SA pros? Cons galore

[Wwanderer]

Personally i would get bored in an exclusive sugar dating relationship.

Me too, definitely!

But I get turned down regularly by prospective SBs when they learn that I won't do an exclusive arrangement or sometimes because I see "too many" other women for their liking.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

@Rusty Trombone - The arrangement you describe above sounds terrific, and I would definitely consider it a form of sugaring. Congratulations!

I have also "been there" for some of my SBs when they have a special circumstance or need, and I have one to whom that is my primary form of financial support, i.e., I only provide her with a minor regular allowance.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

OK.
How about this one?
I have what I a consider a SB. We have no monthly or per date allowance, but she knows she can count on me.

When we meet of course I cover all costs. But our agreement is that I'll help her when she needs it.

Ok. So a couple of weeks ago she is traveling in Thailand and gets caught short of cash. She needs to get back to KL to catch her flight back to Japan. So she asks me if I'll pay for the ticket. Of course I'll pay.
She also moved apartment recently and need help with the bond money, which I fronted for her.

We both know that if she abuses the trust then it is over.

She has on occasion asked for stuff that I have refused as I got the feeling, and I told her, was a waste of money. She can be a little impulsive and if we discuss it it generally works out.

I want her to be happy and have lots of great experiences, but I won't pay for shit she doesn't need that is living beyond her means.

What I get out of it is fun times with one of the smartest people I have ever met. I get a dinner companion and a travel companion. And some one that makes me laugh a whole lot.
(Also I get to have the kind of sex that I used to dream about in my 20s).

We are not exclusive and she is not a SW. But we have a good bond, and I believe we have genuine affection for each other.

I quit SA after a few bad experiences on there.

Like Alice, albiet for different reasons,I prefer the Kosai clubs. In general you can filter out the qualities you don't want without having to message each person to figure out their angle.

Of course I can't speak for everyone, but It is a bit of a hassle to filter out the SW on Sugar sites from the rank and file.

You can view this arrangement if any way you want of course, and if its sugar dating to you than thats totally valid.


I dont know if i'm a sucker but i've regulary helped out friends with less money than i in the ways you mentioned though, and not always as a loan but sometimes indeed as a present.

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

So I think a few people may be confused. I am not looking for escort work on sa. I am looking for "more". Rather like @Wwanderer 's maybe future sb, I want someone to not use the script with. Escort is my "9-5" and my bread and butter. But I also want to have some sugar fun and see what's out there.

I'm a firm believer you can do anything and I believe I can escort and sb and keep them separate.

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

I should also mention that this thread isn't about the definition of arrangements and more about seeking arrangement and it's pros and cons

 

[Tokidoki]

I should also mention that this thread isn't about the definition of arrangements and more about seeking arrangement and it's pros and cons

I've been on SA before, it was pretty shitty. Worst so far has been Japan, other countries have more variety of girls and arrangement types.

 

[Wwanderer]

I dont know if i'm a sucker...

Well, you certainly do a great job of it, but I'd prefer to call you an angel!

(Sorry, can't resist a straight line like that. )

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

So I think a few people may be confused. I am not looking for escort work on sa. I am looking for "more". Rather like @Wwanderer 's maybe future sb, I want someone to not use the script with. Escort is my "9-5" and my bread and butter. But I also want to have some sugar fun and see what's out there.

With the bits I made bold in the above quote, I think you nailed the most important and common reason that many escorts like/want to sugar too, and why they see a difference between the two. Sugar relationships can be much more extensive, deep, personal, real and mutually creative than the vast majority of connections between escorts and even their most regular customers. They also depend much more on finding a sugar partner that suits you; it is not something you can do with just anyone.

A common question asked by prospective sugar partners is "What are you looking for in a sugar arrangement?" My usual answer is something like, "a compatible partner interested in collaborating with me to create a unique relationship that suits both of our desires as much as possible". My best sugar connections have been very different from one another.

I'm a firm believer you can do anything and I believe I can escort and sb and keep them separate.

I think that experienced escorts face some extra challenges in sugaring (and that experienced SBs face some extra challenges in escorting), but it can most definitely be done (in both directions) very successfully; I know of many cases and am or have been involved in a few. To the extent that I know you, I definitely think you can do it. Ganbatte!

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

I should also mention that this thread isn't about the definition of arrangements and more about seeking arrangement and it's pros and cons

Fair enough and good point. @e-smile's contention that escorting and sugaring are pretty much the same kind of distracted/deflected the conversation. Mea culpa (in part).

As I already mentioned, one major pro for SA is that the SBs can look at the SD's profiles, just like on a conventional dating site. I think this changes the dynamic quite a bit, not least of all by allowing the SBs to initiate contacts with SDs whose profiles they find interesting. Afaik, no kosai club has that feature.

More generally, I find it hard to evaluate SA's pros and cons without knowing what you are comparing it too. Kosai clubs or other online sugar sites or meeting people in bars/clubs or ...?

-Ww

 

[e-smile]

I plead guilty

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

Fair enough and good point. @e-smile's contention that escorting and sugaring are pretty much the same kind of distracted/deflected the conversation. Mea culpa (in part).

As I already mentioned, one major pro for SA is that the SBs can look at the SD's profiles, just like on a conventional dating site. I think this changes the dynamic quite a bit, not least of all by allowing the SBs to initiate contacts with SDs whose profiles they find interesting. Afaik, no kosai club has that feature.

More generally, I find it hard to evaluate SA's pros and cons without knowing what you are comparing it too. Kosai clubs or other online sugar sites or meeting people in bars/clubs or ...?

-Ww

I'm not comparing it to other sites/clubs because clubs I've had even less luck, joining UC I got one request to go out which in the end was cancelled on me last minute.

As far as other websites go, I haven't had luck in Japan. I do wakuwaku mail etc but that really only produces flakes or escort bookings.

What other websites are there even (for Japan)

 

[Wwanderer]

I'm not comparing it to other sites/clubs because clubs I've had even less luck, joining UC I got one request to go out which in the end was cancelled on me last minute.

As far as other websites go, I haven't had luck in Japan. I do wakuwaku mail etc but that really only produces flakes or escort bookings.

What other websites are there even (for Japan)

My point in a way. I see A LOT of flaws in SA, from minor irritations to major shortcomings, but I don't know of any better options for making sugar connections in English...in Tokyo or elsewhere...from the SB's perspective. Guys who aren't too cost sensitive might prefer UC; meeting SBs that way is a lot more convenient and less time consuming, plus the average quality and seriousness of the UC SBs is higher than on SA. But, as you say, most of the UC SBs get *very* few dates, and even the most popular ones don't get a lot. Of course, if you hit a good one (on either SA or UC), it can be terrific since you can keep seeing them for a long time and have a long series of great experiences.

There are a few other sugar websites like "Name Your Price" and "Meet a Millionaire" and "Miss Travel" (names only approximate), but they are owned and run by the same company as SA and have much smaller numbers of participants.

Imo, your best bet is to work on perfecting your SA game. This means tuning your profile and your correspondence techniques and your methods of quickly screening out the ones who aren't going to work out etc. It takes some practice and experimentation. Doing so doesn't eliminate the cons of course, but it can help, and for now at least, SA seems to be the best game in town.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Fwiiw, I tried "Name Your Price" for a while but with very little result. A few correspondences, met 2 or 3 women through it but saw none of them even twice.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

Fwiiw, I tried "Name Your Price" for a while but with very little result. A few correspondences, met 2 or 3 women through it but saw none of them even twice.

-Ww

I've made a "whats your price" account in Japan too out of curiousity, but felt like there was nobody located in Japan. Got some requests but saw no signs that the guys in question were planning to travel to Japan and their location settings were in countries far away. Never met anyone from there.

 

[macdaddymeister]

Never knew about SA until I came across this post. Out of curiosity I signed up but what a shame that you can't even see your messages without having to upgrade. Are there any kosai club info in English here?

 

[User#8628]

Never knew about SA until I came across this post. Out of curiosity I signed up but what a shame that you can't even see your messages without having to upgrade. Are there any kosai club info in English here?

There are quite some old threads about Universe Club.
Other kosai clubs can be cheaper but they may not accept non Japanese speakers (i think many would accept a foreigner who's fluent in Japanese but it will also depend on the girls if they accept the date offer, i got asked once by a club if i would accept foreigners but it was a long time ago and i think they are not active anymore, kosai clubs seem to boom for a while then go inactive pretty fast).

As for SA, its a legit website, although annoying to use, so it may benefit to pay to see the messages, although the number of girls in Japan who use it may be limited and its never guaranteed that you can find someone who's interested in the same arrangement as you are.

 

[Wwanderer]

the number of girls in Japan who use it may be limited and its never guaranteed that you can find someone who's interested in the same arrangement as you are.

The SA search engine currently reports just under 700 SBs listing "Japan" in their location field. The SA search engine does not know ANY geography though (think of it as an American!), so if someone just writes, say, "Shinjuku" as their location, it doesn't know that it is in Japan or in Tokyo...unless they improved it sometime recently. So the real number would be higher, probably over 1000. However, SA also has a lot of inactive accounts, so the actually available number is smaller. So, not a definite answer/number, but I'd guess that there are a few hundred SBs available through SA in the greater Tokyo area...mostly English-speaking gaijin.

-Ww

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

I changed my location to Singapore and starting to get some legit offers which is great. Japan seems to only get guys who want to pay he bare minimum for p4p. :/

Speaking to legit sugar daddies is fun!

 

[Mischa Maxwell]

I have recently been on about 5 dates with SDs here in Sydney since moving here in January.

Cons:
-2 out of the 5 have asked for BBFS.

-They are all absolutely 'anti-escort' due to the fact that they want someone who genuinely likes them, is not providing a performance. (My 'con' here is that I'm pretty sure that it would be over if it was discovered that I am an escort).

-The rate of pay is way less than I would make on an escort/client date. I am looking for 'connection' at this point, so I'm not too concerned about money with a great lunch date. However, if the date is hard work emotionally, I can't help thinking what I *could* be making if we had met as escort/client.

- When seeing clients as an escort, I generally don't feel any jealousy, and encourage them to see other escorts. However, when I see that a SD that I genuinely adore is logged onto the site that we met on, I DO feel jealous and a bit sad.

Pros:
- I have had some lovely lunches and gotten to see the sights of Sydney.

- I am currently 'seeing' (sporadically) one SD that I adore and 'click' with. Neither of us want a full-time partner or someone clingy, so it seems brilliant so far. We will have lunch and retire to his hotel for several hours. This is a donation-per-date arrangement. No limit on time.

@Jennifer Maddingly - I have had the most success with www.sugardaddymeet.com.

 

[Wwanderer]

When seeing clients as an escort, I generally don't feel any jealousy, and encourage them to see other escorts. However, when I see that a SD that I genuinely adore is logged onto the site that we met on, I DO feel jealous and a bit sad.

This sort of issue is one of the cons I have encountered in sugaring. I have never been jealous of my SBs seeing other SDs or having conventional relationships, including husbands or very serious SOs. In fact I encourage them to see other SDs and have even done things like helping some of my SBs tune up their SA profiles or figure out how to handle some situation with another SD. Moreover I make it very clear from the beginning that I will be seeing other SBs; it basically says so in my SA profile, but I always mention it early on in the correspondence or at our first meeting in-person. Nevertheless, it is still not uncommon in my experience with sugaring to have an SB become jealous, unhappy or resentful, about me seeing/meeting other SBs. I realize that one doesn't choose one's feelings and that they probably cannot help it, but it is a bummer to have to deal with jealousy in what is nominally an NSA relationship.

-Ww

 

[Moontree]

I find this thread very interesting!

I have not realized that sugar dating is really that common as the phenomena does not exist in Finland (yet). I knew that sugar dating exist but after reading this thread I understand that it is really a big thing.

Anonymity is highly valued in Finland in escort business (escorts never show their faces in photos, nobody uses real names, it is also unaccepted that client asks anything about the civil life of an escort). I guess in sugar dating there is no anonymity?

In general, I have to say that I find it very confusing when escorts advertise with their face visible / tell what they study etc. Of course some of my regular clients know quite a lot about me, but that happens when we spend a lot of time together.

 

[Moontree]

Also, i wouldn't say that "escorts are only in it for the money and SBs want something more".
The difference is rather that escorts have fun meeting a variety of people and experience different kind of things and SBs want one (or few) person(s) they really connect with IMO.

Personally i would get bored in an exclusive sugar dating relationship.

Great comment !

 

[Wwanderer]

I find this thread very interesting!

Lots more info on it in this forum and elsewhere online as well, if you want to know more.

I have not realized that sugar dating is really that common as the phenomena does not exist in Finland (yet). I knew that sugar dating exist but after reading this thread I understand that it is really a big thing.

I just checked the SA website; it lists 244 SBs in Finland. So it exists there at some level. There could be sugar sites in Finnish too of course, but I have no idea. But yes, its popularity varies widely from one place to another and is slowly growing. In NYC I'm pretty sure there are more SBs than escorts and quite possibly more money being spent on sugaring than on conventional p4p.

Anonymity is highly valued in Finland in escort business (escorts never show their faces in photos, nobody uses real names, it is also unaccepted that client asks anything about the civil life of an escort). I guess in sugar dating there is no anonymity?

In general, I have to say that I find it very confusing when escorts advertise with their face visible / tell what they study etc. Of course some of my regular clients know quite a lot about me, but that happens when we spend a lot of time together.

Sugar dating is fairly similar except that showing photos of faces before meeting is more common, but not all will do it. Most SBs and SDs do not reveal their real names or much info about their real lives until they get to know and trust each other somewhat, and some try to keep it all permanently secret. The SA website advises people to use fake names at first. In general, practices vary A LOT in the sugar bowl in many ways and contexts, not just re personal ID and info.

-Ww

 

[Jbagz]

After reading this thread I am wondering about the motivations that power traditional male-female relationships, or any relationship for that matter.

Here are a few of my initial impressions....

At the core of all of relationships there does seem to be an exchange of some type of commodity between the parties involved.
.

In traditional relationships the commodity is often an emotional commodity, in that it is centered satisfying emotional needs of love and belonging, but I would say there are still links to monetary commodities that satisfy physiological needs of security, shelter, food and clothing.

In sugar-relationships there seems to be a tendency toward the female receiving a commodity that has monetary value. If that commodity isn't there, the relationship doesn't develop or it ceases to exist once the monetary commodity is taken away. However, there does appear to an exchange of emotions that satisfy the love and belonging needs of the sugar daddy. Maybe the sugar baby too in some cases.

Sex worker relationships tend to be the most one dimensional, or most straightforward. In that it is generally a simple cash payment for sex.

I try to understand human motivations by looking at them through the lens of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

His theory on human motivation seems to explain the majority of human actions to me.

Look it up and think about each type of relationship as you are reading through it.

Maybe it will shed some light on the differences between these relationships?

 

[Wwanderer]

At the core of all of relationships there does seem to be an exchange of some type of commodity between the parties involved.

This is very often the case for sure, but in the strongest and most long-lived relationships the parties don't perceive it as an "exchange" but rather as a sort of competition of giving. In other words, both people are trying their level best to give the other person more than they receive and without any consideration of what they are getting in return. The technical term for their motivations is "love".

In sugar-relationships there seems to be a tendency toward the female receiving a commodity that has monetary value. If that commodity isn't there, the relationship doesn't develop or it ceases to exist once the monetary commodity is taken away. However, there does appear to an exchange of emotions that satisfy the love and belonging needs of the sugar daddy. Maybe the sugar baby too in some cases.

Sex worker relationships tend to be the most one dimensional, or most straightforward. In that it is generally a simple cash payment for sex.

Generalities but accurate in most cases imo and ime. There are even some exceptions to the bit I made bold above.

-Ww