Looking for a good place to hook up girls!!!???

[Solong]

1).
4). You are a swinger yourself. So what is bad if a girl actually doesn't WANT to keep one guy interested in her but wants to enjoy sex with a large number of guys and uses her favorite club as a place to meet them?
5). You are thinking way too much into things. Women aren't all that evil and manipulative and if they are it only balances out with the advantages that men already have. Plus some people just break up with their exes because they meet someone better, and by better i mean better character, not job.
Personally i enjoy casual sex but in relationships i don't hop from one guy to the other. Your view of women is quite twisted..

4) Club Rat & Swinging Not The Same

Swingers are usually very open and honest about sex and their sexuality. They are not trying to cheat, scam, or trick the other person.

I do NOT have anything negative to say about swinger women. In fact, love women who convert to the swinger lifestyle.

A club rat, is often very much trying to cheat, trick, and scam guys. Often her point is to get over on or is being abusive towards guys. She is pulling and trapping them by using sex or acting sexy as a lure.

Club rats tend to lie about their purpose and lie about casual sex, pretending to be "misunderstood good girls" or even victims, when instead she's often the villain and causing the drama. Often the guys have no idea about how she truly is and what she's doing, because she isn't honest.

5) Hypergamous Women

You are being upset with me, as if I created the term or as if it's specifically my term for women.

That women tend to be hypergamous, is well understood and accepted in psychology circles and has numerous correlations to animal behavior in biology.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypergamy

The key here is when such women enter the relationships with men, he does NOT realize: that she views him as disposable, temporary, has no loyalty, or she plans to dump him whenever she thinks someone better has come along.

There is absolutely nothing wrong for you or HIM to enjoy casual sex. What we are talking about is that both parties understand the nature of the relationship. What is being referred to is loyalty, fairness, and equal satisfaction with the relationship.

It's not "twisted" to be realistic about commonly known female behavior, and for men to be mindful of it. In this way, it's more likely that fair and equally satisfying relationships come about.

 

[User#8628]

4) Club Rat & Swinging Not The Same

Swingers are usually very open and honest about sex and their sexuality. They are not trying to cheat, scam, or trick the other person.

I do NOT have anything negative to say about swinger women. In fact, love women who convert to the swinger lifestyle.

A club rat, is often very much trying to cheat, trick, and scam guys. Often her point is to get over on or is being abusive towards guys. She is pulling and trapping them by using sex or acting sexy as a lure.

Club rats tend to lie about their purpose and lie about casual sex, pretending to be "misunderstood good girls" or even victims, when instead she's often the villain and causing the drama. Often the guys have no idea about how she truly is and what she's doing, because she isn't honest.

5) Hypergamous Women

You are being upset with me, as if I created the term or as if it's specifically my term for women.

That women tend to be hypergamous, is well understood and accepted in psychology circles and has numerous correlations to animal behavior in biology.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypergamy

The key here is when such women enter the relationships with men, he does NOT realize: that she views him as disposable, temporary, has no loyalty, or she plans to dump him whenever she thinks someone better has come along.

There is absolutely nothing wrong for you or HIM to enjoy casual sex. What we are talking about is that both parties understand the nature of the relationship. What is being referred to is loyalty, fairness, and equal satisfaction with the relationship.

It's not "twisted" to be realistic about commonly known female behavior, and for men to be mindful of it. In this way, it's more likely that fair and equally satisfying relationships come about.

4). I'm curious what kind of drama you exactly mean. It doesn't seem bad to me at all to have a regular hang out to meet up people for casual sex every weekend or whatever. If that is what they like to do with their life, good for them. I don't know much of drama or (not money related) scam in club situations, please explain.

5). Women may tend to manipulate, but men have equally bad traits in relationships. You should always carefully observe your partner's behavior.

 

[Wwanderer]

Your view of women is quite twisted..

As I've commented in numerous previous thread's, @Solong 's description of women and their behavior is so different from my personal experiences and knowledge of relationships around me that I always feel that we must be inhabiting different planets. I think it is partly, glass half full vs half empty and partly that we attract and are attracted to quite different sorts of women. As you, @User#8628 , know quite well, I interact with a fairly steady stream of new young women, and I would have to think a while to even remember the last time I was treated badly by a woman in a way that I would describe as evil or objectionably manipulative.

-Ww

 

[TokyoML]

so different from my personal experiences

But isn't this part of life. With over 6 billion people, everybody's DNA is different.
That is why LIFE is so interesting. There is no "one" way to do stuff. If we were all the same or have "similar" thinking, life would be so much more boring.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

We all can agree to disagree what works for one person is different from another person.


I like reading Solong and Sinapase's perspectives while also respecting Wwanderer's perspective. Keep postings...guys

 

[Solong]

As I've commented in numerous previous thread's, @Solong 's description of women and their behavior is so different from my personal experiences and knowledge of relationships around me that I always feel that we must be inhabiting different planets. I think it is partly, glass half full vs half empty and partly that we attract and are attracted to quite different sorts of women. As you, @User#8628 , know quite well, I interact with a fairly steady stream of new young women, and I would have to think a while to even remember the last time I was treated badly by a woman in a way that I would describe as evil or objectionably manipulative.

-Ww

Bro, if you are PAYING women to have sex and act nice to you, of course it's a different perspective. If I was paying a woman, I would definitely expect her to be very "nice". Customer service.

Not to mention the perspective of "defending" your provider. And as also mentioned, we should not be surprised that people have different views.

 

[Sudsy]

Bro, if you are PAYING women to have sex and act nice to you, of course it's a different perspective.

If I may interject, it would seem that you're assuming that all of the young women Ww meets are paid companions, and none as a result of simple social interactions.

 

[Solong]

If I may interject, it would seem that you're assuming that all of the young women Ww meets are paid companions, and none as a result of simple social interactions.

He has stated the women he has are usually bought or paid sugar-babies, and that he doesn't use social circles for finding women, but focusing on and pursuing his hobby. What that hobby/social interaction is (here?), where he is meeting so many young women and not paying, would be interesting.

If he would like to change that now, to he approaches or picks them up directly or dates conventionally, I'm sure he can say so himself.

 

[Wwanderer]

If I may interject, it would seem that you're assuming that all of the young women Ww meets are paid companions, and none as a result of simple social interactions.

Indeed, and I have tried to correct this odd misconception many many times in previous TAG threads. There is the patronizing, at best and arguably insulting, presumption that a lot of experience with p4p implies

1 - little or no experience with np4p relationships

and/or

2 - not enough insight or cleverness to distinguish one's p4p from np4p exxperiences.

But as I have also mentioned many times in previous threads, I have had far more np4p intimate relationships in my life than the large majority of men (as far as I can tell). Moreover they have been of pretty much every type you could name, from marriage (just one so far) to decades long deep romantic relationships to ONSs to FWB situations to short term crush/lust-driven ones to swinging partners to affairs with married women to connections with much younger/older women to strangely kinky ones to emotionally intimate but platonic connections to the "free sex" play of the clasical hippie days... I am less happy to say that I have badly hurt and been badly hurt by women with whom I have or had relatinships (hurt in the emotional sense, not physical). Basically I've experienced women in as many ways I could and have had (my consistently amazingly) good luck at it. I've been around the block so many times that I've worn a groove in the sidewalk.

To be fair to @Solong , while he makes such comments particularly often on TAG, it is a pattern with a lot of guys to assume that anyone who does much p4p must be "a loser" in some macho sense who has little or no access to women except p4p. For some reason this (inaccurate) view appears to be particularly prevelant among PUA types.

I don't know why; maybe it just eases their jealousy a little! <<== joke

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

He has stated the women he has are usually bought or paid sugar-babies, and that he doesn't use social circles for finding women, but focusing on and pursuing his hobby. What that hobby/social interaction is (here?), where he is meeting so many young women and not paying, would be interesting.

Hmmm...another evidence of parallel universes, or more likely, somewhat inaccurate recollections of my posts in a couple of ways. If you check, I believe you will find that:

I have said that most of my p4p activities in recent years have been sugar dating, where the caveats in bold are key/important ones. This is my main recent access to young women.

Over most of my adult life, my p4p activities have been via sex workers of many different types working in many different styles and and venues of commercial sex and located in many different countries around the world. I was a "hard core road warrior monger" for decades.

My np4p has tended to be with women closer to my own age (unsurprising surely) throughout my life; they were young when I was and aren't so much now...though they still tend to be significantly younger than me. I am currently (within the last year, say) having np4p connections with women in their 40s, 50s and 60s. By comparison, my recent (last 12 months) np4p (sugar) relationships have been with women in their 30s, 20s and late teens.

Finally, when I say something general about women or relationships or p4p or np4p in our discussions here, I am drawing on my experiences throughout my life, not just what has happened to me recently...although of course one is often most influenced by recent history. I'm so old I can't even remember much about all of the great things that I did back "in the day"!

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Bro, if you are PAYING women to have sex and act nice to you, of course it's a different perspective. If I was paying a woman, I would definitely expect her to be very "nice". Customer service.

Well, yes but also and mostly NO!

P4p providers certainly routinely provide their customers with faux affection, sweetness, lust, interest, attention, enthusiasm, orgasms and so forth. Indeed the "performance" (in an acting sense) involved is part of what the customer is buying from her in many cases. It is a large part of what GFE means to many on both sides of the transactions.

However and as surely everyone who reads reviews and "horror stories" on TAG and all similar boards knows, a significant number of sex workers routinely deceive (fake or altered photos for starters), intentionally manipulate, scam/trick and occasionally literally steal (as in grab the money and run with it) from their customers. Threats of violence and even actualy violence directed at mongers are also fairly common in some places in the world.

So while most sex workers and most women in general are quite good and honest people (in my experience), it seems odd to say that you "expect" sex workers to be nice (compared to np4p women I guess you mean). Surely the reverse is true *on average* when you consider all the above.

Not to mention the perspective of "defending" your provider.

???

And as also mentioned, we should not be surprised that people have different views.

It is not the difference in views that surprises me; it is the difference in reported experience...but *maybe* it is similar experience seen through the filter of different perspecitves...seems like more than that to me though, when I read a lot of your posts.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

Club rats tend to lie about their purpose and lie about casual sex, pretending to be "misunderstood good girls" or even victims, when instead she's often the villain and causing the drama. Often the guys have no idea about how she truly is and what she's doing, because she isn't honest.

It's not "twisted" to be realistic about commonly known female behavior, and for men to be mindful of it. In this way, it's more likely that fair and equally satisfying relationships come about.

I used to think women were evil and manipulative. And, at times they can be. But by and large I don't interpret their actions in a negative way. I see women in their sexual prime as highly simulated, almost comically so, such that their reality is pretty wildly different from the average dude. They are like butterflies in a field of beautiful flowers, and flutter around from one to the next without much accountability to any particular one. But, I don't really think that's negative or evil - it's just how they are. I think if I thought poorly of a girl every time she ignored me or didn't show up to a date or something we had planned, I would probably go crazy and get into a really dark headspace.

Anyway, I don't think we should envy the woman in her sexual prime - they get a crazy amount of attention but it comes crashing down on them HARD in their thirties. Notably, they become "better people" which really just means they become more accountable for their actions to strangers. If hot girls were accountable to every guy who wants something from them, they'd never get anywhere and be totally incapacitated in life. I see their behavior largely as a logical adaptation to the incredible demand they find themselves in - something you or I would also do if we we're in their position. And I don't really think most of them have malevolence or deception in their hearts.

But as men we have the nice perk that our sexual prime comes much later and lasts longer. Additionally, we can improve our attractiveness greatly over time with a little effort. Women have to rely on physical boosts - makeup or surgery or nice clothes. Men get points for being witty or good conversationalists (women too, but much much less by comparison)

Anyway I think the difference is that when you talk about BEHAVIOR I generally agree with you. But when you talk about attributions of their mental processes, or motives, I don't usually see it as negatively as you seem to

 

[Wwanderer]

I used to think women were evil and manipulative. And, at times they can be. But by and large I don't interpret their actions in a negative way. ...

An exceptionally insightful post. Thanks.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

I used to think women were evil and manipulative. And, at times they can be. But by and large I don't interpret their actions in a negative way. I see women in their sexual prime as highly simulated, almost comically so, such that their reality is pretty wildly different from the average dude. They are like butterflies in a field of beautiful flowers, and flutter around from one to the next without much accountability to any particular one. But, I don't really think that's negative or evil - it's just how they are. I think if I thought poorly of a girl every time she ignored me or didn't show up to a date or something we had planned, I would probably go crazy and get into a really dark headspace.

Anyway, I don't think we should envy the woman in her sexual prime - they get a crazy amount of attention but it comes crashing down on them HARD in their thirties. Notably, they become "better people" which really just means they become more accountable for their actions to strangers. If hot girls were accountable to every guy who wants something from them, they'd never get anywhere and be totally incapacitated in life. I see their behavior largely as a logical adaptation to the incredible demand they find themselves in - something you or I would also do if we we're in their position. And I don't really think most of them have malevolence or deception in their hearts.

But as men we have the nice perk that our sexual prime comes much later and lasts longer. Additionally, we can improve our attractiveness greatly over time with a little effort. Women have to rely on physical boosts - makeup or surgery or nice clothes. Men get points for being witty or good conversationalists (women too, but much much less by comparison)

Seems like if you comment on a type of woman or about the actions of certain types of women, this somehow gets misconstrued as commentary on all women being X. I hope this isn't the case, but appears so.

If I talk about a dirty homeless woman who attempted to steal my backpack, it doesn't mean I think all women are thieves, are dirty and homeless, or hate the homeless or women in general.

Nor do I think all women are club rats. Hell, lots of women don't even like clubs and unfortunately can't or are afraid to dance.

I'm pretty sure that's not your thought pattern Sinapse, but wanted to clarify that, because of some other posts by others.

I do think there are certain patterns of behavior exhibited within groups and certain types of people (not confined to any particular race, nationality, or sex) that exhibit certain behaviors more strongly. Consequently, it's fair to be aware and mindful of such.

If a person is a thief, and based on their history, there is nothing wrong with calling that out nor talking about how to protect yourself from theft.

 

[NormalGuy]

But surely, when you think to yourself "oh no, here comes another rant about had bad Japanese women are" then you are not calling out the thief, you are labeling the whole Japanese female population as thieves.

 

[Solong]

But surely, when you think to yourself "oh no, here comes another rant about had bad Japanese women are" then you are not calling out the thief, you are labeling the whole Japanese female population as thieves.

If you are referring to me, I want you to find a post of mine where I referred to ALL Japanese as X or as bad. Go find and link it, otherwise just hot air.

I have repeatedly stated that I don't think of all Japanese as X. It appears that if you talk about cultural differences and clearly they exist, some misconstrue it as talking about an entire nationality or race. If for example you talk about women who are thieves, somehow that's referring to ALL women on the planet as thieves. I would like to think that people can make the distinction between the two.

And in many cases, people who are debating me have framed what I said as X or about all Japanese or women, for the purpose of deception and misdirection. Various forms of red herrings.

Instead of debating the point that was brought up or to purposely avoid it, they instead attack the poster (ad hominem) or misrepresent their argument (straw man).

Example 1

Mr. X: "You should be wary of women who are pickpockets. Protect your wallet."

Ms. Y: "You are always saying women are bad and thieves. You hate women."

Mr. X: "WTF? I'm talking about pickpockets."

Ms. Y: "Not all women are bad. And stopping hating women."

Mr. X: "WTF!!! Didn't say all women are bad or that I hate women. And was talking about women who are pickpockets, NOT all women."

Example 2

Mr.X: "In my experiences on Guam, met a lot of Chamorro that eat fish."

Mr.Y: "You are racist against Chamorro and Guam."

Mr. X: "WTF? Just pointing out a cultural difference about the diet based on my experience."

Mr. Y: "Not all Chamorro are bad. You should never come to Guam."

Mr. X: "WTF!!! Didn't say all Chamorro or Guam is bad. Talking about my observation and type of food being eaten there."

 

[NormalGuy]

Do you get paid every time someone searches for Straw Man on the Internet, as you seem to quote it every time someone comments on your posting style.

All I stated was that in my opinion, every time I read one of your posts related to women, you always seem to prefix the noun with "Japanese" as if you are inferring that Japanese women have bad traits that are only applicable to them because they are Japanese.

Person A: wow, I think that woman over there just farted
Person B: you should smell Japanese women's farts, they stink and I swear they do it on purpose when you are near them.

It's not saying all Japanese women have smelly farts, it's not implying that Japanese have the smelliest farts in the world, but it certainly conveys your negativity about them

And I do like your posts generally, and you seem intelligent and knowledgeable about your lifestyle but as I stated, you come across really negative about Japanese women generally, despite enjoying their company more than most.

And no, I'm not quoting posts as I'm on my phone, but if you still think there is no basis for this I'll update at some point over the weekend.

 

[Sinapse]

A club rat, is often very much trying to cheat, trick, and scam guys. Often her point is to get over on or is being abusive towards guys. She is pulling and trapping them by using sex or acting sexy as a lure.

Club rats tend to lie about their purpose and lie about casual sex, pretending to be "misunderstood good girls" or even victims, when instead she's often the villain and causing the drama. Often the guys have no idea about how she truly is and what she's doing, because she isn't honest.

The key here is when such women enter the relationships with men, he does NOT realize: that she views him as disposable, temporary, has no loyalty, or she plans to dump him whenever she thinks someone better has come along.

Seems like if you comment on a type of woman or about the actions of certain types of women, this somehow gets misconstrued as commentary on all women being X. I hope this isn't the case, but appears so.

If I talk about a dirty homeless woman who attempted to steal my backpack, it doesn't mean I think all women are thieves, are dirty and homeless, or hate the homeless or women in general.

Nor do I think all women are club rats. Hell, lots of women don't even like clubs and unfortunately can't or are afraid to dance.

I'm pretty sure that's not your thought pattern Sinapse, but wanted to clarify that, because of some other posts by others.

I do think there are certain patterns of behavior exhibited within groups and certain types of people (not confined to any particular race, nationality, or sex) that exhibit certain behaviors more strongly. Consequently, it's fair to be aware and mindful of such.

If a person is a thief, and based on their history, there is nothing wrong with calling that out nor talking about how to protect yourself from theft.

My point was not that you are talking about all women - I see very clearly that you are not. My point was that you are attributing malevolence to their actions when all you know is their behavior. IMO it is best to think positively of women and assume they are doing what they think is best (which I think for the most part is true - granted, there are bad people out there of every gender) and I'll explain

For example:

Case 1: Girl is in club dancing sexily with many different men, different nights

Case 1, interpretation 1: The girl is a "club rat" who is trying to deceive or manipulate men and use her sexiness for evil
Action -> slowly gain resentment for club regulars

Case 1, interpretation 2: The girl likes dancing and might go home with guys or might not, but what does it have to do with you? Even if she drops them like a hot sack of potatoes after a one night stand, how is it different from how guys act? Why does she owe anybody anything?
Action -> Water off a ducks' back. Either she comes with you or not, either way you don't really mind that much.

Case 2: Girl arranges a date with you, agrees on a time and place etc, then never messages you and blocks you

Case 2, interpretation 1: The girl is a horrible person, a time-waster, and childish about sex
Action -> Growing resentment towards scheduling dates and women who "flake"

Case 2, interpretation 2: The girl either actually planned on coming and was excited to meet you when she agreed to the date. When the time came around her mood had changed or something came up and she decided not to go / or legitimately forgot.
Action -> Perhaps more reminders or focus on text game, and beyond that, again, water off a ducks' back.

Case 3, interpretation 3: The girl didn't want to come on the date with you, but agreed because you were being persistent and she didn't want to break the "wa". She didn't plan on coming unless the date with Kotaro who she's been looking forward to for two weeks fell through, then maybe if her cat wasn't doing anything interesting that day, she'd come see you for dinner and possibly some sex.
Action -> So she doesn't like you that much. Are you man enough to accept that? She still might bang you if she's bored enough! Can't win 'em all. Water off a ducks' back.

My point is that though the behavior (what we can see) is the same, we will probably never really know the specific interpretation/reality. Given that we don't know what is actually going on in her head, it actually hurts us to think of people as malevolent, and I don't think it's true either. I generally choose to believe (whether true or not is a different matter, but I tend to think it IS true or at least true-r than the first interpretation) in the second/third interpretations I've provided (or even one more forgiving). I find it is both more helpful for my sanity, my ability to not be affected by negative responses/outcomes, AND my actual ability to sleep with the women in question to think the best of them. If you assume they are negative and convey that assumption to them - either verbally or subconsciously - either:

A. you're correct, they know you're correct and they don't proceed with you.
B. you're incorrect, they are upset you're incorrect, and they don't proceed with you.

If you assume they are not malevolent either
A. You're incorrect, and perhaps they live up to their malevolent nature, OR perhaps they decide to live up to how you see them - positively. They aren't negative to everybody all the time, and might enjoy the ability to live up to a different image, OR the image might be created to ward off unwanted suitors in an overstimulated / oversaturated environment like a night club. They might appreciate that positivity and go home with you. If not, it doesn't affect you.
B. You're correct, and they aren't malevolent, and they are happy that you didn't misinterpret their motives for no real reason, and again they might be more inclined to meet you more/go home with you. If not, it doesn't affect you.

In short the reasons to interpret a girls' behavior as trivial at worst and probably well-adapted or useful for her are both better for your own sake AND better in a purely Machiavellian get-in-her-pants kind of way (not to mention, more accurate IMO)

Sometimes you just have to roll your eyes and laugh at the frivolous nature of young, attractive women . But I try to never get mad or interpret it negatively unless they do something REALLY egregious that I personally witness.

Tl;dr interpret girls' actions positively or at least neutrally but that doesn't mean you have to be a pushover

 

[Kendo]

How did this thread get so off topic...

Night trying to meet women, not what you guys think of women.

 

[Solong]

My point was not that you are talking about all women - I see very clearly that you are not. My point was that you are attributing malevolence to their actions when all you know is their behavior. IMO it is best to think positively of women and assume they are doing what they think is best (which I think for the most part is true - granted, there are bad people out there of every gender) and I'll explain

For example:

Case 1: Girl is in club dancing sexily with many different men, different nights

Case 1, interpretation 1: The girl is a "club rat" who is trying to deceive or manipulate men and use her sexiness for evil
Action -> slowly gain resentment for club regulars

Case 1, interpretation 2: The girl likes dancing and might go home with guys or might not, but what does it have to do with you? Even if she drops them like a hot sack of potatoes after a one night stand, how is it different from how guys act? Why does she owe anybody anything?
Action -> Water off a ducks' back. Either she comes with you or not, either way you don't really mind that much.

Case 2: Girl arranges a date with you, agrees on a time and place etc, then never messages you and blocks you

Case 2, interpretation 1: The girl is a horrible person, a time-waster, and childish about sex
Action -> Growing resentment towards scheduling dates and women who "flake"

Case 2, interpretation 2: The girl either actually planned on coming and was excited to meet you when she agreed to the date. When the time came around her mood had changed or something came up and she decided not to go / or legitimately forgot.
Action -> Perhaps more reminders or focus on text game, and beyond that, again, water off a ducks' back.

Case 3, interpretation 3: The girl didn't want to come on the date with you, but agreed because you were being persistent and she didn't want to break the "wa". She didn't plan on coming unless the date with Kotaro who she's been looking forward to for two weeks fell through, then maybe if her cat wasn't doing anything interesting that day, she'd come see you for dinner and possibly some sex.
Action -> So she doesn't like you that much. Are you man enough to accept that? She still might bang you if she's bored enough! Can't win 'em all. Water off a ducks' back.

My point is that though the behavior (what we can see) is the same, we will probably never really know the specific interpretation/reality. Given that we don't know what is actually going on in her head, it actually hurts us to think of people as malevolent, and I don't think it's true either. I generally choose to believe (whether true or not is a different matter, but I tend to think it IS true or at least true-r than the first interpretation) in the second/third interpretations I've provided (or even one more forgiving).

I strongly disagree, because I'm NOT assuming the behavior of all women is automatically malevolent. I'm referring to the behaviors of a type of woman. It's like if I was talking about a pickpocket. I'm talking about the characteristics of a pickpocket, not an entire sex, race, nationality.

And I'm talking about a type of woman where in many cases my friends or I have interacted extensively or repeatedly with the same such women. Including talking with such women in depth, dating, or direct experience. Therefore this isn't mere assumption of possible intention or attributing malevolence based on minimum evidence or quick observation, but well-founded opinion based on significant evidence for a particular type.

Your Example:

Case 1: Girl is in club dancing sexily with many different men, different nights

Case 1, interpretation 1: The girl is a "club rat" who is trying to deceive or manipulate men and use her sexiness for evil
Action -> slowly gain resentment for club regulars

Case 1, interpretation 2: The girl likes dancing and might go home with guys or might not, but what does it have to do with you?

Here, it appears that you are assuming a quick judgment was made based on merely looking at the woman from a distance and assuming something negative.

The label "club rat" isn't given to women you don't know and who just happen to come to a club or bar occasionally. It's given to such women who are well known to frequent the establishment. Where bartenders, staff, club security, other club members, friends of yours, or yourself know them or know of them. It's a label identifying a type, not an assumption that all women in the club fit this label. Like the label pickpocket or thief, it's based on a set of attributes and behaviors.

And, to clarify this even more, I worked for a time as club security in Yokohama, Roppongi, and various other areas. It's like a cop that has experience in the matter of dealing with and identifying pickpockets. There comes a point where you have observed and know of the behavior.

The problem that I have with your objection, is it's like saying we can never identify or call anybody a thief, pickpocket, or criminal. We can never be sure what they were thinking or their true intention. I disagree in the context that we can and do make judgements about behaviors.

I agree with giving people the benefit of the doubt, but there is a point where reasonable people will stop and make judgements about behaviors and actions.

I find it is both more helpful for my sanity, my ability to not be affected by negative responses/outcomes, AND my actual ability to sleep with the women in question to think the best of them. If you assume they are negative and convey that assumption to them - either verbally or subconsciously - either:

A. you're correct, they know you're correct and they don't proceed with you.
B. you're incorrect, they are upset you're incorrect, and they don't proceed with you.

If you assume they are not malevolent either
A. You're incorrect, and perhaps they live up to their malevolent nature, OR perhaps they decide to live up to how you see them - positively. They aren't negative to everybody all the time, and might enjoy the ability to live up to a different image, OR the image might be created to ward off unwanted suitors in an overstimulated / oversaturated environment like a night club. They might appreciate that positivity and go home with you. If not, it doesn't affect you.
B. You're correct, and they aren't malevolent, and they are happy that you didn't misinterpret their motives for no real reason, and again they might be more inclined to meet you more/go home with you. If not, it doesn't affect you.

In short the reasons to interpret a girls' behavior as trivial at worst and probably well-adapted or useful for her are both better for your own sake AND better in a purely Machiavellian get-in-her-pants kind of way (not to mention, more accurate IMO)

Sometimes you just have to roll your eyes and laugh at the frivolous nature of young, attractive women . But I try to never get mad or interpret it negatively unless they do something REALLY egregious that I personally witness.

Tl;dr interpret girls' actions positively or at least neutrally but that doesn't mean you have to be a pushover

Negativity During Pick-Up

In my approach, in terms of pick-up, I attempt to make ZERO assumptions of any woman that I don't know. Neither positive or negative. I'm more in a, "Where can this interaction lead?" type of inquisitive and curious mode.

Therefore my behavior and the 3rd party perception of me (as told by pals watching me) is often a person greatly enjoying learning about something new. The new woman is a bit like an unknown Christmas present wrapped in a box, and I'm quite excited to see what's inside. In this mode of behavior, there is no negativity.

In fact, I believe making POSITIVE assumptions is as bad as making negative ones. This can lead a guy into thinking there is more between them than actually exists.

I attempt to read or interpret comments, facial expressions, body language, or any indicators that she is giving off. It is what she says or does, that I attempt to analyze. I then compare it to what I know to be successful in the past or other things she is saying or doing.

A possible difference in our perspectives is I don't have to think positively or assume the best about a woman to sleep with her. For me, it's rather we have mutual goals, interests, or curiosity.

In live interactions, I can ignore negativity or outrageous behavior from women, to not get sidetracked or knocked off my objective. Here, we appear equivalent, where we implement a high level of emotional and anger control.

 

[just4fun]

1). May be limited but i'm just telling about my personal experience and it seems to match with the general opinion about this place.

2). That is not really the point. I just wanna point out some general details about him. And i have never again been treated by a Japanese like that so i wouldn't say his behavior was very Japanese, i don't know if it had anything to do with culture at all, just very childish mentality.

3). I did try to set him up with the petite older woman (about the only one in the club who seemed interested in socializing with us). At first i took my "duty" serious, but we were all out for a fun night. The "wingman" thing was more of a joke between us all. I honestly dont see why we should have spend the whole evening on looking for a hook up for him. So yeah, i'm not a "good wingman" after all. Yeez, its not my job. XD
4). You are a swinger yourself. So what is bad if a girl actually doesn't WANT to keep one guy interested in her but wants to enjoy sex with a large number of guys and uses her favorite club as a place to meet them?
5). You are thinking way too much into things. Women aren't all that evil and manipulative and if they are it only balances out with the advantages that men already have. Plus some people just break up with their exes because they meet someone better, and by better i mean better character, not job.
Personally i enjoy casual sex but in relationships i don't hop from one guy to the other. Your view of women is quite twisted..

I would like to like part 5 a bunch if times......(now there's something that the board needs......(and a dislike button would be fun too))

 

[just4fun]

When do some of these PUA guys find time to score when they're on here writing sonnets.

 

[Solong]

When do some of these PUA guys find time to score when they're on here writing sonnets.

I'm sorry if some of us read and type more quickly, and/or use mobile phones.

 

[Sinapse]

In my approach, in terms of pick-up, I attempt to make ZERO assumptions of any woman that I don't know. Neither positive or negative. I'm more in a, "Where can this interaction lead?" type of inquisitive and curious mode.

As do I. I evaluate solely based on what they provide me. I was talking about your assumptions about their motives and the good/evilness of it. You seem to read a LOT into girls' behavior that is negative and mention (not just here but in other posts) that women are manipulative, evil etc etc.

A possible difference in our perspectives is I don't have to think positively or assume the best about a woman to sleep with her. For me, it's rather we have mutual goals, interests, or curiosity.

That's not what I meant by assume positively. I meant if there's a situation where you might be tempted to think she's evil or a bitch (like, flaking on you, or sleeping with guys other than you) just assume that there's probably a decent reason, or even if there's not, you assuming bad things about her says more about YOU than about her.

I strongly disagree, because I'm NOT assuming the behavior of all women is automatically malevolent. I'm referring to the behaviors of a type of woman. It's like if I was talking about a pickpocket.

Pickpockets have a specific behavior: stealing from people's pockets. You know someone is a pickpocket very clearly after one theft. What specific behavior do you see that leads you to call women a club rat? After how long do you call them a club rat? For myself, I don't really watch women from afar for their behavior or go to venues and meet the same women on multiple nights over and over, so I don't get to the point where I consider them a club rat. If I go to a club to meet women, there's no point in thinking of them as a "club rat" because I have only seen them once. If they bang me, who cares if they are a "club rat" anyway? I wrap up.. The possible only situation I'd get close to knowing if she is a "club rat" is if she always invited me out, or on LINE timeline if I see she's always taking selfies in a club and posting them up - but even then I'd just think "Oh she likes clubs." Would I go out of my way to date her? Perhaps not, but I still wouldn't call her names.

The label "club rat" isn't given to women you don't know and who just happen to come to a club or bar occasionally. It's given to such women who are well known to frequent the establishment. Where bartenders, staff, club security, other club members, friends of yours, or yourself know them or know of them. It's a label identifying a type, not an assumption that all women in the club fit this label. Like the label pickpocket or thief, it's based on a set of attributes and behaviors.

Just going to a club often is enough to be considered a club rat? And this is somehow a bad thing? I just don't really see it negatively that much.. let them play around if they like.

 

[Anna Summer]

While reading those posts I really get the feeling that women who go to clubs either for just dancing, having fun or pick up guys are considered club rats or called out on their behavior. I also used to go to clubs rather often (sometimes the same if I like the people hanging out there or the music or whatever... Does this make me a club rat??)
If a guy does all those things it's considered great and nobody complaints. But dare you to be a woman who likes clubbing and being open about one night stands.

 

[Solong]

As do I. I evaluate solely based on what they provide me. I was talking about your assumptions about their motives and the good/evilness of it. You seem to read a LOT into girls' behavior that is negative and mention (not just here but in other posts) that women are manipulative, evil etc etc.

I don't make assumptions about the "good" or "evil" of motives. You are injecting things on your own that wasn't stated. And I argue appear to be based on characterizations of what I said, by those that have reasons to obfuscate what was stated to mischaracterize PUA or my position specifically. Neither of us should be falling into that trap.

And I will explicitly state it again, that I don't talk about all women doing X of anything, nor do I think all women are or their motives are always manipulative or evil. Don't take smear jobs by posters opposed to men talking to women without paying, and running with that as if it was a legitimate or honest argument.

That's not what I meant by assume positively. I meant if there's a situation where you might be tempted to think she's evil or a bitch (like, flaking on you, or sleeping with guys other than you) just assume that there's probably a decent reason, or even if there's not, you assuming bad things about her says more about YOU than about her.

Are you not seeing where might possibly be making assumptions too ? Let us not accuse others of making assumptions, when that's what we might be doing ourselves.

Instead of assumptions, I rather address the actual behavior and whether or not it's appropriate or respectful. I'm concerned not just with motive, intent, or belief but the actual action or behavior.

I don't think of a woman as evil, simply because she flakes and NOWHERE have I EVER stated such here. "Bitch" or "asshole" can be a result of someone doing you wrong and a response to it. Nowhere have I stated that a woman is automatically a bitch for flaking, but I would find it understandable if a person (man OR woman) were upset by a person that BROKE their promise and waited until the last second to cancel a date or meeting.

And on this point, I hope you don't want to excuse bad behavior by women, simply because they are women or have a vagina. I see women as being EQUALLY accountable for their behavior or actions as men. A guy who cancels a meeting at the last second with the most lame of excuses, is just as much a jackass as any woman doing it and is equally as likely to anger any number of people with such behavior.

I will not "assume" any decent reason or excuse for flaking, cheating, or disloyalty. Rather I will judge the behavior on it's own merit, and it if it's fair, respectful, or appropriate. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If a person pulls a jackass move (action or behavior), I'm not going to be afraid to call a spade, a spade.

Pickpockets have a specific behavior: stealing from people's pockets. You know someone is a pickpocket very clearly after one theft. What specific behavior do you see that leads you to call women a club rat? After how long do you call them a club rat? For myself, I don't really watch women from afar for their behavior or go to venues and meet the same women on multiple nights over and over, so I don't get to the point where I consider them a club rat. If I go to a club to meet women, there's no point in thinking of them as a "club rat" because I have only seen them once. If they bang me, who cares if they are a "club rat" anyway? I wrap up.. The possible only situation I'd get close to knowing if she is a "club rat" is if she always invited me out, or on LINE timeline if I see she's always taking selfies in a club and posting them up - but even then I'd just think "Oh she likes clubs." Would I go out of my way to date her? Perhaps not, but I still wouldn't call her names.

Women get the label of club rat, because they are observed and as I have mentioned, by: staff, bartenders, club security, and others... They are known to be in the same place, running through mutiples guys, and doing guys wrong. Cheating, lying about their name or attempting to lie about who they are in general, lying about multiple boyfriends, giving guys STDs, all kinds of epic relationship drama, fighting in the club or with guys, possible police drama, known trouble... Almost any club security or bartender can tell you about such.

Just going to a club often is enough to be considered a club rat? And this is somehow a bad thing? I just don't really see it negatively that much.. let them play around if they like.

Let's be clear on understanding what a club rat is, versus possibly confusing it with slut or a derogatory label for all women. I described what a club rat is above, and it's NOT an arbitrary label assigned to any woman, but a specific label assigned to a type of woman based on an established pattern of negative behavior and trouble making over a period of time. In that context, it's like a pickpocket or thief. A person can get that label, because of their pattern of behavior.

If a woman (or man) comes to a club sometimes and picks up for sex, that is completely not what I was referring to nor do I think anything wrong with that.