Differences Between Sugar Dating And Traditional P4p

[dreams]

. We're busy and we ain't got time for dating and shit like that.

Oh Dear..
Why can't you write "I" rather than "We"? Are you presumptuous enough to think that you can speak for all our community?? If so, as the previous posts show, you are delusional...

 

[Helena West]

Imo, a key difference between sugar dating and escorting is that any reasonably normal monger can have a satisfactory ordinary p4p date with any reasonably normal escort, but SDs and SBs must have a significant degree of personal compatibility (i.e., they *both* have to enjoy the other's company) for a satisfactory sugar arrangement. Of course, personal compatibility (or lack thereof) makes a pure escort appointment/service better (or worse) and is important in that sense, but it isn't essential to at least a minimally satisfactory traditional p4p transaction.

Moreover, for a sugar arrangement to work well, this personable compatibility must be sufficient for both people to enjoy seeing each other for multiple and reasonably extended (a few hours at a time at the *minimum*) dates that include sharing a variety of activities together.

-Ww

There is what seems to be a growing trend in escort work of "Girlfriend experience," that seems to a space where both people can authentically enjoy each other. The companions have done a LOT of self work. They dates are also oriented towards longer engagements... Several hours, much of it which may be spent strolling through the park, or going to a theatrical production... with chemistry flowing easily.

I've personally had some of these where I feel like I am his muse, and he is my sponsor, where he motivates me to be my best self, and I inspire him to be his. It's a lot like the SD/SB relationship but clearly understood and free of ambiguity as to terms and values.

-HW
www.helenawest.com
Twitter @MeetHelenaWest

 

[chaztagster]

Perhaps you guys can share some wisdom. Bear with me - There's a bit of background info before the question:
Last year, I made a trip to Russia. During my time there, I visited a few strip clubs, which pretty much operate as brothels. More than anything, what blew me away was the incredible GFE. Though I don't speak Russian, I felt like I kind of got to know these women - Super-friendly, non-pushy, stunningly beautiful, pole dancers and topless waitresses. I am smart enough to know that these women would not spend the evening with me if I weren't spending money, but they made it very easy for me to suspend disbelief. You know the old joke about "In politics, if you can fake sincerity, you've got it made?" These girls should run for office.
I spent some "intimate time" with two of the girls. And wow - GFE - We continued to chat for weeks. Short messages, photos, little video snippets. Nothing pornographic. Cute stuff. I realized that this is the opening for some sugar dating.
But of course, on my first attempt at sugar dating, I screwed up. One of the girls shares a hobby with me. (Let's say skiing for the sake of the story). After I got home, I asked her if she'd like to come on a particularly awesome skiing trip with me and we started to make arrangements. She needed me to buy her flights. I bought her flights. She needed money to arrange her visa. I sent money. And suddenly, one day, she stopped responding to my messages and calls.
Fortunately, there was still enough time for me to find another friend to join me on the skiing trip. I got a refund on the flights that I had bought for the Russian girl. My only loss was the money for the visa. I wasn't hurt, so I'm not crying about it. But I did learn the truth that I am a trusting and unworldly person playing a game that I don't understand, with ruthless, scheming, beautiful, Russian strippers. LOLZ.
Fast forward to January this year - I received an unexpected message from the other girl: "Hey remember me? How are you doing? etc ..." This girl is *wow*. My guess is that she was a serious gymnast who didn't quite make the major leagues. When she was performing in the club I realized that every single pole dancer that I had ever seen until then was an amateur. With her funny character, her jolie laide face and her extraordinary, muscular body, she's dream material for me. Oh, and she fucks like a banshee...
So, I have arranged to go to Russia again. We've confirmed dates. She told me to get a local SIM for my phone and send her the number as soon as I arrive. How shall I open the discussion about terms of our sugar relationship? Do I just say "Hey. How much do you charge per hour / day? What shall we do together?"
Ultimately, that's what we need to agree, I guess, but that seems too blunt. I can't shake off the feeling that our relationship is more than a transaction, and yet somehow I know it's just a transaction.

 

[User#8628]

Perhaps you guys can share some wisdom. Bear with me - There's a bit of background info before the question:
Last year, I made a trip to Russia. During my time there, I visited a few strip clubs, which pretty much operate as brothels. More than anything, what blew me away was the incredible GFE. Though I don't speak Russian, I felt like I kind of got to know these women - Super-friendly, non-pushy, stunningly beautiful, pole dancers and topless waitresses. I am smart enough to know that these women would not spend the evening with me if I weren't spending money, but they made it very easy for me to suspend disbelief. You know the old joke about "In politics, if you can fake sincerity, you've got it made?" These girls should run for office.
I spent some "intimate time" with two of the girls. And wow - GFE - We continued to chat for weeks. Short messages, photos, little video snippets. Nothing pornographic. Cute stuff. I realized that this is the opening for some sugar dating.
But of course, on my first attempt at sugar dating, I screwed up. One of the girls shares a hobby with me. (Let's say skiing for the sake of the story). After I got home, I asked her if she'd like to come on a particularly awesome skiing trip with me and we started to make arrangements. She needed me to buy her flights. I bought her flights. She needed money to arrange her visa. I sent money. And suddenly, one day, she stopped responding to my messages and calls.
Fortunately, there was still enough time for me to find another friend to join me on the skiing trip. I got a refund on the flights that I had bought for the Russian girl. My only loss was the money for the visa. I wasn't hurt, so I'm not crying about it. But I did learn the truth that I am a trusting and unworldly person playing a game that I don't understand, with ruthless, scheming, beautiful, Russian strippers. LOLZ.
Fast forward to January this year - I received an unexpected message from the other girl: "Hey remember me? How are you doing? etc ..." This girl is *wow*. My guess is that she was a serious gymnast who didn't quite make the major leagues. When she was performing in the club I realized that every single pole dancer that I had ever seen until then was an amateur. With her funny character, her jolie laide face and her extraordinary, muscular body, she's dream material for me. Oh, and she fucks like a banshee...
So, I have arranged to go to Russia again. We've confirmed dates. She told me to get a local SIM for my phone and send her the number as soon as I arrive. How shall I open the discussion about terms of our sugar relationship? Do I just say "Hey. How much do you charge per hour / day? What shall we do together?"
Ultimately, that's what we need to agree, I guess, but that seems too blunt. I can't shake off the feeling that our relationship is more than a transaction, and yet somehow I know it's just a transaction.

Sad to hear about that first experience. But keep that in mind and never forget about it.
You would definitely need to be upfront with the next girl, so she knows what is expected from her and what she'll be getting out of it, but there is no need to be crude about it, call it sugercoating but things are just better if you make it sound classy. Say something like "i enjoy your company a lot and would like to spend a whole day together to date, go to a nice restaurant, have fun and relax. Of course i know your time is valueable so i was wondering what kind of compensation you have in mind for that?" Much better than "what do you charge to be together the whole day?" right?

If you stay around the area where she works its maybe safe to give her the money upfront but if there will be multiple day arrangements and a lot of money involved, try to pay it in bits of part of the money after the deal, in case she also tries to disappear.

 

[chaztagster]

I approached the topic of compensation gracefully. She replied that she doesn't want compensation, since it's not work and she wants to spend time with me ... She asked me if I could help her by importing a product that's expensive in Russia so that she could buy it from me at the overseas price. I took that as a hint that I could offer her the item as a gift. Done.
There's a risk that she could take the gift and run, but my gut says that we'll have a GFE-style date that won't leave me feeling short changed.
Have you come across girls who prefer to request gifts rather than negotiating for cash? My first encounter with this girl was for cash, so I'm a little surprised. If this were Japan or my home country, I might have a better read on the situation.

 

[buffet]

...
So, I have arranged to go to Russia again. We've confirmed dates. She told me to get a local SIM for my phone and send her the number as soon as I arrive. How shall I open the discussion about terms of our sugar relationship? Do I just say "Hey. How much do you charge per hour / day? What shall we do together?"
Ultimately, that's what we need to agree, I guess, but that seems too blunt. I can't shake off the feeling that our relationship is more than a transaction, and yet somehow I know it's just a transaction.

You've already met her, had sex with her and now she wants you to come visit her in Russia again. I don't think you need to worry about how to open the discussion. She wants you to come for a reason and she will give you openings to neatly segue into a discussion of what she wants. Perhaps she wants marriage and kids and a life in another country - she'll talk about friends who recently got married, how she doesn't see a future for herself in Russia, how she's a traditional woman at heart and wants to be a wife and mother instead of working. Perhaps she wants a sugar relationship - she'll talk about how she can't afford to enroll/continue in university, how her apartment is small/in a dangerous area but it's all she can afford on her salary, how she loves your mutual hobby but hasn't been able to pursue it in the past year because it's expensive in Russia. All you need to do is listen to her and then respond. If she wants a sugar relationship, you can reply to her conversation naturally with how important school is and you would be happy to help her with that, or you don't want her to live in a dangerous area; how much more is the rent is a good area, or you know how much she loves her hobby; you want to help her continue it.
Before you go, think about how you will respond if she wants a real relationship. And think what you want if she wants a sugar relationship - what you're willing to give her and what you need from her. Believe me, she was something in mind already along one of those two avenues.
As for the gift, maybe she can sell it on in Russia and feels a lot better internally if you are enabling her in a business than if you are just handing her cash after a sex-filled holiday. My current sugar baby asked to change our relationship after the first few months. She no longer wants to receive cash. Instead she wants me to buy her presents once in a while. I'm happier with that as well. It makes both of us feel like it's a more traditional/less transactional relationship.
And let us know how it goes!!

 

[chaztagster]

And let us know how it goes!!

I had a great time, but with an odd twist at the end. We had a great first date - Spent an afternoon playing the romantic couple, and then she stayed overnight. It was incredible. She came to see me again on my last evening in Russia and spent the whole night with me again. The next morning, when we were about to part ways, she told me she urgently needed to borrow about $1,000 or face eviction from her apartment. Oh gosh ... The story might be BS, but who knows.
I decided to give her the money - not as a loan but as a gift. It's not an unreasonable fee for the time that she spent with me, but I would have preferred it if we had negotiated something up front. Anyway, she was delighted. Since then, she has sent me some affectionate messages, but I think it's time for me to disengage. She's fun but messed-up. I don't think I can handle this over the long term.

 

[TAG Manager]

I had a great time, but with an odd twist at the end. We had a great first date - Spent an afternoon playing the romantic couple, and then she stayed overnight. It was incredible. She came to see me again on my last evening in Russia and spent the whole night with me again. The next morning, when we were about to part ways, she told me she urgently needed to borrow about $1,000 or face eviction from her apartment. Oh gosh ... The story might be BS, but who knows.
I decided to give her the money - not as a loan but as a gift. It's not an unreasonable fee for the time that she spent with me, but I would have preferred it if we had negotiated something up front. Anyway, she was delighted. Since then, she has sent me some affectionate messages, but I think it's time for me to disengage. She's fun but messed-up. I don't think I can handle this over the long term.

Thanks for the follow-up... Disengaging is probably the wiser move her. That last minute 'I need help' is really off putting. Saying something up front would have been much better.

 

[User#8628]

I had a great time, but with an odd twist at the end. We had a great first date - Spent an afternoon playing the romantic couple, and then she stayed overnight. It was incredible. She came to see me again on my last evening in Russia and spent the whole night with me again. The next morning, when we were about to part ways, she told me she urgently needed to borrow about $1,000 or face eviction from her apartment. Oh gosh ... The story might be BS, but who knows.
I decided to give her the money - not as a loan but as a gift. It's not an unreasonable fee for the time that she spent with me, but I would have preferred it if we had negotiated something up front. Anyway, she was delighted. Since then, she has sent me some affectionate messages, but I think it's time for me to disengage. She's fun but messed-up. I don't think I can handle this over the long term.

I really dont understand why she'd want to play games if you offered her to make an arrangement upfront...