Marriage, a bad idea
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One last thing, ok. Probably the best advice I gave above for you is 'show don't tell'. Show her that she is a beautiful, sexy woman that you care about and want to have in your bed and maybe she will come around. You have talked. Talk is fail. Talk doesn't work. I know. My wife and I just gave up on trying to work things out that way. Sure, that's supposed to be bad, but when you are like you and I (once was) and want intimacy with someone, it's not about talking to them, it's about showing them. You are the catalyst to the fire that leads to a sex filled marriage or a divorce that is on your terms or any shade of gray you like. This may not make a lot of sense, but you have control here. You can choose to be me and wait it out until you have things together enough to make a real, informed, choice. It's not happier, but it’s better than nothing. You can also choose to get her back in line with what you need. That might not really happen, but at least you tried. However, if you do get divorced, never marry again. I wouldn't have married my wife knowing what I know now. I made a mistake. I didn't know what I wanted and I wasn't cold in my evaluation. Love is not enough. Love is just a feeling. If you don't have the right woman for your needs and hers then it really doesn't work, which is why a lot of relationships don't really work out past marriage.
Take this how you will. This is my way. This can be your way. I'm jaded. I love my wife, but we don't work. I've given up. Will you?
Thanks for listening. Writing this out and rereading this, I feel a bit better. Maybe we both need this.
Take this how you will. This is my way. This can be your way. I'm jaded. I love my wife, but we don't work. I've given up. Will you?
Thanks for listening. Writing this out and rereading this, I feel a bit better. Maybe we both need this.
Dear Mods,
I know, I know: Heavy profanity, not the appriopriate place, huge mass positing on first post. I'm really sorry about all of the above. You can delete this and I will understand. This forum is probably not the right place to put our issues out like this, but I needed an adult orientated, probably married too, Japan audience and when I saw BilbOket's post, I saw me. He and I are probably not alone - by a long shot. The advice is, honestly, what it is: A way to help and reach out and a way to say it's not just you and it never will be. Maybe you can send him this and then kill my posting? I understand. If one man who is hurting like we are hurting sees this before you delete it and thinks 'I can do that' then I have made a ripple in the world. I need that ripple just as much as they do. All of us men and women who deal with this pain, whether in Japan or without, need just a hint of relief.
Finally, feel free to combine, chop it down, cut it up, hash out every single time I say fuck, shit, or mother fucker. It's stronger and expresses my ache better with it, but I say some things that are meant to burn. Heart burn creates action and saying it the way I did is the only way I could for me to be honest to the hurt that a sexless marriage creates.
Thanks for listening. I'm just another guy who talks. Hopefully, a few people listened.
I know, I know: Heavy profanity, not the appriopriate place, huge mass positing on first post. I'm really sorry about all of the above. You can delete this and I will understand. This forum is probably not the right place to put our issues out like this, but I needed an adult orientated, probably married too, Japan audience and when I saw BilbOket's post, I saw me. He and I are probably not alone - by a long shot. The advice is, honestly, what it is: A way to help and reach out and a way to say it's not just you and it never will be. Maybe you can send him this and then kill my posting? I understand. If one man who is hurting like we are hurting sees this before you delete it and thinks 'I can do that' then I have made a ripple in the world. I need that ripple just as much as they do. All of us men and women who deal with this pain, whether in Japan or without, need just a hint of relief.
Finally, feel free to combine, chop it down, cut it up, hash out every single time I say fuck, shit, or mother fucker. It's stronger and expresses my ache better with it, but I say some things that are meant to burn. Heart burn creates action and saying it the way I did is the only way I could for me to be honest to the hurt that a sexless marriage creates.
Thanks for listening. I'm just another guy who talks. Hopefully, a few people listened.
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astrako
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Dear Justanotherguywhotalks,
congratulations for writing this full post. I read it entirely, and i will read again other day for sure. this information help many married guys suffering that, and it also help single man like me to realize what you could find if you decide to married a japanese lady. I am very sorry for your situation, and the hell you are living. Honestly i hope you guys living such unhappy marriages find a new happy life. Life is too short as to spend years being unhappy, please try to find happiness, because happiness exists, and if it should eb with other woman, go ahead. the excuse of having children to do not divorce uses to be a tipycal mistake a many couples: children are more happy having two happy parents (living separated) than having two parents that they hate each other (inside their home). thanks again for your nice post and please feel free to make more comments (also in other threads).
congratulations for writing this full post. I read it entirely, and i will read again other day for sure. this information help many married guys suffering that, and it also help single man like me to realize what you could find if you decide to married a japanese lady. I am very sorry for your situation, and the hell you are living. Honestly i hope you guys living such unhappy marriages find a new happy life. Life is too short as to spend years being unhappy, please try to find happiness, because happiness exists, and if it should eb with other woman, go ahead. the excuse of having children to do not divorce uses to be a tipycal mistake a many couples: children are more happy having two happy parents (living separated) than having two parents that they hate each other (inside their home). thanks again for your nice post and please feel free to make more comments (also in other threads).
fireman
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Unfortunately, they don't have joint custody in Japan, and visitation rights, if given at all, are usually something like an hour a month at a lawyer's office somewhere. So the choice comes down to effectively having one parent versus having two parents that hate each other, a much tougher call.
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Japanese immaturity, at its best.
As much as I hate saying it, there are just too many Japanese women I have met that are all about the money. Some of them really have a lack of self-worth or pride. (pride in taking someone's money, maybe)
fireman
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Actually, if you are all about the money, the US is better because an ex-spouse can have their wages garnished or be thrown in jail for not paying child support. This is not the case in Japan, where child support is very easily dodged so long as you aren't trying to sell real estate (in which case there might be a lien put in place).
Japanese immaturity, at its best.
As much as I hate saying it, there are just too many Japanese women I have met that are all about the money. Some of them really have a lack of self-worth or pride. (pride in taking someone's money, maybe)
astrako
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i am not racist. I love japanese people, they are aweome. But i have to say, that after reading too many post, reviews, etc. similar to this thread, i have crystal clear that i will never get marriage with a japanese lady. Its smart to learn about bad experiences of others, to avoid suffering the same. I would consider japanese girlfriends/lovers all as i can get of course, but in order to build family i think is better that japanese women get marriage with japanese men. They fit because their expectations fit, but gaijins got frustrated, i dont want that life. I have to say that i have felt nice feelings about some japanese ladies, but that is like when you are very hungry: you just eat without thinking if the food you are eating (and it looks great for you now) it would be healthy for you in the future. I dont want the mother of my children looks me as furniture or ATM machine-only (and that seems the situation if you get marriage with a japanese lady).
Almost all of the western men that married a Japanese that I know have divorced or want to divorce. The only one that didn't had no issues with no sex and Japanese food all the time.
You're in a difficult spot like I was married to a Japanese with a small child. If you want to see you're child, stay married or at least that is the threat.
You can try talking to her. I did. You can try going to counseling, I did. But in the end I doubt any of it will sink in, until you walk out the door and then she won't change because it would be losing face.
As for another posters suggestion of finding a mistress. Keep in mind it will only be tolerated if they don't know and they will try to find out, just so your wife can use it as an emotional club.
IMO you have to decide if you can live apart from your children. If so, lay it on the line for her. Provide XYZ or you're filing for divorce.
Personally if I had it to do all over again, I would never marry a Japanese. Thai - yes, Philippino probably, but never Japanese. There is a reason why Japan has the lowest birth rate in the world and it's not from safe sex.
Good luck!
You're in a difficult spot like I was married to a Japanese with a small child. If you want to see you're child, stay married or at least that is the threat.
You can try talking to her. I did. You can try going to counseling, I did. But in the end I doubt any of it will sink in, until you walk out the door and then she won't change because it would be losing face.
As for another posters suggestion of finding a mistress. Keep in mind it will only be tolerated if they don't know and they will try to find out, just so your wife can use it as an emotional club.
IMO you have to decide if you can live apart from your children. If so, lay it on the line for her. Provide XYZ or you're filing for divorce.
Personally if I had it to do all over again, I would never marry a Japanese. Thai - yes, Philippino probably, but never Japanese. There is a reason why Japan has the lowest birth rate in the world and it's not from safe sex.
Good luck!
I wish I could offer you some positive advice, but my marriage to a Japanese woman last almost exactly 5 years. It didn't end bitter, and truth be told we still loved each other, but we were wanting two very different things from our marriage, and that is what ended it. A little over a year before the divorce, we actually went to the city hall to get a divorce, but both broke down crying at the train station and tried to make a go of it for another year, before we decided it really had no chance of working.
Very few of the Western/Japanese marriages I know actually last long term, but heck, same could be said for marriages back home. Add in extra stress of massive cultural differences and it really is an uphill battle.
Sorry for your situation, wish I could help out with better advice.
Very few of the Western/Japanese marriages I know actually last long term, but heck, same could be said for marriages back home. Add in extra stress of massive cultural differences and it really is an uphill battle.
Sorry for your situation, wish I could help out with better advice.
Justanotherguywhotalks told it like it is. All excellent advice.
Can I share some of my insights?
First of all, I dated a Japanese girl seriously for about 4 years. After 2 I started fucking around on her. Had to. I was too young and had to use my 20-23 time slot before it was gone. But the girlfriend was useful; place to stay, she usually cooked, she kept me serious about school and work. I was the alpha, and I made her know that I had options. This is why your marriage is turning out the way it is.
At first it was great right? Lots of sex, lots of love. That was because you were a man of the world, cruising around doing your thing, making your mark, and you were slowly letting her be a part of it and that excited her.
Then you committed. You don't have to get married to commit, but that is the big one. Life didn't become more magical for her a few months after you said I Do, and she is slowly resenting that. She is starting to feel like she closed a chapter rather than opened one. This is mostly her fault, and society's, but too bad. You have to work with it.
I got married. I have been married for a little over a year, with my gf of 3.
She is not Japanese, she is half-Japanese and half-American, raised in the US until 13, then Japan since.
Thought that might make an important distinction.
In my marriage, I have become a beta. I work, I cook, I take care of just about everything. She cut me off from sex. We fuck sometimes, but it isn't the same. It is frustrating. She doesn't seem attracted to me.
She has issues with my family. She is younger and sexier than me. She is more creative and more talented than me, and she knows it. I make the money (she is an artist) but here and there she gets validation. A big commission work here, a gallery show there. She thinks she can beat me and has even wondered out loud whether she needs me.
But then, sometimes, we stop talking and things just happen. We live our lives and come back together and share it with each other and it's fun. She knows she can count on me and she showers me with love. Not always sex, but love. Maybe I am being used.
But here is what I realized. Life is cyclical. Woman especially is a beast that goes in cycles. You have to be a gardener. You don't treat your garden the same all year, the seasons and weather dictate that. So if you got married expecting a hot slice of pussy waiting for you every night, you were dead wrong.
I feel like I am back in the dating stage with my wife. Like, I have to court her and work at it like I did the first months we dated in order to get her in bed.
A woman hates nothing more than a man who expects sex. She is supposed believe that she is letting you have something special. And you should treat it like it is.
I still feel like a beta, but I am trying to do what Justanotherguywhotalks said. BE COLD. When you are a young bachelor you can get by on a wing and a prayer, use your charm etc. Because no one is counting on you.
Now, as a married man, all eyes are watching me. Friends see my priorities change, my family expects new things from me, work is much more serious, and of course, she is always there with the knowledge of every intimate detail of my life.
Women get suffocated by knowledge. They thrive on the unknown. You have to be that guy who still surprises her. That guy who has dangerous (I don't mean violent) thoughts in his head, the inscrutable poker face, always calm and collected, ready to take whatever punches the world throws. That is alpha. And she will be turned on by that. If you keep acting like a beta and let her know everything about you and show your frustration then she will treat you like a worn out record.
And she will hook up with some random guy had nothing over you other than the fact that he is the unknown.
So my advice for someone 5 years and 2 kids into a marriage (much further than I've gone) is to first;
Regroup. Make time for yourself. Eat your PRIMARY food. Focus on what you love. Women want men who excel at something and have skills. Don't stop learning just because her bullshit takes up all your time.
Then; start analyzing who you are. Life is a script, you fill in the words. Once something is said or done it is a part of the script. You write it. So be an author, chose your words and actions carefully. Don't blather, don't rant or whine, just be at peace. Think about the bigger picture. When you die, you are going to go alone. No wife can be there with you completely, so remember that.
Lastly; don't expect her to change immediately. The situation will probably be fraught with tension for awhile. You will look for signs of change and they won't come, or they won't satisfy you. She will hurt your sense of pride by not being so attracted to you, even though you are making yourself a new man. Don't let your ego be so fragile. Be confident. Half (or more) of things women say can be immediately reversed or nullified by something new they say.
My bonus tip is to reminisce at night with her. Bring up something fun from the past. Don't emphasize that things are not like that anymore, just bring it up and show that you get pleasure from the memory and just create an air of reverie. Then go to bed.
Can I share some of my insights?
First of all, I dated a Japanese girl seriously for about 4 years. After 2 I started fucking around on her. Had to. I was too young and had to use my 20-23 time slot before it was gone. But the girlfriend was useful; place to stay, she usually cooked, she kept me serious about school and work. I was the alpha, and I made her know that I had options. This is why your marriage is turning out the way it is.
At first it was great right? Lots of sex, lots of love. That was because you were a man of the world, cruising around doing your thing, making your mark, and you were slowly letting her be a part of it and that excited her.
Then you committed. You don't have to get married to commit, but that is the big one. Life didn't become more magical for her a few months after you said I Do, and she is slowly resenting that. She is starting to feel like she closed a chapter rather than opened one. This is mostly her fault, and society's, but too bad. You have to work with it.
I got married. I have been married for a little over a year, with my gf of 3.
She is not Japanese, she is half-Japanese and half-American, raised in the US until 13, then Japan since.
Thought that might make an important distinction.
In my marriage, I have become a beta. I work, I cook, I take care of just about everything. She cut me off from sex. We fuck sometimes, but it isn't the same. It is frustrating. She doesn't seem attracted to me.
She has issues with my family. She is younger and sexier than me. She is more creative and more talented than me, and she knows it. I make the money (she is an artist) but here and there she gets validation. A big commission work here, a gallery show there. She thinks she can beat me and has even wondered out loud whether she needs me.
But then, sometimes, we stop talking and things just happen. We live our lives and come back together and share it with each other and it's fun. She knows she can count on me and she showers me with love. Not always sex, but love. Maybe I am being used.
But here is what I realized. Life is cyclical. Woman especially is a beast that goes in cycles. You have to be a gardener. You don't treat your garden the same all year, the seasons and weather dictate that. So if you got married expecting a hot slice of pussy waiting for you every night, you were dead wrong.
I feel like I am back in the dating stage with my wife. Like, I have to court her and work at it like I did the first months we dated in order to get her in bed.
A woman hates nothing more than a man who expects sex. She is supposed believe that she is letting you have something special. And you should treat it like it is.
I still feel like a beta, but I am trying to do what Justanotherguywhotalks said. BE COLD. When you are a young bachelor you can get by on a wing and a prayer, use your charm etc. Because no one is counting on you.
Now, as a married man, all eyes are watching me. Friends see my priorities change, my family expects new things from me, work is much more serious, and of course, she is always there with the knowledge of every intimate detail of my life.
Women get suffocated by knowledge. They thrive on the unknown. You have to be that guy who still surprises her. That guy who has dangerous (I don't mean violent) thoughts in his head, the inscrutable poker face, always calm and collected, ready to take whatever punches the world throws. That is alpha. And she will be turned on by that. If you keep acting like a beta and let her know everything about you and show your frustration then she will treat you like a worn out record.
And she will hook up with some random guy had nothing over you other than the fact that he is the unknown.
So my advice for someone 5 years and 2 kids into a marriage (much further than I've gone) is to first;
Regroup. Make time for yourself. Eat your PRIMARY food. Focus on what you love. Women want men who excel at something and have skills. Don't stop learning just because her bullshit takes up all your time.
Then; start analyzing who you are. Life is a script, you fill in the words. Once something is said or done it is a part of the script. You write it. So be an author, chose your words and actions carefully. Don't blather, don't rant or whine, just be at peace. Think about the bigger picture. When you die, you are going to go alone. No wife can be there with you completely, so remember that.
Lastly; don't expect her to change immediately. The situation will probably be fraught with tension for awhile. You will look for signs of change and they won't come, or they won't satisfy you. She will hurt your sense of pride by not being so attracted to you, even though you are making yourself a new man. Don't let your ego be so fragile. Be confident. Half (or more) of things women say can be immediately reversed or nullified by something new they say.
My bonus tip is to reminisce at night with her. Bring up something fun from the past. Don't emphasize that things are not like that anymore, just bring it up and show that you get pleasure from the memory and just create an air of reverie. Then go to bed.
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BaradaNicto
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@Justanotherguywhotalks Thanks for that posting. Filled with great advice.
I am in the same situation. Before we were married it's as if she was trying to sell me. Everything was wonderful. As soon as we were married (took about 2 weeks) her true colors started showing. Sex went from oooh and aaah to "I don't really like that" and she just wanted it over with missionary only.
Married 3 years... Knew I made a mistake about 6 months into the marriage. Was going to get a divorce and found out she was pregnant. Haven't slept together for over 2 years. I decided to stay for my daughter, but... It's very difficult to handle her constant fury. I turned to the wild side (whores as you say) and this site has helped immensely with that.
And to everyone else talking about marrying Japanese women:
I have known many Europeans who married Japanese women and have wonderful marriages. Still call each other sweetie and hold hands. The problem is not Japanese women and Western men, the problem is picking the right woman. In America, the majority of my friends who have been married for more than 5 years, there's no sex, no love and no happiness left. There are cultural differences as far as marriage and divorce go in Japan, but the women really mirror those of the rest of the world. Don't turn this into a Japanese thing.
It isn't.
If you aren't compatible, don't get married.
I am in the same situation. Before we were married it's as if she was trying to sell me. Everything was wonderful. As soon as we were married (took about 2 weeks) her true colors started showing. Sex went from oooh and aaah to "I don't really like that" and she just wanted it over with missionary only.
Married 3 years... Knew I made a mistake about 6 months into the marriage. Was going to get a divorce and found out she was pregnant. Haven't slept together for over 2 years. I decided to stay for my daughter, but... It's very difficult to handle her constant fury. I turned to the wild side (whores as you say) and this site has helped immensely with that.
And to everyone else talking about marrying Japanese women:
I have known many Europeans who married Japanese women and have wonderful marriages. Still call each other sweetie and hold hands. The problem is not Japanese women and Western men, the problem is picking the right woman. In America, the majority of my friends who have been married for more than 5 years, there's no sex, no love and no happiness left. There are cultural differences as far as marriage and divorce go in Japan, but the women really mirror those of the rest of the world. Don't turn this into a Japanese thing.
It isn't.
If you aren't compatible, don't get married.
fireman
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While this is objectively good advice, I think it's impossible for anyone to know what they and their partner will think of each other in 5 years -- particularly if they have different cultural backgrounds and can't pick up as easily on each other's more subtle cues.
Solong
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ROOT problems with marrying Japanese women are:
1. Many will COPY what their MOTHER did.
So if mom had or has a dysfunctional relationship with dad and is a stubborn no-sex parasite that treated dad as an ATM robot, then daughter can think that's how it's done.
And mom can impart more of this insane "wisdom" when the daughter is about to or when she gets married.
Be mindful of how her mom raised her and what she has told her.
2. Many Japanese women will take advice from girlfriends in bad relationships that don't know how to treat men properly.
In these "girls only groups" the ring leader and alpha females can be man-hating monsters.
They will tell other women the worse advice possible and even push other women to do the most fracked up things possible to their husband and men.
You may have a heart attack knowing the type of stuff her girlfriends advise her to do. Have a talk with her girlfriends and find out.
3. What many foreign men don't know, is that many Japanese can be constantly talking bad about you and against you.
Whenever there is a relationship problem or she asks for advice, there can be some racist Japanese hater there saying the problem is that she married a foreigner. Like as if the Japanese were a separate species and alien race, and mixing with other humans on Earth isn't really possible.
Japanese women are constantly bombarded with this ultra nationalistic and racist propaganda. Books, magazines, TV, friends, etc...
It can wear her down over time and exploit her anytime after having an argument or she has the slightest doubt. Then, you are the foreign enemy.
Keep this mind, and talk with her about it to see where her mind is at.
4. Sex can be seen by her as a duty or burden, OR something she becomes TOO OLD to do.
The thinking is messed up, but it can be reinforced by bad female advice. It's a negative thing embedded in the culture.
So after having a baby or turning only 30, she can be thinking she is DONE with her "sexual duty" or sex is only for young women. Now it's time to be MOMMY dearest. You, the man, are the robot ATM dad who caters to her every whim and cash withdrawal requests.
5. Many women are VERY SNEAKY and use SEX as a weapon of manipulation.
If she WANTS SEX, she can easily find sex friends OUTSIDE the relationship.
She does NOT need the husband for sex. Therefore, she can use this position as power to MANIPULATE and CONTROL the begging for it husband.
DON'T BEG your wife for sex, it usually doesn't work. Even if she gives you some, you are now deeper in a TRAP and in her CONTROL.
6. For many Japanese women, there is NO negotiation.
Either do what she wants, or get LOST. There are Japanese women that are outright cute little DEVILS... Especially if you are a foreign man depending on a visa, want sex, or want to see your kids.
And for many Japanese women, the more you complain or whine about something or about being treated badly, the weaker she thinks you are.
7. Being a weak begging nice guy, does NOT work.
As a man, your only real options are negotiating from a position of strength.
If she is not giving you sex, go without it or find a sex friend outside (as she might be sneakily doing).
Don't let her abuse and manipulate you, the more you do, the worse it's usually going to get.
She either understands logic and how to be a TEAM PLAYER, or she doesn't. All the weak man begging and arguing will not make her understand.
1. Many will COPY what their MOTHER did.
So if mom had or has a dysfunctional relationship with dad and is a stubborn no-sex parasite that treated dad as an ATM robot, then daughter can think that's how it's done.
And mom can impart more of this insane "wisdom" when the daughter is about to or when she gets married.
Be mindful of how her mom raised her and what she has told her.
2. Many Japanese women will take advice from girlfriends in bad relationships that don't know how to treat men properly.
In these "girls only groups" the ring leader and alpha females can be man-hating monsters.
They will tell other women the worse advice possible and even push other women to do the most fracked up things possible to their husband and men.
You may have a heart attack knowing the type of stuff her girlfriends advise her to do. Have a talk with her girlfriends and find out.
3. What many foreign men don't know, is that many Japanese can be constantly talking bad about you and against you.
Whenever there is a relationship problem or she asks for advice, there can be some racist Japanese hater there saying the problem is that she married a foreigner. Like as if the Japanese were a separate species and alien race, and mixing with other humans on Earth isn't really possible.
Japanese women are constantly bombarded with this ultra nationalistic and racist propaganda. Books, magazines, TV, friends, etc...
It can wear her down over time and exploit her anytime after having an argument or she has the slightest doubt. Then, you are the foreign enemy.
Keep this mind, and talk with her about it to see where her mind is at.
4. Sex can be seen by her as a duty or burden, OR something she becomes TOO OLD to do.
The thinking is messed up, but it can be reinforced by bad female advice. It's a negative thing embedded in the culture.
So after having a baby or turning only 30, she can be thinking she is DONE with her "sexual duty" or sex is only for young women. Now it's time to be MOMMY dearest. You, the man, are the robot ATM dad who caters to her every whim and cash withdrawal requests.
5. Many women are VERY SNEAKY and use SEX as a weapon of manipulation.
If she WANTS SEX, she can easily find sex friends OUTSIDE the relationship.
She does NOT need the husband for sex. Therefore, she can use this position as power to MANIPULATE and CONTROL the begging for it husband.
DON'T BEG your wife for sex, it usually doesn't work. Even if she gives you some, you are now deeper in a TRAP and in her CONTROL.
6. For many Japanese women, there is NO negotiation.
Either do what she wants, or get LOST. There are Japanese women that are outright cute little DEVILS... Especially if you are a foreign man depending on a visa, want sex, or want to see your kids.
And for many Japanese women, the more you complain or whine about something or about being treated badly, the weaker she thinks you are.
7. Being a weak begging nice guy, does NOT work.
As a man, your only real options are negotiating from a position of strength.
If she is not giving you sex, go without it or find a sex friend outside (as she might be sneakily doing).
Don't let her abuse and manipulate you, the more you do, the worse it's usually going to get.
She either understands logic and how to be a TEAM PLAYER, or she doesn't. All the weak man begging and arguing will not make her understand.
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You cant generalise about women/race/culture. I've been married for over 30 years to a Filipina. Religion (Catholicism) and extended family are the biggest cultural divides. Others here say thay Japanese women expect their husbands to play around. Try that with a Filipina and you may wake up one morning with your private parts surgically removed with a kitchen knife. Also, kids are one of the biggest argument starters in an inter-cultural marriage. Finance seems to be a fair way down the list. Admittedly I married late and we have no kids, nor is there a more than normal age gap. Marrying somebody half your age is asking for trouble.
Panda989
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To start,
Married 4 (almost 5) years, 2 kids now back in the states.
Sooooo love the posts, there is a lot of truth above and a bit that is questionable, but mainly I would agree with the majority of things said.
Divorce – I have seen this first hand with many of my friends.
Stepping out, punting, hobby’ing, whatever you want to call it, can be useful for you sake, but can screw things up as well.
For me, like a lot of you, I am stuck, I do often want out, as frankly we just don’t see things in life the same way and have a different value structure and different personalities, I’m open and up front, very blunt, and she is embarrassed by EVERYTHING and is ashamed at basically everything I say and do, no matter how good of a husband and father and earner I am!
I don’t fear that my wife will go and take the kids back to Japan, as my in-laws actually love me to death, and they would kick her ass if she tried that.
Her mom had friggin litter of kids and worked the whole time, and was super mom and super wife, so my wife’s BS complaints are returned with a nice polite STFU from her mother, which is nice for me.
I love my wife, and we still have sex, but only if I let it be known that I’m interested, and rarely am I turned down, but it’s not the 3x a day that we had before we were married that’s for sure, and after kids, please… I don’t beg, I just let her know that I’m interested and she has no issues there. Her Japanese humble side means she will never ask for it, but I can’t change that. We don’t really touch, we don’t really kiss, but I keep her laughing, and though the sex isn’t fantastic, it’s not as bad as other relationships I was stuck in over the years. So I survive on a bit here and tere when I need it, and find the exciting stuff whilst I’m on the road (preferably in a different country or different state at least.
Our issues are not the extensive travel, or punting, but the classics like finance, we have plenty and that’s never enough for her. It’s not so she can be in LV bags but rather the saving mentality her parents gave her, and a drive to pay for a university education for the kids. Or the fact that not working has turned her brain into jell-o, and she can’t remember shit anymore, or follow the simplest of instructions without asking for help….
I have tried talking to her about our issues, but I have to say the Alpha vs Beta thing does come into play here, I am the man in this house, and in this relationship, and she is very aware about it. I was stupid at one point and gave an inch, and she took a mile when I wasn’t looking around other things. I spotted that and shut that down as quickly as I could, but never got that mile back on that particular issue. As a more traditional Japanese women, she respected the stand I took (I’m sure he mother has been some help with that), and it helps that I can yell in the traditional Japanese deep yelling tone like you hear at the bar or in a movie.
Both of us have short term memory for arguments, I will drop the issue in 15 seconds, and she will not remember by the time she wakes up in the morning, so thank god for that. But when we fight it’s normally over when she starts yelling in Japanese, as I lose her when she gets ghetto. And at that point I just ignore her, but I always sleep in my own damn bed, I paid for it and the house it sits in, if she has an issue we have 3 other beds in the house and a really nice couch for her to sleep on.
My best advice is this.
Married 4 (almost 5) years, 2 kids now back in the states.
Sooooo love the posts, there is a lot of truth above and a bit that is questionable, but mainly I would agree with the majority of things said.
Divorce – I have seen this first hand with many of my friends.
- You will LOSE; unless you have proof that you have been abused or that she is cheating or beating the kids, your screwed period.
- You will not see your kids, as you’re the bad guy, and unless you have a VERY sympathetic mother in law forget it as you’re dead to them.
- I have only caught wind of one kid that managed to escape to his father (though I’m sure there are more) and he had to be smuggled out of the country by the US consulate staff in Osaka to KIX in a diplomatic car. The first EVER kid was returned by the Japanese courts to the states in July of last year read here: http://tiny.cc/exrsrw
- There really is no family law per say like in other countries so the kids tend to “stay wherever they are”, and even if you reside outside of Japan like I do, all she has to do is take the kids on holiday to Japan, and can never return, and I will guarantee you the courts will do nothing for you, nor will your government, as the Japanese did not sign the international kidnapping treaty. I know this AS FACT as it has happen to a few mates.
Stepping out, punting, hobby’ing, whatever you want to call it, can be useful for you sake, but can screw things up as well.
- . I travel a lot (which may be why I’m not divorced) and when you’re on the road for a month you start looking around, just be safe in what you do, and make sure you are being quite about it etc. My wife has no access to the finances so it’s easier for me.
- If you have an iPhone make sure she does not know how to use “track my phone” or your done for, but that’s a good thing to remember if you thing she is messing about on you as well, she may not know how to turn it off or what it does, lord knows my wife has no clue, she just wonders way I know where she is when I call her.
- And I agree don’t bang the naughty girls at work, unless you have a very straight forward conversation about the rules with the girl FIRST.
- I made sure of this when I went that road, we are adults, we have needs, and they aren’t being met.
- We can meet once a month and no more
- Dinner and a nice evening in a LH that is nowhere near where any of my or my wife’s friends would ever be (usually I went to chiba, I mean who the hell goes there)
- We go our separate ways, and that’s that.
- NO banging in the LH down the street from the office, no taking them shopping in Ginza where you will run into someone you know etc etc etc
For me, like a lot of you, I am stuck, I do often want out, as frankly we just don’t see things in life the same way and have a different value structure and different personalities, I’m open and up front, very blunt, and she is embarrassed by EVERYTHING and is ashamed at basically everything I say and do, no matter how good of a husband and father and earner I am!
I don’t fear that my wife will go and take the kids back to Japan, as my in-laws actually love me to death, and they would kick her ass if she tried that.
Her mom had friggin litter of kids and worked the whole time, and was super mom and super wife, so my wife’s BS complaints are returned with a nice polite STFU from her mother, which is nice for me.
I love my wife, and we still have sex, but only if I let it be known that I’m interested, and rarely am I turned down, but it’s not the 3x a day that we had before we were married that’s for sure, and after kids, please… I don’t beg, I just let her know that I’m interested and she has no issues there. Her Japanese humble side means she will never ask for it, but I can’t change that. We don’t really touch, we don’t really kiss, but I keep her laughing, and though the sex isn’t fantastic, it’s not as bad as other relationships I was stuck in over the years. So I survive on a bit here and tere when I need it, and find the exciting stuff whilst I’m on the road (preferably in a different country or different state at least.
Our issues are not the extensive travel, or punting, but the classics like finance, we have plenty and that’s never enough for her. It’s not so she can be in LV bags but rather the saving mentality her parents gave her, and a drive to pay for a university education for the kids. Or the fact that not working has turned her brain into jell-o, and she can’t remember shit anymore, or follow the simplest of instructions without asking for help….
I have tried talking to her about our issues, but I have to say the Alpha vs Beta thing does come into play here, I am the man in this house, and in this relationship, and she is very aware about it. I was stupid at one point and gave an inch, and she took a mile when I wasn’t looking around other things. I spotted that and shut that down as quickly as I could, but never got that mile back on that particular issue. As a more traditional Japanese women, she respected the stand I took (I’m sure he mother has been some help with that), and it helps that I can yell in the traditional Japanese deep yelling tone like you hear at the bar or in a movie.
Both of us have short term memory for arguments, I will drop the issue in 15 seconds, and she will not remember by the time she wakes up in the morning, so thank god for that. But when we fight it’s normally over when she starts yelling in Japanese, as I lose her when she gets ghetto. And at that point I just ignore her, but I always sleep in my own damn bed, I paid for it and the house it sits in, if she has an issue we have 3 other beds in the house and a really nice couch for her to sleep on.
My best advice is this.
- Spend some time trying to understand what you need, and want in your relationship, decide if you think you can get it (or get it back) have the conversation, show that you still have a desire for her, and for your relationship.
- Protect yourself; don’t sign anything you don’t understand, without showing it to a lawyer. (I have heard that you can go to your ward or city office and sign a document that says your wife must have your signature to get divorced, but I have never seen it first hand). If your “punting” be smart about it, and always make sure you have funds that are yours to have for a emergency, I hold the money in my house, but even I have money she has no clue about, and she has her own stash I’m sure as well in Japan.
- Be willing to walk away if needed: this is tough, but you have to be willing to fish or cut bait if the end is here. The best thing you can do is try and see your kids on a regular basis and allow things to be personable and not a war, you will lose either way but if it’s not a war then you may still see your kids like some of my friends still do.
fireman
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I find that 90% of the marriage game is maintaining your wife's respect for you. Japanese women are, for the most part, totally pre-feminist, and they expect to have a man who is strong, positive and in charge. (Many Japanese men are not like this. That is likely to be a major reason why your wife did not marry a Japanese man).
Anyway, no begging for sex, no leaning on her to sort out your problems, no bitching about how much she spends unless it's more than you can provide, and no letting her control anything (though you should always get her opinion). Basically you have to be a hard-ass who periodically shows a soft and supportive side to her, but otherwise is happy to do his own thing and expects her to fall in line. Watch some classic movies from the fifties to get a general idea. Gregory Peck characters are a good model. Or watch Mad Men, maybe (though you probably don't want to emulate those guys 100%).
I have been sexless at times and I have found that staying in fifties hard-ass mode brought the sex back naturally. YMMV of course.
Anyway, no begging for sex, no leaning on her to sort out your problems, no bitching about how much she spends unless it's more than you can provide, and no letting her control anything (though you should always get her opinion). Basically you have to be a hard-ass who periodically shows a soft and supportive side to her, but otherwise is happy to do his own thing and expects her to fall in line. Watch some classic movies from the fifties to get a general idea. Gregory Peck characters are a good model. Or watch Mad Men, maybe (though you probably don't want to emulate those guys 100%).
I have been sexless at times and I have found that staying in fifties hard-ass mode brought the sex back naturally. YMMV of course.
Solong
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@fireman
Totally agree. Many men have problems with Japanese women, because they are trying to treat them in an ideal Western way.
I had to learn the hard way too. I have been in Japan for years, been married, and lived with a number of women. I'm not talking theory, but hard earned experience. And I have many Western male and Japanese pals, with similar issues. I have specifically studied the subject and talk to numerous people living in Japan and dating or married to Japanese women.
And, before I go on, I like Japanese women and Japan. That's partly why I live here. So...
Nearly all Japanese women, with the exception of bi-racial ones that grew up with BOTH parents or grew up in the West, do NOT truly understand Western culture. And even that which they do understand, may conflict with her Japanese belief system or deeply embedded Japanese ideals.
She may speak excellent English, even went to college in the West or lived in the West a few years, but Japanese culture and thinking can still be dominant for her.
Many Western guys get CONFUSED and make the mistake that their Japanese girlfriend understands the Western concept of an ideal relationship. That is often a HUGE ERROR, that will bite them in the butt later.
Some Western guys may also try forcing her to understand, through long talks or lots of complaining. She may nod her head yes, even repeat back what you said, but it's often pointless.
She may even explicitly state she wants a Western style relationship, but she will often NOT understand how to implement it or unconsciously or secretly reject it.
And actually, many Western guys, don't know specifically what kind of relationship that he wants either or what roles he wants her to fulfil. Thus adding to her confusion.
What Western guys should be aware of:
1. Western style kindness and chivalry, is seen as a weakness. She will think of you as a weak man she can abuse.
2. Begging, whining, or complaining only makes her think you are weak or less of a man.
3. Relying or depending on her in any way, be it for rent money or even laundry, is something she sees as being able to exploit to her advantage OR something she may come to resent you for later.
Resentment and revenge are arguably strong themes in Japanese passive aggressive behavior and honne vs tatemae.
4. Very related to that, is relying or depending on her for sex. She will see it as an exploitable weakness that she can manipulate you with OR later resent your requests/demands for it.
If there is no female competition to take her position, she may feel she owns you. Sex is to be dealt out as a reward or based on her mood, how she sees fit, not based on the man's requests or demands. Especially not when he begs for it, because he has become pathetic and lowly in her eyes, if he does.
To frustrate or deny a man's request, has become empowering to many women. To submit to a man's request, no matter how fair or justified, still can be seen as a burdensome duty.
5. There really isn't any negotiation or understanding of the Western ideal of a relationship between equals.
You can try to iron out an agreement with her, where you attempt to appease her every whim, but doing so empowers her and weakens you in her subconscious mind.
It means that by conceding to what she wants, she can get you to do MORE of what she wants. Thus guys inadvertently create "dragon women", that keep wanting more power and control over the relationship, until she destroys it.
A Man In Japanese Eyes
When a man has everything together, in terms of job, money, vision of the future, leadership... She understands that her crap can't affect him, so she follows his lead. She understands that she is easily REPLACEABLE, so she decides to follow a good thing, or lose out to another woman.
Under a strong male leader, she sees doing; tasks, chores, and sex with him as a privilege. She wants to do them, to win his approval of her. She doesn't want to fail him, because she fears losing his affection. She wants to give you as much sex as possible, to include anything kinky, because she fears you going to get from other women.
The PROCESS of winning you over, often makes her the happiest. If she feels that she has won, than you are a mountain already climbed and boring. If she feels that she owns you and other women don't want you, then she doesn't feel like doing anything for you. You have become unworthy in her eyes.
When Japanese women fear losing you, fear your rejection of her, fear the competition of other women, etc... That is when they WANT to do the MOST for you and feel GLAD to do it.
Something to think about.
Totally agree. Many men have problems with Japanese women, because they are trying to treat them in an ideal Western way.
I had to learn the hard way too. I have been in Japan for years, been married, and lived with a number of women. I'm not talking theory, but hard earned experience. And I have many Western male and Japanese pals, with similar issues. I have specifically studied the subject and talk to numerous people living in Japan and dating or married to Japanese women.
And, before I go on, I like Japanese women and Japan. That's partly why I live here. So...
Nearly all Japanese women, with the exception of bi-racial ones that grew up with BOTH parents or grew up in the West, do NOT truly understand Western culture. And even that which they do understand, may conflict with her Japanese belief system or deeply embedded Japanese ideals.
She may speak excellent English, even went to college in the West or lived in the West a few years, but Japanese culture and thinking can still be dominant for her.
Many Western guys get CONFUSED and make the mistake that their Japanese girlfriend understands the Western concept of an ideal relationship. That is often a HUGE ERROR, that will bite them in the butt later.
Some Western guys may also try forcing her to understand, through long talks or lots of complaining. She may nod her head yes, even repeat back what you said, but it's often pointless.
She may even explicitly state she wants a Western style relationship, but she will often NOT understand how to implement it or unconsciously or secretly reject it.
And actually, many Western guys, don't know specifically what kind of relationship that he wants either or what roles he wants her to fulfil. Thus adding to her confusion.
What Western guys should be aware of:
1. Western style kindness and chivalry, is seen as a weakness. She will think of you as a weak man she can abuse.
2. Begging, whining, or complaining only makes her think you are weak or less of a man.
3. Relying or depending on her in any way, be it for rent money or even laundry, is something she sees as being able to exploit to her advantage OR something she may come to resent you for later.
Resentment and revenge are arguably strong themes in Japanese passive aggressive behavior and honne vs tatemae.
4. Very related to that, is relying or depending on her for sex. She will see it as an exploitable weakness that she can manipulate you with OR later resent your requests/demands for it.
If there is no female competition to take her position, she may feel she owns you. Sex is to be dealt out as a reward or based on her mood, how she sees fit, not based on the man's requests or demands. Especially not when he begs for it, because he has become pathetic and lowly in her eyes, if he does.
To frustrate or deny a man's request, has become empowering to many women. To submit to a man's request, no matter how fair or justified, still can be seen as a burdensome duty.
5. There really isn't any negotiation or understanding of the Western ideal of a relationship between equals.
You can try to iron out an agreement with her, where you attempt to appease her every whim, but doing so empowers her and weakens you in her subconscious mind.
It means that by conceding to what she wants, she can get you to do MORE of what she wants. Thus guys inadvertently create "dragon women", that keep wanting more power and control over the relationship, until she destroys it.
A Man In Japanese Eyes
When a man has everything together, in terms of job, money, vision of the future, leadership... She understands that her crap can't affect him, so she follows his lead. She understands that she is easily REPLACEABLE, so she decides to follow a good thing, or lose out to another woman.
Under a strong male leader, she sees doing; tasks, chores, and sex with him as a privilege. She wants to do them, to win his approval of her. She doesn't want to fail him, because she fears losing his affection. She wants to give you as much sex as possible, to include anything kinky, because she fears you going to get from other women.
The PROCESS of winning you over, often makes her the happiest. If she feels that she has won, than you are a mountain already climbed and boring. If she feels that she owns you and other women don't want you, then she doesn't feel like doing anything for you. You have become unworthy in her eyes.
When Japanese women fear losing you, fear your rejection of her, fear the competition of other women, etc... That is when they WANT to do the MOST for you and feel GLAD to do it.
Something to think about.
Last edited:
Solong
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"Cheating" or open-relationships (and there are different kinds) are common in Japan. A husband is often for financial security, to appease her family or the social pressure, or because of babies.
Sexual passion is often lacking, so many married women look outside the marriage or almost totally turn off sexually. Sexual hookups and cheating is much easier to do for women.
And a reason to prefer Japanese guys can be that if they have a baby by their lover, it will look Asian. DNA testing babies still isn't common in Japan. However, UNLIKE many Western countries, Japanese women will get an abortion if they think that they can't get away with having their lover's baby.