Local Crime Prevention Watch Endorses Japanese Only Practice In Ikebukuro

Discussion in 'General Topics - Life in Japan' started by johnnyboy84, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. johnnyboy84

    johnnyboy84 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Friday
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    278
    The other day in Ikebukuro, near by the 7-11 on the North Exit is a fashion health place called Tomato Navi. I passed by the entrance and the front door says in English "Japanese Only." Below that, it is written in Japanese that the message is endorsed by the Tokyo Crime Prevention Watch. I don't know if this organization is a volunteer non-profit group or a local government sanctioned watch but it does give me a more direct look at these practices. In most instances from what I have experienced, this mostly due to language issues and in some other instances, fearing that foreigners have diseases. Even if some of the places management allow foreigners on whether or not they understand Japanese, the individual girls still refuse the right to provide services to them. But I am guessing in the past, some foreigners may have caused trouble to the point that they can exclude foreigners under the recognition of such a group.

    Practicing such exclusion in this industry is one thing and I don't have that much of an issue with it. I don't equate this anywhere near Jim Crow as practiced between post-slavery and civil rights movement in the southern US. I would only have a major issue with it if I go to a local Gusto or use transportation and they do this.
     
    User#3673 likes this.
  2. meiji

    Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Aug 25, 2021
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    4,866
    Would be interesting to see a picture of it and track it down on the internet. I'd doubt that it's affiliated with the government at all. There's certainly a lot of semi-official anti-foreigner sentiment (the English and Chinese 'say no to drugs' announcements in Kabukicho for example), but I think you are right. A lot of 'Japanese only' sentiment is less racism and more language barrier and behavioral.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    KumaDog likes this.
  3. johnnyboy84

    johnnyboy84 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Friday
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    278
    I would have taken a picture if the "boy" who works wasn't standing right by that sign (but didn't give each other any looks).

    Yeah, in context to Japanese Only in the Fuuzoku Industry, it is mostly language barrier and that the girls are likely to feel insecure around foreigners regardless of language ability and concerns with STDs (not like they can't get it from fellow Japanese anyway. I remember some time ago at a Pink Salon, there was a strand of gonnerhea that was pretty bad).

    But it is funny in some stores and services, at least in the ones that openly cater to foreigners, the women PREFER foreign men over Japanese.
     
    User#3673 likes this.
  4. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    2,190
    I disagree, when a sign is posted, it's very racist/xenophobic and very Jim Crow. Language is used as an EXCUSE to COVER the discrimination.

    If it's just language, places don't usually post a "No Foreigners Allowed" sign. They ask you if you can speak Japanese. If so, you are in. If not, come back when you can speak Japanese.

    Momocafe in Shinjuku is a good example. They have a policy where you must speak Japanese. They don't post racist signs up. They ask you if you can speak Japanese, test you, then thumbs up or down.

    By the way, in Hawaii or California, do Americans have a policy where Japanese must speak English to enter our clubs?

    My experience has been with places that post a sign, even if you do speak Japanese, they will show their racist/xenophobic side. The next excuse will often be some vague stories about foreigners causing trouble. If you ask for specifics, they will often tell you some lie about an event that happened YEARS ago or happened at a completely DIFFERENT place.

    When is the last time you heard of a Western country with a club that banned ALL Japanese because 1 Japanese person had a fight in their club?

    We shouldn't be Japanese apologist for their racism/xenophobia.

    Over the years, I've had seen many examples of it. And have talked to Japanese owners of establishmets that had "Japanese Only" and "No Foreigners Allowed".

    Case in point. Years ago went club hopping in Okinawa, Naha. Was with a half Black/half Japanese pal, who grew up in Japan. Came to a club playing Black American Hip Hop music, of all things.

    Club had a sign saying "No Foreigners". But my pal is half Japanese... So we think we might be able to enter, even though I'm American. Nope. They told him, a bi-racial Japanese citizen with Japanese ID that HE could not enter the club.

    A year ago, was hanging out in Sasebo. Saw several clubs with the "No Foreigners Allowed". Guess what? My Japanese speaking ability was of no use whatsoever. And if you were White, Black, or Latino then you were NOT getting in. Because it's a race based policy.

    Have you seen "Whites Only", "No Japanese Allowed", or "No Asians" signs posted in any clubs in any Western country in the last 50 years? Japan is backwards, and the UN has sent inspectors to Japan who concluded it is a racist country. Their words, not mine.

    We should call a spade, a spade. If a Japanese business is posting "No Foreigners Allowed" or "Japanese Only" signs outside their door in 2014, we should conclude they are racist and know EXACTLY what they are doing.

    If they wanted to, they could post- "You Must Speak Japanese To Enter", "You Must Speak Japanese", "No Speak English" But that is not what they are doing.

    Some clubs I have been to that are NOT racist/xenophobic, but concerned about your ability to speak Japanese or if foreigners tourists/American military might damage their club, will have "Japanese ID Only". Various clubs in Nishi-Azabu had this policy. If you had a work visa and Japanese ID, as a foreigner, you could come in.

    "No Foreigners" usually means, "No Non-Asians/No Non-Japanese". "Japanese Only" means "No People Not Of Japanese Nationality". Places with signs like that are usually really racist/xenophobic establishments.
     
    #4 Solong, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  5. johnnyboy84

    johnnyboy84 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Friday
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    278
    Let's just say in context to the "service industries," even if these businesses could allow foreigners, that does not stop the girls, from reserving the right to refuse service to foreigners.

    However, I would have a major issue with it if lets say a Gusto did this, a Saizeriya, or if I wanted to fix a flat tire on my bike and the guy would refuse me because I am a foreigner, or if a bank would refuse me to open an account. Then yes, that is a problem.

    In America, though systematic discrimination is outlawed, I have seen signs in some businesses that say they refuse the right to serve anyone.
     
    #5 johnnyboy84, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  6. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    182
    I don't care if I get flagged. Living in post-apocalyptic St. Louis has led me to reevaluate Jim Crow.

    Are white/Asian/Hispanic/black gaijin for that matter) brutally raping and killing Japanese women? It's weird that they are allowed to discriminate, where that's very unlikely, whereas we are condemned for defending our very lives (Zimmermann, Wilson, etc.)

    Enough of that rant. I don't hate. I'm just sick to death of black on white/Hispanic/ Asian violence in U.S. Cities.

    If you live in heaven ( japan) don't judge me for what I think about hell ( north St. Louis).



    If japanese people have to exclude me to avoid feeling the same kind of fear that many feel in St. Louis/ Detroit: Chicago/Memphis, then I can't fault then for it, even if I don't understand why they are afraid of me.
     
    #6 GoldenDalton, Nov 1, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  7. Solong

    Solong TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    2,190
    I think your racial hate of Blacks and Hispanics is misplaced, and particularly in context to your interest in Japanese women.

    I'm sure we can find a long list of violence by Whites against Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians. Shall we pretend slavery, slave codes, rape of slaves, lynching of Blacks, and Jim Crow didn't exist. I'm not a liberal or anything, but have thumbed through a history book.

    And would not your problem be solved by moving to Germany and shacking up with a Neo-Nazi woman and preparing for WW3 and the genocide of all the other races? Just saying.

    Otherwise, why don't we have a little tolerance for each other ;-)

    1) The situation in Japan is about Jim Crow like laws and racist discrimination based on hysteria. Foreigners and other races are tightly controlled by immigration. This is totally different than the situation in the U.S.

    2) Foreigners do LESS crime than the native Japanese population. So again, hysteria and propaganda for political purposes are at work, versus a true foreign threat or problem.

    3) If the Japanese hate foreigners so, then should Western countries discriminate against the Japanese?

    Hawaii and California arguably need
    "No Japanese" signs.
     
    #7 Solong, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  8. bichan2

    bichan2 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Last Seen:
    Yesterday
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    971
    How about we all agree to disagree? Then maybe we can move on with things in life, because we all are not going to agree with everything.
     
    dreams and just4fun like this.
  9. dreams

    dreams TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    686
    Yes indeed.

    And for our American friends, pl remember that TAG is an international forum, and we are not all interested/familiar with St Louis racal tensions. Not that it is not an important topic, but probably better discussed elsewhere.
    As regards the "no gaijins" Japanese policies, this a fact of life in japan. If you don't like it, you have the freedom to move elsewhere. Not the case everywhere else in the world.
     
    John Chavers and bichan2 like this.
  10. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    182
    I don't hate anyone-I didn't even mention anything negative against hispanics. I'm just observing the meltdown of the U.S.
    No one denies any crimes committed by the white population. In fact, they are broadcasted and maximized at every opportunity. The U.S. government has spent 50 trillion dollars since Brown vs. Board of Education to assimilate the black American population. Now the welfare state is showing signs of collapse. Expect it to get ugly. We are already culturally Balkanized.

    Just for the sake of argument-How much is the (quite logical, if Draconian) internment of Japanese Americans during WWII discussed in the history books to shame White Americans? As far as I'm aware I'm the only person I know of who knows anything about WWII Japanese atrocities.

    I'm not a Neo-Nazi in the slightest. That's a silly tactic that has been done to death. The non-black (Hispanic, White, Asian) populations in the U.S. are waking up to the climate of extreme violence, and the fact that there will never be any way to please the black body politic. The average white American is becoming ever more sick of being blamed for everything under the sun, yet having no means of satisfying the rioting hordes.

    But I definitely don't get what how someone feels about blacks has anything to do with Japanese women. That makes no sense to me. One can dislike the French yet love the English. You don't have to be a fake "anti-racist" to appreciate another group.

    Edit: I an only half-white. I thought I mentioned that in another thread.
     
    #10 GoldenDalton, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  11. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    182
    I only brought it up as it was relevant to the topic (mention of Jim Crow). It's bound to come up as it is one half of the comparison/contrast.

    But yes, I agree that St. Louis, or the U.S. in general, is not all that relevant. I come to this forum to escape. Unfortunately my relocation abroad is looking more and more like a fantasy.
     
    #11 GoldenDalton, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  12. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    182
    I understand Solong's dislike of those policies. They are shitty, no doubt. My point was that as things stand right now, only certain countries are expected to adopt a multicultural, ethnically pluralistic stance, which is causing unrest throughout the western world. I very much doubt, given the utter failure of multiculturalism in the E.U., the unrest in the U.S., that the Japanese will want to take on that burden.

    I could be wrong though. And I get what Solong is saying- it is irritating. Especially since we are not allowed to have that attitude in our own countries.
     
  13. johnnyboy84

    johnnyboy84 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Friday
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    278
    I understand and agree with what Solong is saying but my only discrimination experience in Japan is in context to the punting world and not in clubbing or going to onsen. Punting is one thing, but using public transportation, attending public restrooms, parks, schools, and the like are another. I don't think foreigners not being allowed to use certain soaplands and the likes should not be ground for equal rights marches, Ferguson style protests or anything like that. If I am not allowed to ride a bus or train because i am a gaijin, or not use a public drinking fountain because I am a gaijin, then that is a real problem.

    I grew up in border states and a huge fraction of my family lives in California and in Arizona. I hate going to a McDonald's/Burger King, KFC, a gas station or a grocery store in my parents' neighborhood or down the street where I went to high school and the people who working there don't speak a lick of English. And my experiences in that is also why I understand the Japanese language policy for some of these providers (and why I took the time to learn Japanese before coming here). And America's federal policy on illegal immigration makes the states pay for it (when it should be a federal government sanction responsibility where the states have no money for it) and was bankrupting counties and cities near the border during the illegal immigration spike earlier this year.
     
    GoldenDalton likes this.
  14. dreams

    dreams TAG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    686
    So you would be happy if you could be as bad in your own country...I am puzzled.
     
  15. User#3673

    User#3673 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    88
    While I agree with most of this, it still bothers me, that one bad apple non-Japanese, can get a whole group of people (us) banned. Ironically, most of the businesses we are talking about here are owned by Yakuza. And many of them, perhaps
    80% ( I have read) are Burakumin or Korean, two groups who have experienced a lot of racism over the years in Japan.

    I always think it is ironic that the groups who have experienced the most racism, rather than learn from it, they perpetuate it. Rather then benefit from our money, which is the same Yen the Japanese use, they will ban us. You would think
    that after experiencing what the Koreans and Burakumin have in Japan, that they would be welcoming. But no, they perpetuate the cycle. Sad.

    And they lose business.

    If it ever gets to the point that I cannot enjoy a cheese in hamburger at Gusto, I am outta here!

    I`m just happy I can enjoy my sausage in hamburger at the smarter shops! LOL
     
  16. User#3673

    User#3673 TAG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    88
    Solong, this is Bang on buddy! You hit it on the head!!!!!
     
  17. John Chavers

    John Chavers By Jove, you couldn't make this shit up

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Last Seen:
    Aug 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    I think you're vastly overestimating the number of gaijin punters in this country.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. GoldenDalton

    GoldenDalton TAG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Last Seen:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    182
    My perspective is not the standard one, admittedly.

    Im half-Welsh, half-Kiowan. I grew up for part of my childhood on a reservation in Oklahoma, which was created just for us by illegal immigrants well over a century ago. A true celebration of diversity if there ever was one.

    When it comes to illegal immigration, legal immigration, cultural theft, etc. What do you expect a Kiowan to say? Even a half-breed like me?If anyone wants an example of a people destroyed by unchecked immigration, look no further than the Kiowa nation.

    And while I agree with Solong that it sucks that gaijin are excluded, there's another side to it also.

    The rapes in Okinawa, the rapes in Oklahoma, the one-sided nature of it is something to be aware of. Being aware doesn't make someone a hater or neo-nazi.
     

Share This Page