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Baby SD tests the sugary waters

LazarusLong77

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First, thanks everyone who posted here! This gave me enough information and confidence to spend the money on an SD app membership when I was in Japan for a little more than a week recently.

I thought I would contribute and give back by talking about some of my experiences, which will hopefully shorten the learning curve for people in a similar situation.

The app I ended up using was Paddy. Not sure which post recommended it, but it worked well for me (but I haven't tried any others). I do speak Japanese. (Out of ~180 women I've talked to on the app now, only one wants to default to English.)

Woman A (late-20s)
This was my first date. Her pictures on the app were 9 or 10 out of 10 in terms of beauty so I was skeptical, and she wanted to meet in Shinjuku for lunch for (1). (I wasn't setting any other expectations pre-date at this point.) She turned up and was completely the person in the picture, knock-out gorgeous. And she knew it. I asked her "when did men start to notice your beauty and that become something that defined you?" and instead of denying it like many Japanese women, she just said "around high school I started to get an uncomfortable amount of attention". After lunch I asked if she wanted to talk more at a cafe which was a mistake in hindsight. As we were walking she shook me down in a nice way for another (1) "it would be great if..." I wasn't prepared for that so readily agreed. The cafe was a total bust in terms of fun, the employees were standing too close, and she seemed like she was bored or worried (maybe about her next date?).

After this date I realized I needed to set my expectations more clearly before meeting. She asked for another date afterwards and I said "Look, I'm not in this just to take beautiful women to meals. I'm looking for more in a long-term compensated relationship. If that doesn't work for you that's totally fine and I wish you the best." She countered with "I only do that on the third date and later." Of course I'm curious if that's something to string SDs along or not. I tried arguing that we had had two dates already with dinner and cafe aftewards but she didn't buy my argument. ;) I didn't see her a second time, but she has said she's wanting to see me on my next visit. We shall see. Still not sure if I will see her or not.

Woman B1 (mid-20s)
After Woman A, I changed my approach to say "Hey I'm looking to meet up/drink at a cafe/dinner for (1), with the precondition that either you bail, or if we hit it off we will proceed to adult activity". She wanted to meet for coffee (she was not quite as pretty as her picture but still attractive) and we met in front of a coffee house, but upon seeing me she said "I'm good with going the hotel directly if you want." We did and she was clearly a pro. She had breast enhancements and knew her way around the whole thing.

I enjoyed it but realized I'm not necessarily looking for this from an SD app either on the other extreme.

Woman B2 (mid-20s)
This woman's pictures were also incredibly attractive, more the cute type and maybe slightly less attractive than Woman A, maybe 8/10 on my scale. But even though I had just swore off "let's just do sex" I couldn't resist her proposition. When we met she was just a slight notch below her pictures. Still incredibly attractive and we had a good time. I did pay a lot but I couldn't believe this new world I was in, and I was pretty pleased... Until she bailed early even though I set clear expectations I expected a longer stay for the amount I paiod. I didn't confront her in the moment, not feeling comfortable with confrontation (that's why I am probably compatible with Japan, or did Japan make me that way? ha ha) but when I mentioned it later in chat she apologized profusely and said she'd make up for it "next time". We'll see.

Woman C (early-30s)
Met for lunch with my new preconditions. Was clearly the person in the pictures, and was nice enough but just didn't feel a physical attraction. So afterwards I made what I hope was a good excuse white lie rather than hurting her feelings. She seemed into me and seemed disappointed. (残念です。楽しみにしていたのに...)And she clearly had a regular job from our discussion (but maybe side hustles of course.)

Woman D (mid-30s)
Now this experience was weird. I explained what kind of relationship I was looking for, which she acknowledged. But she postponed the date until later in the night, then asked if she could bring a friend along for another (1) comp. I was like "hell no! that kind of brings down the vibe?" She pushed and I said it was off if she didn't come by herself. In hindsight I should have just cancelled. Anyway, if anything Woman D looked better than her picture, solid 7 or so to me. But she had arrived before me and setup at the venue I picked at the bar, right in front of a staff member who was working very close to us the whole time. Which I find extremely awkward as they can tell you're meeting the first time and know what is probably going on. The chat went okay but it was a lot of the broken record, autopilot type small talk you often get from Japanese people. Finally, she said "I'd really like to see your hotel bar..." I thought briefly this meant I had passed the test and it was on (and awkward the staff is standing there the whole time though?). We go outside, and she pulls the Woman A maneuver and asks for another (1). I was ready this time and said "That's not what we agreed..." She asked to exchange LINE then immediately split into the subway, leaving me shocked. Next day she pings me again asking me to meet with her and her friend. "Nah..." BLOCKED.

Woman E (late-20s)
Woman E intrigued me from the start. Her profile mentioned she liked to go out drinking. And when I shared my expectation of potentially leading to adult activities that night, she seemed reticent, but agreed on if we could switch to a bar so she could summon liquid courage. I actually went back to the place I met Woman D because I liked it so much, but the staff member I sat in front of previously gave me a weird look that made me uncomfortable ("oh, this weirdo gaijin...") plus it was too crowded for private conversation even at a table so I bailed and went across the street.

She showed up a bit late, no problem. But when she did show we had a nice conversation. Definitely NOT broken record questions like Woman D. Looks-wise she was regular to above average (but some of her characteristics fit my "type") but I am not all about that and I was intrigued. She asked me if I had seen anyone else on the app and I said "yeah one good and one bad experience", she asked me about the bad experience and I said briefly that I sent a woman packing (Woman C). So we talked for a couple of hours, and before I knew it the bar is shutting down. I asked her if she was ready to go (それじゃ、行きましょうか)and I started walking back together in the direction of my hotel. At some point she asks "where are we going?" and I say "uuuhhh, my hotel?" At which point she was like "OMG, I thought you weren't into me like your other bad experience and you were just saying let's go home separately." I clarified I was totally into her, she smiled, grabbed my hand, and we walked off into the night to the best sex I've had in years. Compensated, but totally off the clock feeling.

I saw her again two nights later for another great night of food, wine and sex. I had to fly home the next day but we exchanged off-app contact info and have been chatting since then. There have been more developments but maybe another time, off topic. Let's just say I've been reading some of the other threads with interest that touch on complicated entanglements and getting feelings mixed up too much. ;)

Learnings, and Next Steps

I think I only talked to 30-40 women on the app during that trip but since then the count is up to about 180-190. Since then I've worried amateurs could be turned off by the "must proceed to adult same day if we're into each other" approach so I've changed tack to say "First time non-adult activity only is okay, but second date forward is dinner+adult if you want to continue." Not sure how that will work out yet. I will have another jaunt to Japan before long and may report back if there is interest. (But my activity level will depend on how much Girl E wants to meet up.)

General pitch categories from the SBs saying what they look for are:
1) Let's go direct to sex, not interested in anything else
2) Let's start with sex, and get to know each other that way, then maybe we do other dates later (sure, sure ;) )
3) Okay your "meet once, then decide if we want to proceed with an adult relationship from date two" works for me <--- this is the sweet spot for me, and what I am looking for
4) I want to date slowly over multiple dinners then potentially transition to "more" at a time I am comfortable.
5) Not many but "I want to be taken to dinner uncompensated, then shopping dates, and "then we see what happens". "I don't want to be paid for sex or companionship because I'm not a pro".

Threat of being reported by women in category 5 are what keeps me vague at first on exact compensation, but I am clear on my requirement to take to the next level by date #2 or stop seeing each other.

I'm also seeing girls as for 2 or even 3 for dinner, which I am taking for a sign that they are probably just mining dinner opportunities for money and probably not compatible with my goals.

Advice Request!
I'd love to get any advice on venues in Shinjuku to Ebisu on Yamanote, on the Western half of the Hibiya line, or generally in southwest Tokyo for face-to-face, cafe or restaurant meetups that you can have some actual privacy. It bothers me to be right in eavesdropping distance of employees or other customers especially when meeting for the first time and/or with a notable age difference.
 
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I meet for a meal first and pay transportation fee for the trouble. They get a nice meal at a reasonable priced slightly upscale place. If we like each other's company then i ask if they'd like to go to a hotel for compensation. Only one woman has ever asked for a specific amount upfront (5). Some say a different date would be good and we exchange contact. Some just go their own ways if we wouldn't mesh.

I personally like meeting at a nice restaurant to a level that I'd take a girlfriend. It plays to the allure that it's a real date, and I think this helps women understand that I'm not after the quick romp and leave. If it doesn't result in a match then it's roughly just the cost and time of a date.. which really is the same as any other night out.

I think the SBs that do this for fun are more likely to enjoy the pseudo-date. Those SBs that just want the quick transaction I'll generally pass on. Quick and informal sessions are more suited to traditional fuzoku for me.
 
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Thanks for sharing! When I first started sugar dating, I strictly was looking for adult on the very first day. But I found that having a first date that is just dinner and a 2nd date at a later time be dinner + adult was a better option. You get to know the person more and the sex ends up being better.
 
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Thanks for sharing! When I first started sugar dating, I strictly was looking for adult on the very first day. But I found that having a first date that is just dinner and a 2nd date at a later time be dinner + adult was a better option. You get to know the person more and the sex ends up being better.
You do have to be careful with that approach because while Japan isn't as bad as the US. Some girls will milk it. Just have to confirm with the girl she will be ok with adults later
 
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You do have to be careful with that approach because while Japan isn't as bad as the US. Some girls will milk it. Just have to confirm with the girl she will be ok with adults later
Can confirm. Tried it in Japan to see if sugaring would be something I'm interested in at home and the girl unfortunately tried to milk me for all I'm worth, then proceeded to go psycho on me and her other sugardaddies/clients when things didn't go her way.
 
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Advice Request!
I'd love to get any advice on venues in Shinjuku to Ebisu on Yamanote, on the Western half of the Hibiya line, or generally in southwest Tokyo for face-to-face, cafe or restaurant meetups that you can have some actual privacy. It bothers me to be right in eavesdropping distance of employees or other customers especially when meeting for the first time and/or with a notable age difference.
So truthfully from personnel experience you'll want to take Shinjuku and Shibuya off your list of locations least while your getting to know her. I say this from experience if your meeting at those locations intially you'll never know if she's a working girl or not.

Those two locations are prime meeting for a lot of working girls cause they just go to work after meeting you or come from work to meet you I was seeing a girl for about a month and at the end of one date. I accidently caught her going to her work shop at one of the shops.

My go to personely is ginza, it's generally out of the way for the average sex worker. It's considered higher end by most Japanese. So if you meet there the girl is usually more impressed. As for where there are a ton of restaurants and options.Base your pick of what the girl says she likes.
 
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Those two locations are prime meeting for a lot of working girls cause they just go to work after meeting you or come from work to meet you I was seeing a girl for about a month and at the end of one date. I accidently caught her going to her work shop at one of the shops
What’s the problem with that?
Apparently you had a good enough time with her for a month until you found out.
 
What’s the problem with that?
Apparently you had a good enough time with her for a month until you found out.
So I had two problems with this, the first and the main one was her lieing to me. One of my first statements in a sugar realtionship is just be honest don't care what it is, I don't judge just be honest. According to her she worked at an IT company. Her schedule at the shop said differently. So she lost most of my trust at that point. Turns out I was about to pay for am expensive IT course she didn't even need. Once I saw that I started looking back and noticed some obvious signs. She was also one of my first attempts at sugar realtionship on Japan.

The second reason is I mainly sugar to avoid working girls or pros. Not because I don't like working girls just true sugaring is a differenet relationship style. Sure if I need a one time thing I jump on find a working girl it works. I have found from experience that long term with pros tend never last long and not what I desire. They are to focused on the transactional portions of the arrangements, they truely never want to be come friends or get to know each other. Least in my experience that may differ for other people but it hasn't for me.

Two good examples of the difference I was seeing a pro. Not a full time one but she worked at a men's esthe part time. I had to make a work trip down to Nagoya then to Osaka. I asked the pro because she had mentioned that she had never been to Nagoya and she wanted to go to see gibili park. So I asked she wanted to come along, I would pay for the trip hotel and food obviously . She said she would love to but she would need X amount of yen. Also before people jump in I also offered to her to travel down Friday and go back Monday so she wasn't working the main job those days not sure about the esthe. It was a fun trip.

Next was a normal SB at a different time, another work trip came up this time to Okinawa. I messaged the her, same offer pay for her trip food and hotel. Same days Friday to Sunday. She immediately wrote back said yes but actually asked if she could do Friday to Tuesday. I was like sure but let her know would I be working Monday. She said fine, awesome trip also oddly enough spent double what I gave the pro on the nonpro without her asking. Also way better trip felt like I was with a girlfriend. I had thought a similar realtionship with the pro. The trip was fun but completely different vibe.

The pros will make everything about a transaction. That's why at first I was turned off about Japanese sugaring because the intially contact seems to be very transactional in nature. But over timed learned after the initial meet up that as long as she wasn't a pro it was awesome. Never had a pro ask to hang out just to hang out. Have had every single non pro offer hang out with out asking for money. Now I usually end up either giving her double the next time or give her something during the date anyway. The girls that ask for less get more, the girls that ask for more usually don't get it.
 
For me, I also prefer the less transactional parts of these transactional relationships... Helps to further the illusion.

For me,... To avoid any problems with lying.... my rule is to never ask questions where I don't need to know the answer to. I also never pry and let women know that if they don't want to tell me something, then just don't. If the relationship deepens then maybe I'd know whenever the woman was comfortable. Then I base chemistry on actual interactions between us. Most of the SB relationships fade for lack of a real match.

My main SB told me years later that she has worked kyaba. For me it was good to develop and not know since I really really only care about how we interact with each other. I love her just the same.
 
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My favorite date locations are Ebisu and Meguro. Lots of excellent restaurants and cafes, love hotels, easy to get to but still out of the way for most sex workers. Also something of a mature upper middle class image in comparison to places like Shibuya and Shinjuku.
 
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You do have to be careful with that approach because while Japan isn't as bad as the US. Some girls will milk it. Just have to confirm with the girl she will be ok with adults later
That's true. I do make it clear that I want first meet up to be dinner and the 2nd time to be adult. I've had only one girl bail on the second date after getting the free dinner date, but I personally like this approach. Sex workers also tend to want to only do adult dates from the get go and I tend to avoid them since I like the normal date with regular girl aspect of sugar dating.
 
That's true. I do make it clear that I want first meet up to be dinner and the 2nd time to be adult. I've had only one girl bail on the second date after getting the free dinner date, but I personally like this approach. Sex workers also tend to want to only do adult dates from the get go and I tend to avoid them since I like the normal date with regular girl aspect of sugar dating.
I also include travel as a part of the relationship. I’ve gotten my favorites to travel to far away places, even outside of Japan. That way I can be relatively sure that they are not DH workers. But even then, you still can’t be totally sure. Most of my SBs are still in Univ though. One is a young OL. 1 has dropped off the map and was not working at all. I assume she was an SB so she could take trips on the SDs dime but maybe that’s better than working in an offfice. What I mean is that she’d plan a trip with friends, and when she needed money to cover the trip, she’d message her endless number of SDs and meet them for no less than ¥150,000. Next thing you know, she’s living it up in Spain or somewhere like that. But she was born in US and really was a pleasure to sleep with. Maybe she changed her lifestyle as her X, and Insta is gone. Or maybe she found one SD that can support her lifestyle. Who knows, but I’m sure she’s not a DH lady.
 
I wouldn’t write Shinjuku off as a date spot. 3chome has restaurants that set the right mood and don’t break the bank, and you can go straight to the hotels if the chemistry is right.
I don’t really understand this trend on the apps of going for dinner dates and adult dates separately.
At least with date clubs, the adult part was usually part of the natural flow of the evening, and the deal was mutual satisfactory for both parties.
 
I wouldn’t write Shinjuku off as a date spot. 3chome has restaurants that set the right mood and don’t break the bank, and you can go straight to the hotels if the chemistry is right.
I don’t really understand this trend on the apps of going for dinner dates and adult dates separately.
At least with date clubs, the adult part was usually part of the natural flow of the evening, and the deal was mutual satisfactory for both parties.
They can be separately but the way a girl explained it to me she always asks for meals or tea and adults. So that way of the guy decides not to do adults she still gets something.
 
I wouldn’t write Shinjuku off as a date spot. 3chome has restaurants that set the right mood and don’t break the bank, and you can go straight to the hotels if the chemistry is right.
I don’t really understand this trend on the apps of going for dinner dates and adult dates separately.
At least with date clubs, the adult part was usually part of the natural flow of the evening, and the deal was mutual satisfactory for both parties.
I’d write it off if one used certain dating apps.
 
I wouldn’t write Shinjuku off as a date spot. 3chome has restaurants that set the right mood and don’t break the bank, and you can go straight to the hotels if the chemistry is right.
I don’t really understand this trend on the apps of going for dinner dates and adult dates separately.
At least with date clubs, the adult part was usually part of the natural flow of the evening, and the deal was mutual satisfactory for both parties.
None of us are saying Shinjuku in and of itself is bad it's a great place. Put the reasons you are recommending it are the reasons why mainly pros utilize it. Also from experience you learn that working girls prefer it. Even more so when they will only meet at specific locations.
 
The pros will make everything about a transaction. That's why at first I was turned off about Japanese sugaring because the intially contact seems to be very transactional in nature. But over timed learned after the initial meet up that as long as she wasn't a pro it was awesome. Never had a pro ask to hang out just to hang out. Have had every single non pro offer hang out with out asking for money. Now I usually end up either giving her double the next time or give her something during the date anyway. The girls that ask for less get more, the girls that ask for more usually don't get it.
I have sugared with a bunch of women in Tokyo, and I can't remember a single one actually asking me for money in person, certainly not up front. We always agree to an amount in advance, and I always pay, but it's often at the very end of the date. On one occasion a few years ago (around the time I started dabbling in this area), I met a woman without agreeing to an amount, took her on a jazz bar date then back to my hotel room, banged her for hours, and at the end she asked me to decide what was fair to give her. She was one of the best lays of my life, too.

Of course this sort of thing would never happen with a sex worker, which kind of underscores how sugaring is different and more akin to regular dating in many ways.
 
I have sugared with a bunch of women in Tokyo, and I can't remember a single one actually asking me for money in person, certainly not up front. We always agree to an amount in advance, and I always pay, but it's often at the very end of the date. On one occasion a few years ago (around the time I started dabbling in this area), I met a woman without agreeing to an amount, took her on a jazz bar date then back to my hotel room, banged her for hours, and at the end she asked me to decide what was fair to give her. She was one of the best lays of my life, too.

Of course this sort of thing would never happen with a sex worker, which kind of underscores how sugaring is different and more akin to regular dating in many ways.
Too many SBs have many ways of treating payment. Novices sometimes set their allowances too low, others too high. I know a Thai lady who stated that certain men offered her a really low amount and others say Europeans offered her a higher amount. Since she didn’t know what she should ask for she proposed both and told me to pick. In other words, for locals, low. For foreigners, high. 😂 This lady definitely was a shop girl.

To conclude, you never know if they are pros or not pros, but for those few hours or more, they are escorts, courtesans, ladies of comfort, good eye candy, head turners.

Just on Saturday afternoon, more people looked at me than at my beautiful date. 😳

So she asks, “Are you a celebrity?”.

I sure hope not! Cause I don’t want her to increase her allowance fee that now includes shopping!

Working girls who pose as SBs tend to be only into sex and escaping or aggressively into shopping. More like scamming. They wear old clothes and tell hardship stories. But I spotted one in Kabukicho standing outside by the movie theatre wearing some expensive clothes. Definitely was working for a ring.

We can all swap experiences , but the bottom line is that you can never entirely know if nurses are actually nurses, university students are students, or whatever they say they are. I even suspect that a girl I know has an AI generated dog. The pictures just look fake! Even she fed the dog something I bought for it but the dog bone was totally different. All of that effort is the get me to think she has a dog for some reason I can’t understand. Well, it’s to prevent her from having to go outside the area she frequents. Very restrictive and definitely working for a shop. I suspect that she’s either a soap girl or DH girl. Sends out the location of which hotel we are in and the room number to someone. She smells exactly like a Korean soap girl who worked in Kawasaki and moonlighted as an SB. Unless that kind of soap is used by many women, it really smells like soap land soap. They have the smoothest skin and well while I am still doubtful , I just pretend to believe them.
 
Too many SBs have many ways of treating payment. Novices sometimes set their allowances too low, others too high. I know a Thai lady who stated that certain men offered her a really low amount and others say Europeans offered her a higher amount. Since she didn’t know what she should ask for she proposed both and told me to pick. In other words, for locals, low. For foreigners, high. 😂 This lady definitely was a shop girl.

To conclude, you never know if they are pros or not pros, but for those few hours or more, they are escorts, courtesans, ladies of comfort, good eye candy, head turners.

Just on Saturday afternoon, more people looked at me than at my beautiful date. 😳

So she asks, “Are you a celebrity?”.

I sure hope not! Cause I don’t want her to increase her allowance fee that now includes shopping!

Working girls who pose as SBs tend to be only into sex and escaping or aggressively into shopping. More like scamming. They wear old clothes and tell hardship stories. But I spotted one in Kabukicho standing outside by the movie theatre wearing some expensive clothes. Definitely was working for a ring.

We can all swap experiences , but the bottom line is that you can never entirely know if nurses are actually nurses, university students are students, or whatever they say they are. I even suspect that a girl I know has an AI generated dog. The pictures just look fake! Even she fed the dog something I bought for it but the dog bone was totally different. All of that effort is the get me to think she has a dog for some reason I can’t understand. Well, it’s to prevent her from having to go outside the area she frequents. Very restrictive and definitely working for a shop. I suspect that she’s either a soap girl or DH girl. Sends out the location of which hotel we are in and the room number to someone. She smells exactly like a Korean soap girl who worked in Kawasaki and moonlighted as an SB. Unless that kind of soap is used by many women, it really smells like soap land soap. They have the smoothest skin and well while I am still doubtful , I just pretend to believe them.
I'd love to read your memoirs while you're still with us! Are you working on them?