Netflix: Tokyo Idols

[Chewie]

So who is your favorite?

Kamei Eri and Michishige Sayumi of Morning Musume, unfortunately both now retired but it was fun while it lasted. I actually liked all the members up till the 6th gen. Don't know who the kids are in the current lineup of Morning Musume, don't really care either. The fun members are gone. The Hello Morning show is no more.

Moved on to AKB48 where I didn't really have a favorite, but if I had to pick than it would be Oshima Yuko and Kawaei Reina respectively. Oddly enough, one of their smartest girls along with their 'dumbest'. Both of them are incredibly entertaining to watch.

As to why I'm a fan, well...if you have the patience to watch 1+ hour of Mechaike's Bakajo Special (don't worry, there are subs), maybe you might just figure out why.


Stopped being a fan when a certain torrent tracker went down making it hard to follow their TV shows. I'm sure they're running against somewhere else but I can't really be bothered to follow the scene as closely anymore.

I judge idol otaku craziness based on the amount of money spent for idol merchandises and services. How much money you spent yearly for your idol?

In total over the years, rather more than the session it costs me at Don Juan but not more than the total I have spent for P4P in Japan.

Amount spent on conventional J-pop and other non idol-related activities in Japan (but not counting P4P) far exceeds what I've spent on idols.

That's why I say I'm 'relatively sane'.

 

[Durg50]

It really is no different from any other expensive hobby like Legos, for example. Yet the Lego Collector is often simply thought of as eccentric but the idol fan is thought of as a weird pervert who might be a pedophile, and that simply isn't true and quite an unfair perception.

Um, isnt because the lego guy likes legos whereas the idol fan guy likes little girls? I dont see how the perception is unfair.

 

[Hofmeyer]

You can't seriously compare someone who spends the majority of his free time with the minutiae of plastic bricks with someone who spends the majority of his free time with the minutiae of the lives of children.

The cum handshakes, the jizz covered toys and photos and "love" letters that get sent in to the girls aren't exactly a small amount. The girls aren't even safe with their own agencies. Take the former assistant manager of AKB48 who was arrested after they discovered hundreds of hours of voyeur footage of the underage members changing backstage. Or the near lawsuit against Nogizaka46's managers by the parents due to their consistent failure to fire a manager who was constantly sexually harassing them. In the end he just got transferred away from them.

You sound like a good guy, but I'm sorry to say you're part of a not very large majority.

I could go on and on about this due to my own morbid curiosity leading me down the bowels of 2chan and other sites over the years, but frankly the images of the shit those poor kids have to deal with is making me feel ill and I am genuinely about 10 minutes away from throwing up.

 

[Chewie]

Um, isnt because the lego guy likes legos whereas the idol fan guy likes little girls? I dont see how the perception is unfair.

Its because you are assuming that they are also lusting after them or thinking about the girls sexually. For the most part, that really isn't true. It really is no different from...say...liking a puppy. They're cute. That's all there is to it.

Look, I know what your concerns are. I get it, but here's the thing - if these guys really want to lust after a young girl, there are easier ways to do it. They can go on online bulletin boards where they can indulge in enjo kosei and date or even have sex with actual high school girls. There are also plenty of risque content featuring young girls in Japan that doesn't require you to have fork out a ton of money for CDs and concert tickets.

There are far easier and rather more discreet ways to be a pedo in Japan. They don't have to do something that costs so much more money and where every contact they can have with a girl is in a supervised fashion, and the most they get out of it is a handshake and a brief exchange of words.

There are far less healthy ways to be obsessed with young girls than to be an idol fan.

You heard of Perfume? If you haven't, here you go.

I think they're awesome and they have a ton of international fans. They're pretty old for idols...err, not really idols, but some might consider them as such. I think they're about hitting 30?

Now let's look at a younger group. This video kind of caught my eye when I was in Japan as it was playing all over the place. Almost made me want to be a fan again.

Its almost the same thing except with less electronica and no light show, but because the girls are younger suddenly its wrong? Err...excuse me if I don't get it.

 

[Chewie]

You can't seriously compare someone who spends the majority of his free time with the minutiae of plastic bricks with someone who spends the majority of his free time with the minutiae of the lives of children.

The cum handshakes, the jizz covered toys and photos and "love" letters that get sent in to the girls aren't exactly a small amount. The girls aren't even safe with their own agencies. Take the former assistant manager of AKB48 who was arrested after they discovered hundreds of hours of voyeur footage of the underage members changing backstage. Or the near lawsuit against Nogizaka46's managers by the parents due to their consistent failure to fire a manager who was constantly sexually harassing them. In the end he just got transferred away from them.

You sound like a good guy, but I'm sorry to say you're part of a not very large majority.

I could go on and on about this due to my own morbid curiosity leading me down the bowels of 2chan and other sites over the years, but frankly the images of the shit those poor kids have to deal with is making me feel ill and I am genuinely about 10 minutes away from throwing up.

What I'm saying is that its small compared to the number of safe interactions with their fan base. I'm not denying that creeps exist. I just think its hugely unfair that much of the fan base is thought of as creeps from the actions of a few.

You lurked in 2chan. I actually met a whole bunch of them in one of my trips to Japan. Plus I've attended idol events.

You say I sound like a good guy. Well, like I said - the only difference between me and a large portion of the fan base is how much of our time and resources we are willing to spend. I just happen to have other hobbies to pursue as well. Oddly enough, this also involves plastic bricks. Yes, I collect Legos too...well, I dabble...same as with idols.

Did you watch that Tokyo Idol documentary? What do you think of that Rio fan? I can identify with him. I just don't want to devote all my time and money into a single idol, that's all. That's about the only difference that separates me from him. Oh, that and I kinda stopped being an idol fan...but only in that I no longer am interested in spending money on them. I still watch music videos, TV shows, etc. whenever they pop up on streaming sites.

But as for the industry exploitation...all I can say is that's the ugly side of showbiz in general. Its not exclusive to Japan. Look at what's happening in Hollywood recently.

 

[jhingy567]

Ok so if most fans wouldn't go as far jizzhshakes or cum teddies, still how many are actually jacking off to (or on) their favorite idols' pics?

I still don't really understand the appeal myself but I guess we all have our own guilty (...or not so guilty) pleasures.

 

[Chewie]

Ok so if most fans wouldn't go as far jizzhshakes or cum teddies, still how many are actually jacking off to (or on) their favorite idols' pics?

I still don't really understand the appeal myself but I guess we all have our own guilty (...or not so guilty) pleasures.

A whole lot less than you might think. It kinda ruins the resale value of those collectibles, y'know?

You might find this hard to believe, especially considering the nature of this forum, but most idol fans don't think of the girls in a sexual fashion because it completely ruins the fantasy. Its like fapping to my My Little Pony.

The reason why there are all those jizz handshakes and cum teddies is the exact same reason why My Little Pony porn also exists. In every community, there are outliers, but its not like everyone is on it. In fact, genuine 'bronies' (I believe that's the term for it) are generally shocked and disgusted by it and would prefer that it doesn't exist. But what can they do?

If you don't understand the appeal behind idols...well, its the same as how I don't understand the appeal behind My Little Pony myself but I have no intention on judging bronies for it.

 

[jiraiyajiraiya]

bronies are furries right?

 

[TAG Manager]

bronies are furries right?

No, that’s just My Little Pony fans.

Furries are furries.

 

[Durg50]

My Little Pony porn also exists.

Oh ffs it actually does i just checked on pornhub. Wtf is wrong with people?

 

[TAG Manager]

I’m totally not in this scene but I get the legit fan base as well as the super sketchy jizz crazed fan base, there is a difference and as usual... the more sketchy group gets the most attention and totally ignores the rest of the normal fan base who understand boundaries and aren’t sexually attracted to the ‘cuteness’ factor of some of these younger groups.

Well.. anyway... money is a helluva drug.

 

[Chewie]

bronies are furries right?

Here we go with being judgemental again. Heck, I'm not even a member of their community and even I can provide some info on them if only because I'm not so quick to judge.

Firstly, not all bronies are furries. Some of them might possibly be, but a good number of them simply enjoy the cartoons without needing feeling a need to dress up in a fur suit.

Secondly, even the actual furries aren't doing actually in it for sexual gratification either.

You might want to go read that article on Cracked about the experiences of some guy (not a furry himself) who decided to attend a furry convention.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-i-learned-attending-furry-convention/

And I'm gonna quote a relevant portion of that article right here cos what he says does actually apply with most idol fans in general.

It's generally poor writing to tell people that a story isn't actually all that interesting, but that's the case here. There are no orgies or hordes of unhygienic people who believe that they have the souls of polar bears and are being oppressed by humanity. The reality of any subculture is rarely as interesting as the myths that are spread about them, and furries never really got the chance to establish their own myths.

Like any fandom, furries are not without issues. I heard complaints about immature drama, bullying, and the treatment of women in a mostly male fanbase, among other concerns. But furries are, in general, as happy and satisfied as anyone, and a convention boils down to a bunch of friends having fun and blowing off steam. If you think that's weird, literally all you have to do is ignore it.

We idol fans really aren't what the internet or all those documentaries make us out to be. But unfortunately, the real story is also kinda boring, so people would rather focus on the negatives so there's a more interesting story to tell.

 

[jiraiyajiraiya]

I am asking not judging.
Now I'm judging why the hell someone get mad asked such question.

 

[DJnLJ]

Guy likes female teen music group with rotating females = creepo.

Girl likes male teen music group with rotating members = fangirl.

It is just the double standard the west uses to look at these things. Can you imagine if guys adult guys showed up to a movie with teenage female actresses wearing shirts with the girl's picture on them and carrying signs that said they wanted to have a baby with her?

And yet no one batted an eye when women old enough to be the actor's mothers did this for Twilight.

 

[User#8628]

A lot of stalkers claim to be madly in love with their victims and want to "save them" by way of knife wounds. Often it just takes a message saying "you are no longer allowed at events because of your behaviour" or the like and suddenly she's "betrayed" them and she needs to be punished.

John Lennon also got shot by a fan, right?

 

[Durg50]

Guy likes female teen music group with rotating females = creepo.

Girl likes male teen music group with rotating members = fangirl.

Id say it depends on age. A teenage guy liking akb48 seems natural to a lot of people and not creepy. A 40 year old liking them seems creepy.

As for the rest of your point; yes men and women are held to different standards because we are different. Men and women being treated the exact same doesnt always = fairness or equality.

In the example you gave about Twighlight I think actually the women who show up are viewed by many (evidently you and I included) as losers, and their behaviour is a bit weird, whereas the men doing the same thing are ‘creepy’. I dont see anything wrong with that.

 

[jhingy567]

Dear diary: today I learnt about 'bronies' and 'furries'.

 

[BB0523]

Different strokes for different folks.... I went to a place like an amusement park and there was a "girl idol" band playing and the majority of dudes I saw were teenage boys... but on the outer rim of the group were older dudes looking like they were in their 50's. I know Japan can be very "immature" in some of the things they do... but for me personally, it's just a bit odd to see such a "mature" fan of such young performers... Maybe it takes them back to their happy place when they were teenagers.... or maybe they just are filling up their "spank-bank" who knows... who cares.... Justify your interest if you feel the need, judge the others if that's your thing.. but in the end... when you get down to it... we as humans all have some oddity that others would find offensive, strange, or bizzare... We are members of a "sex forum" so think of all the haters that would love to pile us up in a heap and torch us because we "objectify" women.... I think we are not as the media or sexually frigid portray us to be, most (not all) have an affinity and respect of women which far exceeds many "normal" men... let alone some of the dudes who truly objectify women and see them as only a cum dumpster or worse... obviously IMO ....

 

[WeebmanAU]

encountered this today after i browsed this thread
yall are a bad influence

 

[Chewie]

I am asking not judging.
Now I'm judging why the hell someone get mad asked such question.

Sorry, its just that its rather exasperating why that we get pre-judged all the time. It can really get on your nerves after a while. Like the audience reaction after watching the documentary.

Id say it depends on age. A teenage guy liking akb48 seems natural to a lot of people and not creepy. A 40 year old liking them seems creepy.

As for the rest of your point; yes men and women are held to different standards because we are different. Men and women being treated the exact same doesnt always = fairness or equality.

In the example you gave about Twighlight I think actually the women who show up are viewed by many (evidently you and I included) as losers, and their behaviour is a bit weird, whereas the men doing the same thing are ‘creepy’. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Fair enough, I guess. If we're creepy in the same way that everyone else who also has a weird hobby is also creepy, than so be it.

 

[Sudsy]

Secondly, even the actual furries aren't doing actually in it for sexual gratification either.

Ummm.... one word: Yiffing.

 

[jiraiyajiraiya]

Ummm.... one word: Yiffing.

Now I remember why I associate furries with negativity. This brings up memories from dial up era, with web comic with a lot of that word.

 

[impish]

Different strokes for different folks.... I went to a place like an amusement park and there was a "girl idol" band playing and the majority of dudes I saw were teenage boys... but on the outer rim of the group were older dudes looking like they were in their 50's..

Personally I don't care for idol bands. That said there is nothing wrong with a person of any age liking the music of someone from another age group. There are plenty of people in the US who are 40+ who go see bands whose members are 18-23+. They go because they like the music.

Older people who go to watch idol bands because they actually like the music are not the problem, and some of those guys you saw at the amusement park could have actually stopped to watch for the music. I have friends back home who love "Baby Metal", they like it because it brought something new to metal. (even if they don't know what they are singing about half the time). They are also the kind of people who would beat the shit out of someone for approaching an underage girl. Don't judge unless it is obvious they are wacking off in their pants at the show...

 

[MikeH]

I have friends back home who love "Baby Metal", they like it because it brought something new to metal.

That is the band, and I am using the word in a very liberal settings, that I have the most problems with. It is obviously totally produced thing and that alone would make any real metal fan to die inside.

But it is produced so bloody well, and the girls are so cute and the contrast so hard that it makes me wanna go and suggest my lady friends we start making babies like those girls.

 

[impish]

That is the band, and I am using the word in a very liberal settings, that I have the most problems with. It is obviously totally produced thing and that alone would make any real metal fan to die inside.

But it is produced so bloody well, and the girls are so cute and the contrast so hard that it makes me wanna go and suggest my lady friends we start making babies like those girls.

I myself can't stand them, and generally agree with everything you just said.