Any regrets?

[KnocNok]

To me the really annoying part is that pretty much everyone assumes I am doing great and that if I don't have a steady partner it's probably that I go from one girl to the other, which couldn't be further from the truth. Which is also probably why I end up being more whiny here on TAG than in real life since I can't really talk about that to anyone and that's how I vent my frustrations

Venting can be therapeutic. Although I vent less in public because I always get the same answer, "You're time will come".
TAG gives me a kind of outlet as well since I know there are family and other people I know that would disapprove of how I'm coping with my own frustrations. I'm not ashamed to use these services, in fact it's very liberating. But as long as the society I'm around keeps shunning the practice, it will remain my own personal endeavor. I don't need to gloat about it to everyone to be happy with it.

 

[Des Esseintes]

I am a bit ambivalent about p4p. I've only done it twice and both times the girl was great but afterwards I feel very empty.

 

[KnocNok]

I am a bit ambivalent about p4p. I've only done it twice and both times the girl was great but afterwards I feel very empty.

Everyone will have their own take on it and no-one will fault you on your thoughts about it. Although if you feel it may not be your thing, you shouldn't force yourself into doing something you feel is not a worthwhile event. On a positive note, if you feel it's not your thing, you can say you at least did it and found out rather than still wondering if it's right for you, but never trying it. I would rather try it and be proven wrong than never trying at all.

 

[Frenchy]

Everyone will have their own take on it and no-one will fault you on your thoughts about it. Although if you feel it may not be your thing, you shouldn't force yourself into doing something you feel is not a worthwhile event. On a positive note, if you feel it's not your thing, you can say you at least did it and found out rather than still wondering if it's right for you, but never trying it. I would rather try it and be proven wrong than never trying at all.

Yes, very true.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Everyone will have their own take on it and no-one will fault you on your thoughts about it. Although if you feel it may not be your thing, you shouldn't force yourself into doing something you feel is not a worthwhile event. On a positive note, if you feel it's not your thing, you can say you at least did it and found out rather than still wondering if it's right for you, but never trying it. I would rather try it and be proven wrong than never trying at all.

The emptiness comes from knowing that normal men get that on a regular basis from their partner/girlfriend/wife and that they can combine sex with some degree of intellectual/emotional connection.

I want to try and change my mindset so that I can be satisfied with getting through many different people what most guys get in one person. I like experiencing the world through movies and and books much better than through traveling so maybe it would only take a few more efforts of imagination for me turn sex into another form of escapism.

 

[MikeH]

The emptiness comes from knowing that normal men get that on a regular basis from their partner/girlfriend/wife

You might want to rethink that, at least the wife part. Though it is true some men get it regularly from wives it is not from their but someone else's .

Venting can be therapeutic.

It certainly can. But it can also have the reverse effect and help you dig your own hole deeper. As long as it is somewhat quick and irregular it can help you let steam off but if it becomes a normal thing then it might just drown you and make you passive.

 

[Des Esseintes]

You might want to rethink that, at least the wife part. Though it is true some men get it regularly from wives it is not from their but someone else's .

I suppose you must be right. Not having the experience of a long relationship I can only imagine what it must be like.

But recently I stayed over for a few days at some friends who have been together for 8 years and judging by the noise, they were still going at it every night. They have an open relationship so maybe that helps.

 

[owlet]

for me p4p was interesting way to spice it up but the quality of the sex was not close to what I have experienced in a committed relationship

I think i need the emotional connection piece to really enjoy sex .. It's also important to me to give pleasure.. Which is hard in p4p

also I am a cheapskate lol

 

[Wwanderer]

@KnocNok and @Des Esseintes - I obviously don't know either of you remotely well enough to really judge, but fwiiw, my impression from your last few posts in this thread is that you generalized, extrapolated and set your expectations far too strongly and quickly from a few early experiences. They then became self-fulfilling, which furthered strengthened your perception of a fixed pattern in your interactions with women. In other words, I bet the future would/could be very different for you if you could somehow forget or learn to disregard the past. This sort of "over learning" happens to people in tons of contexts, but his is a particularly sad one.

-Ww

 

[Rusty Trombone]

@KnocNok and @Des Esseintes without disclosing any personal(identifying) info, can you give some background? (Age, Ethnicity etc)

Back to the original question...
When I was still in University, I had a couple of experiences with P4P which I regretted a lot.
After I got to Japan I had no need for it until after about 12 years of marriage. After the marital sex dried up I started using P4P purely as a relief of sexual tension. At the beginning I did feel a bit regretful.
Now it is not only sexual, but also a search for some intimacy.
I started off using Pink Salons then moved into Soapies and DH services, and lately have been more into sugar relationships as my needs have evolved.

I now have no regrets, and look at my activities as a large part of keeping our marriage together for the sake of our kids.

 

[KnocNok]

@KnocNok and @Des Esseintes - I obviously don't know either of you remotely well enough to really judge, but fwiiw, my impression from your last few posts in this thread is that you generalized, extrapolated and set your expectations far too strongly and quickly from a few early experiences. They then became self-fulfilling, which furthered strengthened your perception of a fixed pattern in your interactions with women. In other words, I bet the future would/could be very different for you if you could somehow forget or learn to disregard the past. This sort of "over learning" happens to people in tons of contexts, but his is a particularly sad one.

-Ww

While I would (seriously) love to try that, an issue for me is the lack of a past. My earliest experiences were actually positive ones, but had to be given up for one reason or another, so I actually don't blame my current situation on those.
It may seem like over-learning, but I would prefer having more than enough information than too little, so I don't see it as a sad situation. While will admit I have formulated my opinion based mostly on the interactions (usually complaints) of those around me who are in relationships, that doesn't mean I have completely rejected the possibility of a relationship myself. For all I know, it could happen tomorrow. But as I mentioned, I'm not so desperate that I will risk getting into a potentially bad relationship just so I'm not alone anymore. What I am electing to do is in no way an admission of defeat, merely being patient. I will find ways of coping, and it if life has determined that is the actual true path I should take, so be it. Rest assured, I am still looking.

@KnocNok and @Des Esseintes without disclosing any personal(identifying) info, can you give some background? (Age, Ethnicity etc)

Age is kind of a awkward question for me to reply to, since few people can guess my age correctly; and I have posted elsewhere my genes are mostly Northern European (with a mix of others because that's diversity). As far as more of a background with disclosing personal stuff, not quite sure what could be added that might be relevant at the moment... :/

 

[Henry Fielding]

It is an interesting question, that of the original post. Of course, not because of the basic answer (yer or no) but because of all the implications associated to p4p.

I have engaged in p4p several times and have no remorse. However, it did change my perception of the sexual activity. Now I see it as a commodity and has lost most of its transcendental meaning, as a lack of a better word. I have no problems with that--in a sense it gives a more realistic view of what sex is. As Camille Paglia put it, "Far from poisoning the mind, pornography shows the deepest truth about sexuality, stripped of romantic veneer". Same goes for p4p.

A different story, as someone pointed out, is whether the p4p experience was gratifying or not. I wished the sex industry market was reliable, but that is far from being the case, and that is a major reason why we are here.

Des Esseintes said he had felt "very empty" after a p4p experience, and --while respecting his words-- I wonder what he meant by that. To me, it sounds like a female excuse to avoid having sex, but there might be more to it than my (shallow) understanding.

HF

 

[DocMcStuffins]

To speculate, I think he means that p4p is physically but not emotionally satisfying. Since my wife is an occasionally willing but not eager partner, I totally get that.

 

[Des Esseintes]

@KnocNok and @Des Esseintes - I obviously don't know either of you remotely well enough to really judge, but fwiiw, my impression from your last few posts in this thread is that you generalized, extrapolated and set your expectations far too strongly and quickly from a few early experiences. They then became self-fulfilling, which furthered strengthened your perception of a fixed pattern in your interactions with women. In other words, I bet the future would/could be very different for you if you could somehow forget or learn to disregard the past. This sort of "over learning" happens to people in tons of contexts, but his is a particularly sad one.

-Ww

Not a few early experiences, dozens of them. Alas, I'm not so young anymore... What got me rethinking about p4p after giving it up is this: (sorry if it's a bit long-winded)

My current situation is that I've been seeing a girl I think I like for about 2 months now. She comes to my place once a week to have dinner with me and watch movies (she's massively into pre-70's European cinema and so am I, among other things). Sometimes we go out too and she takes lots of pictures of me and tells me I'm so handsome. So I dutifully take lots of pictures of her and tell her she's very pretty (I think she's rather good-looking so I'm not really lying about it). It's all very cute and a bit mushy and painfully naive but there seems to be some real sentiments behind that.

We cuddle and hold hands sometimes but each time I've tried to kiss her she turns me away, not aggressively or anything, she just says she's not ready. It feels exactly like being teenagers except that she's 25 and I'm way older than that. When I walk her back to the station we sometimes talk about it and I try to keep things lighthearted and not be pushy or anything and she says she doesn't really know what kind of relationship she wants with me but that anyway she needs time. I'm pretty sure now that it means it's never going to happen and at first I was disappointed but gradually, almost as a defense mechanism, I started desexualising her in my mind.

The irony of it is that of the 20 to 30 girls I've had sex with in my life, none of them felt as much like we had a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship. I think she fits into a pattern of girls who are either virgins or nearly or completely asexual and that I have attracted these past few years, I suppose because they see me as non-threatening. In her case she has had at least 3 boyfriends in the past but she told me herself that she only feels the need to have sex very occasionally. The difference with the other girls is that we actually have lots of things to talk about and the relationship never feels forced and I would probably keep seeing her even if I had the absolute certitude that nothing would ever happen.

So it got me thinking that maybe if I could devise a way to somehow maintain this asexual relationship (as long as she does not meet a guy she likes better than me) and complement it with a mix of p4p and occasional one-night stands (though they don't come easily to me, at least not anymore), maybe I could be on to something.

At first I saw it as a substitute for what I cannot get but now I'm also wondering if keeping things separate is not a good way to keep them fresh. Like sex would almost be incongruous in our relationship. It's all very theoretical of course. I don't know if anyone has actually experienced a similar situation.

 

[owlet]

Not a few early experiences, dozens of them. Alas, I'm not so young anymore... What got me rethinking about p4p after giving it up is this: (sorry if it's a bit long-winded)

My current situation is that I've been seeing a girl I think I like for about 2 months now. She comes to my place once a week to have dinner with me and watch movies (she's massively into pre-70's European cinema and so am I, among other things). Sometimes we go out too and she takes lots of pictures of me and tells me I'm so handsome. So I dutifully take lots of pictures of her and tell her she's very pretty (I think she's rather good-looking so I'm not really lying about it). It's all very cute and a bit mushy and painfully naive but there seems to be some real sentiments behind that.

We cuddle and hold hands sometimes but each time I've tried to kiss her she turns me away, not aggressively or anything, she just says she's not ready. It feels exactly like being teenagers except that she's 25 and I'm way older than that. When I walk her back to the station we sometimes talk about it and I try to keep things lighthearted and not be pushy or anything and she says she doesn't really know what kind of relationship she wants with me but that anyway she needs time. I'm pretty sure now that it means it's never going to happen and at first I was disappointed but gradually, almost as a defense mechanism, I started desexualising her in my mind.

The irony of it is that of the 20 to 30 girls I've had sex with in my life, none of them felt as much like we had a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship. I think she fits into a pattern of girls who are either virgins or nearly or completely asexual and that I have attracted these past few years, I suppose because they see me as non-threatening. In her case she has had at least 3 boyfriends in the past but she told me herself that she only feels the need to have sex very occasionally. The difference with the other girls is that we actually have lots of things to talk about and the relationship never feels forced and I would probably keep seeing her even if I had the absolute certitude that nothing would ever happen.

So it got me thinking that maybe if I could devise a way to somehow maintain this asexual relationship (as long as she does not meet a guy she likes better than me) and complement it with a mix of p4p and occasional one-night stands (though they don't come easily to me, at least not anymore), maybe I could be on to something.

At first I saw it as a substitute for what I cannot get but now I'm also wondering if keeping things separate is not a good way to keep them fresh. Like sex would almost be incongruous in our relationship. It's all very theoretical of course. I don't know if anyone has actually experienced a similar situation.

sounds like hell

good luck bro

 

[chaztagster]

So it got me thinking that maybe if I could devise a way to somehow maintain this asexual relationship (as long as she does not meet a guy she likes better than me) and complement it with a mix of p4p and occasional one-night stands (though they don't come easily to me, at least not anymore), maybe I could be on to something.

At first I saw it as a substitute for what I cannot get but now I'm also wondering if keeping things separate is not a good way to keep them fresh. Like sex would almost be incongruous in our relationship. It's all very theoretical of course. I don't know if anyone has actually experienced a similar situation.

It sounds a bit like a classic "lavender marriage," from the days when gay relationships were less accepted. Perhaps you can find a way to make an unconventional partnership work with her - I think the only way you'll get there is by finding a way to have a very trusting and candid dialogue with her.

 

[meiji]

What I am on about is more on an emotional or personal level; i.e. have your endeavors screwed up your relationship(s) with others or perhaps your professional life? How did things work out in the end?

Probably a little. I generally only hobby when I'm single, which means I don't have to hide activity from a SO when that's going on. But there's still some subtle lies of omission going on between me and friends and family. There's been times when I've visited friends and family and showed up early or left earlier than strictly necessary because I wanted to scratch an itch at the same time. While my sex life isn't their business, I guess I feel a little guilty that I'm not spending more time with them instead of indulging my more animal instincts, and by either lying about my schedule or say that I'm visiting a 'friend' which isn't exactly the truth.

I think doing that creates subtle barriers between people that I'd usually be closer to, creating an artificial relationship with someone that in a lot of cases I've never met before.

 

[Wwanderer]

Not a few early experiences, dozens of them. Alas, I'm not so young anymore...

I am most obviously not in any position to disagree with you or debate your own experiences, psychology and so forth with you, but I think you misunderstood what I meant when I *speculated* that "you generalized, extrapolated and set your expectations far too strongly and quickly from a few early experiences." Namely, I did *not* mean that you have had only a few previous experiences but rather that you may well have "over learned" from the first few experiences you had and established self-fulfilling expectations that determined the outcomes of all subsequent ones, however numerous they have been. If that were the case, it would imply that each subsequent experience would tend to reinforce those expectations until they became overwhelmingly powerful and thus began to feel like and, in effect, became a sort of unavoidable fate. I hope that is clearer.

Whether or not the above scenario is correct in your case, it definitely is a common psychological pattern that many people experience in many contexts. It might be worth thinking about as a real possibility...or at least as part of the story if not all of it.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

Probably a little. I generally only hobby when I'm single, which means I don't have to hide activity from a SO when that's going on. But there's still some subtle lies of omission going on between me and friends and family. There's been times when I've visited friends and family and showed up early or left earlier than strictly necessary because I wanted to scratch an itch at the same time. While my sex life isn't their business, I guess I feel a little guilty that I'm not spending more time with them instead of indulging my more animal instincts, and by either lying about my schedule or say that I'm visiting a 'friend' which isn't exactly the truth.

I think doing that creates subtle barriers between people that I'd usually be closer to, creating an artificial relationship with someone that in a lot of cases I've never met before.

Very recognizable. But it would be more awkward to share anything about my sex life with my family than not to.