being on the chubby side

[Hunter21actual]

hey fellas,

i have a few pounds extra, just a wee beer gut really, so I'm more like your average chump (as oppossed to "your brah", the pick up artist).

I laugh and smile a lot and always try to have a good time with the ladies, I have fair language skills (nowhere near fluent, but I can tell a Joke or two in Japanese), but still... "dating" is slow, takes aeons, I'm just not advancing...

Do I have to be slim? And do I have to be an over-confident pain-in-the-ass arrogant douchebag to score? Is that what it takes?

(I know a few guys who are exactly that, can't say that they are nice people to be around, but they score with the women. a lot)

I'm pretty clueless atm. And I'm seriously considering p4p fun as an alternative to endless dating to no avail...

 

[drewz]

It's been my experience that you'll get a lot further with the J-girls if you're a bit... what most Americans or northern Europeans would consider pushy. They tend to be pretty passive unless they're desperate and/or drunk, except for the rare one who knows what she wants So don't wait for her to jump your bones or suggest something, just go for it and if you strike out find a better girl. Tend to doubt your extra weight has much to do with it though!

 

[Hunter21actual]

i had a feeling that they're even more clueless than me. thanks for the advice! i will appoint dates later at night and be a bit more pushy. confident pushy, not needy pushy ;D

 

[Solong]

You don't have to be slim, when you are a foreigner.

However, muscles are one thing, and a beer gut is another.

Japanese are obsessed with stomach fat and a beer gut will definitely hurt your game, unless you are rich.

I agree that foreigners need to be proactive, definitely men and sometimes foreign women too. Many Japanese are very passive or will give a blank poker face stare, where you can't tell what they want to do. Don't expect Japanese women to make the first move, unless you are very popular/famous, or she is very Westernized.

 

[Panda989]

I have a beer belly, just about avg really, and I landed a 5foot7 50kg model for a wife. It's about attitude. How you treat them and how you act. They like confidence more then arrogance but douchebags to well wih ladies as some women confuse the 2. Money helps that's for sure, but you can do well without all that much cash. Lots of my friends did well and they were broke as hell.

That said I had a fought go when I first got to Tokyo, and it was about getting out here in social setting not just hanging out in bars that did it for me. I met girls at parties or group events etc etc. I found my wife at a private party I didn't know about until 2 hours before It started. So get out there be a bit aggressive and go put your thing down.

That said if you go for a punt then don't feel bad, your just looking after your health with that and in Japan no one would care if your not married, or even if you are in most cases.

 

[psd]

I'm not an expert, nor even any good at picking up, but one thing you have to be very careful of is being too touchy. I see guys doing really well then trying to cuddle or touch the girl and abruptly she's off. Man you were in but you blew it big time. J-girls are very conscious of what other people think. You may well get a girl to a love hotel on the first night, but only if no one knows.

 

[Panda989]

I agree hell I wasn't allowed to kiss my pregnant wife in the lobby of the building we both worked in. Heaven forbid anyone saw us.

 

[fireman]

As always, YMMV. Outright had my hand down the back of a lady's jeans in a bar in Roppongi once (with her implicit consent, while we were having a conversation). Primed her well before we had even gotten in a cab to go to the LH. Nobody seemed to notice or care.

 

[Solong]

...but one thing you have to be very careful of is being too touchy. I see guys doing really well then trying to cuddle or touch the girl and abruptly she's off. Man you were in but you blew it big time. J-girls are very conscious of what other people think. You may well get a girl to a love hotel on the first night, but only if no one knows.

You usually have to be a bit "touchy feely" to gauge if she likes you in that way and before going to a hotel or apartment. Going from talking across a big dinner table in a restaurant, and no physical contact, then straight to the hotel is usually way too abrupt and very likely to fail.

The key is usually to NOT feel her up or kiss her around her friends or co-workers, around her neighborhood, or in a too public of a setting. Japanese women often get embarrassed easily.

You usually will WANT to be someplace semi-private, dimly lit, nobody around knows her, and/or nobody is staring at you both. Then she will usually be more comfortable to kiss and you get the clear "go signals" for going to the hotel or apartment.

Japanese women often prefer stealthiness. It's best if foreign guys play it like you are her secret lover, until you actually have sex with her. This creates the right mindset. After you had sex and over time, then Japanese women are more likely to be comfortable with more public displays of affection.

 

[Zaphod222]

As always, YMMV. Outright had my hand down the back of a lady's jeans in a bar in Roppongi once (with her implicit consent, while we were having a conversation). Primed her well before we had even gotten in a cab to go to the LH. Nobody seemed to notice or care.

Roppongi is sort of a parallel universe to Japan though...

 

[Serena Vincente]

interesting to know. I personally dont mind a little chabby if he has personality.

Serena x

 

[LionBoy]

I dont wanted to open an additional thread.
Is there a place to find "normal" girls, which are searching or maybe have some interest?

 

[meiji]

Are you 'on the chubby side', or just attaching your post to a recent thread regardless of if it's topical or not?

 

[LionBoy]

I am on the chubby side.

 

[meiji]

I am on the chubby side.

Depends on what you consider 'chubby'. Japanese people are often quite appearance oriented. If you are overweight by Japanese standards, you might be okay, but you'll have some issues meeting 'civilians' just for play. If you are overweight by American standards, you are probably not going to find attractive women in Japan interested in play.

 

[Solong]

From what I've seen, Japanese are very bias about weight. If you are significantly overweight, you are going to have problems unless you have major compensators like money (and it's obvious by looking at you), popularity for something (comedian, sports...), a high level job and position (that you can leverage to meet chicks), very charismatic, etc...

Even guys that are not chubby, but are very muscular (body builder type) or tall (over 180cm/6ft) can have problems.

Many Japanese women tend to get weirdly nervous and more overly paranoid than Western women. They often worry too much about what people might think or who is looking at them (part of the herd/group mentality). So anything that you are adding that is outside their small bubble of comfort, will reduce your chances.

If you are going to be in Japan for a long while, you might want to start jogging and stop eating so much meat and crappy food. In general it's healthy for you and will often improve your odds with women overall. That is, unless you have an "ace" up your sleeve which causes women to overlook your physical appearance or weight.

 

[GoldenDalton]

Even guys that are not chubby, but are very muscular (body builder type) or tall (over 180cm/6ft) can have problems.

Many Japanese women tend to get weirdly nervous and more overly paranoid than Western women. They often worry too much about what people might think or who is looking at them (part of the herd/group mentality). So anything that you are adding that is outside their small bubble of comfort, will reduce your chances..

What would you advocate for someone lean but naturally muscular? I have a top-heavy torso that's going to be large even if I don't have a scrap of fat on me.

Of course I'm not really interested in meeting "civilians." And there may be nothing that actually works there. The anorexia in Japan is ridiculous. So there's really no way to try to compete with that. And I can't exactly become shorter.

 

[meiji]

What would you advocate for someone lean but naturally muscular? I have a top-heavy torso that's going to be large even if I don't have a scrap of fat on me.

Of course I'm not really interested in meeting "civilians." And there may be nothing that actually works there. The anorexia in Japan is ridiculous. So there's really no way to try to compete with that. And I can't exactly become shorter.

I think if you are lean, you should be fine. Even when I was practically underweight in college, I was still a big guy (broad shouldered, etc). There's not much that you can do about that. There's always going to be a subset of Japanese women that will only date the skin-and-bones 110 pound guys -- and they are usually the ones that don't want to date foreigners, either.

If you have no interest in picking up 'civilians', it doesn't really matter I don't think. The only other place it might matter is in a sugar baby situation where a girl might want to get paid more for being seen with someone she finds less attractive than usual. I'd doubt being a little top heavy would be a major issue in that case, though.

 

[Solong]

@GoldenDalton

There is not much you can do, except keep in mind that no matter what, some Japanese women are going to be intimated and scared of you, the further you are from the skinny and/or metrosexual Japanese look. Learn to recognize and diffuse Japanese women from feeling scared or paranoid, when possible.

I had a friend that competed in low level bodybuilding competions and was clearly muscular. He gave himself a cute nickname and had a warm smile, that took some of the edge off. He would also use the fact that Japanese women were intimated at times by 'commanding" them to do things. He would tell them to do small easy things. "Go get me a napkin," "Show me your nails/shoes." He would have this kind of smiling, but stern face. And many Japanese women would do what he says in a kind of boss and S&M type of way. He could also get away with "polite grabbing". Just grab their hand, pull them close, and start a conversation. Regular sized and most foreign guys usually can't pull this off, as there is a certain technique to it that isn't obvious. It isn't straight out caveman like people might think. It's a tatic and works more for tall and/or muscular guys.

At first the Japanese women were scared, but then felt comfortable with him due to his smile and obviously kind/stern manner. Next thing you know, they are playing with or complimenting the dude's muscles, and doing whatever he tells them.

And Japanese guys around him were less likely to backstab him with sly comments because they were intimated too.

Even if you can't pull off such tatics, be observant and experiment with lots of different approaches. There is no substitute for experience. As long as you keep in mind that you are competing against the more common skinny and/or metrosexual type guys.

You need to do things, go places, and deal with Japanese women that appreciate your type. Realize that you have to play the game a little differently.

Also learning to speak Japanese will help too. But there too, learn to use both English and Japanese to your advantage. Some Japanese women want to learn or practice English, so help them. Some Japanese women can't speak English, so use as much Japanese as you know in those cases.

 

[Wwanderer]

There's always going to be a subset of Japanese women that will only date the skin-and-bones 110 pound guys -- and they are usually the ones that don't want to date foreigners, either.

Indeed! In addition, there is a subset of Japanese women who are fascinated with and attracted by the size of Western men, including ones that would most certainly be considered chubby by Japanese standards. And while these women are definitely a minority, they very often are the same minority of Japanese women who have lived for a significant time somewhere in the West (which is where/why/how they lost their distaste for larger guys) and thus speak the best English or French or whatever the native language of the country where they spent time. In other words they are the very same Japanese women most accessible to you in your native language. Win-win!

These J women are often specifically looking for gaijin BFs, sometimes specifically for "big ones". I was once the target of gyakunan (a woman approaching and picking up a guy) while walking in Ueno Park by a J woman who had previously lived for some years in San Francisco. Much later she told me that it was my size that caught her attention and initially attracted her, and she often compared my size (favorably) to that of various Japanese guys in her social circle.

In short, while I think the generalizations Solong describes are correct as far as generalizations go, I also think you may be better off disregarding them. Moreover, self-confidence is more attractive to many, probably most, women than anything about a guy's looks.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

@Ww

Foreign guys should be confident, on this we agree. But they need to be also realistic and understand the playing field that they are on. Acting like Japan is the same as the U.S. or Australia isn't usually going to work out. And pretending their beer gut, fashion style, or being tall is having no affect on how Japanese see them, won't help them.

I've seen people make the adjustments and do well in Japan and I've seen those (both men AND women) not make adjustments and suffer. I knew both foreign men and women that took 3 to 6 months before having an intimate relationship with Japanese (not counting prostitutes). So bad, they needed other foreign and Japanese friends to help them out.

They need to play the game that works best for them. Finding that out requires observation, experience, and understanding.

 

[Wwanderer]

@Ww

Foreign guys should be confident, on this we agree. But they need to be also realistic and understand the playing field that they are on. Acting like Japan is the same as the U.S. or Australia isn't usually going to work out. And pretending their beer gut, fashion style, or being tall is having no affect on how Japanese see them, isn't helpful.

They need to play the game that works best for them. Finding that out requires observation, experience, and understanding.

I agree with all of that; mostly it is pretty obvious and undebatable. I'd add only that while "pretending their beer gut, fashion style, or being tall is having no affect on how Japanese see them" is unrealistic and unhelpful, so is imagining that those factors are a negative for all or nearly all J women. It is most definitely unhelpful if it undermines their self-confidence.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

@Ww

I'm going more from the perspective to take many variables into account. Be aware of your surroundings and mindful of what is going on.

So, it's not so much about negative or positive, but about awarness and doing what works.

If a person has a limitation, don't pretend it doesn't exist. Rather, learn to work around it or even turn it into an advantage.

And part of this will come from the experience of approaching and talking with many women, and also being observant of the interaction.

Fashion, method of approach, hair cuts, how you say things, etc... have an affect. With that stated, when you approach someone, you can't "bitch out" and be overly self-conscious and afraid of rejection. You do have to "man-up" and try your best in the given circumstances. But later, win or fail, it's good to analyze and see what was or wasn't working.

 

[Wwanderer]

@Solong

Again, there's nothing in what you say with which I disagree, but I think I am saying something a little bit different. Namely, where you say:

"If a person has a limitation, don't pretend it doesn't exist."

I am definitely not saying that you should pretend that the limitation does not exist. Rather I am saying that what will be a limitation/disadvantage in wooing some or most women may actually be an advantage with others and thus that the best approach is often to try to find those women.

As a personal and specific example, take age. I am in my mid-60s and look it. Most attractive young women...young enough to be my daughter or even (with fast work) granddaughter are simply not going to consider me as a possibility at all, will never give me a chance. I could try to make myself look a bit younger (in various standard ways) or I could try to distract them from my age in various ways. But what I prefer to do is to regard my age as a positive, not a negative, and find those young women who are actually attracted to older men. They are definitely a minority, but there are more than enough of them to keep me busy and happy. This is basically the same point dreams and I were making in GD's thread about older guys. Imo, it can equally apply to being "chubby" or a big Western guy.

Perhaps all of this is just my usual long-winded way of saying what you meant by "even turn it into an advantage".

-Ww

 

[GoldenDalton]

I think if you are lean, you should be fine. Even when I was practically underweight in college, I was still a big guy (broad shouldered, etc). There's not much that you can do about that. There's always going to be a subset of Japanese women that will only date the skin-and-bones 110 pound guys -- and they are usually the ones that don't want to date foreigners, either.

If you have no interest in picking up 'civilians', it doesn't really matter I don't think. The only other place it might matter is in a sugar baby situation where a girl might want to get paid more for being seen with someone she finds less attractive than usual. I'd doubt being a little top heavy would be a major issue in that case, though.

What's going on with the skinniness in men? What is it about Japanese society that makes that kind of unhealthy standard reality? Surely this was not always the case. Traditionally Japanese men were known as tough warriors with a lot of physical strength.