Favourite Anti-pua Methods?

[User#16452]

Two scenarios that happened today and how I handled them. In both cases the guy did not get the hint the first time. I'd like to know your suggests for making it obvious I am not interested.

Scene one, bar interior
I sit down and can see the man to my left eyeing me in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I look through the menu, without making eye contact with anyone.
Him: The pizza is good here.
Me: *ignores*
*pause*
Him: The pizza is on the back page.
Woman: He's talking to you.
Me: I'm not looking for pizza.
*man gives up*

Scene two, street exterior
Japanese man approaches me. I never stop walking.
Me: *cross sign*
Him: Do you speak English?
Me: Dame *cross sign*
Him: Do you have a boyfriend?
*man gives up*

While these each as isolated incidents might not seem so terrible, I was in the bar only 20 minutes for a quick bite and walking home for 10. You can imagine how longer periods might play out and how these incidents can add up over a short period of going about my daily life.

In both cases the guys didn't have even the slightest indication that I wanted to talk to them, let alone were interested in them sexually. I do feel that by giving "polite" shows of disinterest it leaves the door open for them to repeat this on the next woman they see. While shouting "I'm not fucking interested" is appealing mentally, I can imagine it might be tiring physically when repeated on a daily basis.

(Also, please don't make this another standard PUA bashing thread. I just want suggestions on how to handle this.)

 

[seeusmile]

You poor soul .

it's like you're shoveling sand against the tide here.
Stay strong! I can't really suggest an effective to stop the barrage of nampas completely if you have the blessing of being a man magnet.

but im sure any mention of 'aids, sti/std, hep a.b.c-z' would have them running for the hills

 

[roots reggae]

I suggest you contact TAG's guru of grossness, majimekun, for tips on repulsing human contact.

 

[AuroraV]

Japanese guys usually get the hint if you just ignore them--completely. No eye contact, acknowledgment, no answering them. That's what most Japanese women seem to do and the guys usually get it and move on. Some of the more persistent assholes will follow you for a bit, but usually not looking at them or talking to them gets them to give up. Most of the time they just move on, maybe a little disappointed but usually without noticeable butthurt. Just if it happens close to home, make sure u don't let them see exactly where you are walking.

The same technique doesn't always work well on Westerners, for me at least. I am minding my own business but they approach, so I ignore them but they get up in my face. As in, if I am sitting on a public bench or on a seat in the train, they will stand right in front of me as close as possible and try to force me to talk. I continue doing what I was doing or looking at something else as if they don't exist. The worst is when they try to interrupt my conversation with another person, especially by physically stepping in. I usually just never make eye contact and continue looking at and talking to the person I was originally with. But some get very rude or physically aggressive. Some guys also pull that PUA crap of trying to talk down to you to make you feel insecure about yourself but I just do the same thing back to them. Yeah it makes them pissy but i don't really care if i hurt their feelings because they were jerks to begin with.

One Justin Beiber look-a-like thought it would be funny to try to yank me by the arm to pull me over to him, so I punched him. His rejected-from-the-backstreet-boys-looking-friend laughed at him and then tried the same thing like it was some kind of game, so I put him in a wristlock and punched him too. It sounds funny in retrospect but I was pretty irritated at the time.

lol two funny things that work on PUA like the exact opposite of a charm:
1) Pretending you don't speak English and can't understand a damn word they are saying (if being approached in English)
2) If the guy is really annoying just go unabashedly straight into gold-digger mode. Hilarity at its finest.
3) If the guy starts getting way too sexually suggestive, talk REALLY openly about just having had some satisfying dick and how you're gonna hit it again later on, or tomorrow, or whenever. If you really wanna fuck with them, make up some story like how your boyfriend is a complete and total fuck-up except that his dick's got like these magical powers that keep you coming back. Bonus points if you can play it like, "I'm so sexually satisfied but really emotionally empty right now, I could really use a friend who I can vent to about things, you seem like such a good listener!"

Something I have wanted to try but haven't been brave enough to/don't think I could do it without laughing:
1) Engaging in his conversation and start picking your nose right in front of him.
2) Keep a folder of either "boys love" manga art or gay porn screen caps on your phone and make sure to noticeably flick through those while interacting with him. If he asks about it, you can be like, "I think this is so hot, have you ever tried it? I would love to watch."

 

[Wwanderer]

Being an elderly unattractive male works wonders in repelling PUA for me.

-Ww

 

[vargas]

OMG I totally get yoouuuuu! Every damn day all these young women keep coming up asking where I'm frommmm. I just want to scream "go away!" because they obviously aren't in my league and I'll be damned if I waste a breath on basic politeness to my inferiors.

What I recommend is perfecting a look of utter disdain, like you just stepped in a giant pile of steaming shit in your brand new Louboutins. Do this without a word, just a glare, and I guarantee the annoying person will go away.

 

[User#16452]

OMG I totally get yoouuuuu! Every damn day all these young women keep coming up asking where I'm frommmm. I just want to scream "go away!" because they obviously aren't in my league and I'll be damned if I waste a breath on basic politeness to my inferiors.

Do you stop to every tout who approaches you? Of course not. PUAs are selling dick but I'm not looking for dick. I don't even give them any indication I am looking for dick.

If they can't read basic "I want to be left alone" body language, why should I be polite to them? Besides, from the scenes above, you can see that being polite does not work, these guys just try another line.

What I recommend is perfecting a look of utter disdain, like you just stepped in a giant pile of steaming shit in your brand new Louboutins. Do this without a word, just a glare, and I guarantee the annoying person will go away.

 

[zer0ed]

In Japan, a face mask seems to do wonders, hard to eat in however. Or:

They should just make a t-shirt that says something like: "If I'm not smiling at you leave me the f*** alone"

 

[vargas]

Do you stop to every tout who approaches you? Of course not. PUAs are selling dick but I'm not looking for dick. I don't even give them any indication I am looking for dick

These guys don't even sound like PUAs, just normal guys who see a pretty girl and want to get to know her.

I don't stop for touts but I do find a "no thank you" goes a long way, and I find it difficult to be too annoyed since most are genuinely friendly.

And yeah bet that video fits you to a T. All of the haughtiness of a princess with none of the manners.

 

[Anna Summer]

If a 'no thank you' would just work but it doesn't all the time
Yes many guys are nice and will leave you alone but @User#16452 is talking about the other half not doing so even if you indicate not being interested. There's a difference.

And to add: a while a go @Sinapse made a long post about PUA and that it is not mainly to get any girl in your bed but about finding someone you have chemistry with.
If they just thought she is pretty and wanting to get to know her, I'm sure they would either approach her in a different way or respect her rejection which would inditcate that they probably wouldn't get along with each other anyways.

IMO it says a lot about a guy who is persistent and not accepting a no but still continuing, not getting the hint. Respect goes a long way. That applies for both parties, men and women.

 

[rick]

In both cases the guys didn't have even the slightest indication that I wanted to talk to them, let alone were interested in them sexually. I do feel that by giving "polite" shows of disinterest it leaves the door open for them to repeat this on the next woman they see. While shouting "I'm not fucking interested" is appealing mentally, I can imagine it might be tiring physically when repeated on a daily basis.

Why do you feel the need to be rude? It's not exactly going to dissuade guys from talking to other women.

And why do guys/girls need an indication of interest from the opposite party before they start talking to them?

All of the haughtiness of a princess with none of the manners.

Yeah, I can't take Jenna Marbles seriously either. Girls like that are the very definition of b a s i c.

 

[User#16452]

These guys don't even sound like PUAs, just normal guys who see a pretty girl and want to get to know her.

True, in retrospect these are likely not PUAs, perhaps more "Pick-Up Amatures".

And you are correct, they likely just saw a woman they wanted to get to know. However, that is the problem. They didn't consider that I was just going about my daily life, nor that I am unlikely to be interested in a guy pushing 60 or someone drunk.

I'm not a "free for all". Asking that my time be my own to spend as I want, with no obligation to give it to everyone who asks for me to listen to something I am not interested in is not unreasonable I think. Besides, stopping to talk to one of these guys and engage them in polite conversation will just give the wrong idea (believe me, I have tried). I'm a bitch if I do and bitch if I don't.

I don't stop for touts but I do find a "no thank you" goes a long way, and I find it difficult to be too annoyed since most are genuinely friendly.

I gave these guys a rude "no" and they still kept trying, why on Earth would a polite "no" work any better?

And yeah bet that video fits you to a T. All of the haughtiness of a princess with none of the manners.

That's clearly a joke video, the woman being a well known comedic YouTuber.

I didn't realise wanting to go about my daily life in peace was too much to ask for, if this makes me "haughty" and bad mannered.

 

[User#16452]

And why do guys/girls need an indication of interest from the opposite party before they start talking to them?

This is social skills 101.

Regarding rude, see above.

 

[rick]

If a 'no thank you' would just work but it doesn't all the time
Yes many guys are nice and will leave you alone but @User#16452 is talking about the other half not doing so even if you indicate not being interested. There's a difference.

And to add: a while a go @Sinapse made a long post about PUA and that it is not mainly to get any girl in your bed but about finding someone you have chemistry with.
If they just thought she is pretty and wanting to get to know her, I'm sure they would either approach her in a different way or respect her rejection which would inditcate that they probably wouldn't get along with each other anyways.

IMO it says a lot about a guy who is persistent and not accepting a no but still continuing, not getting the hint. Respect goes a long way. That applies for both parties, men and women.

Most PUAs, including S, advocate being persistent - walking along with a girl and monologuing even if she isn't talking to you is taught and accepted as part of the game. Only when they are told things like "Don't follow me" or pushed away do they stop.

Finding someone you have chemistry with doesn't mean backing off at the first sign of a refusal.

Personally, if a girl tells me off the bat she isn't interested, or flat out ignores me, I'm not going to bother at all.

 

[rick]

I didn't realise wanting to go about my daily life in peace was too much to ask for, if this makes me "haughty" and bad mannered.

I'm not going to make any judgements since I don't know anything about you, but growing up in cities my whole life, I've never expected a 'peaceful' night out.

The fact is, everyone has to experience unwanted social interactions on a daily basis in any large city in the world. They will happen when you go out. Not just to you as a woman, but to everyone. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

 

[User#16452]

Most PUAs, including S, advocate being persistent - walking along with a girl and monologuing even if she isn't talking to you is taught and accepted as part of the game. Only when they are told things like "Don't follow me" or pushed away do they stop.

If we were to replace "girl" with "person" here, this almost sounds like harrassment, hmm...

Finding someone you have chemistry with doesn't mean backing off at the first sign of a refusal.

Huh? I fail to see the connection here.

I'm not going to make any judgements since I don't know anything about you, but growing up in cities my whole life, I've never expected a 'peaceful' night out.

The fact is, everyone has to experience unwanted social interactions on a daily basis in any large city in the world. They will happen when you go out. Not just to you as a woman, but to everyone. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

If I'm in a area populated with restaurants or night entertainment then of course I expect to be approached about this. But walking down an empty street? Getting something to eat? I wouldn't expect any other type of promotion in these places so why do guys feel the need to "promote" themselves to me? I'm not in a singles bar or club or eyeing up the men around me.

 

[Anna Summer]

Most PUAs, including S, advocate being persistent - walking along with a girl and monologuing even if she isn't talking to you is taught and accepted as part of the game. Only when they are told things like "Don't follow me" or pushed away do they stop.

So when I say 'no thank you' or plain 'no' it is not accepted as a rejection and indicator to just continue? I may have missed something here... 'Don't follow me' is imo the same as a 'no or no thank you'...

 

[rick]

If we were to replace "girl" with "person" here, this almost sounds like harrassment, hmm...

Huh? I fail to see the connection here.

Anna was making a distinction between PUA and 'rude approaches' in that PUA is polite and respectful - I'm saying that both often push the envelope more than people may enjoy in the hope of getting a favourable interaction.

If I'm in a area populated with restaurants or night entertainment then of course I expect to be approached about this. But walking down an empty street? Getting something to eat? I wouldn't expect any other type of promotion in these places so why do guys feel the need to "promote" themselves to me? I'm not in a singles bar or club or eyeing up the men around me.

Simply because you are a young woman, blonde and hourglassy, and they want to talk to you. They don't know how you'd feel about being approached. Just because you don't expect or want something doesn't mean it won't happen.

Also, sometimes I'm just being nice to people. If I offer the girl sitting next to me at the bar a cigarette, it doesn't mean I want to be her friend, it doesn't even mean I'm interested.

So when I say 'no thank you' or plain 'no' it is not accepted as a rejection and indicator to just continue? I may have missed something here... 'Don't follow me' is imo the same as a 'no or no thank you'...

http://attractionjapan.com/your-agenda-is-the-most-important/
I was loitering around Shinjuku with a couple buddies shooting the shit and talking to girls. One walks by and we all notice her, but my buddies are a bit intimidated. Fuck it, I go in. Follow her, and she’s smiling but it requires a bit of monologuing and persistence before she starts responding fully. I keep talking with her down the staircase and into the bookstore as she’s going to meet someone. We exchange LINE contacts and some dude shows up. He gets really awkward about it and asks if I’m her friend or if I’m doing nampa. I chuckle, wish the two of them well and head off.

This isn't a straight up refusal, but would probably fall under J's 'polite ignoring' category

 

[User#16452]

http://attractionjapan.com/your-agenda-is-the-most-important/
I was loitering around Shinjuku with a couple buddies shooting the shit and talking to girls. One walks by and we all notice her, but my buddies are a bit intimidated. Fuck it, I go in. Follow her, and she’s smiling but it requires a bit of monologuing and persistence before she starts responding fully. I keep talking with her down the staircase and into the bookstore as she’s going to meet someone. We exchange LINE contacts and some dude shows up. He gets really awkward about it and asks if I’m her friend or if I’m doing nampa. I chuckle, wish the two of them well and head off.

Wow, these guys are obtuse. This reads to me that she felt awkward and gave him her contact just so that he would be gone by the time she met her friend.

 

[rick]

Wow, these guys are obtuse. This reads to me that she felt awkward and gave him her contact just so that he would be gone by the time she met her friend.

Sinapse wrote that, they did go out on a date later.

I'm just telling Anna that making chemistry doesn't mean being 'polite' or taking refusals as they are in many people's eyes.

 

[User#16452]

I'm just telling Anna that making chemistry doesn't mean being 'polite' or taking refusals as they are in many people's eyes.

I do realise you were replying to Anna here but as I said before, this does not make sense to me. I've never felt that anyone who doesn't respect my boundaries is creating good chemistry and I fail to see why you keep repeating this. What am I missing?

 

[vondoom]

thing is that you just dont go and talk to people here in the first place... also not in bars (often especially not in bars, because a lot of people go there, because they dont want to talk), or other places... there are enough specific places where people go to talk to others and places where people go, because they expect to get talked to/hit on...
i dont think there is any method... i get talked to a lot and usually dont reply, or say something that clearly indicates that i dont want to talk (and that isnt even a nanpa scenario), but people keep talking... probably getting rude is the only method there is, but i guess as a girl, even that wont work...

 

[Sinapse]

So here's the issue

1. Women are going to be approached. By men, both PUAs and random guys off the street, and in varying amounts of annoyingness. This is a fact of life, just like the weather, and it would probably be good to get used to it (and you seem to have a good defense for it).
2. Some (especially the more attractive ones) reward persistence.. such as the girl here:

I was loitering around Shinjuku with a couple buddies shooting the shit and talking to girls. One walks by and we all notice her, but my buddies are a bit intimidated. Fuck it, I go in. Follow her, and she’s smiling but it requires a bit of monologuing and persistence before she starts responding fully. I keep talking with her down the staircase and into the bookstore as she’s going to meet someone. We exchange LINE contacts and some dude shows up. He gets really awkward about it and asks if I’m her friend or if I’m doing nampa. I chuckle, wish the two of them well and head off.

That's actually not the entire story.. as always, some of it is lost over text. She actually even told me her boyfriend was coming to meet her. BUT they key here is that she was smiling, looking at me, and listening the whole time, even if she's saying nothing or even being verbally dismissive. She started responding after some monologuing, and after talking to her for a bit she gave me her phone #. She later told me over texting that it wasn't actually her bf. The girl later came out on a date, we had a great time, and I ended up sleeping with her that night. She even asked me "Do you always nampa in Shinjuku?" Girls aren't idiots, but they do certainly reward persistence. So you tell me, was she trying to get rid of me? If so, what happened? Why did she happily come meet me and sleep with me?

Now my approach would not be like this on most Western women - they tend to be pretty upfront and clear in the very beginning of the interaction and often mean what they say. If I spoke to a Western woman such as yourself, and you weren't interested (highly unlikely ), it would likely last no longer than the interactions above, except probably be a bit more interesting. However, it is different with Japanese women, and ESPECIALLY high status / attractive and especially kyaba / night worker women in Japan. They WILL give their numbers out / meet you / sleep with you on the same night, but almost never if you give up instantly and have a weak approach. That just isn't going to cut it.

Now, in the examples you gave up there in the OP, to be honest they seem very brief and inoffensive. I can't really think of any way to make those encounters any shorter as they are pretty much the minimal length to tell a guy you're not interested. You could expect the whole world to bend to your will (of not being approached at all in public) but I'm gonna skip to the end of that movie and ruin the ending for you - it's just not going to happen. I know at times this may suck, and I feel for you. But there is no way to know if a girl is interested or uninterested without making an approach. Even something you said reinforces this point:

They didn't consider that... I am unlikely to be interested in a guy pushing 60 or someone drunk.

The implication here is that, if you WERE interested in a guy pushing 60 or drunk, it would be acceptable, and on the other hand, ONLY guys who are drunk or pushing 60 shouldn't approach. In other words, approaches are okay, as long as it's someone you like. This basic phrasing popped up in that one thread a while back where people asked girls on this board how they felt about getting approached, and it pretty much came down to that. "If I'm interested in the guy and he's nice and respectful, its ok". Well.. there is no way of knowing what you're interested in without approaching. So, my suggestion to you is that you're doing fine and probably just about the fastest way of getting out of these (inevitable) interactions as you can.

 

[User#16452]

So here's the issue

1. Women are going to be approached. By men, both PUAs and random guys off the street, and in varying amounts of annoyingness. This is a fact of life, just like the weather, and it would probably be good to get used to it (and you seem to have a good defense for it).

Oh. If only men were in control of their actions and could make an effort to stop doing things women don't like.

Regardless, I don't want to "get used to" something annoying, hence looking for solutions here.

2. Some (especially the more attractive ones) reward persistence.. such as the girl here:

That's actually not the entire story.. as always, some of it is lost over text. She actually even told me her boyfriend was coming to meet her. BUT they key here is that she was smiling, looking at me, and listening the whole time, even if she's saying nothing or even being verbally dismissive. She started responding after some monologuing, and after talking to her for a bit she gave me her phone #. She later told me over texting that it wasn't actually her bf. The girl later came out on a date, we had a great time, and I ended up sleeping with her that night. She even asked me "Do you always nampa in Shinjuku?" Girls aren't idiots, but they do certainly reward persistence. So you tell me, was she trying to get rid of me? If so, what happened? Why did she happily come meet me and sleep with me?

As you said, I didn't have the whole story, nor was I there. But it does show how situations can be mis-read.

Now my approach would not be like this on most Western women - they tend to be pretty upfront and clear in the very beginning of the interaction and often mean what they say. If I spoke to a Western woman such as yourself, and you weren't interested (highly unlikely ),

Don't break your arm jerking yourself off here. I've posted before that I think you approached me at one time and I turned you down. I'm not looking for a boyfriend or a hook-up so your chances are zero.

it would likely last no longer than the interactions above, except probably be a bit more interesting. However, it is different with Japanese women, and ESPECIALLY high status / attractive and especially kyaba / night worker women in Japan. They WILL give their numbers out / meet you / sleep with you on the same night, but almost never if you give up instantly and have a weak approach. That just isn't going to cut it.

Now, in the examples you gave up there in the OP, to be honest they seem very brief and inoffensive. I can't really think of any way to make those encounters any shorter as they are pretty much the minimal length to tell a guy you're not interested. You could expect the whole world to bend to your will (of not being approached at all in public) but I'm gonna skip to the end of that movie and ruin the ending for you - it's just not going to happen. I know at times this may suck, and I feel for you. But there is no way to know if a girl is interested or uninterested without making an approach.

But there is! Look for eye contact, body language and consider the location. Is this somewhere someone comes to meet someone new? While I can perhaps understand misreading the situation once, there is no excuse for twice (which always happens).

Even something you said reinforces this point:

The implication here is that, if you WERE interested in a guy pushing 60 or drunk, it would be acceptable, and on the other hand, ONLY guys who are drunk or pushing 60 shouldn't approach. In other words, approaches are okay, as long as it's someone you like. This basic phrasing popped up in that one thread a while back where people asked girls on this board how they felt about getting approached, and it pretty much came down to that. "If I'm interested in the guy and he's nice and respectful, its ok". Well.. there is no way of knowing what you're interested in without approaching. So, my suggestion to you is that you're doing fine and probably just about the fastest way of getting out of these (inevitable) interactions as you can.

I don't care if Prince Charming himself approaches me. While he might think to himself "Oh, maybe I'm the type of guy she might be interested in" and perhaps this (and positive body language etc) would all give him a yes in his head, surely the aforementioned men must have realised they were wasting their (and my) time? Prince Charming might think he has a chance and approach for that reason, there's no way these guys could've thought that.

 

[vondoom]

synapse is probably only better at reading people than others... which is a good thing for him, of course (and others who can do that)...
otherwise, again i have to say that cold approaching is absolutely unwanted here (and yes, hes right, it will probably never stop), even most couples dont go out together, or they got one specific place they go together and a few others where they go alone (and thats not because they want to get nanpaed＾＾)...