Born in US, Japanese citizen by both Parents. JP Passport renewal problem!

[Randomjaket]

I am due for renewing my JP citizenship/passport. I was born in the US but have Japanese citizenship due to my parents who are both Japanese. I want to keep my Japanese Citizenship and be able to renew my JP passport. However, the problem is that I don't have residency in Japan, and I also don't have a green card due to being a US Citizen. Besides some month+ long family trips in Japan, I haven't gone to Japan. Even though I was born in the states, I feel more Japanese, fit better with Japanese culture, and feel at home when I am in Japan. And my earliest memories are from Japan, because I was there so many times as a young kid. I also was fortunate to grow up in a Japanese community and went to Japanese school until my parents decided to officially live in the US.

I would really like to keep my Japanese citizenship because I would like to move to Japan later in my life permanently and work there. I know that they have work visa's, but they are extremely difficult to obtain and maintain, and owning property is even harder as a non-Jp citizen.

Has anyone gone through what I am going? If you have, what did you do?

 

[TAG Manager]

Best suggestion: Contact your closest Japanese embassy and ask them about renewing your passport while out of Japan.

Your situation isn't unique in regards to renewing your passport while out of Japan. Japanese workers assigned abroad for business or other personal reasons also need to renew their passports. Some of those folks aren't maintaining a Japan residence either...

 

[MikeH]

As TAG Manager said there are no problems renewing your passport abroad. Just go to the embassy and fill the forms. People do that all the time.

Japan doesn't officially allow dual citizenship; unofficially they do and mostly nobody cares. There have been some stories about personnel in foreign embassies giving people hard time and telling they have to choose which one they want to keep. If that happens you just say "yeah, I want to keep my Japanese citizenship" and that's it. They can't take away your foreign citizenship and they won't take away your Japanese citizenship.

 

[Randomjaket]

Best suggestion: Contact your closest Japanese embassy and ask them about renewing your passport while out of Japan.

Your situation isn't unique in regards to renewing your passport while out of Japan. Japanese workers assigned abroad for business or other personal reasons also need to renew their passports. Some of those folks aren't maintaining a Japan residence either...

As TAG Manager said there are no problems renewing your passport abroad. Just go to the embassy and fill the forms. People do that all the time.

Japan doesn't officially allow dual citizenship; unofficially they do and mostly nobody cares. There have been some stories about personnel in foreign embassies giving people hard time and telling they have to choose which one they want to keep. If that happens you just say "yeah, I want to keep my Japanese citizenship" and that's it. They can't take away your foreign citizenship and they won't take away your Japanese citizenship.

I appreciate both your comments. I was thinking about calling the Japanese embassy, but was honestly worried that they would take the time to track me down and make me pick on the spot. TAG Manager makes a good point though...

As far as Japan not allowing dual citizenship, I know that it's a very grey area, but I figure it would be a good idea to ask. This is hypothetical, since it sounds like you may know, but If the foreign embassy does ask about which citizenship I choose, and say that I do want my Japanese citizenship, but they take my US passport, would the JP embassy tell the US I denounced my US citizenship, or could I just simply just go get a new US passport and say my old one was stolen?

 

[MikeH]

but they take my US passport

They won't take your passport. They have no authority to do that, it's the property of USA and thus Japanese or other government has nothing to do with it. Also the passport is not your citizenship; just a proof of it.

What they can do (but normally don't) is to tell you the law says (Japanese that is) that you have to decide. And occasionally they might threaten you that your Japanese citizenship is taken away if you don't choose. Just tell them you select the Japanese nationality and if they tell you have to denounce the American one you tell them you'll look into it.

Still 99% of the cases you go to the embassy, you fill the forms and they give you a new passport. No drama, no hassle.

Though hopefully you are renewing your passport, in other words getting a new one while holding a valid Japanese passport? If you have let your Japanese one expire then things get more complicated paperwork-wise; though still there are no problems getting a new one but you probably will need to get your koseki from Japan.

 

[joeking]

First of all, you don't have to 'renew' your citizenship. If you were to not renew your Japanese passport, you may have to go thru a lot of hoops to explain why you don't have a passport when you do apply for it, but you 'have' citizenship and it is a matter of confirming that you have it, which, as MikeH points out, for Japan requires a copy of your koseki. Yes, the paperwork is complicated if your Japanese passport has expired, but it is not a case of renewing your citizenship. If you think of your citizenship as something that doesn't expire, you might be a little less hesitant to file your paperwork.

 

[Ken1988]

I don’t know if a perv’s forum is a right place to ask such a question, but if you are over 22 years old, all you have to do is to submit a form to your local Japanese consulate to declare that you will choose Japanese as your nationality. After that, you can technically keep your US passport. The law requires you to put “your best effort” to give up US citizenship after your declaration, but it doesn’t require you to actually give it up. This is a loophole which won’t be filled for now. In any case, you can find some lawyers on this issues easily. Just consult one of them.

 

[MikeH]

but if you are over 22 years old, all you have to do is to submit a form to your local Japanese consulate to declare that you will choose Japanese as your nationality.

I wouldn't even do that. As the practical rule now is that if you do nothing it is taken as a confirmation that you choose your Japanese nationality over the other one.

The fewer forms and promises you have to give officially the better. But of course you don't ever want to lie in official form either; in the passport application they ask if you hold another nationality. Check yes and submit. Nobody cares.

 

[Ken1988]

As the practical rule now is that if you do nothing it is taken as a confirmation that you choose your Japanese nationality over the other one.

MoJ website says that’s indeed the case for those were already holding dual nationality before 1985 when the nationality law was revised. They are legally allowed to keep dual nationality upon the interpretation that they chose Japanese over the other...the same logic applies to the OP’s case, but probably he will be asked if he has “made his choice” already.

 

[NorthTriangle]

Here’s a rough explanation that may be useful:

A. Both your US and JPN nationalities were naturally acquired. This is different from someone who has one of the two nationalities but then decides to naturalize and acquire a second nationality. In that latter case, Japan expects ( or in the case of someone naturalizing as JPN , they are ordered to ) renounce their other non JPN nationality - and in some cases, if discovered, they get their newly acquired J citizenship taken away.

B. Both countries require everyone who has citizenship of their country to both enter and leave on said passport. Therefore, leave and enter Japan on only a Japanese passport and leave & enter the US on a US passport. ( Yeah , i know there are people who’ve done it without knowing it was illegal and didn’t get flagged or anything but still ...)

C. Back to those dual nationals who acquired their status naturally ... yeah, the Japanese law does state something like one needs to decide by age ...22. Or, is it now 18?

The US - JP haafu friends I know were a little concerned they might be stopped , questioned or told by Immigration to surrender their J passports when they first started actively traveling between the two countries, but haven’t had any such issues. Just in case, they did consult a J attorney who advised if ever confronted or detained ...a) never to surrender their J passport b) when told of the legal requirement reply with “ yes, thank you for informing me. As you know, it is such an important, if not difficult decision, please give me more time to think as I shall consult with my family attorney...”

Now for J citizens who do naturalize as US citizens but don’t surrender their J passports, depending on the policy of the local J Consulate, Consulate General or Embassy, they might be told “no, but please come in to surrender your J passport”. Some Consulates reportedly scour naturalization lists for J names and call them to do so.

The safest bet in that category would be to always renew ones J passport in Japan.

However in your case, unless your local J Consulate / Embassy ones has one of those asshole Consular officials, you shouldn’t have an issue. You will need to get em a copy of your Koseki Tohon, I think.( not sure if that’s absolutely required).

And, look... here’s the J Los Angeles CG site in English:

https://www.la.us.emb-japan.go.jp/itpr_en/e_m02_07_02.htm

This bit seems to indicate “dual is okay as long as your non J nationality was naturally acquired ):

“...(6) Green Card (for Permanent Residents)/U.S. Passport of Birth Certificate (for Dual Citizens) *for dual citizens born outside of the U.S., a Consular Report of Birth Abroad Certificate will be required”

 

[Ken1988]

You will need to get em a copy of your Koseki Tohon, I think.(

Koseki is not required for JP passport renewal. What the OP needs to bring to his local JP consulate are a valid JP passport, one ID photo, a proof of US residency status (US passport, green card, or a JP passport with a valid US visa). Koseki is required only for a new issue.

 

[MikeH]

yeah, the Japanese law does state something like one needs to decide by age ...22. Or, is it now 18?

It's when you become adult, so still at twenty. But they give you two years to think about it so in practise it is 22.

Now for J citizens who do naturalize as US citizens but don’t surrender their J passports

That is totally different bean bag and the law says you automatically lose your Japanese citizenship when you purposefully obtain a foreign one. So if the authorities get to know it consider not being Japanese anymore regardless if you hold the passport or not.

This bit seems to indicate “dual is okay as long as your non J nationality was naturally acquired ):

That is an embassy page so they tell it like it's in practise; not how it is by the law.

Koseki is not required for JP passport renewal. Koseki is required only for a new issue.

And that is indeed the reason why you should always keep all your passports valid and renew on time.

 

[Keihan]

1) The Japanese embassy cannot touch--and I mean, literally, cannot fucking touch--your U.S. passport. You're an American citizen, and if they ask you to surrender the passport, tell them to get fucked.

2) Most of my friends who grew up with dual US/JPN citizenship back stateside had to "choose" a side at age 19 or 20, if I recall correctly. On the American side, the government may ask you to declare citizenship, and if if they do, just claim American and keep your U.S. passport. The Japanese side will probably not, but if they do, just claim Japanese. The difference is, the U.S. may require you to state your nationality as American and hold a U.S. passport and will require documentation; the Japanese side may "officially" require you to declare yourself a Japanese citizen but they won't really enforce any stringent requirements and will continue to issue you a JPN passport for the rest of your life, so long as you keep going back to the embassy for renewals and speak Japanese and pretend you still consider yourself a Japanese citizen.

Put it this way: My grandfather was born in the states to Japanese-citizen immigrants but moved back to Japan as an infant and stayed there until his late teens, when he moved back to the states via his natural-born U.S. citizenship. However, he didn't feel he was American in any way, shape or form, and registered all of his American-born children as Japanese citizens because he planned on returning to Japan with his family permanently at some point. However, life got in the way and he ended up living out the rest of his days stateside. Two generations later, I was living and working in Japan on an instructor visa and out of curiosity, took my century-old koseki tohon (actually made of rice paper pages) to the local immigration office to see if I could apply for that return-refugee visa that all those vagrants from Brazil and Peru seem to get, and after the old-timers at the office were done gasping and moaning and gawking at it, they informed me that this document proved I was the son of a Japanese citizen and eligible for all courtesies such status entailed.

I didn't follow through with this as as that point I'd had enough of living in Japan and was planning to fuck off back home soon, but I kinda get the feeling that "citizenship" in Japan goes like this: If you have a Japanese face, Japanese name and full Japanese blood, you're a true-blue cousin of Tojo and member of the collective hive, no matter what the technicalities might be. If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, can use the thumbs of latex gloves as a condom like a duck and walks pigeon-toed like a duck, you're one of them.

I will tell you this, however, since you seem to be suffering from the same disorder as every other person I know in your situation: I give you one month of living and working and putting up with the daily bullshit in Japan before you realize you are an American, and not Japanese. You'll know where you belong soon enough.

 

[warubuta]

1) The Japanese embassy cannot touch--and I mean, literally, cannot fucking touch--your U.S. passport. You're an American citizen, and if they ask you to surrender the passport, tell them to get fucked.

2) Most of my friends who grew up with dual US/JPN citizenship back stateside had to "choose" a side at age 19 or 20, if I recall correctly. On the American side, the government may ask you to declare citizenship, and if if they do, just claim American and keep your U.S. passport. The Japanese side will probably not, but if they do, just claim Japanese. The difference is, the U.S. may require you to state your nationality as American and hold a U.S. passport and will require documentation; the Japanese side may "officially" require you to declare yourself a Japanese citizen but they won't really enforce any stringent requirements and will continue to issue you a JPN passport for the rest of your life, so long as you keep going back to the embassy for renewals and speak Japanese and pretend you still consider yourself a Japanese citizen.

Put it this way: My grandfather was born in the states to Japanese-citizen immigrants but moved back to Japan as an infant and stayed there until his late teens, when he moved back to the states via his natural-born U.S. citizenship. However, he didn't feel he was American in any way, shape or form, and registered all of his American-born children as Japanese citizens because he planned on returning to Japan with his family permanently at some point. However, life got in the way and he ended up living out the rest of his days stateside. Two generations later, I was living and working in Japan on an instructor visa and out of curiosity, took my century-old koseki tohon (actually made of rice paper pages) to the local immigration office to see if I could apply for that return-refugee visa that all those vagrants from Brazil and Peru seem to get, and after the old-timers at the office were done gasping and moaning and gawking at it, they informed me that this document proved I was the son of a Japanese citizen and eligible for all courtesies such status entailed.

I didn't follow through with this as as that point I'd had enough of living in Japan and was planning to fuck off back home soon, but I kinda get the feeling that "citizenship" in Japan goes like this: If you have a Japanese face, Japanese name and full Japanese blood, you're a true-blue cousin of Tojo and member of the collective hive, no matter what the technicalities might be. If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, can use the thumbs of latex gloves as a condom like a duck and walks pigeon-toed like a duck, you're one of them.

I will tell you this, however, since you seem to be suffering from the same disorder as every other person I know in your situation: I give you one month of living and working and putting up with the daily bullshit in Japan before you realize you are an American, and not Japanese. You'll know where you belong soon enough.

If you look Japanese and have even the most tenuous story and the shadiest documentation that you are Japanese, they will have a strong bias to give you a passport. They think that they can somehow sense the small percentage of Japanese blood in your veins and this is good enough for them. Now if your non-Japanese part is Filipino, it might be a bit tougher, but even these folks have a pretty good chance. It makes them so happy to know that there are people out there who have a choice to be something else, but choose to be Japanese. This don’t ask don’t tell dual citizenship deal just confirms it. They know that a lot of people don’t really want to be Japanese, but they are happy to be dual. So the Japanese just willfully ignore the second passport and say, “Look! He is a little brown guy from one of those muddy river jungle countries south of here, but he says his great, great grandfather was named Nakamura and he wants to be Japanese! Isn’t that nice! Let’s let him in.”