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Paper or plastic?

SugoiBoy

SugoiBoy

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One thing that I noticed about grocery shopping in Japan is the widespread use of plastic bags. Paper bags, which are less damaging to the environment, seem to be used less in Japan than in some other developed countries.

Of course, having a reusable tote bag is even better, but I usually forget to bring one with me.
 
You should move to Hawaii. http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Arti...66/015-Bag-Tax-Hits-Oahu-Starting-July-1.aspx
No plastic bags less than 10 mils can be used after 1/1/2020. And they can't give you paper bags for free either. Stores HAVE TO charge you $0.15/bag from 7/1/2018 if you want one.
I have reusable tote bags, like you when I remember to bring them. But those get nasty inside after awhile from the raw meat, veggies, milk, and other wet crap you buy.
One study found that 12% of peoples reuseable bags had E.Coli bacteria in them. https://www.delish.com/food-news/news/a55894/reusable-shopping-bags-health-threat/
 
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We changed to tote bags a couple of months ago too. Stores don't have plastic at all here now. Takes a bit of getting used to. I still forget sometimes.
 
You usually have to buy plastic bags at the casher in large supermarkets. It typically costs 2 yen per piece. I see the use of plastic bags has visibly been reduced over the last 10 years even in Japan.

Environmental impact of shopping bags has been debated for many years, and some actually discussed that there would be some advantages for lightweight high-density polyethylene bags (what we know as plastic bags) over paper bags.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...erbags-a-review-of-the-bags-available-in-2006
 
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2C0FE08F-3757-4B42-9075-67FB205A9804.jpeg

How about folding bags? I have quite a few of them and use them for grocery shopping and carrying a pair of heels. They’re pretty easy to carry in my purse. (I know this example looks like the lady is effortlessly carrying a dead person)
 
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Coda87 said:
You should move to Hawaii. http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Arti...66/015-Bag-Tax-Hits-Oahu-Starting-July-1.aspx
No plastic bags less than 10 mils can be used after 1/1/2020. And they can't give you paper bags for free either. Stores HAVE TO charge you $0.15/bag from 7/1/2018 if you want one.
I have reusable tote bags, like you when I remember to bring them. But those get nasty inside after awhile from the raw meat, veggies, milk, and other wet crap you buy.
One study found that 12% of peoples reuseable bags had E.Coli bacteria in them. https://www.delish.com/food-news/news/a55894/reusable-shopping-bags-health-threat/
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they banned plastic bags in my home country too. people were upset at first but then got used to bring their grossery bag.
they give paper bags for veggies and meat but it's not a good idea when you put a lot in them.
 
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User#8628 said:
Gross about those tote bags getting dirty. But cant they go in the washing machine?
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It’s recommended to wash them but also recommended just like having seperate cutting boards for meat, and vegetables you should have seperate bags for meat and “other”

My aunt who’s a hippie just always has a insulated cool bag for her meats and then regular cloth bags for everything else.
 
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ShowaJidai said:
As in most things that activists get involved in - they care less about what the numbers show, it's all about the feelings. Besides, the science is settled (something you rarely hear real scientists say)
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Yea the enviro-Nazis like to fight for porpoises much more than sharks because porpoises have a permanent smile and are playful. Sharks on the other hand have jagged teeth, cold eyes and the added bonus of potentially biting off your leg. I am kind of ambivalent re porpoises, but I usually order sharks fin soup if I see it on the menu. It tastes good and, as far as I am concerned, it’s eat or be eaten.
 
DanniCake said:
It’s recommended to wash them but also recommended just like having seperate cutting boards for meat, and vegetables you should have seperate bags for meat and “other”

My aunt who’s a hippie just always has a insulated cool bag for her meats and then regular cloth bags for everything else.
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I keep my meat in a separate bag.
 
TheScientist said:
Thats been debunked for ages. Turns out it takes lots more energy to produce them as well as all the effluents from paper manufacturing.
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SugoiBoy said:
Any sources for that?
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Actually it is much harder than one might naively think to determine which of two alternatives is worse for the environment for several reasons: The data is often not easily available. The calculations are often not easily done. And most importantly, it often comes down to an "apples and oranges" comparison.

It is the latter problem that is relevant in the paper vs plastic case. @TheScientist is correct in his statement above, afaik, but then the question is whether you care more (or the environment cares more) about energy consumption and water pollution or about cluttering the landscape and oceans with plastics which will linger for centuries or more making things look ugly and causing problems for wildlife, like sea turtles with plastic straws stuck in their nostrils for example. One can have opinions on such matters (whether a person or a sea turtle), but it is a matter of judgement not fact.

Other cases are even more ambiguous. Electric cars reduce smog and pollution of the air in cities where people breathe it but also (greatly) increase the total energy consumption of cars per mile...and thus their contribution to atmospheric CO2 associated with global warming. Recycling trash reduces the consumption of raw materials but requires more collection trucks driving around using energy and emitting CO and CO2 etc. Manufacturing solar panels reduces carbon emissions from energy production but causes really foul water pollution. You get the picture...

Environmentalists tend to avoid discussing such issues (at least in public) for fear that people will simply throw up their hands in confusion and frustration and conclude that minimizing one's environmental impact is hopeless and not worth the effort.

-Ww
 
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Even if you bring your own bag, every single item you buy (especially in bakeries) has its own plastic bag. Very infuriating.
I still prefer paper bags because they degrade much more faster.
 
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The fundamental problem with pollution and the use of non-renewable resources is that the costs cannot be fully known and therefor cannot be accurately priced in the marketplace. If the real long term environmental impacts of a paper bag vs a plastic bag were fully understood, they could be converted into dollar costs and people could pay, or not. But since we don’t really know the true impact we don’t know the price. The environmentalists say the price is much higher than we think, and show you a picture of a cute little seal being strangled by a plastic bag. The industrialists say it is lower than we think and martial all kinds of stats to support their arguement. Who knows the truth? But for me, I try to minimize my use of bags as much as possible. There is no great hardship in doing so. I also sold my Porsche and drive a kei car now and I try to keep my carbon footprint as low as possible. The Buta loves the Great Outdoors. He is a card carrying Patagoniac and a Snow Peak Geek. He likes to wallow in the sands of Shimoda and roll around and grunt with his lady in a tent in the mountains of Amagi.
 
DocMcStuffins said:
But if you haven't tried it, it's a bit like jamming a used condom back in its wrapper.
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I stopped using my Baggu for the same reason. Its outer bag is so tight and I'm lazy.

Another foldable tote, Shupatto, seems to be nice. I've just forgot buying it in Japan. Probably what is being marketed as Marna Easy Foldable Compact Bag is the same one.
 
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