use whatever opportunities I can to talk to her and get to know her, try to find out if she is single, find out she has a boyfriend, move on to the next. Even when I tried online dating I would usually only message one woman at a time and wait until the woman I was messaging stopped replying before moving on to another. People told me to send out multiple messages at once which I did later on, but to me it just felt more productive to focus on one woman at a time. I won't do drugs, but provided Chivas Regal isn't too strong I might try a shot tonight.




I actually have very low expectations if you can believe it. As long as she isn't unattractive, wants to have kids, gets along with me, and hates Disney I am good lol. I am not interested in dating gaijin women, but if I go for the lonely women in a group of friends what if it becomes obvious what I am doing and she or her friends mention it? Do I acknowledge it? Play it off comically?

Probably hard to believe but I was like you...
Until I got married and became miserable with « The One » . Not to say that its impossible though. All relationships are different.

Im not sure the « try hundreds of times and get vaccinated against rejections » type of advice is that relevant for you.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting just vanilla ice-cream , not the whole Baskin Robbins selection (most of which tastes bad, by the way).
If you’re into feelings more than sex then my 2 yen advice would be to meet women with the same passions and talk right away about the geeky stuff in fact (i know, lots of contradictory advices here...)
Anime conventions, games shows, nerds clubs ... i dunno , im not very familiar with that scene

But don’t forget to show interest for HER too, relatively clearly and quickly once you broke the ice.

 

[BB0523]

Most people have replied on what you need to do... the question is what can you do ? Most people have something to offer (i'm an optimist) so what can only you offer women ? Once you find that out then that's your "in" for going up to a woman to ask her out... your comments about waiting 6 months or longer ? Makes no sense at all.... Have you ever heard the phrase "Your first and lasting impression is made 30 seconds after you meet someone"...... that's it.. You need to be more "ALPHA" male... my 2 yen worth.. good luck, and your friend that is dating Keiko is a true friend... He told you about them dating rather than you finding out in a different way, better to keep him as a friend and forget about Keiko... Maybe talk to your friend and see if Keiko has any friends she can intro to you... Ask your friend... then it helps you with your intro to the girl....

 

[greenhawk]

Again, you are being way too serious about this whole thing. It is the first step and you are not going to propose having a baby with her (at least I hope so) but you are proposing to have coffee, drinks, dinner, whatever with her.

The point of asking if she would like to go out with you is to be able to find out if there is anything between you two. And no, there won't ever be if you don't ask her out first.

So those 3 women I mentioned earlier that I am into and have known them for 5 months and see them once a week, it is ok to ask one of them out to coffee at the cafe next to the station? I am going to that school for sports day at the end of the month and afterwards everyone goes to yakiniku so I was thinking use sports day to interact with them a bit more, like I did with the star festival, and then try to sit by one at dinner and get an idea if she is interested in me by the end of the night and then ask her out later if I am able to get her LINE.

 

[Keihan]

I appreciate the thought, but I didn't consider anything anyone was saying towards me to be toxic though. I was expecting harsh answers when I posted this.

You know what? You're a good sport. And you're obviously looking for constructive criticism. Seriously, the more I read your posts the more you remind me of all my emo-music friends from 20 years ago. Be honest, you're a big Weezer fan??

I think the single most important thing you need to do is let go of this "soulmate" concept you build for yourself because you let it ruin your prospects. Just because you identify some female, and "wish" that one to be the end-all-be-all, guess what? About 99% of the time, it ain't gonna end up that way. I remember being 15 and spinning up future fantasies about some girl I was infatuated with, but then I turned 16 and realized it was better to just stick my dick in the uglier ones that were willing and play it by ear from there. Get out there, get social, get talking. I'm not the greatest looking guy on earth and I have a nasty habit and history of getting loaded and sticking my dingaling in some decidedly undesirable crevices but I'm an old man now and my current other half is far prettier and more pleasant than I deserve and you know how I made that happen? I am 110% capable of striking up a conversation with just about anyone and I'm a gifted bullshit artist. Get out there, get social, get talking. The introvert finishes last, every time.

And SERIOUSLY, the entire point of online dating sites is to toss out as many hooks as possible and see what you catch. Focusing on one individual is a fucking obscene waste of time and money. Been there, done that. You are there to FISH, and that means initiating chats with as many girls as possible at the same time. That may hurt your emo sensibilities, but that's how the online dating game works.

This is the very, very first time I've ever suggested this (see the thread where we roasted Ricky Martin for his gay nanpa offer) but look for a friend that's more socially-adept than yourself...a "wingman," if you will, and I fucking hate that concept...and go prowl the bars together. You're obviously an introvert, so find an extrovert who's a little more in-tune with the bar scene and ask him to help you. Believe it or not, there will be groups of females at gaijin bars which will facilitate your extrovert gaijin friend in hooking up with some extrovert gaijin-hunting J-skank, and that girl just may have a more introverted, reserved friend tagging along at the bar that he or she can introduce you to.

Again, I profiled you as an insecure individual with a tendency to overly self-reflect, whine and focus on negatives. I hate to introduce politics into this but in this case I think this is warranted. One of the most valuable lessons I learned as a political operator is that the general public does not want to hear negative talking points. They don't want to hear why a candidate sucks. They don't want to hear about why a candidate has a shitty plan. They want to hear about what YOU are going to do better, why YOUR plan is better and what positive difference YOU are going to make. Likewise, a girl a bar doesn't want to hear about your past woes, or why your life sucks, or why you've had a hard time with A., B or C.

They want to know what you're excited about. What you're optimistic about. What your plans for the future are and why you're looking forward to the next year. And if you play that right, they'll be able to picture themselves in that plan with you and THEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE.

Again, focus on the positive, shut the fuck up about negatives. No matter what the situation, if you come into it with a negative, defeatist attitude you WILL FAIL. And as dim-witted as 99% of Japanese females are, they can smell a predisposed loser. That's a skill most women have and they utilize it without mercy.

And get some coke while you're at it.

 

[greenhawk]

Really? Only a week? I would have been willing to ask her out maybe 2 months after knowing her, but didn't want to make the women feel uncomfortable or put them in an awkward position so I figured better to wait. If insurance paid for a therapist then my company would know and also I think it would be a waste of money too. Anime, manga, and video games are my natural hobbies though, but I guess I will just have to learn to talk about other things I like. I appreciate the advice though and it has helped. Yes I am a late bloomer too. Didn't get my first girlfriend until 21 and she was my first everything. Prior my only experience was dancing with girls in PE class, teaching slow dancing to some Japanese exchange students, and 1 Japanese exchange student holding my hand as we walked around San Francisco on a field trip.

 

[MikeH]

So those 3 women I mentioned earlier that I am into and have known them for 5 months and see them once a week, it is ok to ask one of them out to coffee at the cafe next to the station?

You are confusing me my young friend. I already started to answer twice and then deleted everything. I am just now going to assume that was actually a serious question and answer to that. If instead you made the post in jester and are now laughing your ass out with your buddies while downing serious amounts of Asahi Super Dry I am old enough to take that laughter and ridicule.

If you are thinking one of these girls will become your girlfriend, mother to your babies and the love of your life then NO, it's not OK to ask them for coffee now. Because that ship has sailed already; by waiting that long everyone of these girls has now labeled you as either gay or just not interested in them.

If you are interested in someone why don't ask her for a coffee the first time you meet? You can't you say? Why? If you meet an interesting guy and want to talk with him wouldn't you ask him to sit down for a beer? If someone, girl or a boy, would ask you the same what would you do? Be flattered and then say yes or no, right? Guess what, the girl you are asking is doing the same.

If she says yes then go and have a cup of coffee and find out what she is really like. If she says no then you know and can move on. Problem solved.

Now bookmark this post and come back to visit it in few years. I am pretty sure you also will be baffled by your own question by then.

 

[Frenchy]

You are confusing me my young friend. I already started to answer twice and then deleted everything. I am just now going to assume that was actually a serious question and answer to that. If instead you made the post in jester and are now laughing your ass out with your buddies while downing serious amounts of Asahi Super Dry I am old enough to take that laughter and ridicule.

If you are thinking one of these girls will become your girlfriend, mother to your babies and the love of your life then NO, it's not OK to ask them for coffee now. Because that ship has sailed already; by waiting that long everyone of these girls has now labeled you as either gay or just not interested in them.

If you are interested in someone why don't ask her for a coffee the first time you meet? You can't you say? Why? If you meet an interesting guy and want to talk with him wouldn't you ask him to sit down for a beer? If someone, girl or a boy, would ask you the same what would you do? Be flattered and then say yes or no, right? Guess what, the girl you are asking is doing the same.

If she says yes then go and have a cup of coffee and find out what she is really like. If she says no then you know and can move on. Problem solved.

Now bookmark this post and come back to visit it in few years. I am pretty sure you also will be baffled by your own question by then.

I disagree, he can still ask the 3 girls for a coffee and try to go deeper, what’s to lose?
Maybe not inviting them all together though...
I had a girl asking me out after 1 full year of basically pretending there’s nothing and making fun of me , ok that was in high school but still.

 

[MikeH]

I disagree, he can still ask the 3 girls for a coffee and try to go deeper, what’s to lose?

I think you stopped reading after the NO.

He can ask my cat for a date, nothing to lose there either. But as I implied if he is just looking for a coffee it's of course OK to ask anyone. I would ask you for a beer, no problems. But I also wouldn't expect you to have my baby later.

What I am saying is he earlier said his hit rate is around 3%. Now waiting that long he has diminished that to less than one tenth of that with these girls.

 

[Sudsy]

How long would you say I should wait before asking a woman out then? Do I need to worry about any prerequisite or can I just go for it if I feel comfortable? I have saw a therapist over a decade ago, but no way I am going to bother with that here due to the social stigma and I think I feel be fine. A therapist would probably just repeat everything all of you have told me anyway.

When I was single, I’d ask a woman out in a heartbeat - the whole point of “dating” is to figure out if you like ‘em or not.

As to your mental state - you just wrote an angst-filled novel because a guy started dating a woman you didn’t show interest in. You’re pretty clearly less than OK.

Give counseling a try.

 

[Acid Burn]

What if I invite a girl to coffee and she says yes, but it isn't enthusiastic? Am I supposed to act like we are still going to meet even though we both know we aren't?

Who said she wasn’t gonna meet? Until you’re stood up, don’t just make up that assumption.

I don't know if there are any meet ups for people who like anime, video games, and manga near me, but I guess I can look into it.

Comiket. Animate. Book store. You don’t need a specific meet up gettogether to meet someone specific. That girl that just whooped your ass in Fortnite, ask her out. My friend did that and got a girlfriend that way.

I would say I am comfortable in my own skin, just very realistic.

Not realistic. Insecure and negative about yourself is what you sound like.

Was he tall though? Could those women have thought he came from a wealthy family? Could those women have only been with him possibly for shits and giggles? They could have been drinking so he looked less ugly and they just wanted to be with a foreigner

When you see a guy and girl together, do you think that of the guy too? Is he only with her because she’s <150cm? Is he with her only because she’s pretty? Could he be with her because of her big beasts? Small chest? Eww, maybe he’s drunk that’s why he’s talking to the ugly girl? That ugly chick must be wild in bed for that guy to want to be with her.
Maybe. Or maybe they just get along well and enjoy each other’s company together.

How long would you say I should wait before asking a woman out then?

First meeting. Maybe a week. A couple months is too late IMO. There’s a small window before you’re friend zoned where you’re able to ask them out. Afterwards it gets more difficult.

Do I need to worry about any prerequisite

No.

or can I just go for it if I feel comfortable?

Yes, you can just go for it. No, don’t wait until you’re comfortable. Your comfort with her seems to take too long.

For nerds when we would be interested in a woman we want a relationship so we start to imagine more then just sex.

No, this is not just nerds. You’re dragging us nerds down with that comment. Stop fixating on just one.

We imagine having a relationship with said woman and imagining all of these things that we want to happen, thus when we are rejected or find out we can't date her it hurts a lot more because that entire romantic fantasy we have just created in our head is never going to be.

You can imagine all that after you ask her out.

I tend to only focus on one woman at a time time. I meet a woman, want to date her, use whatever opportunities I can to talk to her and get to know her, try to find out if she is single, find out she has a boyfriend, move on to the next.

You just described the first day you met the girl. Not the first 6 months.

if I go for the lonely women in a group of friends what if it becomes obvious what I am doing and she or her friends mention it? Do I acknowledge it? Play it off comically?

Don’t acknowledge it or play it off. How would you like it if some chick told you she was only talking with you because she knows she can’t get your younger hotter taller friend. Kind of mean right. You know, they may actually be happy that their lonely introvert friend is getting talked to.
^ this. You don’t have to tell people you’re in therapy.
OP, do you watch regular TV shows? Movies? Netflix? Do you travel? There’s other things to talk about. Also, what kind of anime? Is it mainstream?

So those 3 women I mentioned earlier that I am into and have known them for 5 months and see them once a week, it is ok to ask one of them out to coffee at the cafe next to the station? I am going to that school for sports day at the end of the month and afterwards everyone goes to yakiniku so I was thinking use sports day to interact with them a bit more, like I did with the star festival, and then try to sit by one at dinner and get an idea if she is interested in me by the end of the night and then ask her out later if I am able to get her LINE.

Ask her out and then get her LINE.

Be honest, you're a big Weezer fan??

Hey! Nothing wrong with Wheezer!!

I am 110% capable of striking up a conversation with just about anyone and I'm a gifted bullshit artist. Get out there, get social, get talking. The introvert finishes last, every time.

Unless the introvert finds the extrovert who everyone can’t stand because that extrovert just doesn’t shut up. Sometimes that works out too. Lol.

the whole point of “dating” is to figure out if you like ‘em or not.

^ this. OP, did you get that? Date to figure out if you like them. You don’t have to determine if you want to spend your life with her before asking her out. Ask right when you want to get to know her better. Which is very early on.

OP, in the words of the famous Nike... JUST DO IT!!!! Stop thinking so much and just do it.

 

[Frenchy]

I think you stopped reading after the NO.

He can ask my cat for a date, nothing to lose there either. But as I implied if he is just looking for a coffee it's of course OK to ask anyone. I would ask you for a beer, no problems. But I also wouldn't expect you to have my baby later.

What I am saying is he earlier said his hit rate is around 3%. Now waiting that long he has diminished that to less than one tenth of that with these girls.

This is where I disagree... some ladies may prefer to know the guy for a long time before getting more serious, thus he may (or may not) have more chances now than 5 months ago

 

[MikeH]

This is where I disagree... some ladies may prefer to know the guy for a long time before getting more serious, thus he may (or may not) have more chances now than 5 months ago

Sure, but how does she get to know him if they never go out to get that coffee? If she is working in the same building and you greet her once per week that does not constitute knowing for a long time in my book. That just constitutes five month period of missed chances of asking her for a coffee.

 

[Lasagna]

sted

How long would you say I should wait before asking a woman out then? Do I need to worry about any prerequisite or can I just go for it if I feel comfortable? I have saw a therapist over a decade ago, but no way I am going to bother with that here due to the social stigma and I think I feel be fine. A therapist would probably just repeat everything all of you have told me anyway.

You don't have to wait at all. Infact these days women have infinite options with dating apps like Tinder making it so easy. So personally I would make a move TODAY before someone else snatches her away. (wow that rhymes I could be a rapper?!)

Making a move doesn't make you a pervert/creep/predator/whatever you tell yourself. I guess you have been conditioned wrong due to past rejection. It's a self-limiting belief used as a coping mechanism to not having to make a move.

Making a move shows

1) confidence
2) taking initiave
3) adventurous

all 3 nice qualities to have.

In short:
1) Grow a dick
2) Ask women out
3) Repeat step 2 until it becomes natural

Next year you will laugh at your own sob story

 

[Lasagna]

I don't give a shit what your friends from the high school chess club told you. Women don't want a whining, insecure pussy who bleats on about his feelings and cries like a fucking adolescent girl. What can you do? Marlon Brando put it well: "YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN."

Oh my god I choked in my drink when I read this. Write a book with your life experiences. I'd buy it

 

[MikeH]

Oh my god I choked in my drink when I read this.

Though he obviously has no real life experience of the high school chess clubs. We didn't talk women, we talked chess. I mean at least we had experience with that.

 

[Frenchy]

Sure, but how does she get to know him if they never go out to get that coffee? If she is working in the same building and you greet her once per week that does not constitute knowing for a long time in my book. That just constitutes five month period of missed chances of asking her for a coffee.

Not sure how much they know of each other , but thats not really my point : whether you just say hi to someone in an elevator for months or have been best pals for years, there is no automatic rule saying that past a given consumption date your chances of hooking up decrease. Or increase, for that matter. Having said that we are all mortals so yes, probably better to not wait till 80 year old either

 

[Lasagna]

Not sure how much they know of each other , but thats not really my point : whether you just say hi to someone in an elevator for months or have been best pals for years, there is no automatic rule saying that past a given consumption date your chances of hooking up decrease. Or increase, for that matter. Having said that we are all mortals so yes, probably better to not wait till 80 year old either

The longer you wait the higher chance she puts you in the friendzone.