Is P4P always better kept a secret?

[all4naughty69]

Long time lurker but would like to hear your thoughts. I’m sure it varies by person but I would like to hear how you handle discussing/sharing your hobbying life. I personally don’t mind sharing with people whom I’ve known for even a short amount of time (even Japanese girlfriends) and never received any negative reactions. I feel like especially in the US it’s so stigmatized amongst guys and spreading the word and sharing is one way that mindset will change. So my question... is it better to keep it fully filtered/secretive or are there benefits of being open about P4P world?

 

[User#8628]

I’m definitely open to most people in my close circle.

Wouldn’t really be too comfortable to tell it to complete strangers if I don’t have to though

 

[Simonka]

I have a few acquaintances who proudly boast about their Fuzoku and Mizu Shobai adventures. These are just some people with whom I am obliged to maintain a professional relationship. They glorify the exploitation of women and high five their fellow comrades. The type to go to night clubs and try to fondle girls against their will. I’d never tell them anything because they will use it against me, because I am a woman.

And then I have a few true friends in Japan who occasionally get engaged in p4p, who are always respectful to the girls they meet. They know about my previous night club work and I’ve met their wives, girlfriends & always been discreet about their encounters. There is mutual respect between us. They don’t know my escorting job and I would never share details of my escorting job with them.

My best friend back home knows, and she is open minded & supportive about it. She is married with kids, and we live totally different lives but that’s not a problem.

99% of the time I am discreet about it because I simply have to be. Plus, I’m a woman. Women get more stigma compared to men.

 

[all4naughty69]

I think being a woman requires a lot more discretion and it’s your profession. Maybe there been times freelancing in a bar where you have had to bring it up? Do you feel like you’re hesitant or pretty comfortable with sharing with strangers in that setting?

 

[Simonka]

I think being a woman requires a lot more discretion and it’s your profession. Maybe there been times freelancing in a bar where you have had to bring it up? Do you feel like you’re hesitant or pretty comfortable with sharing with strangers in that setting?

I never freelanced in a bar, (Because after 11pm all I want is to be at home in my bed lol. Plus I don’t mix alcohol with p4p) and I rarely go to bars with friends so.. I don’t share details of my side business with strangers. If I had second thoughts about what I did, maybe I would spill the beans but I’m okay with all aspects of my escorting.

 

[all4naughty69]

I have a few acquaintances who proudly boast about their Fuzoku and Mizu Shobai adventures. These are just some people with whom I am obliged to maintain a professional relationship. They glorify the exploitation of women and high five their fellow comrades. The type to go to night clubs and try to fondle girls against their will. I’d never tell them anything because they will use it against me, because I am a woman.

And then I have a few true friends in Japan who occasionally get engaged in p4p, who are always respectful to the girls they meet. They know about my previous night club work and I’ve met their wives, girlfriends & always been discreet about their encounters. There is mutual respect between us.

My best friend back home knows, and she is open minded & supportive about it. She is married with kids, and we live totally different lives but that’s not a problem.

99% of the time I am discreet about it because I simply have to be. Plus, I’m a woman. Women get more stigma compared to men.

Those guys sound over the top... it’s no accomplishment to brag about paying for sex. It goes without saying respect is due to the women.

Of course keeping infidelity a secret is important and it’s great you have that trust in your social circle.

I think sex workers have an important need to fill. Some people don’t even consider p4p an option when it could be so beneficial for boosting their confidence and lives in general.

 

[Simonka]

Well, these guys still provide for their families and love & respect their wives (or at least they seem to be) so I don’t really mind. I am not a monogamist anyway. I would only be concerned if a woman was being neglected or her dignity was at stake. I have a soft spot for mother and children. Even then it’s not up to me to break the news, it’s their private life.

 

[all4naughty69]

Well, these guys still provide for their families and love & respect their wives (or at least they seem to be) so I don’t really mind. I am not a monogamist anyway. I would only be concerned if a woman was being neglected or her dignity was at stake. I have a soft spot for mother and children. Even then it’s not up to me to break the news, it’s their private life.

That kind of brings up the question as well as if being with a SW is cheating. Maybe I’m just justifying it to myself but I feel when there is not an emotional attachment it shouldn’t be considered cheating. In the US it’s grounds for divorce where in Japan I feel like it’s a bit more to be expected.

I guess the country where the industry has prevelance is correlated with peoples acceptance. Almost all my friends in Japan have tried Fuzoku and none of my American friends have :/ This is one reason I try to promote it and I don’t care what people think about me as well haha

 

[User#8628]

Almost all my friends in Japan have tried Fuzoku and none of my American friends have :/

This is definitely an important difference.
Also men from some western countries seem to be ashamed that they “have to pay for it” because it hurts their manliness but i feel like Japanese guys don’t think like that, especially if they are bit older.
Rather, paying means you have money to spend and is a statun symbol, and you can expect good service and omotenashi, rather than with a random hookup.
Its definitely not uncommon to monger together with work colleagues here, although also not totally unheard off in the west of course.

I think this attitude is a lot more positive.
As for guys “cheating” on their wives. Most guys i have met through p4p have an (almost completely) sexless marriage and their wives actively reject them and do not want sex. So I actually think its a lot more gentle for them to go discretely looking for it outside of the home then to force themselves on their wife and demand them to fullfill their “marriage duties”.
Of course there are other options like divorce, but that may hurt the kids and ruin an otherwise functional marriage. There is also just giving up on sex, which many Japanese guys do also according to surveys, but that may leave them alone, miserable and depressed if they actually still have a sexdrive. There are real affairs that are more dangerous to get too emotional and mess up the marriage.
Best option would maybe be therapy but not all wives would be up for it and happy with the suggestion.

 

[all4naughty69]

This is definitely an important difference.
Also men from some western countries seem to be ashamed that they “have to pay for it” because it hurts their manliness but i feel like Japanese guys don’t think like that, especially if they are bit older.
Rather, paying means you have money to spend and is a statun symbol, and you can expect good service and omotenashi, rather than with a random hookup.
Its definitely not uncommon to monger together with work colleagues here, although also not totally unheard off in the west of course.

I think this attitude is a lot more positive.
As for guys “cheating” on their wives. Most guys i have met through p4p have an (almost completely) sexless marriage and their wives actively reject them and do not want sex. So I actually think its a lot more gentle for them to go discretely looking for it outside of the home then to force themselves on their wife and demand them to fullfill their “marriage duties”.
Of course there are other options like divorce, but that may hurt the kids and ruin an otherwise functional marriage. There is also just giving up on sex, which many Japanese guys do also according to surveys, but that may leave them alone, miserable and depressed if they actually still have a sexdrive. There are real affairs that are more dangerous to get too emotional and mess up the marriage.
Best option would maybe be therapy but not all wives would be up for it and happy with the suggestion.

Exactly this... you cannot compare the two. I’m above average in Japan but don’t feel more successful if I pick up vs. pay. I’m not interested in the chase most of the time and love the excitement of meeting a girl who is out of my league and gives their full attention and service to me. The culture here and Thailand is much better.

A little off topic but SESTA/ FOSTA was such a set back to an already terrible scene in the US and one of the reasons I don’t want to move back

I know people with the sexless marriages you speak of yet they remain loyal and don’t divorce for the sake of the children. Really sad to be honest. Do you feel it should be a sexless marriage in order to justify P4P? I think variety is a big factor but might be considered being selfish if the wife is fulfilling sexual needs.

 

[LeonGRAY]

Well.. you always pay for sex. Either with your time or with your money.

But...

 

[steve969696]

Not all sexless marriages are bad, if u can have private P4P. My marriage has been sexless for 20ish years. Honestly in my thirties my libido went down and it wasn’t a huge problem. But in my 40s it came back stronger than ever (maybe this is why divorces happen often then!).

I started with massage and HJ and escalated to full on P4P about 10 years ago. My wife and I are BOTH happier now. She doesn’t know I P4P but I am a genuinely happier and better husband as a result. And of course I get to have intimate relationships with a bunch of 20 somethings but without the emotional baggage.

So please don’t assume u should feel sorry for sexless marriages. I like living with a 50 year old friend that shares my interests, but I am pretty sure the sex with the 20 year olds is a whole lot better! So win win. IMO.

 

[MikeH]

She doesn’t know I P4P

That's what she wants you to believe.

 

[steve969696]

That's what she wants you to believe.

That would be even better. I'd prefer if it was that she is just looking the other way and perhaps on some level she is. But either ignorance or tacit complicity is is fine with me as long as I can keep,seeing my ladies!

 

[Frenchy]

in most cases, better to keep it secret
But sometimes constantly living lies become too heavy to bear

 

[Sudsy]

They glorify the exploitation of women and high five their fellow comrades. The type to go to night clubs and try to fondle girls against their will.

These are also the kind of people with whom I do not share my own tales. They're also the kind of bozos that get us banned from places.

I generally don't discuss my P4P activities with anyone outside this board, aside from a very few select friends who share my views on how the ladies should be treated and are equally circumspect in their choice of who to discuss the hobby with. Unsurprisingly, met them on other hobby sites.

 

[Wwanderer]

I generally don't discuss my P4P activities with anyone outside this board, aside from a very few select friends who share my views on how the ladies should be treated and are equally circumspect in their choice of who to discuss the hobby with. Unsurprisingly, met them on other hobby sites.

Same or very similar for me.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

If you are married or have a steady girlfriend, you should never let your co-workers or business partners know that you hobby. If your wife can't trust you, why should they? This is very simple undeniable logic that trumps everything. It is Japanese culture for co-workers and business partners to partake in P4P as part of business entertainment. But it is bad culture and it is not really necessary to get ahead. In fact, the most successful people I know, don't do it.

Discretion is everything in Japan, but so many idiots, Japanese and gaijin alike, dont see this.

Even if you are not married, I still say keep a low mongering profile. All the smart guys do.

 

[LeonGRAY]

If you are married or have a steady girlfriend, you should never let your co-workers or business partners know that you hobby. If your wife can't trust you, why should they? This is very simple undeniable logic that trumps everything. It is Japanese culture for co-workers and business partners to partake in P4P as part of business entertainment. But it is bad culture and it is not really necessary to get ahead. In fact, the most successful people I know, don't do it.

Discretion is everything in Japan, but so many idiots, Japanese and gaijin alike, dont see this.

Even if you are not married, I still say keep a low mongering profile. All the smart guys do.

This.

And why would you tell someone? What could you possibly gain? A deeper friendship? Lol.. weird topic.

 

[all4naughty69]

If you are married or have a steady girlfriend, you should never let your co-workers or business partners know that you hobby. If your wife can't trust you, why should they? This is very simple undeniable logic that trumps everything. It is Japanese culture for co-workers and business partners to partake in P4P as part of business entertainment. But it is bad culture and it is not really necessary to get ahead. In fact, the most successful people I know, don't do it.

Discretion is everything in Japan, but so many idiots, Japanese and gaijin alike, dont see this.

Even if you are not married, I still say keep a low mongering profile. All the smart guys do.

Yeah of course I don’t tell my S.O. and don’t really partake when I’m in a relationship... and forget about telling your wife.

I expect most guys to keep it a secret and act with discretion but I personally don’t think it’s such a big deal. Half the fun of hobbying it is chatting to people, sharing experiences, and learning about new places (hence why we all use this board). I just don’t see the negative consequences :/

 

[Wwanderer]

TAnd why would you tell someone? What could you possibly gain? A deeper friendship? Lol.. weird topic.

A few years ago I found out that a business associate and pretty good friend of mine (he and his wife are also family friends) is an active SD on SA by way of a very improbable accident/fluke. After quite a lot of thought, I decided that it was too asymmetrical and unfair for me to know about his sugaring while he knew nothing of mine, so I told him the whole story. It was a bit awkward at first, but in the end, yes indeed, it led to a deeper friendship and some very interesting conversations.

I'm also a member of a private, guys only, monger board (not in Tokyo) which you can only join by being nominated by a member who has met you in real life and then voted in by the membership based on their impression of your posts on open boards...plus a bit of investigation of your bona fides by one of the members who is a good position to do such things. The board is a VERY valuable and exclusive source of information on mongering in places where there are active members.

So yeah, there are some advantages to talking about one's mongering, to other mongers at least, though it is still a matter to be treated very cautiously imo.

-Ww

 

[TinyNymph]

I feel like I have nothing to hide being a provider and I feel no shame or need for secrecy regarding the subject. At the same time, I'm somewhat difficult to get to know initially, and take my time opening up to new friends, when they pass the threshold from acquaintance to good friend, at some point along the way I will tell them about what I do if it comes up naturally. I think it's quite different for providers and mongers though, and although I also think there is no shame in mongering (two sides of the same coin), I can understand that things can become complicated if there's any level of infidelity involved.

Talking about p4p is important and necessary, keeping secrets makes me feel uneasy and bound by them. I'm not a huge proponent of monogamy and mostly practice open relationships, I think those models of relationships lend themselves well to understanding sexual needs without equating love with ownership, which allows room to participate in and discuss p4p without backlash.

 

[Wwanderer]

I'm not a huge proponent of monogamy and mostly practice open relationships, I think those models of relationships lend themselves well to understanding sexual needs without equating love with ownership, which allows room to participate in and discuss p4p without backlash.

Very important and very well said, imo. Bravo!

Dudes and dudettes, pay attention; the lady is laying a powerful and valuable insight on us here. One like isn't sufficient for this post.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

I feel like I have nothing to hide being a provider and I feel no shame or need for secrecy regarding the subject. At the same time, I'm somewhat difficult to get to know initially, and take my time opening up to new friends, when they pass the threshold from acquaintance to good friend, at some point along the way I will tell them about what I do if it comes up naturally. I think it's quite different for providers and mongers though, and although I also think there is no shame in mongering (two sides of the same coin), I can understand that things can become complicated if there's any level of infidelity involved.

Talking about p4p is important and necessary, keeping secrets makes me feel uneasy and bound by them. I'm not a huge proponent of monogamy and mostly practice open relationships, I think those models of relationships lend themselves well to understanding sexual needs without equating love with ownership, which allows room to participate in and discuss p4p without backlash.

So there is nobody on the planet from whom you keep you profession secret? Parents? Young impressionable relatives? The point for me is that, yes lies and secrets are not good, but most of us have complicated lives that require some level of compartmentalization and information control. As a monger, l find it essential to not share the hobby with coworkers, business associates or anyone I need to trust and who should be able to trust me.

 

[LeonGRAY]

So yeah, there are some advantages to talking about one's mongering, to other mongers at least, though it is still a matter to be treated very cautiously imo.

-Ww

No. Just no