Nampa baby steps questions

[raoxi]

Nice approaches! Finish with a line swap next time perhaps. But I find giving out line is a very natural defense they do... then they just dont really respond on line afterwards -.-

 

[Sinapse]

Someone once said to ignore the results from your first 100 approaches.

It's certainly something which you might consider, at least to take some pressure off yourself and get your mind into the process mindset rather than hoping for results from the very beginning.

they just dont really respond on line afterwards

Yeah there's a few things you can do to increase response rates. Making a better connection (can be done in a short period as well), not making the LINE close the climax of the interaction, not overstaying (leave first), "trying" less, etc

 

[kramal]

then they just dont really respond on line afterwards -.-

I hate to brake your bubble but girls that give out line easily will give it to MANY guys. Trust me I've observed girls in bars, the guys virtualy line up to every slut and she gives out line after a little conversation. So your competition is very high and unless you can give them something someone else can't, it's just luck if she's super attracted to you (physically) or not.

If you're desperate to get laid for free it's better to talk to the less popular girls. Just pick the one who seems to be ignored by everyone.

 

[DocMcStuffins]

I think you're being unfair to the "bitchy" girl. If you're getting hit on all the time, that is your quickest way to reject. It has nothing to do with personality.

How do you deal with telemarketers and NHK collectors?

 

[kramal]

Giving out line is not a rejection it's giving false hope and wasting time.

How do you deal with telemarketers and NHK collectors?

Shut the door or hang up?

 

[MikeH]

Giving out line is not a rejection it's giving false hope and wasting time.

Nope, it's the new rejection and saving time. Her time.

 

[tokyosteven77]

Someone once said to ignore the results from your first 100 approaches.

Seems like sound advice

Having said that if I get absolutely nothing from the first 100 I will be disappointed. At current rate that's gonna take like another 6 weeks lol

 

[Garcian]

Seems like sound advice

Having said that if I get absolutely nothing from the first 100 I will be disappointed. At current rate that's gonna take like another 6 weeks lol

I think you will get a huge confidence boost out of this, regardless of what happens within the first 100. So, nothing to lose, right?

 

[tokyosteven77]

I think you will get a huge confidence boost out of this, regardless of what happens within the first 100. So, nothing to lose, right?

Very true

And it's already been a success really because now that i'm able to approach girls in non-standard places (street, shops, stations), approaching them in standard places (bars/clubs) feels a lot easier. Plus even if this doesn't work out for me as a way to get regular casual sex, I feel that in future, when one of those rare moments comes up, when there's like a girl you really like and a perfect opportunity to talk to her... I will take the opportunity instead of wasting it and then feeling crap about it for ages (pretty much what I always did until now, and really had enough of that).

 

[Sinapse]

Very true

And it's already been a success really because now that i'm able to approach girls in non-standard places (street, shops, stations), approaching them in standard places (bars/clubs) feels a lot easier. Plus even if this doesn't work out for me as a way to get regular casual sex, I feel that in future, when one of those rare moments comes up, when there's like a girl you really like and a perfect opportunity to talk to her... I will take the opportunity instead of wasting it and then feeling crap about it for ages (pretty much what I always did until now, and really had enough of that).

Yes! It's a lifelong skill, one which liberates you from fear and inaction. Giving up the idea of getting results within the first 100 might paradoxically lead you to more results! In general, seeking results has a certain "smell" to it.. The だれでもいい or ナンパくさい feeling which girls don't like. Switching to a process-based mindset or a checking for affinity mindset will serve you well. Moving from "how do I get this girl to like me" to "I'm checking for affinity, what is this girl all about?" Will greatly help you

 

[Dudsie]

First time to share here after two days asking random girls in various places. First, I learned the basics by example. I watched YouTube videos (actual footage of guys asking girls to go out) and using the same line of questions after you approach a girl.

I realized that doing the first time approach is the hardest. The outline roughly is:
(Told in Japanese)
1. Excuse me, do you have some time?
2. I am new here so I am wondering about meeting new people.
3. If it is ok, can we talk a bit
4. Look shy but smile for every response
5. If she says yes, then ask you can sit beside her or go a little closer (it was quite noisy outside)
6. Thank a lot
7. Ask where she from, what she does, smile a lot, appear interested in her response (not much eye contact yet)
8. After asking about 10-15 questions, if she begins to ask you then that is the time for eye contact
9. Never forget to ask her line; it is not usual she will go with you
10. Schedule a Meetup thru line

As I've said I was lucky. I woke up in the morning with her msg

1. Where are you?
2. I drank with my friends?
3. Are you alone?

And the rest is history.

 

[raoxi]

First time to share here after two days asking random girls in various places. First, I learned the basics by example. I watched YouTube videos (actual footage of guys asking girls to go out) and using the same line of questions after you approach a girl.

I realized that doing the first time approach is the hardest. The outline roughly is:
(Told in Japanese)
1. Excuse me, do you have some time?
2. I am new here so I am wondering about meeting new people.
3. If it is ok, can we talk a bit
4. Look shy but smile for every response
5. If she says yes, then ask you can sit beside her or go a little closer (it was quite noisy outside)
6. Thank a lot
7. Ask where she from, what she does, smile a lot, appear interested in her response (not much eye contact yet)
8. After asking about 10-15 questions, if she begins to ask you then that is the time for eye contact
9. Never forget to ask her line; it is not usual she will go with you
10. Schedule a Meetup thru line

As I've said I was lucky. I woke up in the morning with her msg

1. Where are you?
2. I drank with my friends?
3. Are you alone?

And the rest is history.

Where did you make the move? At a cafe? Outside a station etc? Where did you have the most success?

 

[Dudsie]

Probably I was just lucky. It was in Ueno station exit where there was a live street jazz players. I was told that Shibuya probably is the easiest place but I read from others that such is not the case. Perhaps it is always about luck except for PUA.

Update: I felt extremely sad after being rejected by a girl without her saying anything. I asked my opening line. She looked at me from head to toe and just wagged her head as if disappointed and continued texting. I felt so much humiliated that I stopped that night and went home. So yeah, luck just for me.

 

[NorwayJin]

I can only speak for my self, but what i often do when i need to kill some time, like walking to school/work, in the shower etc, I visualise how i would pick up women. For instance, you said you saw a good looking girl writing in a notebook. First things that comes to mind is that i would say to her, "I hope you are drawing me from my good side". Open up with some humor, i find that to be the best ice breaker for me.

There is many good advices on this forum, and the only thing i can think of to add here, is visualise many many situations, and try them out when you have the chance.
Oh and from what i have read in this thread, I think you should think "higher" of yourself. Go up to a woman with the mindset that she has as much to lose/gain as you do.

 

[tokyosteven77]

Well, its been over a month since I last posted...

I continued with some sporadic solo daygame, but mainly for a couple weeks tried daygame in pairs, plus more nightgame (i.e. more focused than just 'going out'). Was interesting, got some LINES and a couple dates from it with one girl, but it's nothing I can 'count' as actual daygame progress. Pairs certainly reduces the AA, but it became very clear to me that I prefer going solo, being on your own terms and without compromise. Definitely also noticed that my nightgame had improved from the daygame experiences, and although its 'easier' in some regards, its just not as liberating, and in practical terms theres the alcohol, low girl ration, loud music etc all to deal with.

Then had a bit of a break due to other stuff, but a couple weeks ago, kinda got back on the horse with proper daygame. Finally got some LINES all by myself, and - finally - had an actual date with a girl. Guess this is after some 30+ approaches by now.

The girl I dated is very cute (desperate to fuck her to be honest) but like many young Japanese girls was so quiet and I had to do a lot of talking. She didn't send me a thank you msg afterwards which was concerning (for Japanese), so I wasn't really sure what to think. Next day decided I had to fire first with a fairly standard 'it was fun, lets meet again' type message, and was encouraged that she said yes, coupled with a heart mark. Its definitely not in the bag, but I feel theres a good chance of an actual 'outcome'.

Other thing to note perhaps, is that I recently started trying more to approach girls who are walking. I do see the benefits, it gives you more options and in a way its strangely less intrusive, as your both on your way anyway, and you can just peel away its not going anywhere. Its also just kinda exhilarating somehow. But I feel almost like a total newbie again with it, certainly have more AA than with stationary girls, and I'm backing off too quickly I think. I haven't quite calibrated it yet how long to persist (they usually say they are busy, on the way to meet a friend etc) and then I panic.

Overall though, I do feel that I'm making progress. Just wanted to report here that I'm still at it really. I'm definitely glad I started, its pretty much life changing to be honest, I feel that I'm embracing my own masculinity and desires more, and breaking out of that nice polite guy trap I have been stuck in. Very clear that I've really been repressed by all of that.

Thanks again to Sinapse for the videos and practical tips to get me inspired and started. For anyone starting out, I also got a lot amount from the podcasts of Tom Torero. His infield stuff not so much, but I got a lot from the theoretical/background side of things. Stuff like what women are attracted too, female dual dating strategy, red vs blue pill etc. It has definitely helped to change my thinking and outlook.

Cheers

 

[tokyosteven77]

Last girl didnt work out, 'too busy' for a 2nd date. Long story short, I think I was not playful / forward / 'alpha' enough on the first date and just completley eroded her interest. Was kicking myself, its an old bad habit of mine, and specifically something I'm trying to fix by getting into pickup and seduction. Plus from the way she was looking at me at the beginning of the night, I'm sure she was into me (and in hindsight was maybe just looking for ONS). Anyway, so after the high I had a bit of a crash, lost all my momentum, was down about it for some days, and in the following two street sessions I failed to make a single approach.

Had a break and then yesterday pulled myself together. Made 5 approaches in about 2.5 hours (I'm still too picky). First girl was somewhat receptive but said she had a BF but my approach was very weak. Next 3 were cold shoulders (which hurt as I was already kinda low), but I really wanted a result so held out. Finally another chance came along (girl sitting on a bench) which I took, and suddenly everything was easy again, she was very receptive, giggly, and my approach was good, it was all playful and fun. She even suggested LINE exchange before I could even ask, definitely a first.

So anyway...

Now I have a kinda small but specifically-Japanese question. Something I often wondered about, its the old 'chan vs san' topic. I know its a relatively trivial thing, but I am really determined to 'convert' this one, and want to make sure I follow up the right way. I want to message her this morning to suggest a date on friday night. So bear in mind (a) she knows im a lot older than her (b) it was already playful with teasing, and I want to keep that vibe (c) i dont want to come across too polite, nice guy, 'beta'... my gut is really to go straight with the chan, and not san. But I just wanna be sure im not making like a terrible cultural faux-pas, cause offense or something.

So any advice on this? Ideally both from a pickup as well as general cultural POV. Again I know its a small silly, thing, but like I say, I've often wondered about this anyway, and specifically here I dont want to blow a great opportunity. (In case its relevant, she speaks fairly good english).

 

[vargas]

Now I have a kinda small but specifically-Japanese question. Something I often wondered about, its the old 'chan vs san' topic. I know its a relatively trivial thing, but I am really determined to 'convert' this one, and want to make sure I follow up the right way. I want to message her this morning to suggest a date on friday night. So bear in mind (a) she knows im a lot older than her (b) it was already playful with teasing, and I want to keep that vibe (c) i dont want to come across too polite, nice guy, 'beta'... my gut is really to go straight with the chan, and not san. But I just wanna be sure im not making like a terrible cultural faux-pas, cause offense or something.

So any advice on this? Ideally both from a pickup as well as general cultural POV. Again I know its a small silly, thing, but like I say, I've often wondered about this anyway, and specifically here I dont want to blow a great opportunity. (In case its relevant, she speaks fairly good english).

Definitely the diminutive chan, san is pretty cold and formal. In either case you’d probably get the gaijin pass and they’d think it was cute, but chan is more playful and only some super bitter old gaijin hunter would complain about your Japanese manners

 

[Sinapse]

I do see the benefits, it gives you more options and in a way its strangely less intrusive, as your both on your way anyway, and you can just peel away its not going anywhere. Its also just kinda exhilarating somehow.

Youre totally right. Exhilarating indeed!!

Overall though, I do feel that I'm making progress. Just wanted to report here that I'm still at it really. I'm definitely glad I started, its pretty much life changing to be honest, I feel that I'm embracing my own masculinity and desires more, and breaking out of that nice polite guy trap I have been stuck in. Very clear that I've really been repressed by all of that.

Nice man. Glad to see you persisting and keeping at it. It most certainly is a life changing endeavor you're on, one which most don't have the courage to even begin. It's funny how things start to clear up about our own internal self repression and social conditioning we've just accepted as true and internalized for so long without questioning.

Made 5 approaches in about 2.5 hours (I'm still too picky). First girl was somewhat receptive but said she had a BF but my approach was very weak. Next 3 were cold shoulders (which hurt as I was already kinda low), but I really wanted a result so held out

One thing I'd suggest to you is to view an approach as cheap. In other words, make more approaches, but expect less from them. View them as a "test for affinity" rather than an attempt to bring her home/make her like you. If you can start with pure curiosity in your mind (who is this girl, what is she about?) Rather than results focus (What can I say to make her like me) you will place less pressure on yourself while making more approaches, both of which will improve your results as well as the soften the pain of rejection. So if you catch yourself wandering around being to picky, just approach a random girl knowing that your approach isn't some sort of marriage contract - you can simply excuse yourself after a minute or two if she isn't interesting.

This also shifts the focus towards seeking interesting experiences and looking into the personality of women actively, which, needless to say, they FEEL and respond well to.

old 'chan vs san' topic.

Chan. San sounds a bit formal and creates some distance between you. You might use that for a girl considerably older than you or in a formal setting, but that's about it.

 

[vargas]

i dont want to come across too polite, nice guy, 'beta'...

Beta is usually shorthand for passive, indecisive, indirect, etc, which I’ve observed describes your average Japanese person pretty well simply speaking up and being direct in your intentions goes a long way. If you’re out there talking to girls I don’t think you need to worry much about being too nice, as long as you don’t get clingy or let them walk all over you.

To put it another way I’ve found asshole game is a lot less necessary in Japan where many girls are almost pathetically happy to get attention. Whereas back home your average 5/10 girl has thirsty dudes commenting in her every post on social media like she’s a supermodel.

 

[tokyosteven77]

Thanks, Vargas and Sinapse, chan it is. Sent her a message, so now my usual anxious waiting begins.. (Sucks when you only have 1 lead).

One thing I'd suggest to you is to view an approach as cheap. In other words, make more approaches, but expect less from them. View them as a "test for affinity" rather than an attempt to bring her home/make her like you

Your right, and I am trying to do that to an extent. But basically, I really, really should just think less and approach more. Especially as I start to realise by myself that...
(a) It doesnt matter so hugely how you approach / open (unless you really come across as weird, anxious or whatever) because basically if they are somehow open / like the look of you, they will talk, and
(b) You cant really predict how they will react. I have been surprised (in both directions) many times

You might use that for a girl considerably older than you or in a formal setting, but that's about it.

Well not much chance I will be needing it then. I'm WAY older than most of the girls I'm approaching (thank god I don't look my age)

 

[MikeH]

(Sucks when you only have 1 lead).

As every sales guy in the world would know, that does not only suck, it is a death penalty. Unless you have found so good a client that you are willing to go exclusive on him then never ever have just one lead.

It just makes you clingy and trying too hard to close the deal thus actually diminishing your chances of closing. So the obvious solution is to go out and get more leads. Leads are cheap, just like approaches.

 

[tokyosteven77]

To put it another way I’ve found asshole game is a lot less necessary in Japan where many girls are almost pathetically happy to get attention. Whereas back home your average 5/10 girl has thirsty dudes commenting in her every post on social media like she’s a supermodel.

Well rest assured, asshole game (lol) is definitely not an option for me. Actually my problem is more during the date, I just tend to talk too much about 'normal' topics, even veering into intellectual ones if the girl seems to have a brain, and always making them feel comfortable by filling silences etc. Until recently I had been choosing wrong kind of venues too, like nice places, a cafe/bakery in the afternoon or a restuarant. Even before I started pickup, getting dates was not so much the problem, its always been more about keeping their interest, or getting them to bed. Good news I suppose is that I have started to diagnose the problem finally.

Recently I read stuff by '60 years of challenge' on physical (micro) escalation. It would be extreme to do it by the letter, but it was a bit of a big 'doh' moment, and I really want to bring aspects of it into my dating. Its just become very clear to me, that again and again, I have just been killing off all sexual tension during dates.

I also tend to pay for everything on dates, and I'm starting to question if that is a good idea in terms of keeping it 'spikey', and instead putting myself in the lame 'beta-provider' box. (Sorry for jargon, been reading a lot recently). What about you guys?

 

[tokyosteven77]

It just makes you clingy and trying too hard to close the deal thus actually diminishing your chances of closing. So the obvious solution is to go out and get more leads. Leads are cheap, just like approaches.

You are 100% right. I have learned this the hard way, believe me. But however much you internalise it, you still can't act like you don't give a shit unles you genuinely have more leads. I will try to get out there this afternoon

Just checked my phone. She has read my messages and not yet replied... anxiety panic. hahaha EXACTLY

 

[MikeH]

I also tend to pay for everything on dates

You are the male and you are the older one. In Japan by default it means you pay. It doesn't put you in the paying papa role, unless that's what you are looking for.

Just that when you are older (and a male) you are thought to be making much more money than a younger and a more female person.

Most of the time that is of course true too, though I have dated several ladies who have way more loose cash than I do. It still doesn't change anything and I am more than happy to pick up the restaurant and hotel bills. It's not like I am offering them cars or diamonds anyway.

 

[vargas]

Well rest assured, asshole game (lol) is definitely not an option for me. Actually my problem is more during the date, I just tend to talk too much about 'normal' topics, even veering into intellectual ones if the girl seems to have a brain, and always making them feel comfortable by filling silences etc. Until recently I had been choosing wrong kind of venues too, like nice places, a cafe/bakery in the afternoon or a restuarant. Even before I started pickup, getting dates was not so much the problem, its always been more about keeping their interest, or getting them to bed. Good news I suppose is that I have started to diagnose the problem finally.

Recently I read stuff by '60 years of challenge' on physical (micro) escalation. It would be extreme to do it by the letter, but it was a bit of a big 'doh' moment, and I really want to bring aspects of it into my dating. Its just become very clear to me, that again and again, I have just been killing off all sexual tension during dates.

Active dates are a great idea, there are a couple of airsoft ranges in Tokyo and taking a girl shooting is a ton of fun. Good excuse to get close and show her how to aim and fire Ice skating is another good one.

In the past several women told me they had no idea I was interested in them until I made a sudden move. That surprised me, but just showed that I needed to escalate much more obviously. It’s definitely important to ramp up the sexual tension slowly but consistently. Teasing is great here, a little touch and then back off, make jokes about their sexual history, etc.

I also tend to pay for everything on dates, and I'm starting to question if that is a good idea in terms of keeping it 'spikey', and instead putting myself in the lame 'beta-provider' box. (Sorry for jargon, been reading a lot recently). What about you guys?

I always pay unless she insists, it’s the guy’s role to be the provider and most Japanese girls make very little money. It’s important not to be a chump, buying random girls drinks in a club, taking one out repeatedly with zero physical escalation, etc. But if they’re giving you what you want at a reasonable pace then most likely they appreciate being taken care of.