I Just Want To Have Shared Fun Again ... But It Comes At A Price.

[majimekun]

Hi everyone,

I've been living in Tokyo for several years already and always had serious/steady relationships with japanese girls.

Now, the thing is that I've come to understand that I will never find happiness in the regular BF/GF schema since I am totally against marriage and kids. The problem is that all the girls I've ever met (workplace, casual encounters, Facebook, dating sites, etc.) have this dream of finding mister "right", marrying him and having kids with him.

But when I look around, all I see is boring/loveless couples after several years.
All my male co-workers (all japanese and married) always complain about the lack of sex at home ... it's very sad to see. I know by experience that japanese girls will be very soft and tender until they make their dream become true. But after that it's another story ... although there are some exceptions ... but anyway, I don't even want to try that risky path (and I'd get already bored after a couple of years actually).

I've been with my current girlfriend only one year and the last couple of months were very tough because she abruptly become terminally ill (cancer). Of course I do everything I can for her, losing quite a lot of money in the process, in order to give her happiness until the very end. Some of you might already know that terminally ill people are (understandably) quite challenging to deal with. Personally, I don't even know if I will have the strength to be at her side until her very last moments.

Anyway. I'm starting to think about the future (which helps me coping with the present).
Once this is over, I will want to have fun again in light-hearted relationships with no strings.
Just two adults having fun together (accompliceship, travel, gourmet, sex) during the present time, with no false promise and fair share of expenses.

The problem is that this is almost impossible to achieve, especially in Japan.
Girls who want to have such fun in Japan will invariably want to take advantage of you, mostly by asking you to pay for everything. I'm pretty sure there are exceptions but finding them is very difficult.

Considering the above, the last option will be to pay for call girls like twice a month.
Ideally speaking, a perfect service would be a date at a restaurant, then spend a night at a classy hotel of my choice, sex with kissing allowed, morning breakfast together and parting away with a happy smile on both faces. I'd love to have all of that shared 50%/50% with a sex friend but since it seems impossible, how much do you think I would have to pay to a pro?

Thanks in advance for any kind reply.

Cheers

 

[meiji]

It really depends on what you are looking for, your language ability, etc.

I think there's quite a few Japanese people that cheat on their spouses/BFs, so you might be able to meet some in a bar, on some of the JP sites that cater to them. You could also look at craigslist or the western-based sugar daddy sites or Universe Club as well.

I think in general if you are looking for an NSA relationship you are probably going to be finding women that are either already married and in a loveless marriage and they'll generally be older women. If that's okay with you, I don't think you'll have a problem finding someone that fits your needs.

 

[Zaphod222]

I sorry about your GFs illness, and kudos for you to sticking it out with her.

About NSA relationships, that gets you back to the basic human nature. By nature, women want to have offspring and find a mate that helps to raise it. While males want to spread there nuts around, whatever euphemism you find for it. Rant as much as you want, but you can´t change that. So if you don´t want P4P, you are stuck with the options of basically deceiving girls into believing you are boyfriend material, or you can try to find some ranko option with married women or single moms. Good luck.

Btw, as you get older, there is nothing you will regret more than not having had kids. Just a piece of unwanted, but true advice.

 

[Panda989]

I agree for the most part. Here it's ingrained to get married and have kids. For me I was cut out to be a father but a husband was not what I was designed for. Love my kids, but being a hubby just isn't something I enjoy. We all make compromises in life and that's one I just have to live with. You can always fine someone to shag, but it's really rare if they are under 40 that they won't want a relationship out of you.

 

[Zaphod222]

I agree for the most part. Here it's ingrained to get married and have kids. For me I was cut out to be a father but a husband was not what I was designed for. Love my kids, but being a hubby just isn't something I enjoy.

Totally agree, and Japan, being free of the Judeo-Christian (not even to mention Muslim) BS, is a great country for that. As long as you are a good father for the kids (and I, for my part, enjoyed that tremendously) and don´t disturb the Wa, what you do you for your own enjoyment is your business and nobody elses. The Western concept of mixing and confusing the roles of a) sexy lover and b) responsible mom is plain stupid, and the result can be see in the Western divorce rates. I drink to Japan and its culture.

 

[Wwanderer]

By nature, women want to have offspring and find a mate that helps to raise it. While males want to spread there nuts around, whatever euphemism you find for it.

Right, but only partly right imo. Specifically, having offspring and raising them with a long term mate is most definitely an instinctive behavior for men as well as for women. It is not their *sole* reproductive instinct, but it is an important, arguably the most important, of such male instincts. The instinct to "spread there (sic) nuts around" is another one. I could give all sorts of evidence in support of this view, but perhaps it is too obvious to justify making such a list. For starters though, consider the behavior of human males in totally patriarchal primitive cultures.

Rant as much as you want, but you can´t change that.

Wrong, imo...depending a bit on what you mean by "change". In particular, while it may be impossible to change human instincts, a/the major characteristic of the human species that distinguishes it from other animal/mammal species is how easily and often we depart from instinctive behavior for a huge variety of reasons. Stop and think sometime how much of modern life involves suppressing or ignoring deep instincts. So, just because people have some "nature"/instinct does not mean that they should or must be given a pass for following it.

Btw, as you get older, there is nothing you will regret more than not having had kids.

Right, imo and experience. At my age pretty nearly all of my contemporaries have either had their children or did not and aren't going to have any in the future. Those who had children are mostly happy they did, although some are not. (Children can bring immense sorrow into your life if things go badly, much as romance can bring you joy or sorrow...but even more so perhaps.) However, I don't think I have ever heard someone in my age group who didn't have children express satisfaction or happiness/pleasure that they didn't. Most often they express regret at never having had children, but even if not that, they tend to wonder a bit wistfully what it would have been like if they had.

That said, I don't think anyone should have children unless they feel a real and strong desire to do so. Having a child you don't much want might be good for you in the long run, but it will probably be quite bad for your child.

-Ww

 

[GoldenDalton]

I sorry about your GFs illness, and kudos for you to sticking it out with her.

About NSA relationships, that gets you back to the basic human nature. By nature, women want to have offspring and find a mate that helps to raise it. While males want to spread there nuts around, whatever euphemism you find for it. Rant as much as you want, but you can´t change that. So if you don´t want P4P, you are stuck with the options of basically deceiving girls into believing you are boyfriend material, or you can try to find some ranko option with married women or single moms. Good luck.

Btw, as you get older, there is nothing you will regret more than not having had kids. Just a piece of unwanted, but true advice.

Are you really sincere about this last statement? I'm asking because I am shaky about marriage, but don't want to kick myself later down the road. If that's more than a passing thought it gives me something to think about.

 

[Zaphod222]

Right, but only partly right imo. Specifically, having offspring and raising them with a long term mate is most definitely an instinctive behavior for men as well as for women. It is not their *sole* reproductive instinct, but it is an important, arguably the most important, of such male instincts.

No. Look a the feral population in America`s suburbs, where society has broken down and families are the rarest of sights. The males do what is in their nature.... hump and move on. If there was a natural "instinct" to stick around and nurse the offspring, they would do that. But they don´t.

You are not talking about an instinct, but about learned behaviour... the civilizing effect of females on feral males.

 

[Zaphod222]

Are you really sincere about this last statement? I'm asking because I am shaky about marriage, but don't want to kick myself later down the road. If that's more than a passing thought it gives me something to think about.

I don´t think "marriage" is important in itself. If you stick around to help your offspring grow up, why should it matter if you have a government seal on it or not. Of course, from the female perspective, "marriage" is just another sort of assurance that the male will be there.

 

[majimekun]

It really depends on what you are looking for, your language ability, etc.

Thanks for your input.
I can say that I'm kind of fluent.
So, no problem with the japanese language.

I think there's quite a few Japanese people that cheat on their spouses/BFs, so you might be able to meet some in a bar, on some of the JP sites that cater to them.
...
I think in general if you are looking for an NSA relationship you are probably going to be finding women that are either already married and in a loveless marriage and they'll generally be older women.

Well, I don't want to waste my time with dishonest people.
I can't picture myself enjoying my time with a woman who lies to her husband on a daily basis.
And these kind of relationships are too dangerous too.
So, no thanks.

 

[majimekun]

I sorry about your GFs illness, and kudos for you to sticking it out with her.

Thanks Zaphod222. Today I had the privilege to take a ride in a japanese ambulance during a whole hour with an agonizing girlfriend. So much fun

About NSA relationships, that gets you back to the basic human nature. By nature, women want to have offspring and find a mate that helps to raise it. While males want to spread there nuts around, whatever euphemism you find for it. Rant as much as you want, but you can´t change that. So if you don´t want P4P, you are stuck with the options of basically deceiving girls into believing you are boyfriend material, or you can try to find some ranko option with married women or single moms. Good luck.

P4P is paid sex right?
How much would cost a whole night? (restaurant + hotel + girl until morning)

Btw, as you get older, there is nothing you will regret more than not having had kids. Just a piece of unwanted, but true advice.

To this, I have to disagree. Strongly.
I'm 41 y.o and the only one thing that I'm very certain is that I won't ever want to have kids.
It's simply NOT negotiable.
I will never give this totally fucked up world the opportunity to play games with my "offsprings".
Giving birth is simply an egoistic delayed assassination.
The coming third world war will come as a very big suprise to all those egoistic baby churners.

 

[Zaphod222]

Well, I don't want to waste my time with dishonest people.
I can't picture myself enjoying my time with a woman who lies to her husband on a daily basis.
And these kind of relationships are too dangerous too.
So, no thanks.

Actually, I don´t think that "lying to the husband" is an issue an sexless marriage. The topic is simply not on the table, period. Same for me -- the LAST thing in the world that I would ask SWMBO is "did you have sex with someone", and vice versa. It is simply a non-issue.

Now, on the other hand, if you go around hunting for single girls and pretend that you are are boyfriend/marriage material when you are not, that is different issue. That, imho, is dishonest and despicable. (Not saying that that is your intention, but others here have advocated that policy.)

 

[majimekun]

You can always fine someone to shag, but it's really rare if they are under 40 that they won't want a relationship out of you.

Well, since I'm 41 I could target women of my age (despite the fact that I prefer younger ones) .
But even the 40 y.o women I've met still pursue the dream of a "happy marriage". How delusional.
The brainwashing is kind of scary.

Can you tell me how you find your partners?

 

[Zaphod222]

To this, I have to disagree. Strongly.
I'm 41 y.o and the only one thing that I'm very certain is that I won't ever want to have kids.
It's simply NOT negotiable.
I will never give this totally fucked up world the opportunity to play games with my "offsprings".
Giving birth is simply an egoistic delayed assassination.
The coming third world war will come as a very big suprise to all those egoistic baby churners.

Oh boy. Have you considered Kants categorical imperative? What if everybody thought like you? The end of humanity, and not in a nice way (can you imagine the geriatric fade-out?).

In the event, only thoughtful people even entertain thoughts like you. The idiots out there simply go on breeding, without even thinking about it. You really want to leave the field to them?

 

[Zaphod222]

Thanks Zaphod222. Today I had the privilege to take a ride in a japanese ambulance during a whole hour with an agonizing girlfriend. So much fun

P4P is paid sex right?
How much would cost a whole night? (restaurant + hotel + girl until morning)

Quite expensive if you do P4P via agencies or professional providers (E.g. 80,000 Yen at AM or 39,000 yen at Hipness . But the Hipness girl will be Thai or Filipina, not Japanese.)
However if you read Japanese, you can check the keijiban sites. With a compensated sextomo, there is no ticking clock, and an all nighter is quite easy to be had, if you find someone you click with.

Or save your money for a biannual trip to Bangkok or a similar destination...

 

[majimekun]

What if everybody thought like you? The end of humanity, and not in a nice way (can you imagine the geriatric fade-out?).

This argument is totally flawed because such a scenario is totally unrealistic.
Whatever I think, whatever I do, the world will continue to be the same.

The idiots out there simply go on breeding, without even thinking about it. You really want to leave the field to them?

Well, they can breed as much as they want, there will be more meat for the coming wars.
I believe that human aren't ready yet to behave in a responsible manner.
Just look at the world leaders. They are the "elite" but still behave like kids.

 

[majimekun]

Actually, I don´t think that "lying to the husband" is an issue an sexless marriage. The topic is simply not on the table, period. Same for me -- the LAST thing in the world that I would ask SWMBO is "did you have sex with someone", and vice versa. It is simply a non-issue.

It's a big issue for me. I don't care if a sex friend has open relationships with hundreds of other guys as long as it is done without lies. But a girl who can lie to her husband will likely lie to me. I don't like liars.

Now, on the other hand, if you go around hunting for single girls and pretend that you are are boyfriend/marriage material when you are not, that is different issue. That, imho, is dishonest and despicable. (Not saying that that is your intention, but others here have advocated that policy.)

I too find it highly dishonest. Can't do that.
That's why I'd love to find sex friends smart/honest enough to avoid mind games.

 

[majimekun]

Quite expensive if you do P4P via agencies or professional providers (E.g. 80,000 Yen at AM or 39,000 yen at Hipness . But the Hipness girl will be Thai or Filipina, not Japanese.)
However if you read Japanese, you can check the keijiban sites. With a compensated sextomo, there is no ticking clock, and an all nighter is quite easy to be had, if you find someone you click with.

Thanks for the info.

As for the keijibans, I've already tried that before but I found only scammy websites.
Or keijibans packed with guys ... but no registered girls.

 

[Wwanderer]

No. Look a the feral population in America`s suburbs, where society has broken down and families are the rarest of sights. The males do what is in their nature.... hump and move on. If there was a natural "instinct" to stick around and nurse the offspring, they would do that. But they don´t.

The basic fallacy in your argument is that you are implicitly assuming that only a single type of reproductive behavior can be instinctive/natural…that male "human nature" must either be a "devoted father" (let's call it df) behavior OR a "promiscuous father" (pf) one. In reality it is both. And not only in humans; males of many mammal and bird species (whose behavior is indisputably instinctive and not learned) also display df and pf behaviors. Most people aren't aware of this fact, and it did not begin to be reported in the technical scientific literature until the 1980s, but it is now textbook material and not even remotely controversial. The evidence that human males, like those of so many other "higher" species, have both df and pf instincts is not only of the kind you mention above…let's call it sociological observation, but is also strongly supported by many other lines of evidence including an understanding of the relevant evolutionary justification (i.e., why it is a selective advantage to employ or be able to employ both df and pf behavior), an understanding of the evolutionary mechanics that allow species to have multiple and often contradictory instincts (people and animals have lots of other dual and somewhat contradictory instincts too, unrelated to reproduction), knowledge of how this comes about at the molecular/gene level (i.e., how it is encoded in our genes), experimental psychology and, most recently, fMRI studies of brain function.

I tend to go off on academic tangents on topics like this and could easily write you 1000s of words and provide you with references and so forth, but it is too far from the topic of this thread and from the interests of those reading it, so I will restrain myself. (You should thank me! )

Another reason not to belabor the point is your other comment:

You are not talking about an instinct, but about learned behaviour... the civilizing effect of females on feral males.

If this were correct (and it is not, imo), it would simply validate the second point in my post, namely that people are perfectly capable of suppressing instinctive behavior and replacing it with learned behavior. We do it constantly. Thus, "nature"/instinct is not irresistible fate or unchangeable behavior for people; in the end it is how we behave that counts, not whether it is natural/instinctive vs learned.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

@majimekun - Given your beliefs, I think you definitely should NOT get married or have children (which, to be clear, is NOT to say that I agree with your beliefs about why people have children, the inevitability of WW3 etc). But that's all your business, of course, and not really the point of this thread.

Instead trying to respond to the questions in your OP, I would strongly second what meiji posted above. Sugar dating/relationships seem far and away your best bet. It is most definitely possible and practical to find the sorts of connections you described in your OP…aside from the bit about "fair share expenses" (which I take to mean something like "Dutch treat" dating), but you appear to recognize that is not realistic. Universe Club, SeekingArrangement.com (and similar Western sugar dating sites such as SugarDaddy.com), kousai clubs, and keijiban sites have all been discussed fairly extensively on TAG. I'd suggest you start by reading those threads and then giving one of those approaches a try.

I put "possible and practical" in bold font for emphasis because it is not trivially easy to find what you are seeking (which is pretty special and demanding when you think about it) in the sugar bowl. It will likely take some persistence and serious effort/attention, but it most definitely can be done.

-Ww

 

[Zaphod222]

I tend to go off on academic tangents on topics like this and could easily write you 1000s of words and provide you with references and so forth, but it is too far from the topic of this thread and from the interests of those reading it, so I will restrain myself. (You should thank me! )

Thank you!

Another reason not to belabor the point is your other comment:
If this were correct (and it is not, imo), it would simply validate the second point in my post, namely that people are perfectly capable of suppressing instinctive behavior and replacing it with learned behavior.

I never claimed that we can`t... we do all the time. Isn´t that what society is all about?

 

[majimekun]

...
Instead trying to respond to the questions in your OP, I would strongly second what meiji posted above. Sugar dating/relationships seem far and away your best bet. It is most definitely possible and practical to find the sorts of connections you described in your OP…aside from the bit about "fair share expenses" (which I take to mean something like "Dutch treat" dating), but you appear to recognize that is not realistic. Universe Club, SeekingArrangement.com (and similar Western sugar dating sites such as SugarDaddy.com), kousai clubs, and keijiban sites have all been discussed fairly extensively on TAG. I'd suggest you start by reading those threads and then giving one of those approaches a try.

I put "possible and practical" in bold font for emphasis because it is not trivially easy to find what you are seeking (which is pretty special and demanding when you think about it) in the sugar bowl. It will likely take some persistence and serious effort/attention, but it most definitely can be done.

Thanks Ww.

I'll try these keijibans.
Since I work as a professional web designer, I might build my own platform if no success with the existing ones.
Well, I'll do that when everything is sorted with my current girlfriend.

One other thing I didn't say is the fact that I can easily pass for a a guy in his early thirties despite the fact that I'm 41.
Which makes me think that I might have some chance with single/divorced women in their 40s ... but even these hardly give up with the "happy marriage" dream.

And maybe I'm wrong but I have the strong impression that japanese women in their 40s are not interested in sex anymore. Most of these women would rather talk with their "cute" stupid dog and look down on men.
Oh I'm ranting again

 

[Wwanderer]

Thus, "nature"/instinct is not irresistible fate or unchangeable behavior for people; in the end it is how we behave that counts, not whether it is natural/instinctive vs learned.

I never claimed that we can`t... we do all the time. Isn´t that what society is all about?

Yes exactly, we (now) agree on that point apparently.

Just to clarify the context, I was responding to this comment in your first post in this thread (or one of the first anyway):

males want to spread there nuts around, whatever euphemism you find for it. Rant as much as you want, but you can´t change that.

The point is that we actually can change it at the level of behavior (where it counts) via society/civilization/learning etc, even if we cannot (yet) change the pf instinct.

My other point is that human males also have a df (devoted father, child rearing) instinct, so it is not completely a matter of nature vs nurture. Nature is on both sides of this one.

-Ww