Canadian Liberal Party to debate decriminalisation of consensual sex work

Sudsy

Sudsy

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Sudsy said:
Legalization, or at least decriminalization, just makes it all safer for everyone, and lets police focus on the truly problematic areas of trafficking and underaged providers.
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Exactly.

I'm happy to see that not in all countries sexworkers are as unwelcome as in the US, and that other countries don't seem to follow the US' recent example.
 
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Canada has actually been relatively lax on "harmless" illegal stuff for some time. I haven't lived there in years, so I don't know how different it became when they criminalized buying sexual services. (It's not criminal to sell services) ... but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably only enforced for specific cases when the buyer is into something iffy or they want to clean up a problematic area.

The one real life example I can give is roughly 25 years ago, when marijuana was still completely illegal in Canada, the RCMP came to my parent's house on a tip of drugs and they tossed the place. They ended up finding my stepfather's sports bag which was littered with seeds and a few buds and such (I mean, it was a large sports bag which had clearly been STUFFED with marijuana at one point). The cops took the bag to him and asked about it, and he's like "Yeah, I smoke pot." and they went "Ok whatever." and left. That was the end of it. They were literally at my house with a search warrant for drugs and couldn't be bothered.

So it's hard to say what kind of practical difference it'll make if buying sexual service is officially completely decriminalized there. Would certainly make for a cheap and safe sex tourism option for US citizens... Can't wait to hear the border guards and their "Please state the purpose of your visit to Canada." ...
 
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MikeH said:
The escort girls should start carrying a video camera and tripod and call it a movie production then.
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There is this family guy scene where they do that, but thats not how it works irl of course, in the US at least.

At least Japan is consistent in that penetrative vaginal sex never officially happens but hey, if there were something behind those pixels, they wont make a fuss about it.
 
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MikeH said:
The escort girls should start carrying a video camera and tripod and call it a movie production then.
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This has been attempted, unsuccessfully, in the US. Courts (judges and juries) can and do exercise their judgement in what to believe. In other words, if it appears that an escort is using filming as a ruse to disguise prostitution as production of porn, the court can regard it as prostitution even if both the escort and her customer(s) claim they were shooting porn.

-Ww
 
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Wwanderer said:
This has been attempted, unsuccessfully, in the US. Courts (judges and juries) can and do exercise their judgement in what to believe. In other words, if it appears that an escort is using filming as a ruse to disguise prostitution as production of porn, the court can regard it as prostitution even if both the escort and her customer(s) claim they were shooting porn.

-Ww
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I dont think i know better than you but from what i’ve heard to do porn you need more than a camera for it to be legal (unless its an unpaid sextape), like contracts and such.
 
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User#8628 said:
I dont think i know better than you but from what i’ve heard to do porn you need more than a camera for it to be legal (unless its an unpaid sextape), like contracts and such.
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You are exactly right. That is an illustration of my point. Afaik, there are no US states where contracts are specifically required to make something porn, but it is definitely the type of thing that a court might consider in deciding whether to believe a defense against a prostitution charge based on claiming it was a porn shoot.

Another and important example would be both the woman AND THE MAN being paid for their participation by some third party which ends up in possession of the video (typically a porn production company in the case of a real porn shoot). If it involved and also paid camera crew, assistants (e.g., make-up, flutters), a director etc, perhaps some sort of script, plausible arrangements to distribute the video, the case for it being a porn shoot would become quite strong. But if the man just pays the woman and they then video tape themselves having sex in a hotel room or wherever and that's it, a court is very unlikely to believe it is a legit porn shoot.

This is basically the answer to @e-smile's implied question. Countries can make prostitution illegal and porn production legal because the two activities are quite different and easily distinguished. As you say, it is not simply a matter of a camera or no camera.

-Ww
 
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Wwanderer said:
This is basically the answer to @e-smile's implied question. Countries can make prostitution illegal and porn production legal because the two activities are quite different and easily distinguished. As you say, it is not simply a matter of a camera or no camera.

-Ww
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I did not say that it's the same activity.
 
e-smile said:
I did not say that it's the same activity.
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Indeed you didn’t. You just said that it is hard to understand how one can be legal and one illegal. It is because they are reasonably different things. In the US this gives one of them (porn) legal protection as a form of “speech” via the freedom of speech portion of the Bill of Rights but not the other.

Probably you knew that already, I realize.

-Ww
 
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Wwanderer said:
Indeed you didn’t. You just said that it is hard to understand how one can be legal and one illegal. It is because they are reasonably different things. In the US this gives one of them (porn) legal protection as a form of “speech” via the freedom of speech portion of the Bill of Rights but not the other.

Probably you knew that already, I realize.

-Ww
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two different jobs can have the same legal status so that doesn't help.
And I'm not asking for what legal trick is used, I'm talking about changing laws and not only in US, I didn't even point US in particular, US is one country among many others in this case.

Making prostitution legal has many advantages and the usual "anti" are mainly using morality arguments, those same arguments should be the same for porn.
 
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e-smile said:
two different jobs can have the same legal status so that doesn't help.
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You've lost me. Obviously if there are two different jobs or activities, both can be legal, neither can be legal, or one can be legal and the other illegal. You agree that prostitution and shooting porn are different things, but you posted above that you find it hard to understand how one can be legal and the other illegal. I guess I don't understand why you find it puzzling.

I'm talking about changing laws ...
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I didn't understand that you were talking about that. Where did you say anything about changing laws in this thread?

Making prostitution legal has many advantages ...
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I totally agree. I'm all for it. So there is probably nothing for us to argue about.

-Ww
 
Wwanderer said:
So there is probably nothing for us to argue about.
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When has that ever stopped people from arguing in the net?

So, you need to found your own porn production company. And your market is videos that look like home-made. You are the owner and the single male actor. Put an ad up to hire females. Profit.

Err, in the meaning you still get p4p, the company will bite the dust soon if you don't fund it constantly.
 
Wwanderer said:
You've lost me. Obviously if there are two different jobs or activities, both can be legal, neither can be legal, or one can be legal and the other illegal. You agree that prostitution and shooting porn are different things, but you posted above that you find it hard to understand how one can be legal and the other illegal. I guess I don't understand why you find it puzzling.
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yes you don't understand :D
maybe if you change "how" into "why" you would understand what I'm saying. Why not make prostitution legal in a country where porn is ?
Wwanderer said:
I didn't understand that you were talking about that. Where did you say anything about changing laws in this thread?
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the word "legal" comes from law, depending on the law something can be legal or not, and laws can obviously be changed (many seem to forget that).
 
e-smile said:
Making prostitution legal has many advantages and the usual "anti" are mainly using morality arguments, those same arguments should be the same for porn.
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I agree. The twisted thing is that when arguing with American people, some of them really seem to think that stripping and porn are legit and ok jobs, but that prostitution is bad.
If its just a question of legal matters, i like to point out to them that they have legal brothels in Nevada in their own country :D
 
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