first date with Japanese girl(s) advice

[GreyHair]

sorry in advance if I should have posted this in the NAMPA/PUA section, as I wasn't sure. I've been chatting with two girls from apps like bumble and tinder, got their LINE and managed to set a date for meeting. now as far as I know girls use those app mostly-only looking for sex, even though they might write "no hookups" or "just english lessons" that's probably to look less 'easy'. I'm not sure if that applies to Japan as well since I'm never used those apps here before.

these dates might completely fail since we never actually met before, just seen a few the pictures. for the sake of this discussion however I'm gonna pretend they won't fail because of that.
also, I've been in relationships before (in my country) but I still don't have much experience as far as dating goes, especially not here in Japan.

anyway, I won't be here for much longer (1 month and half) so while using these apps I was looking more for just some casual sex rather than an actual relationship, my question is: how should I push the first date into that direction without ruining everything in case she doesn't want to do any of that right off the bat? Is it "safer" to wait for the second date?
I've seen people suggesting to go to a karaoke and start from there (go for the make out?), never been to one though, i'm awful at singing - probably doesn't matter though - and I'm guessing you just go there, sing, drink and then try to escalate? Does that usually work (if she wants to escalate) or are there better options?

actually, 1 of those 2 girls I'm actually very interested into, so I wouldn't won't to ruin things right from the start. We've talked for a long time just today and apparently she's studying my native language (not English), so I'm fine if she wants to just hang around the city or whatever for the first dates.

regarding that, another thing: what are the most common (and obvious) signals that she wants to go or absolutely doesn't want to go for the same night sex without outright telling me?

the 2nd girl, she lives far away (1 hour by train), and she pretty much invited me to her town but I'm only seeing her in 2 weeks because apparently before then she has plans. (for the weekend, weekdays she works)
also, correct me if I'm wrong, but she mentioned that she lives in a 実家, which as far as i know means she's still living with her parents. if that's true, ending the date IN her house is clearly out of the question.
I'm also not that much into this girl, and I might just run out of time before I meet her 2 or 3 times since she has time only during the weekend apparently. should I just suggest a love hotel the first time I meet her and if she refuses just bail and sayonara.

~a dude

 

[e-smile]

First thing don't try to be a Japanese boyfriend, she knows she's going to meet a foreigner so be yourself and don't be shy. She's not the love of your life so it's ok if it doesn't work.

I wouldn't go to karaoke for a first date, I'd rather chose a place where we can talk and look at each other rather than looking at a screen.

edit : personal info removed

 

[GreyHair]

I saw what you typed before : P sadly I have no female friend who can help me like that.
for the other thing, slowly going towards my apartment at the end of the date, I think it's kind of an issue. mainly because I'm living in a very small building with a lot of even smaller apartments in it (might as well be without walls), they already complained about noise coming from my room so if I bring someone here and be *a lot more noisy* during the night I might get kicked out or something. so coming here I think should be literally the last option, the other options though are either going to some hotel or ask (?) her to go to her place, assuming she is living alone.

 

[e-smile]

I saw what you typed before : P sadly I have no female friend who can help me like that.
for the other thing, slowly going towards my apartment at the end of the date, I think it's kind of an issue. mainly because I'm living in a very small building with a lot of even smaller apartments in it (might as well be without walls), they already complained about noise coming from my room so if I bring someone here and be *a lot more noisy* during the night I might get kicked out or something. so coming here I think should be literally the last option, the other options though are either going to some hotel or ask (?) her to go to her place, assuming she is living alone.

You can indeed be slowly going toward a love hotel rather than you house If you expect some kissing in the way.

 

[GreyHair]

You can indeed be slowly going toward a love hotel rather than you house If you expect some kissing in the way.

if there's no kissing though I'm guessing going towards a love hotel might be a bit too much-too soon / might scare her away?

 

[e-smile]

if there's no kissing though I'm guessing going towards a love hotel might be a bit too much-too soon / might scare her away?

Yeah I wouldn't do that all of a sudden

 

[MikeH]

if there's no kissing though I'm guessing going towards a love hotel might be a bit too much-too soon / might scare her away?

In general Japanese girls are really not into kissing or other forms of public intimacy. But if the dinner/drinks seems to be going nicely I have many times suggested going to the next place and then walked them by the hand to a hotel.

With the ones who live far away it is standard practice to miss the last train so you need to spend the night together anyway. So why not just rest your feet for a short time.

 

[Wwanderer]

Yeah I would do that all of a sudden

I suspect that there was supposed to be a "not" in this sentence, right?

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

With the ones who live far away it is standard practice to miss the last train so you need to spend the night together anyway. So why not just rest your feet for a short time.

Doesn't resting her feet exclude all sorts of interesting kinks!?

-Ww

 

[e-smile]

I suspect that there was supposed to be a "not" in this sentence, right?

-Ww

exactly thanks making me notice that

 

[Wwanderer]

For initiating post-dinner intimacy if things seem to be going well, I'd suggest just asking her in some casual and flirty but direct, honest, respectful and polite way. Imo and experience, this is often a lot better than trying to maneuver or "game" her in some subtle and indirect way. It is definitely not a typical Japanese way to proceed, but she wouldn't be going out with you if she wanted to spend time with a Japanese guy.

-Ww

 

[MikeH]

Doesn't resting her feet exclude all sorts of interesting kinks!?

She can always put her feet up... behind her ears.

 

[GreyHair]

also there's another thing, since I'm the foreigner here and some of them might live in the same city I'm staying at, it feels more natural to ask them to pick a nice place to go drink or eat or whatever. saying something like "since you know this city much much better than me, do you know any nice place we should go to next?"
however I think I've read here that if you don't take the lead you have exactly 0 chances of actually hooking up or doing anything other than eating/drinking? Or at least, low chances, unless she's somehow very open about it.

is that how it is?

For initiating post-dinner intimacy if things seem to be going well, I'd suggest just asking her in some casual and flirty but direct, honest, respectful and polite way-
-Ww

In general Japanese girls are really not into kissing or other forms of public intimacy. But if the dinner/drinks seems to be going nicely I have many times suggested going to the next place and then walked them by the hand to a hotel.

so, just to confirm (pardon my inexperience : P), by "asking her directly" and "I have suggested going to the next place" you mean that after we went to dinner and such, if things seems to go particularly well, I should simply ask her directly "would you like to go to a hotel and spend the night with me" or something along those lines?
I'm not sure if I can be very much "flirty respectful and polite" though, since we'll be most likely talking in Japanese and while my Japanese is decent enough to hold conversations during a date, it's not that great.

 

[DocMcStuffins]

If your a tourist, abd the girl knows it, I think it's ok to play one. Just take the lead before and after.

 

[MikeH]

by "asking her directly" and "I have suggested going to the next place" you mean that after we went to dinner and such, if things seems to go particularly well, I should simply ask her directly "would you like to go to a hotel and spend the night with me" or something along those lines?

While mine and Ww's replies seem to be contradicting each other I believe it is more due to our personal circumstances rather than differences in opinion. As I have come to learn, and pardon me if I am mistaken, while our beloved Ww is a regular visitor in Japan he doesn't live here and communicates with his companions only in English. While on the other hand I live here permanently and usually communicate with Japanese only. (Though there are some ladies I talk with English only and they don't even know I speak fluent Japanese; well, they never asked )

And while this does not necessary mean the ladies we meet are from very different groups it does mean they expect us to act somewhat differently. So normally they would expect a guy speaking English to be more direct and straightforward and the guy speaking Japanese to be more subtle.

However the main line does not differ and is as you already supposed: if you don't take the initiative you will not get anywhere. So while Ww might drop the question directly but I am sure subtly I would just gently lead them to the next place and suddenly and by to the surprise to both of us we would accidentally bump to a love hotel after which I would suggest we take a peek inside.

 

[Wwanderer]

by "asking her directly" and "I have suggested going to the next place" you mean that after we went to dinner and such, if things seems to go particularly well, I should simply ask her directly "would you like to go to a hotel and spend the night with me" or something along those lines?

Well, could be, but you don't have to jump immediately to spending the whole night together and having sex. You could just say something along the lines of, "I'd love to kiss you (or your sexy lips or something). Let's go somewhere private now." She may well not know how much or whether she wants to have sex with your until there has been enough kissing and foreplay for her to feel turned on (or not).

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

While mine and Ww's replies seem to be contradicting each other I believe it is more due to our personal circumstances rather than differences in opinion. As I have come to learn, and pardon me if I am mistaken, while our beloved Ww is a regular visitor in Japan he doesn't live here and communicates with his companions only in English. While on the other hand I live here permanently and usually communicate with Japanese only. (Though there are some ladies I talk with English only and they don't even know I speak fluent Japanese; well, they never asked )

And while this does not necessary mean the ladies we meet are from very different groups it does mean they expect us to act somewhat differently. So normally they would expect a guy speaking English to be more direct and straightforward and the guy speaking Japanese to be more subtle.

I pretty much agree with all of the above and especially the point about how much difference the language makes. One way of looking at it is that vaguely hinting *is* asking politely but directly in Japanese. I'm told that just saying something like, "Let's have coffee together first thing in the morning" is essentially directly asking a woman to have sex with you overnight. Similarly in English, you can ask a woman to spend the night with you or go to a hotel, and it is understood that sex will be involved. You don't have to ask her to let you put your dick in her vagina (or wherever).

A brief tangential tale - Long ago I once tried the coffee in the morning phrase in English on a Japanese woman I met in a bar; she had lived in the US for a few years (and thus spoke English quite well). She laughed (rather loudly) in my face and answered, "Yes, I'm gonna fuck you later tonight, but not if you keep trying to act like a Japanese guy!"

And whether or not @MikeH and I attract and are attracted to different groups of women, I don't know, but for sure I am an unusual person, and the women with whom I enjoy any substantial connection almost always are unusual themselves, so maybe they are rather different.

However the main line does not differ and is as you already supposed: if you don't take the initiative you will not get anywhere. So while Ww might drop the question directly but I am sure subtly I would just gently lead them to the next place and suddenly and by to the surprise to both of us we would accidentally bump to a love hotel after which I would suggest we take a peek inside.

The basic point in such situations, imo, is that by the time she has had dinner with you and perhaps well before that, she has already decided whether or not she is interested in getting physical with you. If she isn't, it is unlikely to happen and is probably better if it doesn't. If she is, all you have to do is allow matters to proceed in some reasonably graceful, rapid and natural way.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

While mine and Ww's replies seem to be contradicting each other I believe it is more due to our personal circumstances rather than differences in opinion. As I have come to learn, and pardon me if I am mistaken, while our beloved Ww is a regular visitor in Japan he doesn't live here and communicates with his companions only in English. While on the other hand I live here permanently and usually communicate with Japanese only. (Though there are some ladies I talk with English only and they don't even know I speak fluent Japanese; well, they never asked )

And while this does not necessary mean the ladies we meet are from very different groups it does mean they expect us to act somewhat differently. So normally they would expect a guy speaking English to be more direct and straightforward and the guy speaking Japanese to be more subtle.

However the main line does not differ and is as you already supposed: if you don't take the initiative you will not get anywhere. So while Ww might drop the question directly but I am sure subtly I would just gently lead them to the next place and suddenly and by to the surprise to both of us we would accidentally bump to a love hotel after which I would suggest we take a peek inside.

True. There are some things you can say in English that you just can not say in Japanese. Even to the same person.

 

[WeebmanAU]

personally think "no hookups" or "just english lessons" statements are accurate most times
don't expect too much lol...

 

[GreyHair]

alright, thanks y'all for the replies!

for public intimacy such as kissing I'm thinking that if we're in Kyoto it won't be a problem late at night considering how most of the streets are pretty much empty.

 

[Sinapse]

I should simply ask her directly "would you like to go to a hotel and spend the night with me"

I reaaaaaally wouldn't recommend saying it this directly, unless she is already sitting in a puddle of her own creation at the restaurant with puppy-dog eyes in your direction. A lot of women will say no to this type of request even if they'd like to join you - such is the nature of the beast.

As I have come to learn, and pardon me if I am mistaken, while our beloved Ww is a regular visitor in Japan he doesn't live here and communicates with his companions only in English. While on the other hand I live here permanently and usually communicate with Japanese only. (Though there are some ladies I talk with English only and they don't even know I speak fluent Japanese; well, they never asked )

And while this does not necessary mean the ladies we meet are from very different groups it does mean they expect us to act somewhat differently. So normally they would expect a guy speaking English to be more direct and straightforward and the guy speaking Japanese to be more subtle.

This is a really good point.

Japanese culture is much more about 空気読む, reading the atmosphere, and obviously also much less direct. Euphemisms like "let's go rest" or "let's go to the next place" work much better and are more culturally sensitive IMO than anything very direct. This applies less the more Westernized the girl is (experience abroad, English ability, etc).

 

[e-smile]

I reaaaaaally wouldn't recommend saying it this directly, unless she is already sitting in a puddle of her own creation at the restaurant with puppy-dog eyes in your direction. A lot of women will say no to this type of request even if they'd like to join you - such is the nature of the beast.



This is a really good point.

Japanese culture is much more about 空気読む, reading the atmosphere, and obviously also much less direct. Euphemisms like "let's go rest" or "let's go to the next place" work much better and are more culturally sensitive IMO than anything very direct. This applies less the more Westernized the girl is (experience abroad, English ability, etc).

I wouldn't say this "voulez vous coucher avec moi ce soir" thing even to a western girl. As you said, even if the girls had this scenario in mind saying it directly like this may turn her off.

It has to happen as an accident, as something not planned even if both know it was planned on both sides (the guy brought extra condoms and the girl had some special personal hygiene and waxing that day).

 

[Wwanderer]

I should simply ask her directly "would you like to go to a hotel and spend the night with me" or something along those lines?

A lot of women will say no to this type of request even if they'd like to join you - such is the nature of the beast.

I wouldn't say this "voulez vous coucher avec moi ce soir" thing even to a western girl. As you said, even if the girls had this scenario in mind saying it directly like this may turn her off.

It has to happen as an accident, as something not planned even if both know it was planned on both sides

I agree that the simple direct approach I mentioned/suggested above will definitely cause you to miss some hook-ups that you could have had by being more indirect and subtle. However, at least for me, it is worth it. Let me try (yet again) to explain why:

Many many men complain long and loud because their FWBs/GFs/SOs/wives and even just partners of the evening act silly/childish, won't say what they mean, outright lie about their intentions/goals, insist on making the simplest situations/interactions complex, seem to relish drama etc etc. That sort of behavior is a large part of what guys mean when they stuff like "No matter how beautiful she is, someone somewhere is tired of her shit." However, it seems that few men realize that they are *selecting* exactly those women who behave in such ways when they willingly/eagerly start off relationships playing such immature (imo) "games" to get into those ladies' pants.

In other words, if you'd like a relationship with a woman who will engage you honestly and directly, tell you what she wants and feels, minimize needless drama in your life, and generally behave like an adult, I think it is better to be honest and direct (but polite and respectful), in other words to treat her in a mature way as an equal from the beginning...about sex and everything else. You may not catch as many fish, so to speak, but you will have a much better chance of ending up with some of the best ones (to my tastes at least). Make sense?

Also, btw, I agree that in Japan, where female sexuality is strongly identified with extreme youth/immaturity in both physical and emotional terms, a direct approach has a lower success rate than for non-Japanese women and than for relatively Westernized Japanese women.

-Ww

 

[GreyHair]

I'd like to ask this: what are your best locations/moves to "force" some lips&tongue action?

as I said, if streets are more or less empty it shouldn't be a problem, but I feel like a more private location like a karaoke boot would make the kissing happen more easily, since it's just the 2 of us. but besides going to a karaoke I don't have many other ideas.
I think someone mentioned walking in a park or something but a) park might not be close to where we are or b) it might completely dark and she probably won't go there.

saying this because I think it's easier (at least, it is for me) to go from making out to sex in love hotel/apartment rather than going directly to the hotel/apartment.

like this date I had recently: I'm in front of her apartment and she has to work in the morning, so I'm not going to convince her to let me stay for the night, but before going I try to kiss her, she's a bit hesitant, we kiss very briefly and then she backs off. we say goodbye
now I couldn't tell if she exactly didn't want to kiss me because she didn't like me [enough to kiss on the first meeting] or because she didn't want to do it there in the open. (very few people around though)

 

[e-smile]

I'd like to ask this: what are your best locations/moves to "force" some lips&tongue action?

as I said, if streets are more or less empty it shouldn't be a problem, but I feel like a more private location like a karaoke boot would make the kissing happen more easily, since it's just the 2 of us. but besides going to a karaoke I don't have many other ideas.
I think someone mentioned walking in a park or something but a) park might not be close to where we are or b) it might completely dark and she probably won't go there.

saying this because I think it's easier (at least, it is for me) to go from making out to sex in love hotel/apartment rather than going directly to the hotel/apartment.

like this date I had recently: I'm in front of her apartment and she has to work in the morning, so I'm not going to convince her to let me stay for the night, but before going I try to kiss her, she's a bit hesitant, we kiss very briefly and then she backs off. we say goodbye
now I couldn't tell if she exactly didn't want to kiss me because she didn't like me [enough to kiss on the first meeting] or because she didn't want to do it there in the open. (very few people around though)

parks are a good location for me.
there are many parks in Tokyo and it's not dark. and yes it's easier to move to a more private place if there was a kiss before.
I prefer the kisses to happen in a neutral place so she can feel safe and able to walk away ... and the same goes for me : if the connection fails to establish like in what happened to you I can switch to friend mode and walk her to the closest station.