How comfortable do you feel in advance payment for sugar baby?

[Frenchy]

Most people agree that sex with someone you care about is good. But I have had great sex with people I dislike. Nothing like a good hate fuck. Sex with someone you don't really care about one way or another (like a escort) is the classic sport fuck. So there you have it. Love fuck, hate fuck, sport fuck. Sex is like pizza. Even when its bad, its still good.

I'm a bit like MikeH: I love to read different perspectives and things I want to dispute/argue. Having said that some of the things you wrote actually made sense to me. Unfortunately no time to elaborate now, but anyway just wanted to thank you for bringing your views.

 

[User#8628]

I don't know why this thread has been reopened because its very old and obviously OP has moved on to other girls (who aren't necessarily better) and has moved on from this one.

I don't think paying for company is a bad or shameful thing. I think its quite beautiful if someone wants to talk and be hold rather than to bang like a rabbit, and at the end of the day its sometimes hard to find someone who has patience in your situation.

A while ago, something very bad happened to me. I wont say what but it was distressing. My best friend and anyone i could really cuddle up and cry with was out of the country.
The thing i did was go to a host club and just pay the minimum shokai fee. I was ready to pay more if there was anyone i particularly liked but there wasn't. I also dont have anyone special i can go to at the moment (hosts nowadays are not as interesting and good looking as in my memory). Anyway, i just went to two different clubs and paid 3000 yen each time and not connected with anyone especially but if felt soooo good and humane to just sit next to nice young guys who make subtle skin contact and do their best to amuse you, be funny and cheer you up.

The day after that i saw a regular client who most definitely cares about me. That was just as relaxing and healing to me because i felt loved and cared for and had a nice intimate time.

I really needed those experienced to calm down and feel a bit human again.

I don't quite like the idea of sex with someone you hate or don't care for at all. It doesn't have to be a romantic interest for me but i hope i can at least be on friendly terms with most of my sex partners.

 

[TAG Manager]

I don't know why this thread has been reopened because its very old and obviously OP has moved on to other girls (who aren't necessarily better) and has moved on from this one.

The OP requested the thread to be opened again so he could post an update. I don't know why he hasn't done so though...

@okayspot - tag, you're it.

 

[warubuta]

I didn't say paying for company was bad or shameful. I said I thought it was not good in the limited sense that it was not mentally healthy.

There is an arguement to be made that sex is a physical thing. Like a massage or a haircut. These are services you can buy. Friendship occurs when people find something they like in each other. When someone is only hanging out with someone for money that is not friendship. It is a farce of friendship. I dont think it is mentally healthy. That was my point - and it is just an opinion.

When you are sad or having problems, paying some nice looking guys a few thousand yen to rub up against you, pour your drink and listen to your worries is OK if it helps you get through the night. Other people find similar solace at the Neko Cafe. But as I am sure you know, these guys are no more your friends any more than the cats at the Neco Cafe. You probably shouldn't trust them with much. Would you lend one of them money over and over like the OP did?

I agree with you and I really hope the OP posts that he realized his mistake, that he has learned from it, and that going forward he will try to seperate authentic relationships from P4P. Sex or not, P4P is not the same as an authentic relationship.

 

[Frenchy]

I didn't say paying for company was bad or shameful. I said I thought it was not good in the limited sense that it was not mentally healthy.

There is an arguement to be made that sex is a physical thing. Like a massage or a haircut. These are services you can buy. Friendship occurs when people find something they like in each other. When someone is only hanging out with someone for money that is not friendship. It is a farce of friendship. I dont think it is mentally healthy. That was my point - and it is just an opinion.

When you are sad or having problems, paying some nice looking guys a few thousand yen to rub up against you, pour your drink and listen to your worries is OK if it helps you get through the night. Other people find similar solace at the Neko Cafe. But as I am sure you know, these guys are no more your friends any more than the cats at the Neco Cafe. You probably shouldn't trust them with much. Would you lend one of them money over and over like the OP did?

I agree with you and I really hope the OP posts that he realized his mistake, that he has learned from it, and that going forward he will try to seperate authentic relationships from P4P. Sex or not, P4P is not the same as an authentic relationship.

Unfortunately the frontier is not that clear-cut sometimes. If you scratch a bit the veneer on a lot of "authentic relationships" you may find money is also a concern , one way or another. And if it's not money it can be a whole bunch of other expectations of getting "something" from the other, more or less explicitly. Love is barter.

 

[Ken1988]

Hi, I've recently tapped the sugar bowl and been thinking about the titled issue a lot. As a newbie, I found it so hard to establish trust with POT, but so far, actually, it turned out it's because of me being too cautious. I'm OK to pay for platonic dates at the start of a relationship, but I think I would stick to ppm during the platonic period.

It seems to me that the OP has strong emotional connection with his SB. The tone of Japanese phrases she used to communicate with you sounds very arrogant. The OP is just very kind.

I'm not in a position to make any advice, but I just want to thank the OP for sharing. I feel I could easily be in a similar situation.

 

[warubuta]

Unfortunately the frontier is not that clear-cut sometimes. If you scratch a bit the veneer on a lot of "authentic relationships" you may find money is also a concern , one way or another. And if it's not money it can be a whole bunch of other expectations of getting "something" from the other, more or less explicitly. Love is barter.

I get the arguement of the fuzzy frontier and the veneer. But in this case, the OP paid alot of cash to the SB who clearly and deliberately took advantage over and over again. In the very least, the OP needs to admit that the relationship had no authenticity. Other situations might be fuzzy. Not this one.

 

[warubuta]

In Cash gets paid specifically for sex or just for fake friendship. I think we should

Hi, I've recently tapped the sugar bowl and been thinking about the titled issue a lot. As a newbie, I found it so hard to establish trust with POT, but so far, actually, it turned out it's because of me being too cautious. I'm OK to pay for platonic dates at the start of a relationship, but I think I would stick to ppm during the platonic period.

It seems to me that the OP has strong emotional connection with his SB. The tone of Japanese phrases she used to communicate with you sounds very arrogant. The OP is just very kind.

I'm not in a position to make any advice, but I just want to thank the OP for sharing. I feel I could easily be in a similar situation.

It sounds like you are playing the SB game well. Wouldlike to hear more.

 

[Frenchy]

I get the arguement of the fuzzy frontier and the veneer. But in this case, the OP paid alot of cash to the SB who clearly and deliberately took advantage over and over again. In the very least, the OP needs to admit that the relationship had no authenticity. Other situations might be fuzzy. Not this one.

True. Unless there is some kind of SM (in a frustrating way) aspect involved

 

[Ken1988]

It sounds like you are playing the SB game well. Wouldlike to hear more.

I might start a different thread to share my sugar experience someday, but so far I don't feel I have wasted money because I met several amazing aspiring young artists I wouldn't have met otherwise. I told POT at M&G that I wanted us to be friends in real life first and the arrangement would be added on top of it...but I don't know if it works in the way I like it to be. I'm not experienced enough. I'm aware that I could fall into the white knight syndrome easily, and to this point I would like to thank the OP for sharing his experience.

 

[Wwanderer]

so far I don't feel I have wasted money because I met several amazing aspiring young artists I wouldn't have met otherwise.

One reason I have no problem providing some sugar support to an SB at a first meeting is that in the large majority of cases they turn out to be an interesting person with whom to share a meal and a conversation even if it never goes any further than that.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

I might start a different thread to share my sugar experience someday, but so far I don't feel I have wasted money because I met several amazing aspiring young artists I wouldn't have met otherwise. I told POT at M&G that I wanted us to be friends in real life first and the arrangement would be added on top of it...but I don't know if it works in the way I like it to be. I'm not experienced enough. I'm aware that I could fall into the white knight syndrome easily, and to this point I would like to thank the OP for sharing his experience.

Whoever your SB is/will be, she's a lucky woman, i think

 

[okayspot]

Alright!!

finally here for an update:

I gave her a total of 100,000 yen that was for her "to pay back" once she started her new job, between May - July. Basically I was aware I wasn't going to get this money back.

She started her job 2 months ago.
Today, without too much hassling of her, she transferred to my bank account 20,000 yen as a first payment.
I honestly almost feel bad taking 20,000 from someone that probably only makes 180,000 a month、when I do just spend the money frivolously.

She stills owes me about 190,000 yen total in time + money, but I think her cancelling so much on me has to do with mental illness / depression (she has cuts on her legs/wrists) then trying to trick me

Just my update that people aren't all bad, she sucks at money part of life, but for me it is a symbol that there are people with morals/ conscience in this industry.

 

[MikeH]

I honestly almost feel bad taking 20,000 from someone that probably only makes 180,000 a month、when I do just spend the money frivolously.

Well I see how one could argue you are using the money frivolously by giving it to her...

I think it might be a good lesson for her to actually live with the money she is making. And when she doesn't need to pay you that 20 per month she suddenly will have more money available.

Anyway quite a surprising and good development on this story!

 

[jhingy567]

Wow, she gave some money back - probably means she has some awareness of what she did.
Not sure how malicious her intentions were at the start, but the mental illness thing is a strong mitigating circumstance imo.

From personal experience, mentally ill people are very difficult to deal with. Their behavior can appear extremely selfish to others. If she's in a state bad enough to self-harm, paying off debts or going on dates with you would be the least of her concerns (and probably rightly so).

I'm guessing she isn't too bad of a person, but just has some major struggles of her own

 

[Frenchy]

Paying back your debts one way or the other is the path to freedom... congrats to her for starting on this path. So many people do not even recognize they have a debt to pay

 

[User#8628]

Alright!!

finally here for an update:

I gave her a total of 100,000 yen that was for her "to pay back" once she started her new job, between May - July. Basically I was aware I wasn't going to get this money back.

She started her job 2 months ago.
Today, without too much hassling of her, she transferred to my bank account 20,000 yen as a first payment.
I honestly almost feel bad taking 20,000 from someone that probably only makes 180,000 a month、when I do just spend the money frivolously.

She stills owes me about 190,000 yen total in time + money, but I think her cancelling so much on me has to do with mental illness / depression (she has cuts on her legs/wrists) then trying to trick me

Just my update that people aren't all bad, she sucks at money part of life, but for me it is a symbol that there are people with morals/ conscience in this industry.

That is really good news.
Yeah, most girls are mentally disturbed rather than evil... but i think still the majority would not have considered paying you back anything so thats good of her.
There are definitely very sweet people with conscience in this industry though, and i guess we all got our own morals.

 

[vargas]

That is really good news.
Yeah, most girls are mentally disturbed rather than evil... but i think still the majority would not have considered paying you back anything so thats good of her.
There are definitely very sweet people with conscience in this industry though, and i guess we all got our own morals.

That’s been my experience as well. I’ve met quite a lot of girls for an introductory drink or dinner and the vast majority have been basically decent, just a bit lacking in either ability to navigate life or to earn and manage money in the quantities they desire.

Not all of course, I’ve been lucky to meet a few very smart and interesting young women with great potential and ambition as well. But that’s definitely on the unusual side and I got pretty burnt out trying to find the needles in the haystack.

 

[BankerguyCanada]

If i were you i'd 'lean' on her to offer something sexual in return.She owes you 25 hours? a few thousand dollars worth of time?
Sex, a few BJ's hell even a HJ...and then say "okay your debt is gone". I know you said that she was against doing anything sexual for money..but at this point i think she's pretty comfortable with you...and she knows she owes you. I'm fairly confident that if you had her alone and applied a bit of pressure...convincing, she'll give you some real sugar.
Then once you get that you just forget her...move on. And when she needs money 2 weeks later she'll be there to offer more of the real sugar since she already went that far.

 

[jhingy567]

If i were you i'd 'lean' on her to offer something sexual in return.She owes you 25 hours? a few thousand dollars worth of time?
Sex, a few BJ's hell even a HJ...and then say "okay your debt is gone". I know you said that she was against doing anything sexual for money..but at this point i think she's pretty comfortable with you...and she knows she owes you. I'm fairly confident that if you had her alone and applied a bit of pressure...convincing, she'll give you some real sugar.
Then once you get that you just forget her...move on. And when she needs money 2 weeks later she'll be there to offer more of the real sugar since she already went that far.

No doubt some women get into prostitution to pay off debt. But I don't think 'leaning' on her for sexual stuff would be wise here. There was already another post (deleted I think) which also suggested getting her alone in a room, but applying pressure in way that took things way too far.
While probably not as bad, It just feels wrong to push her with that stuff, given her mental state.
IMO, it's also probably better to forgive the debt, than stick your dick in crazy, (which may lead to other complications)

 

[BB0523]

Yes, sticking your dick into crazy can be lots of fun if it is the right kind of crazy, but unstable is a completely different kind of crazy and I agree with jhingy567 on that point for sure...
you don't need 3am banging on your flat door with her saying I did this and that for you... with your neighbors hearing it. I have a firm and fast rule... no girls in my flat for that specific reason as well as other reasons... Like Charlie Sheen said... in P4P you pay them to leave not for sex...

 

[BankerguyCanada]

No doubt some women get into prostitution to pay off debt. But I don't think 'leaning' on her for sexual stuff would be wise here. There was already another post (deleted I think) which also suggested getting her alone in a room, but applying pressure in way that took things way too far.
While probably not as bad, It just feels wrong to push her with that stuff, given her mental state.
IMO, it's also probably better to forgive the debt, than stick your dick in crazy, (which may lead to other complications)

I should have been more clear..when i said "lean" i meant he should be like "cmoooooon.. ive known you for almost a year...30 minutes in a love hotel and no more debt.. cmooooon. u know i care about u" thats as far as i meant when i said "lean on her". but yes...i agree, sticking your dick in crazy could end up bad! never thought about that

 

[vargas]

Yes, sticking your dick into crazy can be lots of fun if it is the right kind of crazy, but unstable is a completely different kind of crazy and I agree with jhingy567 on that point for sure...
you don't need 3am banging on your flat door with her saying I did this and that for you... with your neighbors hearing it. I have a firm and fast rule... no girls in my flat for that specific reason as well as other reasons... Like Charlie Sheen said... in P4P you pay them to leave not for sex...

Very good advice! When sugar dating I think it’s best to keep disclosure of your private life to an absolute minimum until you get to know the girl really well. Also make the arrangement as clear as possible so no one gets disappointed and vengeful.

A nice feature of sugar dating is that the women don’t generally treat everything as a transaction, so there’s more room to get to know them on a deeper basis and establish a stronger connection. Conversely it means they also don’t behave professionally and some have really obvious problems. I’ve had sugar candidates lie through their teeth about everything and that’s after filtering out the obviously crazy ones.

So you really can’t count on them respecting your privacy or being completely satisfied with whatever they negotiated. There’s way more risk of blowback compared to enjoying the company of a pro. Of course a lot depends on how you met them, SA is pretty awful but long ago when I did UC the girls were well vetted.

 

[BB0523]

I understand what you are saying Vargus, however, no matter how close and well I know the girl - Never to my flat... I'm still reviewing SA, UC has been ok for me so far, but lately their quality has dropped significantly IMO and since they changed the Dating Type seems more B's and C's... not so many D's and lots more BLACK level as well... I'm getting disenchanted with UC to be honest, but ever hopeful there will be one that is worth booking. I'm thinking of going to one of their "events" but it never coincides with my schedule for the past few months.
Wanting to change the terms of the negotiations is a big red flag... is it they assume they are worth more or that they think you have "Fallen" for them so they try to manipulate and gain from this perception ? That would be my guess.. I know I am generalizing here so FWIW seems true SB are becoming more difficult to find...IMO... This may not be in the correct thread...

 

[MikeH]

when i said "lean" i meant he should be like "cmoooooon.. ive known you for almost a year...30 minutes in a love hotel and no more debt.. cmooooon. u know i care about u"

I think if I needed to talk like that to get a girl to agree for a session with me I would rather take the advice from @TheScientist and head for Hanamasa.