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Nanpa And Being A Creep...

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I've been trying to play around and meet girls since I've arrived here recently. Having self confidence issues and being rusty, that wasn't easy but I forced myself. I once was pretty good, mostly in France though but I had some success in Japan.

Yet I haven't had a single good interaction in the street or at any place were the girl is moving (station, shop). The only few discussions I had were when the woman was standing and had no way to escape.

And here is the issue : while many girls just express disinterest, some genuinely seem scared. They change direction to avoid me when they sense something, when using indirect approaches they lose their smile and their heart screams profoundly the second they realise I didn't go talk to them only for the pretext.

I am starting to think deep inside me that this is just wrong. If I didn't know there were PUA in Japan, I would have stopped already. You know I had the belief it was good to do that, they could appreciate a light discussion out of nowhere, or a compliment, that they have the right to say no but now I feel that I'm just a fucking creep contributing to the bad reputation gaijins have as players. That it works on non-moving targets because they have no choice, they would maybe like to move but can't. Obviously that shatters my self confidence and worsens results...

Before stopping altogether, I wanted to ask your point of view on that. Do you ever feel you're in that situation? What do you do about it? Do you have alternative beliefs that allow you to deal with these?
 
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Went to the Shibuya HUB, met some cool j-guy dating a British girl but very keen on nanpa and his friend.

We finished near Hachiko, which is a tremendous place to hit on girls Saturday at 11:30pm. Out of tens of attempts the worst I got was comparable to the worst I'd get in Europe, and incomparable in general to what I got these past days on Day Game.

So my question remains, there's definitely something here...

(I'd add that as of now I don't seem high in terms of attractiveness compared to the other foreigners, based on the reactions I get. In case that has anything to do.)
 
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To me game is basically learned charisma. It can be turned to different ends (I use variations of it in my work life, and it has improved a number of things for me). There, in my view, is no 'be yourself' and things work out in life. You want unconditional love, you better hope you got it from your mother, or pick up a dog. Outside of that, how you behave will either interest people or not. No single thing works with all people. But one thing certainly will not work... never taking chances and never talking to anyone. If you wait for the perfect time, or you wait for the approved time then you will lose plenty of opportunities. The determination of whether an attempt is liked or not is mostly on whether they like you or not. No way everyone is going to like you.

Having said that, on a fundamental level, how you behave and present yourself has to be in harmony with who you are. Not all aspects of game are workable for all. Night game would be a poor choice for me because I am not a bar goer. Day game would make more sense. If you are ugly then you will have an initial hurdle to clear that requires different tools than if you are viewed as attractive by a significant portion of the population.

Non-verbal queues will matter a lot. You sound like you have no confidence. That is a pretty big dividing line between having any chance for welcome reciprocation and being viewed as a creep. If a woman judges that you are below here, for whatever reason, then she is offended you thought you were in her league. You were supposed to know your place. You can't initiate an encounter with no confidence.

It is not really clear to me what you are doing. I have never had a woman react with fear markers just to me speaking with her. But the point of communication is to convey a message. If the message you are wanting to convey is being lost, then something is wrong with the communication. Perhaps you are coming on really hard.

I would suggest dialing back the intensity of the encounter. If you want to get back into a rhythm, just aim for a fun brief commentary. Then walk away.
 
Few really simple tips you can do that can make you seem less creepy:
1) Check your hygiene. Make sure you've brushed your teeth, combed your hair, shaved, etc. You may be ugly, but good, simple hygiene can make a world of difference.
2) Check your fashion. If you're walking around in a creepy outfit, you can get a cheap outfit at a place like uniqlo. If you're not sure what you need, copy what's on the mannequins there to give yourself a basic start. One of the easiest things you can do to appear normal is to look like other people she's used to seeing in her life.
3) Especially if you're tall, when you're standing there talking to a girl, try shifting your weight to about 70% on your rear foot. Don't lean in to her; seems like you're invading her space. Arms open leaning slightly back creates an open atmosphere to the girl.
4) Try to avoid raising the pitch in your voice too much, and watch your words. Speak clearly in your normal tone. If you start slurring and raising your pitch, it gives that kind of pervy vibe.

Try these things out and see what happens and report back!
 
you also need to realize talking to strangers in Japan isn't a thing and girls on there way to somewhere or clearly waiting for someone (as you said) won't be down to talk. If you're going to nanpa I recommend going to bars. clubs etc. As a woman I can tell you being namped on the street and pestered is the most annoying thing ever lol
 
you also need to realize talking to strangers in Japan isn't a thing and girls on there way to somewhere or clearly waiting for someone (as you said) won't be down to talk. If you're going to nanpa I recommend going to bars. clubs etc. As a woman I can tell you being namped on the street and pestered is the most annoying thing ever lol

My fiance and half a dozen LTRs, along with a couple dozen non-LTRs would disagree with you. Totally cool that you say you're not into it, IMO its not very constructive to try and speak for all women based on your personal view. Personally, streets have yielded some of the best results for quality, longer term interactions than bar/club.
 
My fiance and half a dozen LTRs, along with a couple dozen non-LTRs would disagree with you. Totally cool that you say you're not into it, IMO its not very constructive to try and speak for all women based on your personal view. Personally, streets have yielded some of the best results for quality, longer term interactions than bar/club.
Im not trying to speak for all women, what Im giving is a reason as to why maybe a lot of these women aren't reciprocating to him.
 
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And here is the issue : while many girls just express disinterest, some genuinely seem scared. They change direction to avoid me when they sense something, when using indirect approaches they lose their smile and their heart screams profoundly the second they realise I didn't go talk to them only for the pretext.

I am starting to think deep inside me that this is just wrong. If I didn't know there were PUA in Japan, I would have stopped already. You know I had the belief it was good to do that, they could appreciate a light discussion out of nowhere, or a compliment, that they have the right to say no but now I feel that I'm just a fucking creep contributing to the bad reputation gaijins have as players. That it works on non-moving targets because they have no choice, they would maybe like to move but can't. Obviously that shatters my self confidence and worsens results...

A great deal of the criticism of pickup / nampa is on it as a whole. Basically, people boiling down to saying "nampa is bad" or "nampa doesn't work" or "nampa is creepy". In reality, some nampa is bad, some nampa doesn't work, and some nampa is creepy. Others are welcomed, effective, and powerful. The key to "game" is moving yourself from the first camp into the second.

I'd resist the tendency both within yourself and from others telling you nampa is categorically X (especially the tired negative refrains), because in reality it DOES work. The key is to identify HOW to best do it so that it works. @static gave you some starters, but I'll just add a few more points in no particular order here:

-Women are not obligated to talk to you, ever. That said, many will be happy to do so if you approach well.
-Masking your intentions will lead to women feeling betrayed that you used a pretense to talk to her. For example, if you try to ask for directions or something indirect like that, it comes across both as weak and deceptive. On the other hand, being TOO direct is also too much - like a compliment right off the bat. This is like stuffing your kids face with cookies for no reason, you're handing out rewards and fattening things to people that neither asked nor deserved them. I get that telling someone something nice seems like a good idea in theory, but in reality it rarely works out well. The best approach instead is to simply start talking.
-Shibuya is a pretty rough place, and after about 7pm the shields go up pretty far. That doesn't mean it's impossible - far from it - but it does mean your game has to be extra tight at night. Same goes for Shinjuku, Roppongi, etc on the streets. If you want a more "easy mode" do it during the daytime in more relaxed stations, in bookstores, department stores, etc.
-Don't come in clowny or too high energy trying to substitute energy for sincerity/quality of interaction. Lower energy and "underwhelming" the girl works far better than trying to impress her. Simply being humble, chill, and a bit funny works best.
-If you're getting scared reactions, talk to them from slightly farther away - maybe at arm's length if it's a crowded area, always make sure you're seen before heard, and be relaxed yourself. Talk calmly and deliberately, not wildly or too erratically. Japanese helps as well, and you may need to repeat what you said to open as she may not have even heard it.
-There is a bit of a steep initial learning curve where it's quite easy to get discouraged, but if you power through that by taking right action, you will end up seeing improvements and see girls have less scared reactions, and of course you will get more contacts, dates, and lays the better you get at it.
 
All of you guys omitted the obvious.
Forget about charisma, beauty, tactics, and so on .... if you're not able to smile genuinely and I really mean GENUINELY (with a real feeling in your heart) then you're bound to pass as a creep.
 
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@static Thanks for the tips. I'll try more standing back. How about shaving? Is it better as a foreigner to be completely shaved? Also, taking a uniqlo model wouldn't make me look a bit Japanese-ish? Is that a good thing? (I've genuinely been wondering about that; I do like these looks though)

Btw reading the https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/favourite-anti-pua-methods.12593 thread was interesting, I can't answer in the topic but I'd find her methods to avoid contact disrespectful and inefficient. You know you have a voice and can tell when you're not interested, no need to avoid contact in weird ways and make your journey as well as the man's unconfortable for a big while, thinking he's supposed to get the 'hint'. Perhaps that's what happens in the street, but I really don't feel good against this kind of reactions. It's also pretty killing from women because they imply any attempt at hitting on any girl is socially unacceptable and that you're unworthy of a second of her time, instead of it being wrong *now* with her (I'd wish those girls never got approached anymore the next time they're single, just like they behave).

Recently again twice I did a compliment and walked away, and at first she seemed nice, then looked at me and expressed disgust. This morning too, I asked to the girl standing next to me if the coming train was going to Shibuya at the station and at first she answered with a smile and right away she took that same creep face (without me adding anything). I told another compliment to another one in the street about her funny design shoes while walking and got no answer and a patronizing face. I might be reassured that walking to girls in the street is not creepy in itself, but the way I do it apparently is, so I'll stop the massacre for a while.

-If you're getting scared reactions, talk to them from slightly farther away - maybe at arm's length if it's a crowded area, always make sure you're seen before heard, and be relaxed yourself. Talk calmly and deliberately, not wildly or too erratically. Japanese helps as well, and you may need to repeat what you said to open as she may not have even heard it.
Ok that I just don't understand. See how quickly girls (usually) walk? How do you get seen by them without stopping them, not bumping in the others if you keep walking ("free path anxiety"), sometimes get her to remove her headphones or stuff, find something fun to tell her that is not related to her looks, while needing to go for numbers? Do you stop them? What kind of things can you tell to a walking girl whose you know only the looks and hasn't got that much different from the others than …… well, looks? Should I go English? My Japanese is definitely lacking impact, or might even be creepy (like the typical "do you want to go play with me?" which sounds like a pedophile from J-boys trying to hit on EU-girls) but as I said on another topic I hate doing this exercise in English :(

I wonder whether that's an area where I can improve: I usually have good results when I really like the girl (there's something special about her and I feel it and it becomes sincere). But then I can wander a whole hour and not be sure to find one of those.

Do you have videos of people doing it? There's a world of difference between what I'd get in France or here, so there must be some (even slight) differences between how it's done here. Thanks a lot for your answers in any case!
 
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@static Thanks for the tips. I'll try more standing back. How about shaving? Is it better as a foreigner to be completely shaved? Also, taking a uniqlo model wouldn't make me look a bit Japanese-ish? Is that a good thing? (I've genuinely been wondering about that; I do like these looks though)

Btw reading the https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/favourite-anti-pua-methods.12593 thread was interesting, I can't answer in the topic but I'd find her methods to avoid contact disrespectful and inefficient. You know you have a voice and can tell when you're not interested, no need to avoid contact in weird ways and make your journey as well as the man's unconfortable for a big while, thinking he's supposed to get the 'hint'. Perhaps that's what happens in the street, but I really don't feel good against this kind of reactions. It's also pretty killing from women because they imply any attempt at hitting on any girl is socially unacceptable and that you're unworthy of a second of her time, instead of it being wrong *now* with her (I'd wish those girls never got approached anymore the next time they're single, just like they behave).

Recently again twice I did a compliment and walked away, and at first she seemed nice, then looked at me and expressed disgust. This morning too, I asked to the girl standing next to me if the coming train was going to Shibuya at the station and at first she answered with a smile and right away she took that same creep face (without me adding anything). I told another compliment to another one in the street about her funny design shoes while walking and got no answer and a patronizing face. I might be reassured that walking to girls in the street is not creepy in itself, but the way I do it apparently is, so I'll stop the massacre for a while.

Gonna try breaking this down into basic points:
1) There are types where being different from a girl's world can be useful, making you stand out from the crowd, also called "peacocking." This can be a useful technique when the environment calls for it. The reason I recommend you tailor your fashion more towards the way Japanese people dress is because right now, girls are thinking you're creepy. What you need to work on right now is building comfort with the girl, and by appearing outside of her impression of men is something that won't accomplish this. Most of the time you can accomplish this by adjusting your style of game over time, you can adjust your fashion overnight and *help* the problem a little bit by spending a little bit of cash and time. Remember, you can pick up a girl looking like a hobo if your game is strong enough, but that doesn't mean you should try it.
2) Shaving is kind of up to you. What's important is whether you look hygienic and clean. Facial hair isn't bad, but if you look like a scraggly mess, then it can be a turn off to girls. Personally, I shave everything but not because of girls, I shave down because summer time is humid as hell, and body hair traps odor and sweat making me go through more shirts than i really want. It has the added bonus of keeping me fresh smelling for longer though :).
3) Think about yourself when you're walking around and someone asks you a question. You're not paying attention to everything, then all of the sudden you've got someone trying to get your attention. You probably don't even hear what the other person is saying initially, and you get that daze before you're actually aware of them. Empathize with the girl in that regard. Figure that she probably didn't even truly comprehend what you said and she's just answering on autopilot. Picture this conversation string:
You - "Excuse me, does this train go to Shibuya?"
Her - "Yea"
You - "Yea, I was thinking of opening a pizza shop inside the station."
Her - "Yea-... wait what?"

She's not really aware of what you're saying until she processes it a few seconds later. Thing is, your words are largely meaningless. Picture your words as a vehicle, simply carrying your emotions and true feelings to the girl. This is how most women communicate, by reading sub-communications. Guys translate words, we're more "logical" in that respect. Of course if you say something like "I'm going to rape you at the next alleyway," her logical brain is going to understand that and react accordingly. We're talking in the context of normal communication. If you're nervous, she's nervous. If you're feeling creepy, she'll think you're creepy, etc.

Now, what you're typing here as far as what you've said doesn't appear to be anything wrong, I think we've all opened girls in the same way, yet I don't think I've ever gotten a "creepy" reaction from the girl. It tells me something is going on with the WAY you're saying it, or what you're feeling while you say it, or the way you're posture and body language are coming off to the girl, thus why most of the advice I gave you was focusing on body language and appearance. Without knowing more about the non-verbals, I can't really advise you much beyond that.


Ok that I just don't understand. See how quickly girls (usually) walk? How do you get seen by them without stopping them, not bumping in the others if you keep walking ("free path anxiety"), sometimes get her to remove her headphones or stuff, find something fun to tell her that is not related to her looks, while needing to go for numbers? Do you stop them? What kind of things can you tell to a walking girl whose you know only the looks and hasn't got that much different from the others than …… well, looks? Should I go English? My Japanese is definitely lacking impact, or might even be creepy (like the typical "do you want to go play with me?" which sounds like a pedophile from J-boys trying to hit on EU-girls) but as I said on another topic I hate doing this exercise in English :(

I wonder whether that's an area where I can improve: I usually have good results when I really like the girl (there's something special about her and I feel it and it becomes sincere). But then I can wander a whole hour and not be sure to find one of those.

Do you have videos of people doing it? There's a world of difference between what I'd get in France or here, so there must be some (even slight) differences between how it's done here. Thanks a lot for your answers in any case!

If you want the nerdy explanation, you want to look at what's called "pacing and leading" in NLP. Basically, what you're doing is you start by matching her pace and her aura, then once you're in sync, you start leading it in a different direction. In practice, walk fast, talk to her while you're matching her pace. Once she's interested, start slowing down your pace and she will match your pace until you come to a stop and start talking. Aliester Crawley, in an interview once, walked next to a guy for a block or two, matching his pace. Eventually when he had *control* over the other guy's aura, he stumbled and tripped, and the guy he was shadowing also stumbled and tripped. Back then, we called this "magic." Now, we applied terms to it in NLP. There are countless examples of this, as this is the foundation of hypnosis and other mind-hacks.

As far as not bumping into people, if you walk standing straight and not looking at people in front of you, most people will avoid bumping into you. Don't look at people, look past people. Another book about the art of invisibility says that if you look someone straight in the eyes, their natural reaction is to look away, meaning they're not going to perceive you and will look away, thus bumping into you. If they're the ones to do this, they'll usually take action to move (Usually, this doesn't work 100% of the time =P)

As for language, speak whatever you're comfortable with. Hell, I'd use French ( I think you mentioned that you're french) and see what happens. One of the dumbest approaches I do that usually gets a reaction is that I know how to say "Do you speak <insert language>" in probably 8 different languages. So I'll start in English, then say in Japanese "Oh, you don't speak English, do you speak Japanese?" She ignores. Then I'll switch to spanish, then to french, then to chinese, then to german and just go down the list. A lot of girls will eventually get interested or laugh their asses off. Say something in French and if a girl responds with "Sorry, I don't speak English" (as I said above, they're not actually hearing what you're saying, they're answering on autopilot and will assume foreigner = English), you can say in Japanese "That wasn't English, that was French!" which will usually catch her a little bit off guard and get you a few seconds of attention. After that, continue the conversation in Japanese. Tell her your Japanese isn't very good, laugh a little in an embarrassed way, and she'll possibly give you a little leeway in your Japanese lacking impact. Remember man, you speak your native language, English, Japanese and whatever else you speak. You're talking to some 20 year old who probably failed English class, and even if she did pass, she probably couldn't put together a sentence to save her life. Have some confidence in yourself and what you've accomplished. I mean, you're a foreigner living in another country. Most people in the world never move more than 100 miles from where they were born! Most people in the world don't even have a passport, much less have multiple stamps in it. Give yourself some credit for that! Don't think about it in terms of pumping your ego, but give yourself credit for having more bravery to up and move to a completely foreign country, into a culture completely different to your own; that takes some serious cajones.
 
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@static

You write like a very intelligent person and I'm curious about your use of the word "aura" and reference to Aliester Crowley in the passage above.

I think you are using the word aura in a metaphorical sense, as a way to talk about the multilayered dynamics of human communication, and not literally referring to a wispy cloud of spiritual colors that occultist and mediums claim can be found hanging over humans.

Although I wouldn't consider myself a PUA, I am a student of the art of persuasion and I use techniques very similar to those described in the Nampa threads.

Much of what we communicate with each other isn't verbal and I suspect that it even goes beyond body language and includes pheromones. Maybe that is what you meant by, "this was once called magic."

Back to the topic of approaching women on the street in metropolitan Tokyo.

People who are moving about a busy city don't normally interact with people on the street, unless there is a good reason. There is an unspoken protocol that governs when a person interacts with another on the street or in the subway.

I would say that trying to interrupt a woman while she is in transit is going to be extremely difficult. Usually only hawkers and touts do that sort of thing and their failure rate is incredibly high.

So I can understand why the OP is coming across as creepy.

I would suggest trying to create a situation where the female initiates conversation with him. As in having a cute doggie on a leash, or sounding out the words of a Japanese sign in a very childlike manner.

I've used the latter in pub environments and coffee shops successfully a few times.

If the OP is trying to approach women who are in full stride on their way to the metro station, I think he is choosing a very poor situation. There are many other situations in a big city where people stop to take a break and it is okay to interact with them.

Interrupting them walking down the block is a bit rude and, yes, even creepy.

Maybe be some PUAs can operate in that difficult environment, but it sounds like he is picking the wrong type of encounter for his abilities.
 
@static

You write like a very intelligent person and I'm curious about your use of the word "aura" and reference to Aliester Crowley in the passage above.

I think you are using the word aura in a metaphorical sense, as a way to talk about the multilayered dynamics of human communication, and not literally referring to a wispy cloud of spiritual colors that occultist and mediums claim can be found hanging over humans.

Although I wouldn't consider myself a PUA, I am a student of the art of persuasion and I use techniques very similar to those described in the Nampa threads.

Much of what we communicate with each other isn't verbal and I suspect that it even goes beyond body language and includes pheromones. Maybe that is what you meant by, "this was once called magic."
The point I was making is that magic and science aren't necessarily different things. To me, magic is simply things science has not yet been able to explain. My impression of aura's if you put them in laymen's terms, you're talking about the vibe a girl is giving off. However, there's an anime called Psychic Academy that visualizes it as the colored wispy cloud that you're describing. Both concepts are not mutually exclusive IMO. We can perceive these things if we pay attention to them, and the way psychology describes the system we recognize them as the reticular activation system (RAS). Again, in laymen's terms, our brains can perceive every single detail in the world, but our conscious mind only processes maybe 10% of that, and everyone perceives a different 10%. If you're attracted to white girls, and I'm attracted to asians, you might notice a white girl and say "Damn, check out that fine girl!" and I'll say "What fine girl?" If you can hack your RAS to control what you perceive, then maybe you can get hyper aware of even more elements about people. Noticing when a person is angry based on body language. Noticing a girl wearing white pants as an indication that she's not on her period, all these kinds of things.

Whether you believe its some wispy aura or a hyper-awareness to a girl's body language is largely irrelevant though, when you can train yourself to start picking up on these queues, you can have better "target selection" for lack of a better term, thus increasing your success rate on the streets.

Back to the topic of approaching women on the street in metropolitan Tokyo.

People who are moving about a busy city don't normally interact with people on the street, unless there is a good reason. There is an unspoken protocol that governs when a person interacts with another on the street or in the subway.

I would say that trying to interrupt a woman while she is in transit is going to be extremely difficult. Usually only hawkers and touts do that sort of thing and their failure rate is incredibly high.

So I can understand why the OP is coming across as creepy.
There is zero doubt that picking up on the streets is difficult. However, like I mentioned earlier, I've approached hundreds of girls on the street and never been perceived as creepy. Maybe uninteresting to the girl, maybe annoying for breaking their routine, but never creepy, assuming creepy is meaning like a pervy stalker type creepiness. I've never gotten looks of disgust or anything even resembling that. It's all about how you do it. There's a guy in our group that would ride the Yamanote line at 8-9pm and just picked up girls on the train. Socially, this is a big no-no, especially in Japan, yet he always got some degree of success from doing it. It could be something as simple as a girl standing in the corner next to the door, and my friend opened her by putting his arms on the posts around her, smiling and telling her that he's protecting her from getting shoved into.

One thing you can take from the basis that society doesn't like gaming girls off the street, you understand that yourself, and make your approaches reflecting that understanding. My friend on the train did something like that, yet to every passerby, he was doing exactly what that girl's boyfriend would be doing, thus making the general assumption that he must be her boyfriend. When you start talking to the girl, talk like you're already her boyfriend and it can put her mind at ease in respect to social opinion of those around her. Good PUA is invisible to surrounding people.

I think the difference between you and me is that while we both understand the reasons why it's not acceptable, you step back and change venues, where as I'll looking for a way to make it acceptable, if that makes any sense.

I would suggest trying to create a situation where the female initiates conversation with him. As in having a cute doggie on a leash, or sounding out the words of a Japanese sign in a very childlike manner.

I've used the latter in pub environments and coffee shops successfully a few times.

If the OP is trying to approach women who are in full stride on their way to the metro station, I think he is choosing a very poor situation. There are many other situations in a big city where people stop to take a break and it is okay to interact with them.

Interrupting them walking down the block is a bit rude and, yes, even creepy.

Maybe be some PUAs can operate in that difficult environment, but it sounds like he is picking the wrong type of encounter for his abilities.

I do agree with a lot of what you've said here, but I wouldn't discourage him from giving up his pursuit. One of my favorite quotes from Ronnie Goldman was "You keep doing what you've already done, you're gonna get what you've already got." If you're satisfied with going to bars and getting girls that are there, by all means, go for it. Personally, I'm not. From purely a numbers point of view, when you go to a bar, you're limited by the few hundred people who happen to be there at that time. By going outside to the streets, you've multipled your potential number of "targets" to thousands if not tens of thousands of potential girls. Furthermore, it depends on the kind of girl you're attracted to. Maybe you're interested in 30 year old tennis teachers. She's likely not going to be rocking out at 4 in the morning at a Shibuya night club, hell, she might not even drink alcohol for health reasons! Maybe you're into hostesses. They're not at the bar getting drunk, because they're at work, and their job is drinking. They're the girl who's going shopping in broad daylight. How about the college kid who's too broke to afford 5-10kY for a night out? She'll likely be going for a walk in the park, or something like that.

Yes, they're more difficult to get, but the more you expose yourself to the environment, the better you get at attracting girls off the streets. Furthermore, those girls you do talk to on the streets typically are going to be more genuinely who they are as a person rather than a girl who is drunk off of both the environment and alcohol. The other famous quote of "Go to bed at 2 with a 10, wake up at 10 with a 2," to me is not just about appearance, it can be reflective of personality and connection too. Then when you're at a bar or a club, in my experience, you get a higher flake rate when it comes to having a date with the girl. You're lucky if she even remembers talking to you at the club. Basically, the only way you're gonna get something is if you do take her home for the night and wake up together. It's for the above reasons, that I typically don't do clubs for finding girls anymore. I prefer bars and lounges, and the streets.

The fact that the OP is approaching during the day, from another gamer's point of view, I think is awesome. It is really difficult to start off on the hardest stage of the game, it takes a special kind of motivation and strength to do that! I'd never dream of telling a gamer "No you idiot! You're supposed to start on easy mode, you're not gonna beat it!" when he plays Diablo on nightmare mode for the first time.
 
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Re-reading this, because I'm bored at work.. Gonna give you specifics here:
sometimes get her to remove her headphones or stuff,
Usually, when I say something and she looks at me, I'll make a gesture of taking headphones out of my ear. A lot of the time she'll do this.

find something fun to tell her that is not related to her looks, while needing to go for numbers? Do you stop them?
One of my inspirations was a French guy I was at a bar with one night. While we were walking out, he went over to the girl at the bar while we were paying and said "Wow, you're beautiful." She smiled but didn't say anything. He followed up with "In my culture, it's a sin not to tell a beautiful girl that she's beautiful" and she just about melted on the spot. However, he owned what he said. I've tried the same lines and fallen flat on my face because its not who I am. I started to pay more attention to Zan Perrion, who is like this and I had a bit of a mental shift where I started truly appreciating how much work girls put into their appearance. Dieting, time to put on make up, fashion, etc, etc, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with appreciating that and complimenting a girl on it. Being genuine is king!

What kind of things can you tell to a walking girl whose you know only the looks and hasn't got that much different from the others than …… well, looks?
Thing is, you can give appreciation, but that doesn't mean you're sold on her necessarily. The way I look at it is that I'm approaching her because I think she's beautiful, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to go anywhere with her. My feelings are that here's someone who's interesting, do they have substance that I'm interested in? My time is valuable, and I'm not going to waste my time on a pretty face. I will however pursue a pretty face who is also well-traveled, educated, strong willed, humorous, etc, etc, and I'm approaching her to find these things out.

In a line, don't put the pussy on a pedestal!

I wonder whether that's an area where I can improve: I usually have good results when I really like the girl (there's something special about her and I feel it and it becomes sincere). But then I can wander a whole hour and not be sure to find one of those.

Here's the thing. There's always room for improvement. One of the main focuses of the PUA industry now IS self-improvement. Exercise more, eat better, explore new hobbies, read, learn new skills, etc. That doesn't mean you're not already awesome though!

As far as when to approach, this is a mix of different things. Part of me says you should only be approaching girls you're interested in. Yet another part of me thinks that you need to approach more girls to 1) get more practice and 2) get more in tune with what you really like in girls. I've dated dozens of different types of girls and girls that I was originally attracted to ended up being not really what I was interested in, and vice versa. Other times I dated girls and it turns out that there was a good reason I didn't enjoy dating em. Get exposure to a wide variety of girls and educate yourself on a wide variety of girls so you have a broader view of the world, but be careful not to fall in the trap of viewing girls as objectives or as practice. She's still a human and should be treated as such.
 
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Ok I read the rest of the anti-PUA topic and impregnated of it, and it seems like what I'm doing wrong is to approach women who don't display any sign of interest. And yeah that can be bothersome. When someone bothers you, even if you can clearly tell them no, it doesn't mean that all is fine because you won't see him/her anymore. You've bothered her, so it's prob incompatible with PUA but I'll stick to it and refrain. Not by fear, just because that's my convictions.
I'm still very willing so it's only a temporary back off, until I figure how to make it acceptable just like @static says (very nice btw, thanks!!). I believe I evolve more by trying to figure how to do something hard until the perfect time to do it, rather than doing an easy thing repeatedly (which work for other people too, btw). And sometimes why not do the easy thing too.

Back to constructive stuff, @Sinapse told somewhere that he was hitting the streets in places where there are the most touts and nampa'ers in the world. Where is that? I must say I very much enjoyed nanpa'ing at 11pm in Shibuya the last time. Girls were receptive and while I got to know my place (not very high for now) my attempts were playfully taken.

I'd still love to see once how it's really done in Japan with my own eyes. So far, my best attempts is to wait for an eye contact or a shy sign of interest (I'm not bad in reading people I realize, and my "full successes" back then in Japan were mostly when opening a mixed group and adapting to the atmosphere, then turning it to something slightly different that encompasses everybody including me. Eventually, almost inevitably the cutest girl of the group would get interested in me personally and that was it; like she was "protected" by the others until I was accepted) and then if I'm attracted too I'd just figure a way to naturally and shy'ly approach her. Thinking about it, this is almost opposite to what any PUA would teach you, at least in Europe. But it glows with sincerity: you're special and I know why, I want you nothing bad and am not entitled into anything, but I still think we might get along, care to clear this awkward moment by some greetings? Guess that's why it worked sometimes. But then I would never hit on hostesses or whatever, just cute and "true" on themselves, girls. I feel like now I'm going for the too sexual type and playing a game I don't understand nor am I even sure I want to play. Truth is, I'm not a sex bomb. I'm just a repented nerd who escaped a well-written destiny of biological dead end, and I'm looking for a girl with whom to go as far as the situation will allow.

As for language, speak whatever you're comfortable with. Hell, I'd use French ( I think you mentioned that you're french) and see what happens. One of the dumbest approaches I do that usually gets a reaction is that I know how to say "Do you speak <insert language>" in probably 8 different languages. So I'll start in English, then say in Japanese "Oh, you don't speak English, do you speak Japanese?" She ignores. Then I'll switch to spanish, then to french, then to chinese, then to german and just go down the list. A lot of girls will eventually get interested or laugh their asses off. Say something in French and if a girl responds with "Sorry, I don't speak English" (as I said above, they're not actually hearing what you're saying, they're answering on autopilot and will assume foreigner = English), you can say in Japanese "That wasn't English, that was French!" which will usually catch her a little bit off guard and get you a few seconds of attention. After that, continue the conversation in Japanese. Tell her your Japanese isn't very good, laugh a little in an embarrassed way, and she'll possibly give you a little leeway in your Japanese lacking impact. Remember man, you speak your native language, English, Japanese and whatever else you speak. You're talking to some 20 year old who probably failed English class, and even if she did pass, she probably couldn't put together a sentence to save her life. Have some confidence in yourself and what you've accomplished. I mean, you're a foreigner living in another country. Most people in the world never move more than 100 miles from where they were born! Most people in the world don't even have a passport, much less have multiple stamps in it. Give yourself some credit for that! Don't think about it in terms of pumping your ego, but give yourself credit for having more bravery to up and move to a completely foreign country, into a culture completely different to your own; that takes some serious cajones.
Thanks for that. It's very much true. Plus funny. This is obviously the kind of approach to try on a girl that's standing I guess, right? (or perhaps walking slowly)

Part of me says you should only be approaching girls you're interested in. Yet another part of me thinks that you need to approach more girls to 1) get more practice and 2) get more in tune with what you really like in girls.
Your comment reassures me. I accept it's good to broaden your horizons, sometimes. Since this topic turns almost philosophical and I love that stuff, I'm a good believer of that "good star" or "destiny" thingies. Concretely, things happen when they should, but you have to give them a chance, small as it be. If something is extremely likely to happen, like say 50%, even if you try once a month you'll likely have it succeed within 3 months, with very minimal effort. If things are likely to fail, you might try 10s of times and only get frustration, further lowering the chances for it to succeed, plus if you ever manage to get it you'll have to grasp at it more than reasonable. I'm tempted to believe this applies to pick up too, so a little try can go a long way (or not). But if you believe your chances to be small (because you don't feel attracted by that particular girl) no need to overdo it, just give that shot to potentially prove you wrong once in a while. Even with girls you like, there are periods where you're more or less likely to seduce them. Sometimes it just won't work, some other times your chances are so high that you could walk to them telling proot and get laid within 5 attempts (I'm serious!). It's a question of internal state though at that point, and I heard there are ways to manipulate that, but haven't explored that yet. On my side, in the past I've used pick up and socialization to prove me wrong when I would feel worthless and help get back on my feet.
But I believe at that point now the problem is different. I've effectively been confirmed to have a bad approach and possibly being unattractive so I need to move on. While repeated practise eventually leads to figuring things out as long as you are genuinely willing to do it and living each attempt fully as an experience (I don't agree that Ronnie Goldmann quote in that context), I admit wanting to avoid rejection as much as possible.

Other times I dated girls and it turns out that there was a good reason I didn't enjoy dating em. Get exposure to a wide variety of girls and educate yourself on a wide variety of girls so you have a broader view of the world, but be careful not to fall in the trap of viewing girls as objectives or as practice
Fully right. Hell it's good to read that. I've actually managed to get past a period where I had become a mysoginistic nerd, into believing in the humanity again, and be indulgent with girls again. I shouldn't push too hard and be trapped again.

It could be something as simple as a girl standing in the corner next to the door, and my friend opened her by putting his arms on the posts around her, smiling and telling her that he's protecting her from getting shoved into.


He followed up with "In my culture, it's a sin not to tell a beautiful girl that she's beautiful" and she just about melted on the spot.
I have the same friend haha, it's so good when done with a totally accepted thick french accent. I can't make it work either though.

Thing is, you can give appreciation, but that doesn't mean you're sold on her necessarily. The way I look at it is that I'm approaching her because I think she's beautiful, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to go anywhere with her. My feelings are that here's someone who's interesting, do they have substance that I'm interested in? My time is valuable, and I'm not going to waste my time on a pretty face. I will however pursue a pretty face who is also well-traveled, educated, strong willed, humorous, etc, etc, and I'm approaching her to find these things out.
Ok but concretely? If you open with a compliment, she'll often feel on a pedestal (especially the sexy type of girl), and then I get this condescending look which makes me hate her right away, and I can't continue. So probably I need something else, don't I? I'm bad at getting anything to come up if I'm trying, but then I just have nothing naturally either :D

I'll continue answering to the other points, but I still have work to do ;)
 
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A couple things for you, first and foremost, I don't think you should wait for any indicators of interest. More often than not, you'll miss the more subtle ones and use it as an excuse not to approach a girl that you're interested in.

Ok but concretely? If you open with a compliment, she'll often feel on a pedestal (especially the sexy type of girl), and then I get this condescending look which makes me hate her right away, and I can't continue. So probably I need something else, don't I? I'm bad at getting anything to come up if I'm trying, but then I just have nothing naturally either :D

I'll continue answering to the other points, but I still have work to do ;)

Here's what I want you to do for homework.

Make a list of 10 things about a girl that you like, NOT related to her looks at all. Things like "Passionate about her hobbies in a real and almost fanatical way" or "has been to at least 4 different countries for longer than 3 days at a time, 2 of those countries must be in a different hemisphere," Things like that.

Now, when you approach your next girl, try and find out if the girl you're talking to fits at least 7 of your points without directly asking her. If you can't get to 7, you do not have permission to have sex with her.

I think if you actually have a list of things you genuinely want to know about the girl, it'll really help you in terms of not knowing what to say after you compliment her. You can also do other simple things like look at the kinds of shirts she's wearing. Is she wearing a band shirt? Make an observation about it and find out her favorite song, you know stuff like that. Failing that, make other comments. Talk about the weather, talk about your day, etc.

Game on, GO!
 
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One of my Korean friends used to buy a different stuffed animal and carry it around with him when we'd go out to party spots in Seoul.

Usually big ones too! Once he showed up with this ridiculous giant teddy bear and it worked like a charm. He had girls coming up to him all night.

He'd usually give it away at some point during the night, but he took them into bars and restaurants and would get a chair for his giant panda as if it was just another one of the guys. He started dating this beautiful waitress because of that bear, he asked for a table for three.

Although the whole place was laughing and staring, he really made it work with his charisma.

Sometimes he'd wear a backpack and have the head sticking out as if he was giving it a piggyback ride.

It depends on what a person is comfortable with doing.

I'm a believer in having some kind of prop to break the ice, but what really sells it is the follow up conversation. Not going straight for their number or extending an invitation to tag along right away, but spending a few minutes chatting.

He was also determining if he wanted their number or even wanted them to come drink with us.

Big conspicuous stuffed animals aside, he was just a cool, fun guy. The bear got their attention, but he did the rest.

I'm sure a large stuffed animal would get women smiling at you on the subway or a street corner, but you'd still have to have a charming talking game.
 
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A couple things for you, first and foremost, I don't think you should wait for any indicators of interest. More often than not, you'll miss the more subtle ones and use it as an excuse not to approach a girl that you're interested in.
Okay. But hey, where is the limit then? If you "should" approach girls, that you're either very attracted to or not so much, whether they showed you interest or not, etc. that means you would virtually approach everybody all the time :D

Make a list of 10 things about a girl that you like, NOT related to her looks at all. Things like "Passionate about her hobbies in a real and almost fanatical way" or "has been to at least 4 different countries for longer than 3 days at a time, 2 of those countries must be in a different hemisphere," Things like that. Make a list of 10 things about a girl that you like, NOT related to her looks at all. Things like "Passionate about her hobbies in a real and almost fanatical way" or "has been to at least 4 different countries for longer than 3 days at a time, 2 of those countries must be in a different hemisphere," Things like that. Now, when you approach your next girl, try and find out if the girl you're talking to fits at least 7 of your points without directly asking her. If you can't get to 7, you do not have permission to have sex with her.
I didn't do anything today (had a date that turned well, but found out she hadn't ever done it yet so I gave up on her; I've still got a lot of fear based on girls overly-attached) but yesterday I finished a date (that didn't end up that bad; she got my attempt to bring her home but I knew from the beginning that she had work early the next day, and she brought it up, but otherwise she was good with it) in Shibuya and before going back home by foot I stopped by Hachiko and pet him… and one or two other girls there. I confirm this is SOOOO the place to sarge girls. There's not even any challenge as far as approach goes. Then the shields might be a bit higher than on the street, and it's like always a matter of finding a match, which didn't happen yesterday (she might accept to give out her number without a strong connection on day time and not in Shibuya, but that's good since you shouldn't ask for a number unless you have a very strong connection and will to see her again).

And why I said that is, while I didn't do my homework I thought about it when I approached that gorgeous girl browsing on her phone, and she answered plainly; you know, not like I'm interested but go on, try entertain me. I thought "what do I like in girls" and that gave me ideas right away: playing with my French identity, getting to know playfully how many languages she speak, how tolerant she was with my Japanese, etc. Wasn't great, but definitely there's huge power in that.

Tomorrow I have a pretty packed day but I might try again to approach 2~3 people in the Shinjuku station, or (biiiiig challenge for me) in the Lumine just to see if/how I can get less creepy reactions.
<ad time>I'd really love to hang out with someone experienced here in Tokyo btw. If you as a visitor happen to be interested and think we could get along, just poke me</ad>
 
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Sorry I saw it too late. I stayed with friends who visited me and ended up not in Shinjuku.