PUAs gotta push those numbers up

LOL some variation of this pops up in foreign newspapers every 3 months or so and it's always bullshit. But yeah, sure, if you ask the Japanese guy who hits soaplands or the girl who makes spare money at the deai cafe if they're virgins they'll probably say yes. Meanwhile every fetish you can imagine is available for some price and clearly there's a market for it.
 
Any seen this article yet...

Obviously it is always great to link sex in every article for more clicks but cannot read this without a chuckle. Like young people not having sex is the primary reason for declining birthrate? The reporters obviously haven't heard about condoms yet.

Of course it's better to blame the young guys for "not bothering" to ask a girl out. I mean the reasons behind low birthrate couldn't be uncertainties about getting a decent job, or being able to be there for your family if you have one, or being able to pay your kids through the college, or having a daycare place for them before that. No, those would look bad for the politicians, it must be the young people who are to blame.
 
Obviously it is always great to link sex in every article for more clicks but cannot read this without a chuckle. Like young people not having sex is the primary reason for declining birthrate? The reporters obviously haven't heard about condoms yet.

Of course it's better to blame the young guys for "not bothering" to ask a girl out. I mean the reasons behind low birthrate couldn't be uncertainties about getting a decent job, or being able to be there for your family if you have one, or being able to pay your kids through the college, or having a daycare place for them before that. No, those would look bad for the politicians, it must be the young people who are to blame.
Agree but the uncertainty about getting a job and money issues aren't real factor although they are used as excuses IMO, people in countries with higher poverty and unemployment rate are making more children. It seems like the more a country is developing the less children people have.
I think it's more about people getting married later than before and women getting more interested in having their own career that reduced the birthrate not only in Japan but in the whole world. Japan isn't different than other countries, it's simply a little ahead.
 
Writing an article about "lack of young people having sex" being the cause for falling birth rates is like blaming YouTube for falling viewership for broadcast news.

First, young people in Japan (18 - 28) are not the main group having kids. (Yeah, I know they said "18 -34" but who looks at a 33 year-old and thinks "young"?) Go to any kindergarten here and you'll see the parents are more like 35-45. And overlooking the factors for financial stability - average income vs. ability to purchase a residence, career stability, etc. - is like pretending that people can put their kids in suspended animation until things get better financially.

And then there's the issue of women staying in careers longer before having kids (ie: after they are no longer "young" - what this article is tearing its hair out over).

The idjits who wrote this article are either uninformed (incompetent) or expect their readers to be (and remain) uninformed. Either way it's insulting.
 
It seems like the more a country is developing the less children people have.

Yeah, but also when I was a tad lad the main problem in all the news was we are all going to die because unsustainable population growth. And now when we found condoms and are all like got that fixed they come and say you need to make more babies or we'll all go to hell. I mean come on and give us a fucking break.

Also when a country is less developed you can still afford more kids. Again when I was a kid everyone was pretty poor so it didn't make any difference as long as you were able to feed them. Now in Japan it takes more money than anyone I knew back them ever imagined having to be able to afford to live in a decent house and pay your one kid through college.
 
Yeah, but also when I was a tad lad the main problem in all the news was we are all going to die because unsustainable population growth. And now when we found condoms and are all like got that fixed they come and say you need to make more babies or we'll all go to hell. I mean come on and give us a fucking break.

Also when a country is less developed you can still afford more kids. Again when I was a kid everyone was pretty poor so it didn't make any difference as long as you were able to feed them. Now in Japan it takes more money than anyone I knew back them ever imagined having to be able to afford to live in a decent house and pay your one kid through college.
In the less developed countries there are classes and the upper classes have less children than the lower classes. It's the same country and the same cost of life but still people with more money make less children.
 
1) Japan has terrible demographics. Some of the worst in the world. Aging and long living population that isn't being replaced. This matters because the tax base is made up of working people. i.e. Who is going to pay for the medical care of the elderly? Japan is absolutely a timebomb in this regard because they don't have children and hate immigration.

2) Absolutely, industrial countries typically have have lower than replacement rate population growth (You need 2.1 babies for every 2 people to maintain a population level) but they make up for that with immigration. So while the US (1.8) has less babies than they need, they bring in immigrants that bolster numbers. Japan, on the other hand, is deeply xenophobic and is at like 1.4. You can't be anti-immigrant, not have babies and have an aging population. It's a recipe for disaster.

3) Yes, pop growth is a problem worldwide, but that's on a macro level. On a micro level a place like Japan is in serious trouble if the population skews older and isn't working. i.e the last thing any country wants is a bell curve with lots of 60-80 year olds (who are expensive, suck up resources and produce little tax revenue).

4) Japan basically has full employment so I am not sure it's fair to argue that economic worries are the reason people aren't having children.

5) It's entirely possible that the range of sexual paid services on offer is a result of people's inability to foster relationships rather than evidence everything is fine. i.e. I have no psychology training but it stands to reason, in economic terms, that needs are fulfilled by the market. We don't have maid cafes or paid dating clubs or blowjob bars where I live. It seems logical to me that Japan's development of such thing is a direct result of their fucked up non-relationships in their personal lives.

6) I am not saying there aren't factors relating to this (job uncertainty, women having careers) that don't play a part...but I find it unlikely that the media is just making up the "herbivore" culture and the number of Otaku who live in internet cafes or don't leave their bedrooms.
 
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4) Japan basically has full employment so I am not sure it's fair to argue that economic worries are the reason people aren't having children.
There is a difference between having a job, and being able to support a family with a job.
"Freeters" are a huge problem in Japan. Companies world wide wont give steady contracts anymore, and especially in the Japanese modern society, which is based on companies offering a lifetime security in exchange for crazy loyalty and working hours, its too much insecurity for the recent generation that they cant be guaranteed a long term future and a salary that allows them to move out of their parents' house at least.
 
5) It's entirely possible that the range of sexual paid services on offer is a result of people's inability to foster relationships rather than evidence everything is fine. i.e. I have no psychology training but it stands to reason, in economic terms, that needs are fulfilled by the market. We don't have maid cafes or paid dating clubs or blowjob bars where I live. It seems logical to me that Japan's development of such thing is a direct result of their fucked up non-relationships in their personal lives.
This is awfully unaccepting for a post on a p4p forum. There is nothing more fucked up about the Japanese p4p than America where they arrest people for consented sex or Europe where they put the women from poorer countries naked in front of windows to shame them in front of tourists walking by for the lowest possible prices you can find in developped countries.

Most of the men i have met through date clubs have been either married or divorced and they often have children, so your point is quite invalid.
 
Personally I think it's mostly attributed to how common Gender Segregated education is japan. If you aren't allowed to interact with the opposite sex until your late teens/early twenties then you never learn how to date really. You never form circles of friends that include the male and female so you go out with all the girls or all the guys as group and your very intimidating for someone to approach in that scenario especially if no one has any experience. Probably one reason foreigners can have such surprising success dating in Japan is that they actually know how to approach the opposite sex.

And I would argue that the P4P market can help the situation immensely. Since young men and women don't learn to interact sexually with each other during their educational years through trial and error where can they go to learn it? P4P. I would love to see someone do some research and check the marriage and birth rate of young men and women who participate in P4P (men as the consumers and women as the providers primarily) versus those that don't. My hypothesis is that young men and women who participate would likely end up acquiring the skills to date and marry and thus produce children by their mid twenties where as those that don't participate may never acquire said skills. I would make no guess as to how stable or happy these marriages are however. Simply that they occur and produce children at a higher rate.
 
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You can't be anti-immigrant, not have babies and have an aging population. It's a recipe for disaster.

Or you can, only time will tell. In thirty years robots will do all work anyway, so no need to have a growing population. On the contrary the countries who now get lots of immigration will be in trouble when the next generation will be large, out of job and feeling out of place in a country they don't associate with.
 
This is awfully unaccepting for a post on a p4p forum. There is nothing more fucked up about the Japanese p4p than America where they arrest people for consented sex or Europe where they put the women from poorer countries naked in front of windows to shame them in front of tourists walking by for the lowest possible prices you can find in developped countries.

Most of the men i have met through date clubs have been either married or divorced and they often have children, so your point is quite invalid.
Also there is contraception so you can have an active sexlife in your marriage without having children.
 
Wait, my point about Japan's fucked up interpersonal relationships is invalid because either a) married men are engaging in paid dating with somebody who isn't their wife or b) divorced men are engaging in paid dating?

On the contrary, that proves my point entirely. If these men were wonderful at relationships then, by definition, they wouldn't need paid dating.

If you want to believe that maid cafes and paid dating etc.. aren't a reflection of Japan's interpersonal relationship problems...believe that...I honestly don't care...

All - I am off...it's been fun...it's time to move on...I got the info I needed...all the best.
 
Wait, my point about Japan's fucked up interpersonal relationships is invalid because either a) married men are engaging in paid dating with somebody who isn't their wife or b) divorced men are engaging in paid dating?

On the contrary, that proves my point entirely. If these men were wonderful at relationships then, by definition, they wouldn't need paid dating.

If you want to believe that maid cafes and paid dating etc.. aren't a reflection of Japan's interpersonal relationship problems...believe that...I honestly don't care...

All - I am off...it's been fun...it's time to move on...I got the info I needed...all the best.
You're claiming paid dating is fucked up on a forum full of foreigners dedicated to sex services, with an extended part about sugar dating, and a few guys who have used Universe Club, which had a special branch for foreign men?
And you are saying paid dating isn't big in other countries while Seeking Arrangement is American founded?

Plus so many guys here on TAG claim that p4p, either fulfilling emotional or sexual need, SAVED their marriage...

Go hate on the wonderful, playful sex industry somewhere else.
 
Wait, my point about Japan's fucked up interpersonal relationships is invalid because either a) married men are engaging in paid dating with somebody who isn't their wife or b) divorced men are engaging in paid dating?

On the contrary, that proves my point entirely. If these men were wonderful at relationships then, by definition, they wouldn't need paid dating.

If you want to believe that maid cafes and paid dating etc.. aren't a reflection of Japan's interpersonal relationship problems...believe that...I honestly don't care...

All - I am off...it's been fun...it's time to move on...I got the info I needed...all the best.
It's invalid because the married couples are having less kids so it's not the single's fault and P4P clients can be couples who have kids so it's not because of P4P either.
Also are countries famous for P4P with a lot cheaper offer where the birthrate is a lot higher than Japan's.
 
You're claiming paid dating is fucked up on a forum full of foreigners dedicated to sex services, with an extended part about sugar dating, and a few guys who have used Universe Club, which had a special branch for foreign men?
And you are saying paid dating isn't big in other countries while Seeking Arrangement is American founded?

Plus so many guys here on TAG claim that p4p, either fulfilling emotional or sexual need, SAVED their marriage...

Go hate on the wonderful, playful sex industry somewhere else.
To be fair with everyone that's not what he said. He said the interpersonal relationship is fucked up not P4P.
Also what you are saying about P4P saving some people's marriage isn't opposing his idea as he said that P4P offer is answering a demand coming from interpersonal relationships.
 
I'm not aware of much gender segregation. Although the uniforms might have a big social influence.
My understanding was that most private upper secondary schools tended be a boys school or girls school. I could swear I had read that but now that I've gone back to try to find where I read it I can't. So perhaps I just imagined this somewhere. I'll leave the original post so that yours and this one don't look strange but I hereby retract it for being written in ignorance :)
 
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My understanding was that most private upper secondary schools tended be a boys school or girls school. I could swear I had read that but now that I've gone back to try to find where I read it I can't. So perhaps I just imagined this somewhere. I'll leave the original post so that yours and this one don't look strange but I hereby retract it for being written in ignorance :)

Single sex schools used to be much more common in the golden 80's, I believe the number was over 20% of all schools. I think I heard some years ago when that dropped to less than 10%. But there still are around 3 times more girl's schools than boy's schools. Still even with that the schools with most people getting to the Tokyo University are all boy's schools.
 
To be fair with everyone that's not what he said. He said the interpersonal relationship is fucked up not P4P.
I think that's a distinction without a difference, as they say.

If the P4P (and the soft services) are a direct result of fucked up relationships, that kind of makes them fucked up too. Frankly, since most of us here are participating or at least interested in some or all of those services, the implication is that we have fucked up interpersonal skills too.

I'm not saying Japan doesn't have a higher percentage of people than in the West who are awkward around the opposite sex. But I also don't see it as anything to be ashamed of or even bad for society. It's another chicken and egg problem regarding the sex industry, IMO.

However, there are plenty of awkward people in the west and the reason the services mentioned don't exist is purely because of legal and social issues preventing them from operating publicly. Not because the demand isn't there (I mean here).

Guys here are almost forced into dating because 1) peer pressure, 2) there is no other way to get your dick wet. I don't think either of those are good and it results in a lot of unhappy and doomed relationships.
 
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1)Absolutely, industrial countries typically have have lower than replacement rate population growth (You need 2.1 babies for every 2 people to maintain a population level) but they make up for that with immigration. So while the US (1.8) has less babies than they need, they bring in immigrants that bolster numbers. Japan, on the other hand, is deeply xenophobic and is at like 1.4.
It's irrelevant to the conversation and a meaningless nitpick, but you only need 2 babies for every 2 people to maintain the population. This is true for every country at every time in their history. The "replacement rate" you mention, is something different.
 
I think that's a distinction without a difference, as they say.

If the P4P (and the soft services) are a direct result of fucked up relationships, that kind of makes them fucked up too. Frankly, since most of us here are participating or at least interested in some or all of those services, the implication is that we have fucked up interpersonal skills too.
not necessarily.
Just because the disease is a fucked up thing doesn't mean the cure is fucked up as well.
 
not necessarily.
Just because the disease is a fucked up thing doesn't mean the cure is fucked up as well.
The p4p scene isn't a cure for the disease, it's just a logical consequence, a symptom even. That is the implication of the poster. (Not mine, and I think not that of most others here.)

You don't keep taking penicillin after the syphillis is gone and you don't take it if you don't have the disease, just for fun. In fact, if the disease doesn't exist there is no need for penicillin at all, in fact. The whole situation is fucked up.

I don't know anything about the poster's inner thoughts on this industry and the people involved. Either he has a fucked up view of all of us, his logic is faulty, or his communication skills failed him here. That's all I know or need to know.
 
I think that's a distinction without a difference, as they say.

If the P4P (and the soft services) are a direct result of fucked up relationships, that kind of makes them fucked up too. Frankly, since most of us here are participating or at least interested in some or all of those services, the implication is that we have fucked up interpersonal skills too.

I'm not saying Japan doesn't have a higher percentage of people than in the West who are awkward around the opposite sex. But I also don't see it as anything to be ashamed of or even bad for society. It's another chicken and egg problem regarding the sex industry, IMO.

However, there are plenty of awkward people in the west and the reason the services mentioned don't exist is purely because of legal and social issues preventing them from operating publicly. Not because the demand isn't there (I mean here).

Guys here are almost forced into dating because 1) peer pressure, 2) there is no other way to get your dick wet. I don't think either of those are good and it results in a lot of unhappy and doomed relationships.
This was exactly my point! :)