Is P4P always better kept a secret?

But I can only base this on where I come from and a particular culture.

Im this is a crucial caveat to all you have said.

There is a HUGE range of cultural attitudes towards p4p and sex in general on the planet, and there can be very different subcultures regarding these topics even within a single culture.

The assertions made by nearly everyone in this thread are contingent, not absolute, ones...whether they know or acknowledge it or not. And very importantly, an adult with some experience of the world can usually find ways to live at least important parts of their lives in a subculture of their own choice. This is an abstract way of expressing what I think @User#8628 and @TinyNymph mean when they say that they seek out open relationships, nonjudgmental friends etc.

-Ww
 
That way, the stigma will never be broken, and if people will find out by playing detective the consequences will be much worse because nobody speaks up against stigma.

This.

Imo there are pros and cons of keeping one's p4p involvements secret, but surely one of the worst aspects is that it sends the message (including to oneself) that commercial sex is wrong and shameful. Despite @LeonGRAY's apparently very rigid view (expressed above somewhere) that there are *no* advantages to being open about sex work or mongering, it can be hugely liberating and psychologically positive to connect with the p4p community (which includes some truly awesome folks!). This is a, perhaps the, major reason that anonymous internet forums like this one had such an enormous impact on the whole atmosphere and quality of commercial sex. As someone who had long experience in p4p before it had any online presence, it would be hard for me to exaggerate the difference it made.

Btw, there have been somewhat analogous debates among homosexuals and, more recently, trans people. In those cases too, some feel that the maximum possible secrecy is the right choice, to avoid the stigmatization and to avoid its consequential discrimination, while others have argued for openness to fight them.

-Ww
 
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This.

Imo there are pros and cons of keeping one's p4p involvements secret, but surely one of the worst aspects is that it sends the message (including to oneself) that commercial sex is wrong and shameful.
-Ww

This sounds great in theory, but not all of us are in a place where we can openly talk about our p4p encounters. We simply don’t want to lose our jobs or become stigmatized. Some people live in societies or communities where any indication of premarital sex will get you shunned away. That doesn’t mean we are willing to send the message that commercial sex is wrong. It’s like telling a woman in Iran to liberate herself by taking off her hijab, it sounds like a dream but probably she will find herself under custody being exploited by the law force.

Some men and women can openly talk about their profession and hobby, and I am very grateful that they are working against the stigma. However if I did that I would lose my job and I could no longer take care of my financial responsibilities. I also enjoy my vanilla job, Escorting is good and all but I’m quite passionate about my dayjob.
 
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This sounds great in theory, but not all of us are in a place where we can openly talk about our p4p encounters. We simply don’t want to lose our jobs or become stigmatized. Some people live in societies or communities where any indication of premarital sex will get you shunned away. That doesn’t mean we are willing to send the message that we commercial sex is wrong. It’s like telling a woman in Iran to liberate herself by taking off her hijab, it sounds like a dream but probably she will find herself under custody being exploited by the law force.

Some men and women can openly talk about their profession and hobby, and I am very grateful that they are working against the stigma. However if I did that I would lose my job and I could no longer take care of my financial responsibilities.

I recognize and agree with all the points you make...and, again, they parallel considerations that affect LGBTQ+ folks. The "right" answer on secretiveness vs openness depends on an individual's circumstances and is obviously and necessarily a matter for individual judgements, just as you say.

My post was intended to argue against the opinion that it is *always* better to keep everything secret (as expressed by @LeonGRAY and @warubuta in this thread) and to second @User#8628's point that one positive of openness is that it works to counter the stigmatization.

-Ww
 
I recognize and agree with all the points you make...and, again, they parallel considerations that affect LGBTQ+ folks. The "right" answer on secretiveness vs openness depends on an individual's circumstances and is obviously and necessarily a matter for individual judgements, just as you say.

My post was intended to argue against the opinion that it is *always* better to keep everything secret (as expressed by @LeonGRAY and @warubuta in this thread) and to second @User#8628's point that one positive of openness is that it works to counter the stigmatization.

-Ww
Oops. Since I put warubuta on my ignore list, the context of your post seemed a bit different. Lol
 
Oops. Since I put warubuta on my ignore list, the context of your post seemed a bit different. Lol

Ahhh...understood, no problem.

I have the same problem at times with @Frenchy, whom I have on ignore. Some normally sensible person will make a post that seems pointless, silly or untethered to reality for no apparent reason. It took me a while to figure out that they are probably/mostly responses to his posts which I can't see. It can be a little confusing, but it is a small price to pay for...well, you know.

-Ww
 
Ahhh...understood, no problem.

I have the same problem at times with @Frenchy, whom I have on ignore. Some normally sensible person will make a post that seems pointless, silly or untethered to reality for no apparent reason. It took me a while to figure out that they are probably/mostly responses to his posts which I can't see. It can be a little confusing, but it is a small price to pay for...well, you know.

-Ww

... Protecting a bruised ego? Staying in your own bragging professoral bubble? Avoiding the smells of garlic and stinky cheese?
 
Of course "sex life" is such a private topic. It can be "sport" to some sex is my hobby type of people. But I think it would be more better living if, "I ain't have a chance to make love with my wife. I hear such a wild "need" from my son. He wants to go wild, but donno what to do, it's been killing me! I might go depressed, if I didn't get what I want!"

if you can share that at your work break time with your colleagues, perhaps life can be easier,.but the reality, you need some drinks to go beyond, right?

So, that's why there's TAG forum. TAG management has been saving your sex life, I guess! We should give thanks highly to them!!
 
That way, the stigma will never be broken, and if people will find out by playing detective the consequences will be much worse because nobody speaks up against stigma.

Also for many people paying would be better than being promiscuous.
Many women would have a lot harder time if they found out that their husband fell in love with a colleague than that he paid for services.
Be careful what you wish for. If there were no stigma, you would have so much competition that your earnings would plummet. Uniqlo would be in the business at the blink of an eye and they would be selling pussies right along side the khakis. 3,980yen.
 
Telling people you engage in P4P to "deepen the friendship" (lol?) sounds like the ramblings of a lonely guy :rolleyes:(n)

--LG

What an odd perspective! :confused::cautious:

I am under the impression that discussing important aspects of one's life as well as less personal topics (sports, politics, music, movies, gadgets...whatever) is a totally ordinary way that people develop and deepen friendships. You make it sound somehow weird, desperate or shameful. Or do you not talk to your friends??

Your strange opinion only makes sense if you somehow have p4p in a different category from all the other things one does or likes. Perhaps you are among those who stigmatize p4p, but whatever the reason, it is pretty clear that you are looking at the topic in large part through a mirror.

-Ww
 
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Be careful what you wish for. If there were no stigma, you would have so much competition that your earnings would plummet. Uniqlo would be in the business at the blink of an eye and they would be selling pussies right along side the khakis. 3,980yen.

This must be why one so often hears sex workers wishing their occupation was even more stigmatized and yet more severely punished legally (or made illegal places where it is legal)...the better to keep down the competition and drive up prices. <Where is the damn sarcasm emoji when you need it?!>

I mean I have discussed such topics with countless sex workers of many sorts in locations around the world and over a period of decades, and I am certain that I have encountered that sort of sentiment no more than zero times.

-Ww
 
My wife for years has always given me a free p4p pass when we are in Japan. But even so, I always felt guilty about it, so I never did any regular mongering until just a few years ago (ahh, regrets). She would even sometimes remind me about it when we visited Japan. So I once asked her why she would allow me to do this. And her answer surprised me. She said that, if she were a man, she would definitely want to have fun trying out p4p, "asobi" (playing) as she calls it . She is japanese, knows that the fuzoku trade is big in Japan, and I think she just understands that men can experience sex as just a pleasurable, fun thing to do and not have much emotional involvement.. Or maybe she is just very open minded and understanding. She's always been a very self secure and confident, so maybe that helps too. I always wonder if I would still monger without the pass. Anyway, I feel less guilty for sure, and I don't need to hide it from her. I'm still very discreet about it and only tell her if needed, like when I know I will be back really late, so she doesn't worry. But I'm glad I don't have to really sneak around and worry about getting caught.

I've only shared about my p4p experiences here, with a couple really close male friends, and I'm pretty open about with other p4p providers too.
 
This must be why one so often hears sex workers wishing their occupation was even more stigmatized and yet more severely punished legally (or made illegal places where it is legal)...the better to keep down the competition and drive up prices. <Where is the damn sarcasm emoji when you need it?!>

I mean I have discussed such topics with countless sex workers of many sorts in locations around the world and over a period of decades, and I am certain that I have encountered that sort of sentiment no more than zero times.

-Ww
Then how do you account for the fact that prices (compared to other prices in the same local economy), in general, are higher in markets where it is more illegal ie. punishments and fines are higher? Escorts have a harder time making a living in places where it is tolerated both legally and socially than in markets where it isn’t. Delhi vs Bangkok for example. NYC vs Amsterdam for example.
 
I mean I have discussed such topics with countless sex workers of many sorts in locations around the world and over a period of decades

-Ww
i know what you secretely desire Ww... a huge medal or a trophy or something similar... so American , the “blabla-award winner Mr.XYZ” (or even just nominated, only country in the world where you boast about being nominated, LOL!) .
Lets all fork a few yens to erect a digital statue to the Great Wizard of So Many p4P Encounters in So Many Places Over So Many Years :ROFLMAO:
 
In those cases too, some feel that the maximum possible secrecy is the right choice, to avoid the stigmatization and to avoid its consequential discrimination,
I wouldn’t mind going that way per se, but the consequence is that if one’s real identity is discovered and they are outed (a risk which has increased enormously in the digital age and has also made anonymous outing an option for people who may not have wanted to admit they were sniffing around in a sexy world themselves), there is basically no chance at sympathy or being accepted. Even if they quit their lifestyle it will most likely be too late to restore their image and to be accepted again. So what’s left for those people?
 
My wife for years has always given me a free p4p pass when we are in Japan. But even so, I always felt guilty about it, so I never did any regular mongering until just a few years ago (ahh, regrets). She would even sometimes remind me about it when we visited Japan. So I once asked her why she would allow me to do this. And her answer surprised me. She said that, if she were a man, she would definitely want to have fun trying out p4p, "asobi" (playing) as she calls it . She is japanese, knows that the fuzoku trade is big in Japan, and I think she just understands that men can experience sex as just a pleasurable, fun thing to do and not have much emotional involvement.. Or maybe she is just very open minded and understanding. She's always been a very self secure and confident, so maybe that helps too. I always wonder if I would still monger without the pass. Anyway, I feel less guilty for sure, and I don't need to hide it from her. I'm still very discreet about it and only tell her if needed, like when I know I will be back really late, so she doesn't worry. But I'm glad I don't have to really sneak around and worry about getting caught.

I've only shared about my p4p experiences here, with a couple really close male friends, and I'm pretty open about with other p4p providers too.
Your wife sounds awesome!
I don’t think you have to feel guilty since she approaches it pretty playfully. I don’t want to speculate too much but you having a good time may make her excited as well.

I know that in relationships, it’s exciting for me personally to see my partner with someone else. It makes me a bit jealous sometimes, but also quite horny.
 
(or made illegal places where it is legal)
I’ve heard some SW argue that it shouldn’t be legal. I can understand when looking at places like Germany but i think those prices are more thanks to the EU. I think legalization works well for Australia for example.

Most women want it to be decriminalized at least.
 
Like many things I dont talk about P4P beyond the theoretical. There was one exception to that and that was someone I knew could take a secret to his grave and in this case he did exactly that.