SA pros? Cons galore

[Jennifer Maddingly]

I don't know if there is a post like this on here but my current experience seems to be unique.

So seeking arrangement. I've tried it in 3 countries and had mainly bad experiences. The few good ones I've had have been great, however; the bad ones are frustrating beyond belief.

Cons

First things first. The "no escorts allowed" rule. I've had to make 6! (Yes six) new accounts because someone keeps reporting me as an escort. Even though none of my messages reflect that. None of my photos are the same as I use for escorting. It just seems that someone(s) doesn't want me there. Surely if they're going to take work away from escorts, they should allow us to use their website? Especially because so many arrangements are similar to escort meetings anyway you would think they would give us a break.

Second.
Girls who aren't escorts - being CHEAP escorts. It's a real problem in Australia and recently Japan too. Even 15 year olds are even doing it! Girls who will spend overnight with a guy for 30,000 yen. Spending overnight with a professional escort now looks like way too much. Obviously the guys who would actually spend that much still exist but they're turning to seeking arrangement now to find girls which leads back to 'first'. escorts aren't allowed? And the guys who are not ready to pay more than 30,000 for the night can find a girl. Even if she is 15.... (pro??)

Third. The guys you meet and 'lookey loos' are the same as escort emails. Guys who just want to chat with no intention to meet. So this is a con but not a huge one.

Fourth. Guys who think sugar means simply not splitting the bill. "I'll just pay for dinner and compensate your train fare" (if that). There have been some guys from tag using sa to find exactly that. I'm sure girls who that's ok with exist. But I sure hope they're not on SA.

Fifth. The app is crashy slow and hard to use.


Okok, I'm sure you get it by now. Lots of cons! Here are some pros though, just so you know I'm not bitter. Haha

Pro, number one. You know why guys are there and you can message them first! For the most part.

Pro two. The guys who do meet can be very VERY generous. And for the most part are educated.

Pro three. Unlike backpage, GD and TG or even my own website; I can see who I'm talking to. Read a bit about them. Know who I'm dealing with.

What are the biggest pros for other pros using SA? Or the cons? How many accounts does it take to get to the bottom of the sugar bowl? And as a daddy on SA, are you substituting escorts for SBs? How little sugar have you given before and are you ok with substituting quality for quantity when it comes to affection?

 

[e-smile]

is SA a "Sugar App" ?
not familiar with the concept and I don't see the difference between sugar babes and escorts to be honest so I don't understand why the would ban an account for being an escort.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

Maybe you should start off with understanding that SB and escorts are not the same. That could be a reason why neither pricing is comparable nor escorts are wanted at a site as SA. You won't be welcome on a dating site for gay guys either. Could easily be a reason for your bad experiences if you expect it to be just another venue for your escort work.

If you find 15year old girls on SA, I'm sure they will be happy about your reports. Almost certain that they require a minimum age of at least 18.

 

[e-smile]

Maybe you should start off with understanding that SB and escorts are not the same. That could be a reason why neither pricing is comparable nor escorts are wanted at a site as SA. You won't be welcome on a dating site for gay guys either. Could easily be a reason for your bad experiences if you expect it to be just another venue for your escort work.

If you find 15year old girls on SA, I'm sure they will be happy about your reports. Almost certain that they require a minimum age of at least 18.

one is jam and the other is marmelade
still the same to me

 

[User#6517]

I also do not understand their "no escorts" rule because most of the men on there are looking for exactly that. Multiple SBs on Instagram located in the States complain about it.

I've never been reported.. but I'm sorry that's happened to you. Have you tried going "gray"? As in, having no display picture and just having one or two sentences on your profile that don't seem identifiable to your real persona?

One "pro" that I can think of is that you can look up a different location and see potential SDs somewhere else. This is helpful when you're traveling and want to actually go the escort route or want weekly allowances for the time you're there.

is SA a "Sugar App" ?
not familiar with the concept and I don't see the difference between sugar babes and escorts to be honest so I don't understand why the would ban an account for being an escort.

SeekingArrangement is a sugar dating website that also has its own app.

Although they are a little similar to each other, there are some big differences between escorts and sugar babies.

Escorts see multiple people, and there's usually a routine involved. Meet the client, receive payment, take a shower together, get intimate, shower again, then leave. Payment is received every time the escorts sees a client.

Sugar babies can have the luxury of sometimes getting into exclusive arrangements, because the allowances can be high and stable enough that they don't feel the need to seek other partners. There is no routine for sugaring. It's normal to not receive gift money on the first dates, especially when it comes to meeting men from SA. Payments are usually referred to as "allowances" and are given on a weekly or monthly basis. Encounters are not timed like escort bookings.

 

[User#8628]

I actually quit the site by accident because its so inconvient. I probably have messages on there from years ago on there that i've never opened and i'm embarrassed about that. I prefer kosai clubs to SA because the guys already paid to the club so they are more serious and eager to make an arrangement work.

To me, i've received a great monthly allowance a few times and it was definitely amazing. I've also done sugar dates where they give money for each date but we are not as on the clock as with escort dates. But where hotel time for escorting plays a big part i found sugar arrangements to be always one pop, and focussing much more on the dinner and that kind of things part.

 

[e-smile]

SeekingArrangement is a sugar dating website that also has its own app.

Although they are a little similar to each another, there are some big differences between escorts and sugar babies.

Escorts see multiple people, and there's usually a routine involved. Meet the client, receive payment, take a shower together, get intimate, shower again, then leave. Payment is received every time the escorts sees a client.

Sugar babies can have the luxury of sometimes getting into exclusive arrangements, because the allowances can be high and stable enough that they don't feel the need to seek other partners. There is no routine for sugaring. It's normal to not receive gift money on the first dates, especially when it comes to meeting men from SA. Payments are usually referred to as "allowances" and are given on a weekly or monthly basis. Encounters are not timed like escort bookings.

thanks.

the details are different but it's still the same concept to me.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

thanks.

the details are different but it's still the same concept to me.

@Wwanderer has written some lengthy essays about the topic here. While the majority of sugar arrangements may include both financial compensation and sexual activities, there are also those who contain neither, even if it might be rarer.

It might be very similar from an escort point of view who offers both, but there are also a number of girls there who don't primarily do it for money.

 

[User#6517]

@Wwanderer has written some lengthy essays about the topic here. While the majority of sugar arrangements may include both financial compensation and sexual activities, there are also those who contain neither, even if it might be rarer.

It might be very similar from an escort point of view who offers both, but there are also a number of girls there who don't primarily do it for money.

Sure, sex may not be on the table in some arrangements.. but if there's no financial compensation, I don't believe that's sugar dating.

What's your definition of "sugar"?

 

[e-smile]

@Wwanderer has written some lengthy essays about the topic here. While the majority of sugar arrangements may include both financial compensation and sexual activities, there are also those who contain neither, even if it might be rarer.

It might be very similar from an escort point of view who offers both, but there are also a number of girls there who don't primarily do it for money.

where is the sugar in that ? sugar dating without money compensation is just dating.

to me it's like comparing a private cook in some rich guy's house and a cook in a restaurant with a fixed menu and yes both are cooks even if they don't make the same dishes and they don't feed the same number of people they still do it for money.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

Sure, sex may not be on the table in some arrangements.. but if there's no financial compensation, I don't believe that's sugar dating.

What's your definition of "sugar"?

Going to posh restaurants, opera, travel together etc.. There are girls who look to broaden their experiences. Sure that is not free, but no money changes hands. I have even seen profiles only looking for someone to lean on for advice with career or other stuff.

You have to realise that monetary wealth is not everything man accumulate over time. It might not even be the most valuable thing.

To give you an example, I only used SA once outside of Japan, because I was curiously checking out the site and stumbled a profile of a lady looking for a partner to enjoy/introduce her to classical music. In the beginning I paid all dates, but after we had established a good connection, I got invited quite a few times too, as she was financially well off herself. It was indeed pretty much like dating albeit it was pretty clear from the start that it was not leading to a relationship.
Common? Most likely not, but unlike escorting there are priorities different from money in play too. That's why some girls might sell themselves cheap in your eyes, but for them money might just be one component. In some cases it might only be there to weed out people looking for cheap sex.

 

[User#8628]

Sure, sex may not be on the table in some arrangements.. but if there's no financial compensation, I don't believe that's sugar dating.

What's your definition of "sugar"?

Only case in which i would count it as that is maybe shopping dates and receiving a lot of presents. Even going to expensive restaurants and having the guy pay i wouldn't count as sugar dating per se.

 

[User#8628]

Most likely not, but unlike escorting there are priorities different from money in play too.

To me escorting is not money focussed either. Sure, money is the spice i need, and the way i pay my living expenses, and its definitely an essential.
But the thrill of meeting a viarity of people, some very interesting and classy and some people a regular young student wouldn't meet, and to have various experiences is just as much as a motivator to me.

 

[User#6517]

Only case in which i would count it as that is maybe shopping dates and receiving a lot of presents. Even going to expensive restaurants and having the guy pay i wouldn't count as sugar dating per se.

Going to posh restaurants, opera, travel together etc.. There are girls who look to broaden their experiences. Sure that is not free, but no money changes hands. I have even seen profiles only looking for someone to lean on for advice with career or other stuff.

You have to realise that monetary wealth is not everything man accumulate over time. It might not even be the most valuable thing.

To give you an example, I only used SA once outside of Japan, because I was curiously checking out the site and stumbled a profile of a lady looking for a partner to enjoy/introduce her to classical music. In the beginning I paid all dates, but after we had established a good connection, I got invited quite a few times too, as she was financially well off herself. It was indeed pretty much like dating albeit it was pretty clear from the start that it was not leading to a relationship.
Common? Most likely not, but unlike escorting there are priorities different from money in play too. That's why some girls might sell themselves cheap in your eyes, but for them money might just be one component. In some cases it might only be there to weed out people looking for cheap sex.

Wouldn't those guys be called "trick daddies"? Trick daddies are men who don't give money directly to the girl, but spoil her with expensive gifts, meals, and trips.

 

[Wwanderer]

I've had an SA account for over 10 years now, since about 6 months after the company/website opened, and for around a half dozen year I have met more p4p partners via SA than in any other way. I've completely lost count of how many. So, I guess I can claim to be a quite experienced SA SD.

So seeking arrangement. I've tried it in 3 countries and had mainly bad experiences. The few good ones I've had have been great, however; the bad ones are frustrating beyond belief.[/b]

I'd say about the same. It is definitely a game in which the occasional fantastic wins have to compensate for a lot of duds or worse.

First things first. The "no escorts allowed" rule. ... Especially because so many arrangements are similar to escort meetings anyway you would think they would give us a break.

SA started in the US, and my guess is that the rule is to try to avoid legal problems in the US. As far as I know there has never been an attempt to close down SA on the grounds that it is a venue for prostitution, but it is easy to imagine it happening (lots of prosecutors with political ambitions in the US will take on high profile prostitution prosecutions to grab headlines). If there official corporate policy excludes escorts, it would probably help them defend against such charges.

Okok, I'm sure you get it by now. Lots of cons!

A major con (for me and I think most) is that it is a HUGE sink of time and effort to filter through all the profiles, messages, correspondences, meeting arrangements, and actual first meetings that go nowhere to find the rare and precious "wins". Moreover, I have the strong impression that it is getting worse rapidly because the number of people on SA is growing rapidly as the whole sugar dating thing is becoming ever better known and more "acceptable"...which sounds like a good thing but unfortunately most of the newbies these days are really prepared to have a sugary life style (if you can call it that). Happily, the gems are still there though.

And as a daddy on SA, are you substituting escorts for SBs?

Yes...in large part because even in the days before sugaring was widely available and I saw escorts, I was always looking for the ones that engage their clients with their real personalities rather than delivering a performance. (I think lots of mongers prefer the opposite, but I am ever the exception in ever group to which I belong it seems.) SBs are much more likely to do so than pros; most SBs don't even have a performance/script to deliver. Exceptions abound of course.

-Ww

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

Wouldn't those guys be called "trick daddies"? Trick daddies are men who don't give money directly to the girl, but spoil her with expensive gifts, meals, and trips.

Don't know. I just checked the site a while back after one of the many raves by @Wwanderer and maybe as many as 10 or 20 percent have explicitly looking for something different from an allowance. Might be a local thing of course. I didn't do an empirical study, but I think girls who wanted to be spoiled by gifts or travel have been equally represented.
That's of course speculation, but maybe some girls draw a line between being spoiled and receiving money directly.

As another difference afaik it's pretty common in sugar dating to part without striking a deal after an initial meeting, as a mutual connection / attraction usually plays an important role too.
On the other hand I still have to be refused service by an escort after meeting and I seriously doubt they all fell instantly in love with me Escorting in that sense is a much more "professional" service.

 

[Wwanderer]

is SA a "Sugar App" ?

SA = seekingarrangement.com = a website on which SB and SDs post profiles, message each other and can arrange to meet. I am pretty sure it is by far the world's largest such website, many hundreds of thousands of members worldwide, perhaps over a million. SA has an app, but I have never used it...seems easier to access the site with a normal browser.

not familiar with the concept and I don't see the difference between sugar babes and escorts to be honest so I don't understand why the would ban an account for being an escort.

Whether you see it or not, based on a decade of sugaring and several decades of seeing escorts, I can assure that they are mostly quite different. The reason I say "mostly" is that there are definitely some SBs who interact with their SDs just like typical escorts interact with their customers, and there are some escorts who interact with at least a few of their customers the way typical SBs interact with their SDs, but both are a smallish minority.

There are other threads in this forum that discuss the differences in detail. @MissInsomnia and @RandomTokyoGuy has mentioned some important ones in his posts above. Here's one such thread:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/differences-between-sugar-dating-and-traditional-p4p.10546/

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

One "pro" that I can think of is that you can look up a different location and see potential SDs somewhere else. This is helpful when you're traveling and want to actually go the escort route or want weekly allowances for the time you're there.

Indeed, this is very common. I get something close to one inquiry per week from some SB who is visiting Tokyo briefly, often a student traveling during the summer or on a break, and who wants a local SD to show her around and help her meet her travel expenses with some sort of allowance.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

But the thrill of meeting a viarity of people, some very interesting and classy and some people a regular young student wouldn't meet, and to have various experiences is just as much as a motivator to me.

As @RandomTokyoGuy mentions, it is the *only* motivation for a fair fraction of the SBs with profiles on SA. His guesstimate of 10-20% sounds about right to me...my estimate is on the low end of that range I suppose.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

the details are different but it's still the same concept to me.

To the extent that we are talking about SA, one is the diversity of the "arrangements" that people seek on the site. Almost all conventional p4p is pretty much an exchange of money for sexual activity with other elements (such as social time) as add-ons or extras, and that is common enough on SA too. Some of the SBs are after that, and maybe even the majority of the SDs are. However, there are people seeking pretty much every variation you can imagine on SA. Some want exclusive arrangements and only long term, while some want one-offs. Some only want arrangements which have the possibility of becoming permanent romantic ones...including marriage, sometimes stated explicitly. Quite a few exclude sex ever and many exclude it until the relationship is well established. Some have tight age restrictions. Some want to move in with their sugar partner. Some don't want to even tell you their name. Some want strictly internet relationships. As already mentioned, some don't want direct transfer of money to be involved. Some won't have an arrangement people who are married or who have SOs. Some don't want arrangements with people who do or don't drink, smoke, gamble, like dogs or cats or children, or enjoy dancing or clubbing...on and on, very much like the profiles people put on conventional dating websites like eHarmony etc.

Another difference is the there are SDs on SA who never see escorts or other conventional sex workers and SBs who would never even remotely consider doing conventional sex work. In other words, there are a lot of people on SA who see it as very different from conventional sex work, and that influences their behavior and attitudes toward their sugar partners in many and fundamental ways.

Imo, it is much much more than the "details" which are different.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Here's an example of a sugar arrangement I enjoyed for a few months recently that is unlike anything you'd find in the conventional p4p world:

My former (and possibly future) SB is a married woman with two young kids who is bored with sex with her husband and who wants some variety of partners and to try out some more exotic/kinky things that apparently don't interest him and somewhat offend her hubby. They are somewhat tight financially, and she also misses the things she could do and have before the kids and mortgage came along - going out to nice places, fancy restaurants, bars, clubs and such...as well as having some nice things, expensive shoes and purses. They are not really important to her but she likes them. She asked me for a very very modest per date allowance.

Due to her small children, she is very concerned about keeping her family intact, and she doesn't dislike her husband...in fact seems to care about him a lot, but just not in a very romantic or sexual way. Apparently they have sex once per week or so and pretty much always in the same way. Etc. You get the picture.

She sees sugaring as the perfect answer. She gets some variety of partners and sexual experiences. She gets to go to nice places and gets a bit of money to treat herself to stuff like nice shoes and fancy nail treatments. Best of all (from her perspective) here is much less risk of emotional involvement or discovery than there would be if she simply had an extramarital affair with someone she met (who would necessarily have some connection to her real life).

Does this still sound like escorting to you @e-smile, except for the "details".

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

I prefer kosai clubs to SA because the guys already paid to the club so they are more serious and eager to make an arrangement work.

I have to agree that the kosai clubs have many advantages over SA, but I have met some great great SBs though both (to be precise, though SA and Universe Club, the only kosai club I've used). That said, one thing that seems quite a lot better about SA, especially for the women...but I prefer it too, is that on SA, the SDs have profiles rather similar to the SBs, so any SB you meet can already know whatever you wish to put in your profile about you. They can also contact you first if they like what they see/read in your profile. In UC and the other kosai clubs afaik, only the women have profiles and the guys do all the picking.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

One more example of a very non-escort-like type of SB I've encountered. On three, maybe four, occasions an NYC SB has contacted me with a message saying that she wants an SD who is an attorney who can get her an internship in his or another law firm in return for "affection" or "benefits" or some such euphemism. Not being an attorney, I never found out any further details.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

Also, i wouldn't say that "escorts are only in it for the money and SBs want something more".
The difference is rather that escorts have fun meeting a variety of people and experience different kind of things and SBs want one (or few) person(s) they really connect with IMO.

Personally i would get bored in an exclusive sugar dating relationship.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Sure, sex may not be on the table in some arrangements.. but if there's no financial compensation, I don't believe that's sugar dating.

OK.
How about this one?
I have what I a consider a SB. We have no monthly or per date allowance, but she knows she can count on me.

When we meet of course I cover all costs. But our agreement is that I'll help her when she needs it.

Ok. So a couple of weeks ago she is traveling in Thailand and gets caught short of cash. She needs to get back to KL to catch her flight back to Japan. So she asks me if I'll pay for the ticket. Of course I'll pay.
She also moved apartment recently and need help with the bond money, which I fronted for her.

We both know that if she abuses the trust then it is over.

She has on occasion asked for stuff that I have refused as I got the feeling, and I told her, was a waste of money. She can be a little impulsive and if we discuss it it generally works out.

I want her to be happy and have lots of great experiences, but I won't pay for shit she doesn't need that is living beyond her means.

What I get out of it is fun times with one of the smartest people I have ever met. I get a dinner companion and a travel companion. And some one that makes me laugh a whole lot.
(Also I get to have the kind of sex that I used to dream about in my 20s).

We are not exclusive and she is not a SW. But we have a good bond, and I believe we have genuine affection for each other.

I quit SA after a few bad experiences on there.

Like Alice, albiet for different reasons,I prefer the Kosai clubs. In general you can filter out the qualities you don't want without having to message each person to figure out their angle.

Of course I can't speak for everyone, but It is a bit of a hassle to filter out the SW on Sugar sites from the rank and file.