Happening Bars Are Ok, But Couple Kissas Are Better

Discussion in 'Restaurants, Clubs & Bars' started by Solong, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    Happening bars are swinger bars, using the more well known term used by the rest of the world. The term "happening" is a Japanese corrupted English term.

    There are 2 kinds of swinger bars in Japan. A Happening Bar and a Couple Kissa Bar.

    Happening bars- allow SINGLE men and women to enter.

    Couple Kissa- is for COUPLES ONLY.

    Couple Kissa are NOW, the only REAL swinger clubs. You must bring a lady. You then EXCHANGE with other couples and that is the GOAL of the club.

    Both types of clubs are MEMBERS ONLY or PRIVATE clubs, that are not open to the general public. You must sign up and pay for membership, and they may or may not allow you to become a member. Some are racist against foreigners, but it depends on the bar.

    Why have Happening Bars become bad?

    5 or more years ago, Happening Bars WERE GOOD and were great for sex orgies. The goal of the bars were to encourage sex orgies. People going to the Happening Bars would come to WATCH or JOIN the sex orgies. A lot of owners of the happening bars were also swingers too.

    NOW, Happening Bars are mostly SCAMs and have become bad. They are now designed to TRICK male customers out of money.

    What happened?

    A combination of things happened, that ended up destroying the original goal of Happening Bars. Primarily, it was certain bad SINGLE Japanese women that slowly DESTROYED them over time.

    Single women entering the Happening Bars do NOT have to pay any entrance fee. So women in happening bars DO NOT CARE about results. The bar is FREE to her. She can go to 5 different ones the same day, all free.

    Certain single Japanese women eventually started to ABUSE the clubs and male customers. Instead of sex, they came for FREE drinks and food, and to cause drama. For those that don't know, bars are often "all you can drink" and food is served at special events.

    These single Japanese women would BAR HOP from happening bar to happening bar. Instead of having sex, they tried to target RICH or well paid Japanese men. Remember, the membership fee (varies) and entrance fee (from 10,000 yen to 15,000 yen ($100 to $150 dollars) for men is very expensive. Mostly well paid men with good jobs can afford the club, minus the occasional tourist and thrill seekers.

    These single Japanese women would try to become GIRLFRIENDS to the best looking guys (even if she is old or ugly) and the guys with the MOST MONEY. They would tell the guy NOT to have sex in the swinger club (destroying the goal of the club), but take her to a hotel. Then she tries to GET MONEY from him directly like a prostitute or indirectly as a paid sex friend.

    These Japanese single happening bar rats, became like a variation of club rats in Roppongi, Shibuya, and Shinjuku. The type you would always see in the same club with nasty attitudes, running scams, or causing drama. Thus destroying any natural fun and the vibe of those clubs.

    These single Japanese women then tried arranging MONEY deals with the Happening Bar. If they brought a male customer, they wanted a 3,000 yen ($30 dollars) COMMISSION FEE. If they stayed at the front of the bar, and PRETEND they were single, they wanted MONEY like a HOSTESS. Often a set fee, per each hour she stays. They also would try to target and get money from any rich guys in the club. Asking for money to do sex, outside the club, like a prostitute or making money deals as a paid escort.

    Instead of enjoying sex, they setup a BUSINESS. She would try to get MONEY either from the happening bar manager AND/OR from the male customer.

    If the happening bar manager refused to pay these single Japanese female extortionists, she would try to CALL the COPS on the happening bar OR try to ruin the bar by warning other women not to come.

    These single Japanese women scammers in the happening bars are the type to have NO regular job. They are using the happening bars to get paid. These women would harass or say negative comments to those women who came just to enjoy sex. Basically try to take indirect control of the happening bar and BLOCK single women that came to enjoy sex.

    The Happening Bar managers and owners began making DEALS and to even RELY on scamming women in the bar to make money. Either they paid these women or these women would INTERFERE with their business.

    Less and less true swingers came to the happening bars. The happening bar managers and owners then began sex SHOWS. Instead of swingers meeting to have sex, they would have a COUPLE have LOUD sex to ENTERTAIN the customers. This is when the Japanese woman makes LOUD FAKE sounds, like in crappy Japanese porn movies, to get everybody's attention. Basically, the Japanese women are like a ACTRESS.

    The list of TRICKS used by the Happening Bars are as follows:

    1. Have hostess females at the front of the bar prentening they are single women wanting sex. They DO NOT have sex, ONLY TALK to men, then LEAVE (and get paid by the manager). If they are pretty, it helps them TRICK more men.

    2. Perform a S&M type show, like tie a naked woman up with rope. There is NO SEX. This is designed to TEASE male customers.

    3. Arrange for a couple to come in and do a sex show. They are ONLY for WATCHING and she will NOT have sex with any other men. She will make lots of LOUD FAKE sounds to get attention and will be more of an ACTRESS.

    4. STEAL the women of any REAL unmarried couples (real swinger couples) that enter the happening bar.

    If a REAL UNMARRIED couple enters the happening bar. Especially if she is young, good looking, or actually has sex then the manager and staff will often try to GET the WOMAN'S CONTACT INFORMATION. They will try to convince her to come by herself, without the man, and WORK for them or the STAFF will try to date and have sex with her.

    The happening bar hostess women pretending to be real single women customers, CAN TRY the SAME TRICK TOO. They will pretend to be her friend, get her information, then try to convince her to join them at the happening bar as a hostess.

    Many men who bring their girlfriends to a happening bar, will have her "STOLEN" by the happening bar managers, staff, or female hostesses.

    The happening bar staff may also try to get her to have sex with a RICH male customer they choose. Basically, TURN HER into a PROSTITUTE for the bar OR his personal sex friend.

    As a happening bar prostitute/hostess, they USE her to bring RICH customers over and over to spend his money at the bar. This is for SELECTED RICH male customers, NOT regular customers. They SPLIT the money they trick out of him with the woman. They may also convince or sell her to work in a DIFFERENT type of club that does blow jobs, escort service, S&M, or does prostitution directly.

    5. Blackmail customers, men or women, who they have contact information on.

    Some happening bar staff will threaten to take your information to your employer, family, or your wife or husband. If you are a woman, they may attempt to turn you into a club prostitute via blackmail. If a man, a staff member (not usually the bar owner) may attempt to blackmail you to get more money for themselves.

    NEVER let ANY happening bar photo copy your ID, or give any real information that they can use like real name, address, or job.

    This includes not just the happening bar staff, but the happening bar HOSTESS women working undercover PRETENDING to be single women customers. These are the most tricky, especially woman to woman. Many women will tell other women way too much information or get tricked thinking they are female friennds.

    6. The happening bar manager and staff LIE to male customers that their bar is a real sex club.

    They tell the male customers that they need to talk with the women at the bar for long periods of time to convince her to have sex. This is a TRICK. The male customers are often talking to happening bar hostesses that have NO intention on having sex. The happening bar hostess will just TALK, TEASE the male customers and tell MORE LIES, collect her money from the manager, and then LEAVE.

    Happening Bars These Days

    Happening bars now consider male customers as suckers (kamo in Japanese) to victimize. Instead of offering sex orgies like years ago, they are out to simply cheat men out of money.

    COUPLE KISSA are the REAL SWINGER bars now. This is because NO single women, NO FAKE hostesses, and no single men are allowed. Bring a lady friend, and you can swap with other couples, many times.

    Spread this information to other foreign swingers in or coming to Japan.
     
    #1 Solong, Feb 24, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
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  2. Santi333

    Santi333 TAG Member

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    Thanks for the information. This is valuable information for those who aren't living in Japan/ tourists and those who have limited information.

    That's too bad that it has come to this. So if you're a single man, there's no chance to see a couple kissa bar then? Or are there single women out there available to accompany you?
     
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  3. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    @Onbail

    Singles, man or woman, are NOT allowed in a couple kissa. You might get an exception, if you are a man bringing 2 women, but even then many places will not allow it.

    As a single guy, you are probably better off going to a private swinger party at a hotel or apartment, organizing your own swinger party, or finding a woman to go to a Couple Kissa with.

    You can also use Adult Friend Finder or Craigslist to help find the right people. It's less direct, but you can use Internet date sites or meet women on the street (start the regular date process) and try to convince them to go to the couple kissa.

    Too many single guys wanting to get into the swinger scene want to be lazy, and want an easy access sex orgy. But it's better for you to develop the skill to convert women to the swinger life style or organize swinger parties with other swingers.

    If you develop the skill to find women willing to do orgies, then you can go to Couple Kissas like Olive 21 in Shinjuku. Couple Kissas cost 5,000 to 7,000 (50 to 70 dollars), but you might swap and have sex with 5 women the same day.

    The Happening Bars will often waste a lot of your money and time, as a single guy. These days, there is often no action in them anyway or lots of time wasting games, and you might score only 1 after going 2 or 3 times to the place. That can mean spending 20,000 yen to 45,000 yen ( 200 to 400 dollars).

    Think about your return on investment. A single guy can get a blow job, in Tokyo, for 3,000 to 4,000 yen (30 to 40 dollars) and sex at around 10,000 yen (100 dollars). In comparison to other countries, those Tokyo prices are outrageous. You can buy sex in Germany and other places in Europe for $30 dollars.

    As a single guy, you are better off not going to Happening Bars that have the goal of scamming or ripping you off. Even if you have an open-minded girlfriend that is up for sex orgies, you would probably want to avoid having Happening Bar staff trying to steal her from you or going there and not finding any other real swinger couples. In most cases, it's better to find a girlfriend and go to a Couple Kissa.
     
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  4. SHOESONLYTRAVEL

    SHOESONLYTRAVEL New Member

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    Edited for review.
     
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  5. Guile

    Guile TAG Member

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    Hello all, this is my 1st post! I stumbled upon this post searching info about HB.

    With my GF we would like to try either HB or CK.

    Solong mentions the following : "NEVER let ANY happening bar photo copy your ID, or give any real information that they can use like real name, address, or job."
    I checked 2 places : "sleeping beauty" (HB) and "Olive21" (CK). They both require a vaild ID to enter.

    What do you think about this?
     
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  6. TokyoButterfly

    TokyoButterfly TAG Member

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    You're not going to get into any legitimate Happening Bar or CK without showing an ID and applying for a membership. My girlfriend and I have been regulars at Sleeping Beauty in the past and we never had a problem with my girlfriend later being approached with invitations to come without me. However, I do agree with most of what the original poster wrote. A Happening Bar is fine as long as you and your lady are thinking of it as just a place to drink all night with the possibility of meeting likeminded couples and occasionally seeing something kind of hot to add a spark to the bedroom later. There have probably been more times that I have been to Sleeping Beauty (or Shinjuku's Beauty and the Beast years ago) and seen no action other than the staff getting playful with regulars or sakura than times that we have been tempted into action with genuine customers. Also, as mentioned before, the single guys who get more aggressive as the morning approaches really ruins the mood to share or get a little friendly.
    My current girlfriend (actually wife now) is very interested in getting involved with other couples, but I would rather take her to a CK or meet a couple randomly than ruin her interest by taking her a HB where she will quite possibly be turned off and discouraged.
     
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  7. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    @Guile

    Between Sleeping Beauty and Olive 21, I would recommend Olive 21. Why?

    Olive 21 is a Couple Kissa and has no inherent intention to steal your girl, scam you with hostesses pretending to be real female customers, or do anything weird with your ID or information.

    Olive just checks to make sure you are legal and your lady friend is of legal age.

    In fact, once you are a member and have a membership card, you can use it to bring other women to Olive without them checking her. They will trust you, as a member. However, you may want to keep quite about this perk and not advertise it so openly.

    What Olive is more concerned about is that you understand basic Japanese and understand their rules. They are more concerned about you not causing any problems with other couples.

    Olive, like most Couple Kissas, are almost guaranteed action and swapping between couples. Do understand that the couples there often prefer under 35 and/or good looking women. If you bring old, ugly, or fat women than you will probably have problems swapping with other couples.

    The other issue with Couple Kissas is that the women you bring must completely understand what is going on sexually and that there will be swapping. Unlike a Happening Bar, couples in a Couple Kissa can be out in the open and going for it, which is clear to see as soon as you walk in. Make sure your woman isn't the type to panic and isn't clueless about what goes on.

    Sleeping Beauty on the other hand, is a Happening Bar. There is NO guaranteed that anything will happen. Many couples are timid, fearful, or immature. They have female staff and undisclosed hostesses working inside.

    Sleeping Beauty will thoroughly check and photocopy the ID or passport of you and your lady friend. They will verify your phone number and address, which can cause some women to panic. Between your ID and passport, it's better to USE your PASSPORT than your alien registration ID.

    They will also thoroughly check each and every woman that you bring and there isn't any trust system for established members.

    There ARE other Happening Bars that do NOT photocopy your ID or passport and don't ask for your phone number and address. Those just check your ID by eye and to make sure you and your lady are of legal age. If you go to Happening Bars, I would recommend those to safeguard your privacy.

    For many swingers, Sleeping Beauty and other Happening Bars are for beginners and as an introduction. If a real swinger couple is in a Happening Bar, they often don't know about Couple Kissas, are older, or they are a married couple/living together and it isn't possible for the club staff or other customers to steal the woman. For real action swapping, swingers are more likely to be found at a Couple Kissa or Swinger Hotel/House Party.
     
    #7 Solong, Apr 24, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
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  8. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Other than the specific places mentioned above, are there other CKs or HBs that anyone here would suggest trying or avoiding?

    Is there a good place/way to look for other places online? (My partner is Japanese, so Japanese language sites are fine, if anyone happens to know of any, but English would be slightly better.)

    -Ww
     
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  9. TokyoButterfly

    TokyoButterfly TAG Member

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    Both my wife and I are open to full swap, but we enjoy the conversation, anticipation and flirting that precedes it. Because of this, places like the old Le Grand Bleu 2 in which one is directed to the shower upon entry and escorted to a room of futons with play in progress is not our best fit. Likewise, happening bars like Sleeping Beauty in which it's all a lot of talking and staring with little genuine play is not our fit either. We are considering hosting casual get togethers at my Tokyo home, but we're looking for genuine couples with some experience and enough personality to maintain others' interest when clothed.
     
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  10. Guile

    Guile TAG Member

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    @Solong thank you for the info.
    We are more into mixing than swapping. Hope that wouldn't be a problem for Olive. But aisde from that, Olive looks way better...
     
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  11. Luna2410

    Luna2410 TAG Member

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    @Solong
    Thank you for the information.
    I'm a single woman and want to go into a happening bar, because I don't think there is a chance for me to find someone to go with me into a Couple Kissa.
    So will there be problems, if I want to enter a happening bar?
    And have all happening bars free entry for women?
     
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  12. Kitty Carr

    Kitty CarrKitty Carr is a Verified Member TAG Member

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    Luna, if you want a single female friend to go with, maybe we could go together? Message me if you like. ;)
     
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  13. Tryjin

    Tryjin TAG Member

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    I am not hitting or anything, but I would be interested to know which one(s) Kittyotodoke recommends/likes?
     
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  14. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Fwiiw, I had a really wild and great time in an HB back in October, despite being the only gaijin there all evening and being old enough to be the father, grandfather at a stretch in some cases, of everyone else in the club. (with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions). It took a little while for the other patrons to get over their surprise (I assume) or dismay (I hope not) at seeing such an old foreign guy in their midst, but after a while and with the wonderful help of my (Japanese) date, they became *very* "friendly" indeed.

    So, despite the title of this thread, HBs are not always bad.

    -Ww
     
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  15. Keiji

    Keiji TAG Member

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    This thread needs an update, I dont have couple atm so only HB for me. I would like to find some links which are foreign friendly because I want foreign woman, the reverse way for most users here.
    The original post warns us about all the tricks but doesnt really tell the way around pitfalls. My first thought was...:How do you realise with a fast check which are fake customers and which are legitimate people?
     
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  16. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    1) Update

    It is possible for a guy to have a good time at a Happening Bar (the experience for single men and single woman can be different), BUT it usually depends on the other customers that show up or you inviting friends of yours there.

    Examples:

    A ) You come and it happens to be crowded with a lot of swinger couples that are willing to share their ladies with single guys or other couples. It might be crowded because of an event or good couples showed up. This can be random and very unpredictable.

    B ) You INVITE swinger friends to meet you at a certain date. This can also be swinger couples from AFF or Craigslist. If they show up, it can be a fun mini-party group. But, depends on if they take you up on your invitation.

    C ) You bring your date to the Happening Bar. For this to work and to shield her from the club or other customers trying to "steal her", you should have a VERY CLEAR talk with her.

    Preferably, bring her to Happening Bars that do NOT photocopy her ID. This creates less problems with the woman getting PARANOID and afraid to play or the club trying to sneak contact her later. Bliss-Out in Shinjuku and Arabesque in Shinjuku San-chome are 2 examples. They will check you, for membership (come by yourself the 1st time), but ONLY check your ladies ID to verify age and NOT photocopy or trust you as a member. In contrast, Sleeping Beauty in Shibuya, Retreat in Shinjuku, or 9259 in East Shinjuku will photocopy the ID of any woman you bring and don't trust members.

    A 3rd possibility is that some clubs allow you to UNOFFICALLY use the same couple membership card for any ladies you invite. So if you come as a couple, they will make 2 membership cards. The guy KEEPS BOTH membership cards. He then uses them for any OTHER ladies that you bring. Some clubs trust the member and don't verify, while other will verify, so it depends on the club.

    By having a clear talk with your lady, she then knows what "club tricks" to expect and she is totally up for playing with other guys or couples. In this scenario, you are more likely to have fun, because others will want to join you.

    The guy needs to be a strong MANAGER to control the situation, make others back away if necessary, and preferably his lady be a "M" (masochistic) or she is very with doing group sex as part of her fantasy come true.

    HB List:

    http://www.mabe-navi.com/english.htm (English)

    http://www.mabe-navi.com/data_area/data_tokyo01.htm (Japanese)

    Note- Many places will expect that you understand some Japanese. If you completely don't understand Japanese, your lady will have to speak for you (if she is bi-lingual). Which can cause an issue of the foreign guy having no control of the situation and not knowing what the club is telling her. It is better, for foreign guys who don't have a lot of experience, if they go to the club by themself first and understand how things work, before bringing a lady friend.


    2) Some guys, who have a high level of skill in finding women that want to try group sex, use the Happening Bars as a kind of exciting fantasy play hotel.

    Some women get VERY sexually excited at seeing the activity in a Happening Bar OR the situation of a fantasy coming true, so want to try it or at least have 1 to 1 sex with the guy that brought them.

    It's an odd phenomenon that you have to experience to understand, but some women that wouldn't go with you to a hotel for sex, CAN have sex with you at a Happening Bar because they get sexually excited there, even if she will only play with you.

    Finding such women or figuring out that she would like to try to make a sexual fantasy of her's come true is a HIGH LEVEL skill among guys.

    It becomes clear that it's a high level skill, whenever a guy starts attempting to bring dates or girlfriends to a Happening Bar or Couple Kissa. Even if the guy had a long relationship with a woman, unless it is an open-relationship or swinger relationship, he can find it extremely difficult. As many women can't be or aren't sexually honest, even with their boyfriend or husband, because they are PRETENDING to play the "innocent good girl" role in front of that particular guy.

    It can require that a guy have a significant understanding of female thinking.

    These types of guys also don't get jealous, aren't selfish, are good "managers", and embrace the swinger lifestyle.

    A Couple Kissa can be easier, for a swinger guy in terms of the stress of managing his lady and/or more satisfying (in terms of swapping). There is almost no attempts by the club or other single people trying to steal your lady. The main problem of a Couple Kissa is the "initial shock" of open sexuality. There is no pretense and couples go for it and swap, so you MUST prepare your lady to play with others and the both of you must be HONEST with each other.

    However, if the guy has experience dealing with "tricks" and "girl stealing attempts" at Happening Bars and has strong people management skills, he can make certain Happening Bars work for him like a kind of optional super exciting hotel. The advantage of this way is you can EASE your way into trying group sex and swinging. Your lady has more of an option to just drink, watch others, and experiment. Some couples try Happening Bars first, to get used to the lifestyle, then do Couple Kissas. On the flip, other couples prefer only Couple Kissas.
     
    #16 Solong, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  17. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Fwiiw, on my first and only (so far) visit to an HB, I worried not at all about any of the above and paid not the slightest attention to the possibility of anyone trying to scam me or deceive me about being customer vs staff or managing anyone other than myself etc or...least of all, my date being stolen from me (which is actually impossible since I don't own her, have never owned any woman and never will). I also had no particular goal except to try something new and see what it was like. Any non-dull and non-harmful/upsetting (to anyone involved) experience would have been a success in my book. I had an absolute blast and will repeat at the next opportunity.

    I'm a "What, me worry?!" sort of guy for the most part, and imo this is one of the reasons that I so rarely run into anything worth worrying about. The old self-fulfilling expectation thing again.

    My date and I did agree on one "rule", her suggestion, before we arrived - namely, both of us would ask the other's ok before doing anything at all (beyond a friendly hug and kiss on the cheek perhaps) with anyone else and would accept a "no, please don't" answer gracefully and without argument. Seems like a wise enough idea, and we both did ask in all cases, but neither of us ever said "no" or even hesitated before saying "yes"…so it was all rather moot.

    One funny incident - Before we were allowed to join and enter the bar, one of the staff read us the house rules, which took several minutes it seemed to me. It was one A4 sheet of paper full of Japanese text written in a normal sized font. I don't understand Japanese nearly well enough to follow, so my date said she would tell me if there were anything I needed to know. At the end of this rather long monologue by the staff member, my date offered no translation, so I asked her what he had said. She replied, "No rape and they don't care." (The latter meaning, I determined with a few more questions, that the HB takes no legal responsibility for almost anything bad that could conceivably happen to you while you are there.) I thought she did a wonderful and hilarious job of boiling down what must have been spelled out in excruciating detail to its essence.

    -Ww
     
    #17 Wwanderer, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  18. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    What happens in a Happening Bar has a lot of variables. Did the guy explain the rules to his lady and/or what it's like BEFORE coming (very helpful)? Are you coming single or as a couple? Man or woman? Even each time you come to the bar or going to a different bar, can result in a different experience.

    1) Girlfriend "Stealing" And Disrespect

    This isn't about ownership, it's about disrespect by staff and/or customers (male or female) at some Happening Bars (depends which ones). The term "stealing" is a popular figure of speech.

    When a paying customer and club member brings a female guest, it's not for the purpose to introduce a "new hostess" or worker to the club staff for free, especially when that's definitely NOT what she came for. Nor is it for the purpose of the staff to disrespect her privacy, harrass her, or to abuse her contact info with spam e-mails or phone calls afterwards.

    And it's equally rude and disrespectful for other customers/members to "game" on the girlfriends or wives of other members/swingers by secretly trying to pass them their phone number, trying to have secret conversations (to include secret conversations in Japanese), or ignoring that she is with someone.

    Some women are smart enough to automatically block such attempts, while other women don't (for many reasons). So it depends on the girlfriend/wife too.

    Some Happening Bars never have a problem with this, while others do. Places like Arabesque or 9259, almost never have this problem and are well managed. Where places like Retreat and Bliss-out (in Shinjuku), have had this issue happen a lot. In defense of Bliss-out, due to customers talking to management, they have improved.

    Lastly, if a guy is not paying attention or doesn't speak Japanese, he may have no idea whatsoever that someone stuck a phone number written in tissue in his girl's bra or asked her to come by herself tomorrow in Japanese. Some types will also PRETEND to befriend you and the wife or girlfriend, but are running a scam to get your girl to come by herself.

    This can be more prevalent when your girlfriend/wife is particularly good looking, young, or tall. I know life isn't fair, but some some guys bringing less attractive women might not feel the "heat". Nevertheless, disrespect is not what swinging is about.

    2) Girlfriend/wife VS Paid Escort

    There is a clear difference. An escort is an independent agent that is free to interact how she likes. Her constraint might be in treating her paying customer well, so that he will be a repeat customer. However, she may not care and a paying customer doesn't have the right or relationship closeness to reign in her behavior in any way. Furthermore, if another customer wants to bring her somewhere as an escort, he needs to pay too and that alone will make guys back off. And if another guy is willing to pay her, as just a customer, he can't complain about her doing business elsewhere.

    3) Knowing How To Get Women VS Those That Can't

    Some guys have no skill and no clue how to meet women, nor how to find women that like sex and are sexually liberated. Consequently, SOME single guys in a Happening Bar are like that. When they see other guys bringing sexually liberated women, they snap mentally. Now, they see their type of woman in the bar, except she is with "him". Where this guy would have NO BALLS to talk to women on the street, office, train, etc... He will have the little balls to game on women BEHIND THE BACK of other swingers. They don't share or embrace the spirit of swingers.

    4) Couple Kissa VS Happening Bars

    Staff and other members (single male or single female) that try to game on the girlfriends and wives of others don't usually exist in a Couple Kissa. Anybody that has been to Olive-21 (for example) and compared it to Happening Bars, will know the clear difference.

    With that said, there are some well managed Happening Bars where girlfriend stealing attempts almost never happen. It's because the managers explain the rules well or enforce them well and kick out members that don't know how to behave. Arabesque or 9259 are good examples of well managed bars. However, 9259 takes photos of IDs, which is not good. Bliss-out, Arabesque, and Olive-21 don't photocopy your ID and just check it.
     
    #18 Solong, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
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  19. VenusHoshii

    VenusHoshii TAG Member

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    Great thread all, I am still reading through it and this is my first post.

    I don't live in Japan any more but did for years and come back from time to time. I had my time as Mayor of Roppongi until I had my harem and didn't go there to harvest anymore. Now if I go back I may visit bars with an SF who is pretty adventurous and has with hose places.

    As I've never been to a HB or CB, and may be sometime next year, some questions:

    1. Do you know which clubs do / don't ID? I don't want to go anywhere that IDs

    2. I'm in my late 40s, in good shape but looking older than I did when I was on the market there (aren't we all?) - which places are good for someone like me?

    3. I am not interested in places that cater to those in their 20s - again, any suggestions?

    4. I also don't want to go anywhere that as a gaijin, am going to either be among a bunch of other gaijin, or, be unwelcome as the only gaijin.

    5. While I am keen for the action, I am not keen to walk around naked - is that how these places work?

    Sorry for all the questions but hopefully the dialogue will prove interesting and informative.
     
    #19 VenusHoshii, Dec 13, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
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  20. VenusHoshii

    VenusHoshii TAG Member

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    More questions:

    6. What time do things start to happen, generally speaking? And days?

    7. What kind of rules are there for, er, bodily fluids?

    8. Are there showers, towels?

    9. I had another but can't remember now
     
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  21. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    @VenusHoshii

    I can answer some questions, but you have to actually go there. Also, each Happening Bar has differences. And it's too difficult to explain the differences of each in text.

    I suggest you try Bliss-out in Shinjuku, especially if you are a newbie or if you are not fluent in Japanese.

    1) ALL Happening Bars and Couple Kissas will check your ID. They must at least verify age.

    What I was talking about before was photocopying and keeping a record. Some do, some don't.

    Bliss-out, Olive-21, Arabesque, and possibly others don't photocopy IDs. Retreat (Shinjuku), 9259 (Wakuwaku- East Shinjuku), Sleeping Beauty (Shibuya), etc... do photocopy

    2) Age is not a problem in Japan, especially if you are in good shape.

    A 40+ man can date 20 something Japanese women, if he applies himself to the task.

    3) Don't worry about age so much. Your physical condition is more of a factor than age in Japan. Happening Bars usually have a wide range of ages going there.

    4) Depends how well you speak Japanese. If you are fluent, you can go to almost any bar, unless they have a specific anti-foreigner policy and I have only encountered 1 like that.

    5) You don't have to be naked. That is up to you.

    6 and 7) Different bars have different schedules. Condoms are must, unless that's your wife/girlfriend

    8 ) Yes, all places (that I've seen) have showers and towels. It is customary for you to take a shower prior to any play. If you don't take a shower, many will refuse to play.

    9) LOL
     
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  22. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    It is worth keeping in mind that those "many reasons" that some women don't block might well include that she welcomes and enjoys these "attempts", either because of the straight forward motive that she is interested in seeing other guys or, maybe more likely, because she enjoys (is flattered by) all the male attention. Almost all guys would be thrilled beyond words to have a bunch of women hitting on them in an HB, whether they came alone or with a partner; their egos would be swelling up like a cock receiving DT from Kitty. Isn't it natural to expect some (not all) women to get a similar (sexual) ego gratification from being the object of desire for a pack of would-be studs?

    In any case, I don't think block vs not-block should be equated to smart vs not-smart. Nor do I think it is the guy's role to do the blocking if the lady he's with chooses to accept other guys making passes at her…unless, of course, she makes it *very*/explicitly clear that she wants him to do so on her behalf.

    -Ww
     
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  23. VenusHoshii

    VenusHoshii TAG Member

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    Thanks Solong.

    My Japanese was pretty good before I left, now quite rusty. My SF and HB partner is Japanese though.

    In another thread I saw that Olive Tree is no gaijin, so that's off the list. Will have to check out Arabesque.

    The old days of going to a Motown and getting a First Night Kill (FNK - my term) seems long gone. Does it happen in 911 any more?

    Me and the SF were hoping to go to a bar to find a third for WMW, but that also seems unlikely and will just use the internet for that.
     
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  24. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Re #5, from my one HB experience (at 9259), it is certainly true that you don't have to walk around naked and few people did (though most were not fully dressed either), but the changing/locker room outside the shower is uni-sex and small. There was plenty of casual nudity there, and it would have been inconvenient/awkward to shower without being at least briefly naked in there.

    There are also windows into the two "playrooms" allowing other guests to watch you in action, so to speak.

    None of this bothered me at all, but it might be an issue for someone who is uncomfortable with public nudity and sexuality.

    -Ww
     
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  25. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

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    If you have a lady friend and want to see swinger action, then I would suggest Olive-21. I wasn't sure as to what thread you were referring to, but Olive-21 accepts foreigners. With that stated, you need to speak some Japanese and be able to understand the rules. You just need decent enough Japanese to answer their basic questions (and a lot of nodding your head yes and saying "Hai") to the rules presentation. If you completely don't understand Japanese, then they won't let you in, because of the fear that a misunderstanding might lead to trouble. They also don't tolerate rule violators there. With that stated, foreigners are allowed in.

    Another point though, is when it comes to swapping, you need to have a quality lady. This might affect how certain other foreigners report their experience. Younger or fit women are preferred. If she is older, but fit, that is still OK. You may have trouble swapping with old looking or fat women. With men, age isn't so much an issue, but general fitness is. Now, if you bring a really hot lady, this can offset a guy being a bit off the fitness mark, but only to a certain extent. You have to go there to completely understand what I mean.

    I know what you mean by FNK (though K is now so politically incorrect... May I suggest L for "lay"... LOL) and Motown. I once went into Motown and picked up a hot 22 yr old young office chick in 15 minutes, and didn't have time to finish my drink, because we left so quickly. Now, the only way you can pick up that quickly in Motown is with a transsexual, with a bad boob job, and asking for $300 dollars. And if you are not careful, some tricky chick will pretend to like you, then take you to some other club and try to get you buy her a $300 dollar bottle of champagne (oh, and no sex). Sorry, but that is just not the same, not at all.

    How things often work now is you talk to ladies on the train, coffee shop, street, etc... (any place they are loitering and preferably 1 to 1). You get a bunch of contacts and then ask them out on dates. Most contacts will be worthless, BUT some will go out on a date. You can try the same type of thing with online date sites too. You would then take your date TO a club, bar, restaurant, etc... Preferably near a hotel or your apartment. The dynamic of such dates are different from FNL. It's more strategic and a thought out process, versus the natural spontaneity and passion of instantly clicking.

    Japan has been hit with a "lack of passion among heterosexual couples" and low sexual frequency, because of a lot of negative propaganda against heterosexual hooking up. Many Japanese guys rather just "buy fun" than to deal with games. Oddly, this negative propaganda against sexual hookups doesn't affect gays or lesbians doing 1 night stands. Japanese women often go to the clubs in groups, that can act lesbian-like and cock-block any approaching guys or play guys into buying them free drinks. These women are very concerned about their "image" in front of friends or co-workers, so will act FAKE in front of them. That's why getting their contact info is better, then try to meet her later, and by herself.

    911, is now called Black Horse. Not much spontaneity or passion to be found. Many of the Japanese are coming there in silly "Japanese only" groups or are on dates. If you are trying to FNL like in the old days, be prepared for a long tough desperate battle, which I suggest you don't engage in. Most guys will simply go to the clubs to collect phone numbers/e-mails then leave. That works better when dealing with Japanese females in "ladies only" groups. Collect enough contacts, and some will be good. However, you don't need the club to get numbers, and can do that anywhere.
     
    #25 Solong, Dec 15, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
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