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Closed Request For Comments: Limited Guest Viewing

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TAG Manager

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All,

We are considering the idea of putting a lock on our content in regards to guest viewing (i.e. non-registered users).

The function would basically block guests after a preset number of page views which would help block some of the scrapers out there that are lifting content without permission. We have tried IP blocking as well as user agent blocking, but it's extremely easy to spoof IP addresses and user agent strings.

Once a user is a registered member:
1) Unlimited Viewing (of public areas, excluding any premium or private sections that senior members or future premium members may have access to)
2) Provides a metric for us to determine if an account is being used to gather content
3) And we won't lie... it also gives up some better measurement of what content people are reading the most of.

We would like to leave this RFC thread open for awhile to get some feedback on this idea and would appreciate some honest, sincere feedback on whether or not we should implement such a system.

Thank you for your time.
 
+1. I think this is an excellent idea
 
Very fair and reasonable. And it's enough of a hurdle that malicious leech suckers will probably decide it isn't worth the trouble and bug off.

I'm certain that a high percentage of THOSE gaijin who fuck it up for the rest of us are not registered at the site.
 
I'm certain that a high percentage of THOSE gaijin who fuck it up for the rest of us are not registered at the site.

That had crossed my mind... point noted and considered.

Thank you for your post.
 
I'm wondering if this will affect your website negatively, and will it reduce new viewers and awareness of your website?

If this will be a semi-secret/private website, well I guess locking it down more is the path to take. Forgive me, but I'm still a bit fuzzy about this.

Someone intent on lifting content, can simply sign up and do so. There are several methods to such things for those with such a mindset.

Also, anonymity isn't alway a bad thing. Some people might be embarrassed to sign up or not interesting in posting. Many forums have such lurkers.
 
I'm wondering if this will affect your website negatively, and will it reduce new viewers and awareness of your website?
They can still put things out on RSS/Atom feeds with just the headlines of new posts.

TER does something similar, and they have no problem with keeping member review counts up. :bookworm:
 
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Someone intent on lifting content, can simply sign up and do so. There are several methods to such things for those with such a mindset.

From a technology perspective, it's FAR easier to rip off data without logging in -- i.e., via creating a script/program and running it against the TAG website to harvest the data -- and if a user is blocked after a certain number of views, such an automation would fail. It's also obviously it's easier for TAG to track down people ripping off said data if they are required to log in.

Also, anonymity isn't alway a bad thing. Some people might be embarrassed to sign up or not interesting in posting. Many forums have such lurkers.

Not creating a user doesn't protect anonymity at all. Generating a fake email address is simple, and TAG doesn't require any other personal data. Whether you are logging in or not, your browser history and cookies still contain TAG entries. The only downside to requiring people to log in is that if they are using Private/Incognito mode they'd have to log in every time they pull up TAG, which I don't think is too big of a price to pay, personally.

And yes, many hobby forums have such lurkers, but most of those forums require not only an account but some sort of payment or a number of reviews before a user gains access to review data. TAG at this point doesn't have any of those restrictions.
 
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If this will be a semi-secret/private website, well I guess locking it down more is the path to take. Forgive me, but I'm still a bit fuzzy about this.

That decision hasn't really come to the table yet... We're just looking for an effective and reasonable way to try and stop the 'bleeding'. Additionally, we have to evolve eventually or become irrelevant. There are plans... but we need more manpower and funds to implement ideas suggested to us as well as our own.

The reviews and really more 'adult' content would be the areas that would be kind of restricted but not completely hidden. The other general areas, will stay as-is.

Nonetheless, any and all feedback is appreciated and taken into consideration.

Edit:
As far as personnel goes, I do plan on bringing on an assistant community manager. Meiji has provided an invaluable service but he's really the only active moderator. Ayaka isn't a moderator, she's there for Japanese language support and research... and eventually will handle more of the business end where a fully bilingual resource is required. The original management Eliah, Mike, Karen and myself still meet & discuss stuff but they are generally inactive on the site itself. Eliah is still the primary financial provider for the site and related expenses.
 
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I support locking up the forum for non-registered guests after they checked few posts, TAG is really a valuable forums, it helps people here finding good service providers(such as AM, Kitty, and hipness...).

But I have to suggest that would not increase the difficulty significantly, because web-scrapping programs can register many users automatically.
 
But I have to suggest that would not increase the difficulty significantly, because web-scrapping programs can register many users automatically.
Yes, we've considered this and we have devised a few ways to detect and hinder those types of systems.

Thanks for your replies!
 
One consequence of limiting access is that it will make the site a less valuable/productive place for escorts, agencies, shops and so forth to advertise and participate. At least some, and I suspect much, of the business that TAG generates for those on the seller side of p4p is from guys who do not register but just browse through, perhaps in preparation for a brief stop in Tokyo on a business trip and that sort of thing. At least some of them would not bother to register if it were required. And, even beyond that, for the sellers, the "scrapers" are actually a good thing if they bring the seller's services to the attention of more potential buyers.

Fwiiw, I don't see this as a decisive argument, and perhaps it is not even a significant one, but I did not see it mentioned above and so am (belatedly) tossing it into the bin.

-Ww
 
@Wwanderer

Thank you for your comments about this suggestion.

It's a tricky situation and your comments reflect some of our own thoughts, truly. We are moving towards expanding our information as well further expanding as a business by offering some services to agencies and independents. The bottom line for us is that in order to stay relevant, we need to continue to evolve and improve in our core areas. Some of that may be protection of assets to prevent someone from just simply coming along and doing a copy+paste of our site such as what Massage Planet did to us awhile back.

Again, we really appreciate the feedback.
 
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@TAG Manager - Yep, it is tricky, or perhaps more precisely, it is a trade-off with no perfect solution. Fwiiw, many (nearly all, I think) of the monger boards in the US with significant amounts of provider participation do require user registration to view the boards' contents. So, my point above clearly is not a killer objection, and since TAG has little competition in providing English-language Tokyo information, I think some level of restriction is probably the right choice. That would be my call if it were mine to make, but it will have some downsides nevertheless. My previous post was simply to make one of them explicit; I'm not surprised that it had already occurred to you.

And btw, thanks much for providing us all with this excellent forum and useful resource. From experience, I know that running one of these things is a lot more effort/work than one would guess at first glance.

-Ww
 
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And btw, thanks much for providing us all with this excellent forum and useful resource. From experience, I know that running one of these things is a lot more effort/work than one would guess at first glance.

Haha, I'm glad someone does... this place doesn't drive itself. :(

Our goal of course after all, is world domination. :) But that takes money... like everything thing else.... :greedy:

At this time, we haven't fully developed or found an existing function that would suit our needs. So, this is probably a little ways off in any case.
 
I know I feel more welcome when there is an anonymous access. And probably a stronger engagement once you create an account.

Maybe enforce some Captcha after the users watches nnn posts anonymously ? But then it can also be cicrconvented by IP spoofing etc..

I wonder how the big internet players properly deal with this.
 
Despite being a fairly new member, I'll chime in a bit.

I think it's a good idea. Given the type of content of the site, and the breed of riffraff that it can attract, at some point we'll have to put some security in place.

It was mentioned earlier that this may turn away potential members - specifically those casuals spending a short time in Tokyo. For that point, we can use myself as an example. I was spending three days in Tokyo, found TAG and signed right up. A security measure such as this would not have turned me off in any way. (No pun intended.)
 
Marketing myopia 101:
As of now, you as a supplier hold a complete monopoly. So you should definitely leverage this for your future expansion strategy. But this forum is a source of valuable information and can be accessed by all sorts of people; introverts, extroverts, perverts, locals, asians, westerners, and what nots. Every one must have had different expectation when they arrived at this doorstep. So please take into consideration every such kind of expectation. Creating a necessity of loginID will surely demotivate everyone but it will not deter the highly determined and desperate ones. I say go ahead. Just a login should not harm you much and I hope such a step will meliorate TAG. But a future plan of creating paid subscriptions will definitively hinder customer participation.
 
What about something like an oath when creating a login: "I solemnly swear that I shall never cause my fellow TAGers sadness by brutalizing the providers reviewed"

Or a modification of some of these CAPTCHAs? Dullards needn't apply. :bucktooth:
 
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