Scientific/statistical study of online dating (from app data)

[Wwanderer]

The study described in these articles

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-league/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d7ad506e9386

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/health/online-dating-out-of-league-desirability-study/index.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/online-dating-out-of-your-league/567083/

has gotten a fair amount of media attention in the US in the last few days. It is not at all clear that it is all that relevant to the Japanese scene, but it is interesting to think about and perhaps discuss anyway.

It would be interesting to see what these stats would look like if applied to SA.

-Ww

 

[RightOn6975]

No. As far as online is concerned, no. I will say that I am oblivious to intentions. When a girl is interested I won’t notice it and when she is not I will think the complete opposite. It has provided me with some good laughs over the years.

 

[Wwanderer]

No. As far as online is concerned, no. I will say that I am oblivious to intentions. When a girl is interested I won’t notice it and when she is not I will think the complete opposite. It has provided me with some good laughs over the years.

Thanks for the response, but are you sure you put it in the right thread? I don't see any connection of what you posted to the/my OP and the material at the links. But maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning...

-Ww

 

[RightOn6975]

Thanks for the response, but are you sure you put it in the right thread? I don't see any connection of what you posted to the/my OP and the material at the links. But maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning...

-Ww

I see where the confusion lies and I should have been a tad bit clearer on my response. Forgive me on my phone on sentry duty with nicotine and adderall so my mind is racing a mile a minute right now.

What I meant to say is that I really disagree with the statement according to the artucles are you dating out of your league. I don’t see it, I mean if I see someone I am interested I pursue albeit with hilarious consequences or fails. I have dated below my league and above my league it’s all in my opinion what you are looking for, but once again in my opinion it’s almost always about physical attraction, how you look when someone firsts sees you and vice versa.

 

[Wwanderer]

I see where the confusion lies and I should have been a tad bit clearer on my response. Forgive me on my phone on sentry duty with nicotine and adderall so my mind is racing a mile a minute right now.

What I meant to say is that I really disagree with the statement according to the artucles are you dating out of your league. I don’t see it, I mean if I see someone I am interested I pursue albeit with hilarious consequences or fails. I have dated below my league and above my league it’s all in my opinion what you are looking for, but once again in my opinion it’s almost always about physical attraction, how you look when someone firsts sees you and vice versa.

Thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you in an important way. Personally I never think about "league" for a moment and don't see it as a useful concept for the most part.

But I also disagree in an important way; VERY few women will see me as physically attractive at first site (as anyone here who has met you can attest), but it hasn't kept me from having a life full of satisfying relationships with quite a lot of women of very different sorts.

-Ww

 

[RightOn6975]

Thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you in an important way. Personally I never think about "league" for a moment and don't see it as a useful concept for the most part.

But I also disagree in an important way; VERY few women will see me as physically attractive at first site (as anyone here who has met you can attest), but it hasn't kept me from having a life full of satisfying relationships with quite a lot of women of very different sorts.

-Ww

True, but I am of course basing this off of animal nature, the best looking displays, building techniques, and dominance of over other males. I do see how humans are completely different.

 

[Wwanderer]

Obviously, initial physical attraction is also very important in humans, but it is not the only path or factor. Often couples are of comparable physical attractiveness in the sense described in the linked articles, but BIG exceptions to this pattern are also pretty common.

-Ww

 

[BB0523]

I only read the Post article... and while I agree that human nature is to message the person that looks attractive, it would depend on the Photo they had on their profile. I browse dating sites, just for fun... since Craigslist Personal are gone. I is entertainment for me, but once in awhile you see one that may be worth responding. I'm surprised at how many people put bad photo's of themselves on these sites... In the internet age, you are anonymous so I think this creates a kind of "bravery" that would not happen in a face to face situation. as @Wwanderer states about not being "desirable" I assume means from a physical appearance aspect... (correct me if I am wrong) but he has a plethora of experiences which he has been kind enough to share with TAG members...
It means that once you get to know him women are attracted to him. I think women are more "forgiving" on the looks department then men. Men usually want the "hottest" women in the area they are searching... this is based on my experiences.... not scientific data/research... Again, it goes back to how you interact with people. If you treat them as you want to be treated - even in the initial message, then you are more likely to get a favorable response. IMO... For me the women who are attractive that don't know it are the real gems... As long as they have a personality to match - which they usually do... If we did a poll on here where guys posted real pics of the women they have been with, and women did the same... then I think that would be the best research for our community - not saying to do it of course, but like minded individuals It would be a very interesting event I think.... JM2C (Just My 2 Cents)

 

[Sinapse]

Interestingly, online dating is one of the best ways to prove the existence of game and the folly of the "looks are all that matters" people precisely because it removes everything besides the visual and verbal leaving out:

Smell
Vibe
Voice tone
Confidence
Aura
Eye contact
Boldness
Actual verbal flow in real time
Empathy/social intelligence/EQ

Etc

You can "approach" (aka swipe) 50 girls on the toilet without taking a shower or leaving your house and while presenting a semi artificial or at least extremely favorable presentation of yourself which is at best a small slice of the full picture.

So here's how you know someone has got game:

They consistently are able to hook up with women who they would never get even minimal interest from on a dating app.

And how you know someones got bad game:

They fail many of these internet dates and get interest from on average significantly less attractive people in real life.

In other words, game is the gap between what "your level" or "league" should be based purely on visual looks and what level you can actually get in real life.

Fyi, I do absolutely horrendously on Tinder (especially in Japan) and get close to ZERO matches. In real life? I slept with 7 women last week from cold approach. Also, when I meet girls from tinder (generally in non Japanese countries) they insist I don't look like my pictures and I'm much better in real life (I definitely do look like my pictures, there's no filters or anything on them and they are all recent and nice pictures). What they mean is that there is a je ne sais quoi that makes my IRL "league" significantly higher than my online / appearance only "league"

And this is game

 

[Wwanderer]

I only read the Post article... and while I agree that human nature is to message the person that looks attractive, it would depend on the Photo they had on their profile.

Yeah, the study in question isn't really about the person's desirability/attractiveness/league but only about its manifestation (or mis-manifestation) in their profile...which may be dominated by their photo(s), especially in some of the apps.

And as someone commented in one of the articles, calling them "dating apps" is misleading; they are actually more like "meeting apps" or "self-introduction apps". The dating part that may follow is something else entirely.

as @Wwanderer states about not being "desirable" I assume means from a physical appearance aspect... (correct me if I am wrong) but he has a plethora of experiences which he has been kind enough to share with TAG members...

Correct. Some women say that I am "cute" (and are probably mostly being polite, aka lying), but few would go beyond that. One comment I get pretty frequently and that I take fairly seriously (aka mostly believe) is that my voice is attractive/sexy...not that I can actually hear it that way myself.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Interestingly, online dating is one of the best ways to prove the existence of game and the folly of the "looks are all that matters" people precisely because it removes everything besides the visual and verbal leaving out:

Smell
Vibe
Voice tone
Confidence
Aura
Eye contact
Boldness
Actual verbal flow in real time
Empathy/social intelligence/EQ

Etc

...

And this is game

I agree with all of that post, your basic point that there is or can be much much more to appeal/attractiveness than appearance alone, *except* for calling it "game". Of course this is a purely semantic issue; you could call it whatever you want, and it doesn't change the reality. But I think "game" carries a huge load of misleading and undesirable connotations or artificiality and, well, to be blunt, shallowness...just a really unfortunate choice of words imo.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

I think "game" carries a huge load of misleading and undesirable connotations or artificiality and, well, to be blunt, shallowness...just a really unfortunate choice of words imo.

Sure. It's never been a popular concept, mainly because it rubs people the wrong way to think of it as "game." But for all the negative connotations, I think it's pretty accurate that men and women both try to use everything at their disposal to maximize or "game" the dating market, whether that is makeup, buying girls time/attention/company (sugar dating/p4p etc), using cars or displays of wealth, plastic surgery, displaying cleavage/dancing/taking seductive pictures, etc. It's clear, whether people want to admit it or not, that pretty much all parties are trying to present themselves in the best possible way, even if that may not be entirely "true" or accurate all of the time. Whether that really rubs you wrongly or not, I don't particularly object to the term myself. Either way, I didn't invent the term. I'm open to suggestions but so far nothing else seems to accurately convey the idea of "the way men and women try to improve/maximize their dating potential"

 

[Wwanderer]

Biologists call it “mating displays” or “courtship displays” in animals. Maybe we should call it “dating displays” in people?

Anyway, not a big issue I guess. And of course I knew that you didn’t coin that name for it. Do you know who did?

Personally, displaying cleavage works well for me!

-Ww

 

[Coda87]

The articles say on average, a man's age desirability peaks around 50. That put a smile on my face and lifted me out of my birthday blues (today) as I am almost nearing the half-century mark. Thanks Ww.
I also got a little chuckle after reading “Postgraduate education is associated with decreased desirability among women.” And it's not that men don't like intelligent women. But I'm pretty sure most men know that in the USA at least, the longer a women spent time at a university, the more likely she has been conditioned to be a SJW and Anti-Male. Just sayin.

 

[MikeH]

But I'm pretty sure most men know that in the USA at least

It is not only in US, at Tokyo Uni they have a saying that girl's last chance is to find a guy is when she is undergraduate. After she graduates there are no guys who are brave enough to approach her.

I am in the minority myself though; I like smart girls, they make me feel scared.

 

[Sinapse]

Biologists call it “mating displays” or “courtship displays” in animals. Maybe we should call it “dating displays” in people?

Anyway, not a big issue I guess. And of course I knew that you didn’t coin that name for it. Do you know who did?

No idea.

And display seems somehow... Performative... Rather than social

 

[LeonGRAY]

Nanpa > Online dating

No website fraud
No cat-fishing (didn't happen to me but it seems to be very common)
No pranksters
No attention whore females (so common especially on free apps like Tinder)
No suddenly stop corresponding (happens all the time)
No flakes (happens from time to time)
No-shows (can also be pranksters)
Don't look same as profile picture (wasted 1 month of daily communication and the women used a pic from 10 years ago)
No anti-sexual/marry me/immediately too serious chicks (alot of these on Japancupid)

Online can be used as a backup option, but should never be your main source of meeting women.

 

[majimekun]

Online dating is more and more about keeping things virtual VS getting real.
You get either people who are afraid of anything remotely real, who simply have no time to meet, who just want to boost their ego.
In the good old times, online dating was allowing you to filter people based on many profile parameters but now people are way too lazy to write some profile info which means you'd be as lucky just randomly hitting people on the streets.

 

[LeonGRAY]

Online dating is more and more about keeping things virtual VS getting real.
You get either people who are afraid of anything remotely real, who simply have no time to meet, who just want to boost their ego.
In the good old times, online dating was allowing you to filter people based on many profile parameters but now people are way too lazy to write some profile info which means you'd be as lucky just randomly hitting people on the streets.

Unfortunately it seems this way.

In my experience the relationships that lasted the longest were the ones from nanpa and/or meeting women the "natural way" in person instead of online. There is a strong emotional connection you don't really get from online. Call me cynical or jaded (I have dated way too much) but there is nothing romantic or exciting about meeting up with someone you met online it's just another job interview and a numbers game.

I can definitely see it work for some.. if you're introverted and lucky enough to find a gem that is, but the overal experience is terrible. To add to my previous list of why nanpa is better than online: most people online have ulterior motives: visa to escape japan, money etc. especially on sites like Japancupid where your nationality is more important than you as a person.

 

[BB0523]

What are all the terms related to internet : phishing, click -bait, trolling, ghosting, ....u get the idea... Much easier to do behind the screen than face to face... In general terms... It should be called "Anti -Social " media bcuz that's the trend I see evolving as people become more entrenched into this virtual world... At least this forum has lively discussion and useful resources...
Albeit the occasional tool asking for info that's already on the forum but too lazy to search and read to themselves... Just my opinion....

 

[majimekun]

A recent article that kind of bothered me:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...omen-is-another-sign-of-masculinity-in-crisis

A few things I'd have loved to tell the author:

1.
Sexual initiation is better done by older guys who know what they are doing compared to the younger ones who have learned everything from hardcore porn.

2.
Pardon me but "emotional stability" can also be difficult to find in lots of adults ... especially in Japan.

 

[warubuta]

Unfortunately it seems this way.

In my experience the relationships that lasted the longest were the ones from nanpa and/or meeting women the "natural way" in person instead of online. There is a strong emotional connection you don't really get from online. Call me cynical or jaded (I have dated way too much) but there is nothing romantic or exciting about meeting up with someone you met online it's just another job interview and a numbers game.

I can definitely see it work for some.. if you're introverted and lucky enough to find a gem that is, but the overal experience is terrible. To add to my previous list of why nanpa is better than online: most people online have ulterior motives: visa to escape japan, money etc. especially on sites like Japancupid where your nationality is more important than you as a person.

Agree with this. But I have started to meet more and more couples, many of them married, who say that they met online through some kind of dating ap or matching service.

 

[LeonGRAY]

A recent article that kind of bothered me:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...omen-is-another-sign-of-masculinity-in-crisis

A few things I'd have loved to tell the author:

1.
Sexual initiation is better done by older guys who know what they are doing compared to the younger ones who have learned everything from hardcore porn.

2.
Pardon me but "emotional stability" can also be difficult to find in lots of adults ... especially in Japan.

https://twitter.com/arwam

You can tell her on Twitter

 

[Wwanderer]

https://www.bustle.com/p/how-do-mos...ding-their-spouses-today-survey-finds-3344742

In recent years I’ve seen a bunch of other surveys and studies (from different First World countries) showing the same general type of result...meeting somehow online is producing a substantial and growing number of long term or nominally permanent relationships. For good or ill...I dunno. Time will tell I suppose.

-Ww