Acceptable level of exciting flirtation in the office

[BankerguyCanada]

I have some info from my own life that might resonate well In this thread.

I manage a team of seven, four of which are female (all are in their 20's, and i'm 5 to 9 years older than them).

They all have their own level of day to day "flirtatious-ness" actions (for lack of a better word). One is very to the point, distant, business, professional. Almost too much where she seems cold.
The other is friendly, personal, no touching but smiling and just generally friendly. She'd give me a hug if it was my birthday but not on a day to day type basis. The third one is like the second one but more physical contact, random high 5's, puts her hand on my shoulder / back while i'm sitting and she's standing both looking at a monitor. If the whole team meet up after work for a drink she'd give me a hug . (I understand long-time no see hugs....but its not like I don't see her everyday.... we work together).ugh.. she's a little TOO MUCH, but not to the point where its weird.
The fourth one... this was trouble. She's from Taiwan. Been living here in Toronto for about 2 years. I'm not sure if she felt that it was her JOB to be super flirty, or this is normal in Taiwan?, or maybe she just liked/likes me ...not sure, but she would cross the line, openly in front of the other three girls and 3 guys (who are not flirty at all with me lol).
Like, she'd come up behind me while i'm sitting and rub my shoulders, once she sat on my lap! I always joke it off loudly so everyone can hear....I do it in a way where the other 6 see that i'm kind of uncomfortable but also sensitive to not embarrass her. I'm pretty sure the other 6 think "she's either a slut or just thinks that's the way to move up and get a promotion". I'm fairly confident that none of the 6 other staff that work for me think that i'm at all a predator in the office.

Anyways, as a people manager, i'm comfortable with how I described the first three women I work with in terms of how close they are to me (in terms of being flirty). The fourth one is too much and it could lead to trouble if you don't handle it well. Essentially her actions represent an element of risk ...employment sexual harassment is insanely frowned upon in Canada and you can lose your job in a second.

 

[Durg50]

I have some info from my own life that might resonate well In this thread.

I manage a team of seven, four of which are female (all are in their 20's, and i'm 5 to 9 years older than them).

They all have their own level of day to day "flirtatious-ness" actions (for lack of a better word). One is very to the point, distant, business, professional. Almost too much where she seems cold.
The other is friendly, personal, no touching but smiling and just generally friendly. She'd give me a hug if it was my birthday but not on a day to day type basis. The third one is like the second one but more physical contact, random high 5's, puts her hand on my shoulder / back while i'm sitting and she's standing both looking at a monitor. If the whole team meet up after work for a drink she'd give me a hug . (I understand long-time no see hugs....but its not like I don't see her everyday.... we work together).ugh.. she's a little TOO MUCH, but not to the point where its weird.
The fourth one... this was trouble. She's from Taiwan. Been living here in Toronto for about 2 years. I'm not sure if she felt that it was her JOB to be super flirty, or this is normal in Taiwan?, or maybe she just liked/likes me ...not sure, but she would cross the line, openly in front of the other three girls and 3 guys (who are not flirty at all with me lol).
Like, she'd come up behind me while i'm sitting and rub my shoulders, once she sat on my lap! I always joke it off loudly so everyone can hear....I do it in a way where the other 6 see that i'm kind of uncomfortable but also sensitive to not embarrass her. I'm pretty sure the other 6 think "she's either a slut or just thinks that's the way to move up and get a promotion". I'm fairly confident that none of the 6 other staff that work for me think that i'm at all a predator in the office.

Anyways, as a people manager, i'm comfortable with how I described the first three women I work with in terms of how close they are to me (in terms of being flirty). The fourth one is too much and it could lead to trouble if you don't handle it well. Essentially her actions represent an element of risk ...employment sexual harassment is insanely frowned upon in Canada and you can lose your job in a second.

Unless you officially tell her to stop doing that and report her actions to HR, you are the one that is at risk of getting fired here.

Imagine 6 months down the line, she hasnt got the promotion she was hoping for, in fact maybe its going the other way and she is missing targets etc, as her manager you have to have some difficult conversations about performance, maybe even an official reprimand or warning.... she sees the writing on the wall, she will be out of a job soon, will need money.... Ok she thinks, im going to stay home today, call HR and tell them I dont feel comfortable being managed by bankerguycanada, “it started 6 months ago when he was touching me a lot in the office, he even asked me to sit on his lap once, it was really awkward but he’s my boss and older than me and i felt like i had too, because the other team members who DONT get performance warnings are always touching him, i often see him hugging them after a few drinks at work events.” ***starts crying, asks if dhe can speak to a lawyer, mentions harvey weinstein***

HR freak out, it looks terrible for them if a manager is accused of sexual harrasment. They pull you in and ask for your story:
Hr: did you ask miss x to sit on your lap in the office?
Bgc: no
Hr: did she?
Bcg: yes but i didnt ask her to and i made it clear i wasnt comfortable
Hr: how? This was not reported to your direct manager or us at the time.

Its now your word against hers. As the older male in a position of authority in this climate, no company on earth is going to take your side.

Your company will pay her off to stop legal proceedings using the money they save from your salary and bonus.

 

[Yuriko]

Unless you officially tell her to stop doing that and report her actions to HR, you are the one that is at risk of getting fired here.

Imagine 6 months down the line, she hasnt got the promotion she was hoping for, in fact maybe its going the other way and she is missing targets etc, as her manager you have to have some difficult conversations about performance, maybe even an official reprimand or warning.... she sees the writing on the wall, she will be out of a job soon, will need money.... Ok she thinks, im going to stay home today, call HR and tell them I dont feel comfortable being managed by bankerguycanada, “it started 6 months ago when he was touching me a lot in the office, he even asked me to sit on his lap once, it was really awkward but he’s my boss and older than me and i felt like i had too, because the other team members who DONT get performance warnings are always touching him, i often see him hugging them after a few drinks at work events.” ***starts crying, asks if dhe can speak to a lawyer, mentions harvey weinstein***

HR freak out, it looks terrible for them if a manager is accused of sexual harrasment. They pull you in and ask for your story:
Hr: did you ask miss x to sit on your lap in the office?
Bgc: no
Hr: did she?
Bcg: yes but i didnt ask her to and i made it clear i wasnt comfortable
Hr: how? This was not reported to your direct manager or us at the time.

Its now your word against hers. As the older male in a position of authority in this climate, no company on earth is going to take your side.

Your company will pay her off to stop legal proceedings using the money they save from your salary and bonus.

Hey, you're taking too seriously. This is just the forum. It's not the place to warn someone significantly, by your knowledge feed satisfaction. Take it easy. He didn't ask you for an advice. Don't get too much detailed into others life. Just enjoy, lightly. But, I'd I agree to small extent by better report HR to warn that lady to stop behaving that way, as she's making him very uncomfortable.

I have some info from my own life that might resonate well In this thread.

I manage a team of seven, four of which are female (all are in their 20's, and i'm 5 to 9 years older than them).

They all have their own level of day to day "flirtatious-ness" actions (for lack of a better word). One is very to the point, distant, business, professional. Almost too much where she seems cold.
The other is friendly, personal, no touching but smiling and just generally friendly. She'd give me a hug if it was my birthday but not on a day to day type basis. The third one is like the second one but more physical contact, random high 5's, puts her hand on my shoulder / back while i'm sitting and she's standing both looking at a monitor. If the whole team meet up after work for a drink she'd give me a hug . (I understand long-time no see hugs....but its not like I don't see her everyday.... we work together).ugh.. she's a little TOO MUCH, but not to the point where its weird.
The fourth one... this was trouble. She's from Taiwan. Been living here in Toronto for about 2 years. I'm not sure if she felt that it was her JOB to be super flirty, or this is normal in Taiwan?, or maybe she just liked/likes me ...not sure, but she would cross the line, openly in front of the other three girls and 3 guys (who are not flirty at all with me lol).
Like, she'd come up behind me while i'm sitting and rub my shoulders, once she sat on my lap! I always joke it off loudly so everyone can hear....I do it in a way where the other 6 see that i'm kind of uncomfortable but also sensitive to not embarrass her. I'm pretty sure the other 6 think "she's either a slut or just thinks that's the way to move up and get a promotion". I'm fairly confident that none of the 6 other staff that work for me think that i'm at all a predator in the office.

Anyways, as a people manager, i'm comfortable with how I described the first three women I work with in terms of how close they are to me (in terms of being flirty). The fourth one is too much and it could lead to trouble if you don't handle it well. Essentially her actions represent an element of risk ...employment sexual harassment is insanely frowned upon in Canada and you can lose your job in a second.

Thanks for sharing an interesting work life story! Wow, it did resonate well with my topic.I guess the matter of how much you control in flirting, is the key. You got an interesting combination out there!! Wonder how your males suordinates think of you being th your team kingdom!

My boss looks at me quite often, sensing used to be an "Alpha" guy. I guess he's happy the fact that I'm his PA and doing my role pretty well. Bright, stylish, goal oriented, feminine, Going meeting together, to the other group corp. I do corp rate negotiation, some office errands, are in my hand. I'm happy being like a healer in the office. Once guys come back to the office and feel relaxed. I'm happy.

in my experience, getting lunch with work colleague(s) is common, but it is just for socializing. Strictly platonic. and of course everyone pays for their own stuff in the end...

Yes, indeed!! I go lunch quite often with my colleagues. It's fun.

Note the company you keep around TAG.
It would behove you to gel with us common folk.

That said ... I don’t get to pick my PA. She’s assigned to me by our godly head of PA’s and I’m stuck with her for however long. She’s not super attractive but she’s damn good at what she does. So, that’s good enough for me. I have enough new grads to last me for the year. All a combination of hot, cute, gnd and just plain.

Personally, I prefer a Japanese female who’s had a western education or experience and gets my jokes, terrible wit and pop culture junk.

Interesting. But, I guess the work performance is much important to you. You get eye candy by new grads? That's nice. The offices I work recently are mostly by experienced professionals. I don't see guys in 20's, early 30's, but only a rare case. I guess, if you pick your own type PA, you get intruded by being sociable chat pretty often!

 

[Sudsy]

Unless you officially tell her to stop doing that and report her actions to HR, you are the one that is at risk of getting fired here.

Yep, @BankerguyCanada - you need to document this behaviour before it comes back to bite you in the ass. Even if no action is taken, you need it on record that you have noted the behaviour and objected to it.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Hey, you're taking too seriously. This is just the forum. It's not the place to warn someone significantly, by your knowledge feed satisfaction. Take it easy. He didn't ask you for an advice. Don't get too much detailed into others life. Just enjoy, lightly. But, I'd I agree to small extent by better report HR to warn that lady to stop behaving that way, as she's making him very uncomfortable.

Why do you feel the need to tell people how to post on a forum?

 

[vargas]

Yep, @BankerguyCanada - you need to document this behaviour before it comes back to bite you in the ass. Even if no action is taken, you need it on record that you have noted the behaviour and objected to it.

Ugh, really sucks that there are situations where this is the correct move. Isn’t reporting her to HR going to result in a negative mark on her record?

If it was me, I’d take her aside and explain as nicely as possible why her behavior could result in problems with HR. Odds are she has zero intention of causing any problems and wouldn’t blame a lack of promotion on you. Seriously, fuck this dehumanizing corporate automaton bullshit. We’re talking about people not “resources”.

 

[Sudsy]

If it was me, I’d take her aside and explain as nicely as possible why her behavior could result in problems with HR.

That would have worked if it had been done early on.

It's been ongoing for some time, so he's in a (potentially) bigger hole, requiring a commensurately larger amount of fill.

These sorts of behaviours need to be addressed quickly if you want to avoid HR involvement.

Isn’t reporting her to HR going to result in a negative mark on her record?

Not necessarily. Just having the interaction and objection recorded on record isn't necessarily a big deal as long as no disciplinary action is requested or taken, and to be honest, this sort of thing is rarely taken all that seriously when originating from female staffers, particularly subordinates. It's more for his protection should she go Fatal Attraction down the line.

 

[Durg50]

Ugh, really sucks that there are situations where this is the correct move. Isn’t reporting her to HR going to result in a negative mark on her record?

If it was me, I’d take her aside and explain as nicely as possible why her behavior could result in problems with HR. Odds are she has zero intention of causing any problems and wouldn’t blame a lack of promotion on you. Seriously, fuck this dehumanizing corporate automaton bullshit. We’re talking about people not “resources”.

Yes it sucks. But if she is the kind of person that sits on her bosses lap in the office (seriously wtf?) then Id wager that she also would potentially be the kind of person that would take the hypothetical course of action I listed above.

 

[vargas]

Just having the interaction and objection recorded on record isn't necessarily a big deal as long as no disciplinary action is requested or taken, and to be honest, this sort of thing is rarely taken all that seriously when originating from female staffers, particularly subordinates. It's more for his protection should she go Fatal Attraction down the line.

That’s good to know! Perhaps if you were my HR rep I’d reconsider, but making it an arbitrary choice for HR to pursue disciplinary action or not isn’t something I’d take lightly.

Yes it sucks. But if she is the kind of person that sits on her bosses lap in the office (seriously wtf?) then Id wager that she also would potentially be the kind of person that would take the hypothetical course of action I listed above.

Not in my experience. I’ve known some women like this and they were nice genuine people who liked men and enjoyed flirting. Maybe they liked male attention a bit too much but they certainly had no evil intentions.

The nasty, shrill, harpy sort of women who hate men and are always looking for a chance to screw one over are pretty easy to spot.

 

[Durg50]

That’s good to know! Perhaps if you were my HR rep I’d reconsider, but making it an arbitrary choice for HR to pursue disciplinary action or not isn’t something I’d take lightly.



Not in my experience. I’ve known some women like this and they were nice genuine people who liked men and enjoyed flirting. Maybe they liked male attention a bit too much but they certainly had no evil intentions.

The nasty, shrill, harpy sort of women who hate men and are always looking for a chance to screw one over are pretty easy to spot.

Yeah, nice people can turn nasty though....

 

[just4fun]

The nasty, shrill, harpy sort of women who hate men and are always looking for a chance to screw one over are pretty easy to spot.

I was working in an office here in Tokyo several years ago and there was a group of older office ladies all working at their desks when I would arrive. I would always say "good morning girls" when I arrived and they would all giggle and smile and say good morning back except this one. One morning I said it and she spoke up and said "We are not girls, we are women". The whole place got so quiet you could hear a pin drop. Later that day I snuck out to have a smoke and one of the other office workers came out and apologized to me for what she said. She said that it's nice to be called a girl even though they are older. Makes her feel good inside. The next day when I went in I said "good morning girls and good morning woman" and just kept walking. So during my lunch break smoke this old bat came out to the smoking area and asked me why I said that. I said it was what you asked to convey. She said she didn't like it. I told her don't listen then. Needless to say, she went to the bosses and whined about me. The boss called me into his office and asked me what was going on. I told him the exact truth. He said that she has been with the company for along time and she deserves respect. I replied. I say good morning to everyone. I don't leave her out. I'm showing her respect. I also asked him how much money she makes for this company. She was transferred 2 weeks later.

 

[vargas]

Yeah, nice people can turn nasty though....

That’s true, although it usually takes a while and requires many bad things happen to them.

Can definitely understand a man (or woman) going to HR immediately to protect themselves because their career at ShittyCorpX is important and irreplaceable. Particularly if this happens in some shitty place like Canada or the US where political correctness has been weaponized and men and women are actively at war with each other.

One of the women I mentioned above had this thing where, whenever the company hired a new guy, she’d be all over him at every chance. Holding his arm when asking him for help, sitting on laps at nomikai, wearing very inappropriate clothing, etc. She was very unattractive so all the guys just put up with it, but I don’t think anyone was offended or felt the need to complain to HR. This was in Japan and everyone knew her behavior there was no need.

Another woman was very attractive and she’d always have a guy or two she’d flirt with excessively after a drink. Always talking about something related to sex, rubbing her body on him, etc. I’m sure it made a few guys jealous they weren’t picked, but again it didn’t cause any actual problems so what’s the harm?

 

[Sudsy]

Perhaps if you were my HR rep I’d reconsider, but making it an arbitrary choice for HR to pursue disciplinary action or not isn’t something I’d take lightly.

Remember - HR people never want to create any more work for themselves than they have to.

 

[TheScientist]

Unless you officially tell her to stop doing that and report her actions to HR, you are the one that is at risk of getting fired here.

Allow me to join in the chorus of I AGREE WITH THIS

Needless to say, she went to the bosses and whined about me.

Theres always one like that and they can make your life hell.

 

[Yuriko]

Why do you feel the need to tell people how to post on a forum?

I was pointed out by someone like that in the past. Why can't I? Some people have attacky nature. It's TMI anyway to be judgemental.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I was pointed out by someone like that in the past. Why can't I? Some people have attacky nature. It's TMI anyway to be judgemental.

Sorry but I’m having difficulty understanding what you mean.

Someone claimed the same thing against you in the past? Is that it? So your rationale is that because some one did it to you in the past it is ok for you to do it too?

I don’t have an “attacky” nature, but I have issues with your arguement.

“It’s tmi anyway to be judgemental” .. don’t get that at all.

But your original post is way more judgemental than I would ever do.

You say people with “low morality” and “low iq” act on Office flirtations. That’s total bullshit, and a huge judgement on your part.

It implies that you don’t act on Office flirtations cos you have a superior morality and higher IQ.
Sorry but that is bollocks!

 

[Yuriko]

Sorry but I’m having difficulty understanding what you mean.

Someone claimed the same thing against you in the past? Is that it? So your rationale is that because some one did it to you in the past it is ok for you to do it too?

I don’t have an “attacky” nature, but I have issues with your arguement.

“It’s tmi anyway to be judgemental” .. don’t get that at all.

But your original post is way more judgemental than I would ever do.

You say people with “low morality” and “low iq” act on Office flirtations. That’s total bullshit, and a huge judgement on your part.

It implies that you don’t act on Office flirtations cos you have a superior morality and higher IQ.
Sorry but that is bollocks!

Don't judge me, as you haven't met me. And it's more or less, it's my thread. I want it to be fun and refreshing, not judgemental and attack others for the other being. That's bollocks!

 

[jhingy567]

Lol. relax everyone...

tmi =too much information?
Maybe Yuriko means tli (too little information)??

 

[Yuriko]

Lol. relax everyone...

tmi =too much information?
Maybe Yuriko means tli (too little information)??

Thank you!!!
Yes, please. I'm not asking for serious discussion here...make it fun, please. Not too serious...
Thanks.

 

[Yuriko]

That’s true, although it usually takes a while and requires many bad things happen to them.

Can definitely understand a man (or woman) going to HR immediately to protect themselves because their career at ShittyCorpX is important and irreplaceable. Particularly if this happens in some shitty place like Canada or the US where political correctness has been weaponized and men and women are actively at war with each other.

One of the women I mentioned above had this thing where, whenever the company hired a new guy, she’d be all over him at every chance. Holding his arm when asking him for help, sitting on laps at nomikai, wearing very inappropriate clothing, etc. She was very unattractive so all the guys just put up with it, but I don’t think anyone was offended or felt the need to complain to HR. This was in Japan and everyone knew her behavior there was no need.

Another woman was very attractive and she’d always have a guy or two she’d flirt with excessively after a drink. Always talking about something related to sex, rubbing her body on him, etc. I’m sure it made a few guys jealous they weren’t picked, but again it didn’t cause any actual problems so what’s the harm?

That's an interesting contrast. Haha, that happenened in Japan? Sorry abt that...but such an interesting stories! I guess, the way how you handle filrt, make the difference. I'm happy, by getting an attention, just wearing my escort chanel red lip sticks lightly for sometimes, he notices it, Keep it at harmless level, is good enough,I guess. So, this was something that I expect on this thread. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Don't judge me, as you haven't met me. And it's more or less, it's my thread. I want it to be fun and refreshing, not judgemental and attack others for the other being. That's bollocks!

Yuriko, there is so much wrong with this post I had trouble finding a reply. And everything I thought of would just lead to an escalation.

So all I’ve got to say is Have a great day today.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

I had sex with my boss in Beijing. She was a single, hot and lonely Chinese woman. It made things awkward as hell afterward (only my situation), so I ended up changing jobs about 2 weeks later lol.

 

[jhingy567]

I had sex with my boss in Beijing. She was a single, hot and lonely Chinese woman. It made things awkward as hell afterward (only my situation), so I ended up changing jobs about 2 weeks later lol.

Did you nampa her..? Or did she come and sit on your lap or something?

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Did you nampa her..? Or did she come and sit on your lap or something?

It started out for the first month or so with us talking after work and her asking me if I'm going home. When I said I was going to go to a restaurant, she would say let's go together, I will treat you.

Due to her being my boss, I assumed it was a cultural thing, but after talking with her and spending more time with her, I realized she liked me and wasn't taking out the other English teachers to dinner.

I told her to add me on Wechat and I ended up calling her one day to meet up. She had sex with me at my apartment. The problem was she had a change of heart about it the next day. She kept saying it was a mistake and it was unprofessional, which I can agree with but can't complain about lol.

This wasn't a job that I liked so I don't recommend people to try sleeping with their boss or coworkers unless you really don't mind losing your job. I was planning to give my 2 weeks notice a little after we hooked up anyway. Her change of heart only sealed the deal lol.

 

[ShowaJidai]

I am very friendly in the office and always open to talking with anybody. But I swore off any flirtatious behavior decades ago.

And here's why,..

In a past work place we had a group secretary who was just a little older and divorced with a kid. We always got along really well - we were friends. One time I was with the group on a Friday night and we ended up in Karaoke. It was a small room for the number of people and she moved from where she first was seated to the space next to me- meaning that we were pressed together tightly. After a number of drinks a toilet breaks - over an hour or two - she had always come right back to the space next to me. There was quite a bit of minor flirting going on between us. So I gave her thigh a quick, light pat - and she stood up telling me not to touch her, I don't have any right to do that, etc.

It completely ruined our friendship forever. You cannot read what is going on inside a woman's head.