Need some advice regarding relationship with japanese girl\woman

[ShikkokuNoSenshi]

Ok, now you sound like a major assholes. Excuses? They are not sexually attracted to you period. But appearantly girls are only good for sex to you, thats why you stop communication with them.
I was going to write that "convince her to have sex" comment up to the Japanese culture thing. Yes, maybe for some Japanese women the situation setting has to be perfectly right. But it seems like you are really like that creepy comedy show guy who recently got accused of keeping pushing for sex with a girl while she politely tried to refuse him. Read the story. See, girls regret that shit later. But i bet you dont care.

You said it yourself, you have no intention of marrying her, yet you wouldn't mind leading her on a bit.

You are truely ruthless. Yes, girls are not really queueing up to be with a guy who sees them as fuckdolls that he doesn't want to commit to yet doesn't want to pay for play. You have to bring something to the table. Save yourself the onsen booking and use a cheap sex service if sex is all you are after, it wont come out more expensive and it gives a guarantee.

If looking for girls, yes they are not gonna queue up for sex with you and we dont know what you look like so hard to help you with that but maybe change your behavior from this "nice guy" shit to being actually nice.

You have understood my phrase about friendship in so wrong way that I have never imagined.
Firstly, I have deep respect for women. This comes from single mother education and from fact that I have 5 female cousins with which I have spent probably half of my childhood free time. Secondly, I always try to count separate people as intelligent beings which are seeking for their happiness and are honest in that (well, my life experience telling me that this is actually very wrong and I should stop with this).
So coming back to topic. I have a lot of female friends and with some of them we consider each other very close friends. And I am ok to be good friends with those who refused me. Actually I have one such girl. But if they refused me honestly without milking me to the fullest before that. When I was in university there were 2 girls that was clearly hinting me that they are interested in me. That time I wasn't charmed by them so as soon as I understand their intention I have approached them and told them that I am not interested in them (this comes from my deep respect to women, I could use them till I get bored and then just throw away as, probably, most of men on this planet would happily do). Also I was in same situation. Girl to which I was hinting about my interest have approached me and told that she already has a guy she truly loves and that I should abandon my hopes (we still friends now, though do not communicate much after I came to Japan). Such approach I appreciate and such people I am very comfortable to be friends with.
Now we come to main story regarding abounded friendship. After several awkward relationship, where girls were ok to go out and happy to receive presents from me but always refused next step in our relationship, I had I meet one girl. I didn't like her that much at start. But she was something special. She was calling me out, she was proposing interesting timespending, she was taking the lead when I was doubting. And in less then 2 months from lingering interest I fell in love with her. I started buying her presents, call for dates and of course trying to hint for next step in relationship. And she was ok for everything except for next step. After another 3 months of my soul struggling I asked her directly. And her response just killed one of my lives. She told me that she was doing everything for fun, that she just broke with her previous boyfriend and she just wanted somebody to spent time with. Then I asked her if she understood my intention and that I was for some deep relationship. She told that she understood that immediately after I took initiative into my hands. Then I asked why then she was toying with me. And she replied that my presents were actually charming and my chivalry behavior saved her a lot of money, so she didn't want that to stop. And then she told that phrase - "I was thinking of you as my best friend. Can we remain as that?" That day I was actually dead. She just toyed with me. Just to milk money from me and my time and attention. She used my feelings as short leash. And she didn't cut my hopes because she understood that actual friendship is equal i.e. I will not always pay for her, I will not buy her presents every week, I will not be there for all her whims.
So now if any girl telling me that "she just want to be a friend" not after I start hinting for serious relationship but after several months of such hinting, I always see that greedy smile on her face telling me - "As an ATM you was pretty nice". I hate such girls to the core of my soul. They just see somebody's feelings as a leash that will allow them to milk guys with feelings.
Now about marriage. I am not that kind of guy that would merry anybody just for some own benefits. Since my father left family when I was 6 I perfectly know the pain that my mother felt. I would never inflict that purposely to any woman. So I count marriage really serious. I am planning to merry with the girl I am comfortable to live together till we last.
About fuckdolls. This brought me most of headache since this statement is on different side of our galaxy from what I actually am to. For me sex is not just put my dick in soft hole and cum. Modern sextoys can be even better in this aspect then random woman. For me sex with woman - is stream of feelings and emotions. If I would see that woman wants to have sex with me, is getting orgasm from my cock then I would have orgasm much-much stronger then when I "put my dick in soft hole and cum". This is what attracts me in real sex. This is what I seek spending so much time building this "feelings" between me and woman. And that is why I am so reluctant just to pay for sex, because all those emotions I am seeking for are replaced by mere greed. Maybe I am wrong with last statement, but all "escort girls" I was speaking with in my life, was doing that just for money and actually they almost hated sex with their clients. For me it is almost worst outcome possible. I really hope that there are girls who do this for actual sex and really enjoys all process with payment as nice bonus, but I have to still meet such girls.
I hope I clarified all misunderstanding you got. If you have some other insult to throw in my face - do it. I will explain where you are wrong.

 

[ShikkokuNoSenshi]

I think it has nothing to do with the fact you were raised by a single mother,
In my opinion you should start by the beginning and accept to be friend with girls, once you understand they are people too you can behave a normal way with them and have the chance to be appreciated as more than a friend by some of them.
friendship is a real life relationship as well and you're lucky this one want to be friend with you. so use that to learn more about real life relationship.

I explained about friendship with girls in post above. And actually I have a lot of girls that are just my good friends.

 

[Frenchy]

You have understood my phrase about friendship in so wrong way that I have never imagined.
Firstly, I have deep respect for women. This comes from single mother education and from fact that I have 5 female cousins with which I have spent probably half of my childhood free time. Secondly, I always try to count separate people as intelligent beings which are seeking for their happiness and are honest in that (well, my life experience telling me that this is actually very wrong and I should stop with this).
So coming back to topic. I have a lot of female friends and with some of them we consider each other very close friends. And I am ok to be good friends with those who refused me. Actually I have one such girl. But if they refused me honestly without milking me to the fullest before that. When I was in university there were 2 girls that was clearly hinting me that they are interested in me. That time I wasn't charmed by them so as soon as I understand their intention I have approached them and told them that I am not interested in them (this comes from my deep respect to women, I could use them till I get bored and then just throw away as, probably, most of men on this planet would happily do). Also I was in same situation. Girl to which I was hinting about my interest have approached me and told that she already has a guy she truly loves and that I should abandon my hopes (we still friends now, though do not communicate much after I came to Japan). Such approach I appreciate and such people I am very comfortable to be friends with.
Now we come to main story regarding abounded friendship. After several awkward relationship, where girls were ok to go out and happy to receive presents from me but always refused next step in our relationship, I had I meet one girl. I didn't like her that much at start. But she was something special. She was calling me out, she was proposing interesting timespending, she was taking the lead when I was doubting. And in less then 2 months from lingering interest I fell in love with her. I started buying her presents, call for dates and of course trying to hint for next step in relationship. And she was ok for everything except for next step. After another 3 months of my soul struggling I asked her directly. And her response just killed one of my lives. She told me that she was doing everything for fun, that she just broke with her previous boyfriend and she just wanted somebody to spent time with. Then I asked her if she understood my intention and that I was for some deep relationship. She told that she understood that immediately after I took initiative into my hands. Then I asked why then she was toying with me. And she replied that my presents were actually charming and my chivalry behavior saved her a lot of money, so she didn't want that to stop. And then she told that phrase - "I was thinking of you as my best friend. Can we remain as that?" That day I was actually dead. She just toyed with me. Just to milk money from me and my time and attention. She used my feelings as short leash. And she didn't cut my hopes because she understood that actual friendship is equal i.e. I will not always pay for her, I will not buy her presents every week, I will not be there for all her whims.
So now if any girl telling me that "she just want to be a friend" not after I start hinting for serious relationship but after several months of such hinting, I always see that greedy smile on her face telling me - "As an ATM you was pretty nice". I hate such girls to the core of my soul. They just see somebody's feelings as a leash that will allow them to milk guys with feelings.
Now about marriage. I am not that kind of guy that would merry anybody just for some own benefits. Since my father left family when I was 6 I perfectly know the pain that my mother felt. I would never inflict that purposely to any woman. So I count marriage really serious. I am planning to merry with the girl I am comfortable to live together till we last.
About fuckdolls. This brought me most of headache since this statement is on different side of our galaxy from what I actually am to. For me sex is not just put my dick in soft hole and cum. Modern sextoys can be even better in this aspect then random woman. For me sex with woman - is stream of feelings and emotions. If I would see that woman wants to have sex with me, is getting orgasm from my cock then I would have orgasm much-much stronger then when I "put my dick in soft hole and cum". This is what attracts me in real sex. This is what I seek spending so much time building this "feelings" between me and woman. And that is why I am so reluctant just to pay for sex, because all those emotions I am seeking for are replaced by mere greed. Maybe I am wrong with last statement, but all "escort girls" I was speaking with in my life, was doing that just for money and actually they almost hated sex with their clients. For me it is almost worst outcome possible. I really hope that there are girls who do this for actual sex and really enjoys all process with payment as nice bonus, but I have to still meet such girls.
I hope I clarified all misunderstanding you got. If you have some other insult to throw in my face - do it. I will explain where you are wrong.

Hmmm ok but currently you pay for « not sex » (and no love either) which sucks even more. My advice would be simply to look for someone else.

 

[ShikkokuNoSenshi]

Ok time for some tough love my friend.



The reason this happens is because you are not communicating honestly. In other words, you are not moving the interaction forward sexually, which is the man's job (at least by default). Instead, you (and many other guys, sadly) are trying to BUY access to her vagina by investing TIME (6 months WTF??) and MONEY (presents, dates, onsens) and hoping to slip into a sexual relationship under these pretenses, like a Trojan horse of niceness. This is why girls hate "nice guys" (who actually have some pretty horrible beliefs if you think about it... that time and money mean a man is entitled to her vagina) and why the friendzone exists, because guys are taught to not risk offending the girl by making moves and being forward and instead hope that their time, money and being "nice" will be enough to turn her on (it won't be). That is unfortunately how both society and often women themselves say the dating process should take place, however it is NOT how it actually works. If a woman tells you this is how it's supposed to be done, don't believe her. They will always maximize the amount of stuff dudes buy them / perks of being a girl and minimize their amount of responsibility (which, to be fair, guys would do as well if they were in as high demand as girls).

Instead, you need to make your intentions known by communicating honestly. What this means is making a move on her if you find her attractive, talking to her as a man does to a woman, not as friends or language exchange buddies. Even if she turns cheek or rejects your move, she knows where you stand and will at least respect you for making the move and having balls, even if she's not interested. If she meets you again after you've made a move, she knows you will continue to do so and BAM you're out of the friend zone. You have to be willing to accept the fact she might not be into you, of course. In addition, respect her boundaries and it might take a couple dates, but it should never take six months of relaxed dating before you even attempt to move things towards sex. At that pace, she probably doesn't even think you find her attractive!

She needs to KNOW how you view her and that you are NOT after friendship. In other words, you are getting mad at her for "friend zoning" you but actually, it is you who friend zoned yourself so the only one you should be getting triggered at is yourself. Women are like mirrors and they reflect back at you the energy you bring into the relationship. If you don't like the way you're getting treated by many women, you need to change YOUR behavior, not rage at the women.

As for the onsen... be careful of dropping money on girls you haven't hooked up with. They certainly like it, but it doesn't "buy" you sex or anything like that, and they'll actually respect you less for it usually. Sad, but true. Re: noise from your room during sexytime... who cares?

Hm. Some good ideas for rethinking my approaches. Actually it would be cool to speak privately. I feel I would get some good leads to solve my problems. If you reside in Tokyo or close - how about to meet for bear or two and speak?

 

[MikeH]

She just toyed with me.

That's your take on the situation and based on the wrong reading thinking something else than friendship is coming out of the relatioship. She was having fun time spending it with a nice guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe I am wrong with last statement

Yes.

 

[ShikkokuNoSenshi]

That's your take on the situation and based on the wrong reading thinking something else than friendship is coming out of the relatioship. She was having fun time spending it with a nice guy. Nothing wrong with that.

What was wrong is that she clearly understood that I was for relationship. It was clear to her all time. But she specially didn't turned me down because otherwise she would not be able to milk me. If you think that this was just some misunderstanding from my side then I wish you to find a girl, that you will think as THE ONE. But in the end she will tell you that she treats you as bank ATM to withdraw cash.

 

[ShikkokuNoSenshi]

You said it yourself, you have no intention of marrying her, yet you wouldn't mind leading her on a bit.

And one small additional clarification regarding marriage. I am not the person which thinks that relationship can be only marriage. I am totally ok with other form of relationship if both sides are satisfied. Just merriage for me is like telling person that from now on I do not need nobody except her. And still I didn't meet such person.

As for relationship overall I think best type is sexfriends. You have some good time together, you have some great sex together. Everybody is happy and nobody is bothering each other with uncomfortable topics for other half.

 

[Frenchy]

What was wrong is that she clearly understood that I was for relationship. It was clear to her all time. But she specially didn't turned me down because otherwise she would not be able to milk me. If you think that this was just some misunderstanding from my side then I wish you to find a girl, that you will think as THE ONE. But in the end she will tell you that she treats you as bank ATM to withdraw cash.

I actually agree with you on this. Lived with this type of woman way too long, MikeH is just a lucky (or smart) bastard to not know what it means .

But you know what?
it’s OK to say No sometimes , it’s even very liberating. If she asks you or expects you to pay something again just for the privilege of her « friendship » then just say No, leave her with the bill or just half of it , and move on.

 

[MikeH]

I actually agree with you on this. Lived with this type of woman way too long, MikeH is just a lucky (or smart) bastard to not know what it means .

It's not like she robbed the ATM, just withdraw some money out of it. You need a password to use an ATM. Just make that password spell "sex" and everyone is happy.

The bigger mistake is though to think someone is THE ONE. You seem to have a pattern to get stuck with a girl and then trying to make her to be like you want.

it’s OK to say No sometimes , it’s even very liberating. If she asks you or expects you to pay something again just for the privilege of her « friendship » then just say No, leave her with the bill or just half of it , and move on.

This is what OP needs to learn too.

 

[Sinapse]

Hm. Some good ideas for rethinking my approaches. Actually it would be cool to speak privately. I feel I would get some good leads to solve my problems. If you reside in Tokyo or close - how about to meet for bear or two and speak?

While I do like bears, I also get a lot of requests from people who want to meet up so usually can't make time outside of nanpa/PUA meetups, which I do organize occasionally(about every 3 months or so). However you can check out my website (in my signature) or Youtube to see more of my thoughts regarding dating.

 

[warubuta]

So much this.

It's better, it's easier and it's so much more fun to all involved.

Not for me. I enjoy waking people up to things they don’t understand, are afraid of, don’t know about, think they don’t like etc. For example, getting people to eat their first raw oyster is a blast. There is nothing better than converting a woman who doesn’t really like or understand sex into a depraved slut. It’s my favorite. But then again, I’m a pig.

 

[MikeH]

There is nothing better than converting a woman who doesn’t really like or understand sex into a depraved slut. It’s my favorite.

Well, maybe. But by the time you are gone through with that I have been a depraved slut with a dozen of girls who like sex from the beginning.

 

[Wwanderer]

Instead of trying to convince someone to have sex, its better to find someone who's actually game for it.

So simple, so obvious, so often not understood by those in lust...

-Ww

 

[roots reggae]

Not for me. I enjoy waking people up to things they don’t understand, are afraid of, don’t know about, think they don’t like etc. For example, getting people to eat their first raw oyster is a blast. There is nothing better than converting a woman who doesn’t really like or understand sex into a depraved slut. It’s my favorite. But then again, I’m a pig.

Well, maybe. But by the time you are gone through with that I have been a depraved slut with a dozen of girls who like sex from the beginning.

Whose side to take?

Tough choice...

Please provide more witty platitudes.

P.S. to the OP-ShikkokuNoSenshi. My advice for you is to visit Sinapse's website and make plans to attend his next meetup. I believe he sends out a notice in the Nampa/PUA thread.

Even though you are looking for a more serious relationship than most taking his seminars, I think you would probably benefit from the confidence building aspects as well as acquiring useful social skills.

Best of Luck and please keep posting.

 

[warubuta]

Really thank you for this great advice. After I read it I was wondering why I never came up with such easy and elegant solution. Also can you tell more about troubles such type of J women can case? I imagined some standard annoyance problems from ex but you definitely meant something more extreme....

Well I am sure some people here will cry foul with what I have to say, but here goes anyway. Your typical J woman thinks she must get married before she is 30. This is because after 30 most men will begin to wonder what is wrong with her. Why isn’t she married? After 30 she will have an increasingly difficult time finding an acceptable man. It is a fact of Japanese life. Women here have a Sell By date like a carton of milk. So if you think you can casually date a woman in the danger zone of 25 to 35, no matter what she might say to the contrary, she is Hell bent to get married.....to you! Even if you agree up front with her that you are not getting married, it doesn’t matter. She will agree to this in desperation because she thinks she can convince you to marry her once she starts sucking your dick and making you Hokkaido cream stew (your favorite). In the future when you try to exit the relationship, she will likely go off the rails. What you agreed beforehand will have been completely forgotten. You and you alone fucked up her chance for marriage and ruined her only chance for happiness. You wasted her time. If it hadn’t been for you, she would already be married to a successful Japanese doctor, dentist or Mitsubishi Shoji bucho. She would be pregnant and living in a luxury apartment in Ginza. It’s all your fucking fault! What might she do then? Attempt suicide, try to stab you with a fruit knife, disrupt the tranquility of your living situation, cause problems for you at your place of work, contact all of your friends and family and tell them all kinds of crazy shit, etc. Some of us have experienced some of these traumas. Not me though. Well maybe a little bit, but that was a long time ago and the Buta is now a wiser and more careful pig.

 

[MikeH]

Some of us have experienced some of these traumas. Not me though.

Obviously me neither. And I dodged the knife, barely, but I did. And moreover later she told she didn't really aim her throw at me.

 

[Sudsy]

Attempt suicide, try to stab you with a fruit knife, disrupt the tranquility of your living situation, cause problems for you at your place of work, contact all of your friends and family and tell them all kinds of crazy shit, etc. Some of us have experienced some of these traumas.

Ah..... I remember her.

She was the one that finalized the lesson about sticking my dick in crazy.

 

[usualblue]

It might turn out that she has a dick. There was a movie about that. Watch out!

I did manage to touch her pussy a few times; just no actual sex :-(

 

[Durg50]

Well I am sure some people here will cry foul with what I have to say, but here goes anyway. Your typical J woman thinks she must get married before she is 30. This is because after 30 most men will begin to wonder what is wrong with her. Why isn’t she married? After 30 she will have an increasingly difficult time finding an acceptable man. It is a fact of Japanese life. Women here have a Sell By date like a carton of milk. So if you think you can casually date a woman in the danger zone of 25 to 35, no matter what she might say to the contrary, she is Hell bent to get married.....to you! Even if you agree up front with her that you are not getting married, it doesn’t matter. She will agree to this in desperation because she thinks she can convince you to marry her once she starts sucking your dick and making you Hokkaido cream stew (your favorite). In the future when you try to exit the relationship, she will likely go off the rails. What you agreed beforehand will have been completely forgotten. You and you alone fucked up her chance for marriage and ruined her only chance for happiness. You wasted her time. If it hadn’t been for you, she would already be married to a successful Japanese doctor, dentist or Mitsubishi Shoji bucho. She would be pregnant and living in a luxury apartment in Ginza. It’s all your fucking fault! What might she do then? Attempt suicide, try to stab you with a fruit knife, disrupt the tranquility of your living situation, cause problems for you at your place of work, contact all of your friends and family and tell them all kinds of crazy shit, etc. Some of us have experienced some of these traumas. Not me though. Well maybe a little bit, but that was a long time ago and the Buta is now a wiser and more careful pig.

Its still common practice here for a guy to have to pay compensation money to a girl when they break up if theyve been in a long term relationship.
Its like ‘im old now, ive wasted a few remaining years of perky tits and good looks on you cos i thought I could bail on my life and just have you look after me when i snare you into marriage, so i now need compensation for the fact that didnt happen’

 

[Frenchy]

So simple, so obvious, so often not understood by those in lust...

-Ww

So... Wwish comment.

 

[Frenchy]

Ah..... I remember her.

She was the one that finalized the lesson about sticking my dick in crazy.

Ah..... I remember her.

She was the one that finalized the lesson about sticking my dick in crazy.

To be fair, this type of behaviour is far from being a Japanese (or even female) monopoly.

 

[Sudsy]

To be fair, this type of behaviour is far from being a Japanese (or even female) monopoly.

Mine was Puerto Rican.

 

[Wwanderer]

Your typical J woman thinks ...

Imo and experience, life gets a lot better and more interesting when you learn to recognize and seek out atypical people in many many different contexts (i.e., not just dating). A first step in that direction is to stop assuming the people you meet and deal with are typical. Instead, allow them to demonstrate whether they are typical or not and in what ways.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

Imo and experience, life gets a lot better and more interesting when you learn to recognize and seek out atypical people in many many different contexts (i.e., not just dating). A first step in that direction is to stop assuming the people you meet and deal with are typical. Instead, allow them to demonstrate whether they are typical or not and in what ways.

-Ww

Agree completely professor W. But sometimes we like to talk in generalities and use words like ‘typical’ to describe a group of people with shared characteristics. Why do you assume this indicates that we don’t share your same appreciation for the exotic?

 

[Wwanderer]

Agree completely professor W. But sometimes we like to talk in generalities and use words like ‘typical’ to describe a group of people with shared characteristics. Why do you assume this indicates that we don’t share your same appreciation for the exotic?

You seem to be looking for criticism, debate, conflict or something where there is none. I have zero opinion or assumptions about what you (and other people I don't know at all) appreciate or don't appreciate. Why would I? And fwiiw, I often speak in generalities too and use words like "typical" frequently. Nearly everyone does. That said, I like to remind people (including myself) that such generalizations are of limited accuracy and often lead people to expect and thus get the ordinary and typical when they could have done better. It is an obvious truth but also one that is frequently hard to keep in mind.

That's all.

-Ww