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Should Japan accept refugees?

deckard said:
Haha, I like Japan's shrines and temples, don't see a reason for them to be private. I think as long as religion can peacefully coexist with modern society, it's totally fine... the problem is when it can't.
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Religions are based on constructed beliefs but politics etc are based on practical facts/reasoning.
This is why religions can't peacefully coexist with modern society.
All religions are beliefs and rules from centuries ago, they are bound to clash with the modern world.

Japanese shrines and temples are more about customs than religions.
They don't try to tell you how to dress/eat/fuck etc.
 
majimekun said:
Religions are based on constructed beliefs but politics etc are based on practical facts/reasoning.
This is why religions can't peacefully coexist with modern society.
All religions are beliefs and rules from centuries ago, they are bound to clash with the modern world.

Japanese shrines and temples are more about customs than religions.
They don't try to tell you how to dress/eat/fuck etc.
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A rose by any other name would smell as sweet :smug:
 
vondoom said:
i got a mosque close to where i am living... im sure from time to time muslims are visiting that place (in fact i knew lots of japanese women who are interested in muslim culture and ive then dozens of japanese women (but nearly no men) visiting the mosque)...
since when do foreigners decide if/when/how other foreigners can enter a country? i know most would like to be on the regulating side, but thats not the way it works... someone once said (in a slightly different context and slightly altered): if that would start, youd be the first to go...
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Arabs and Muslims in Japan have the highers reasons to not want Syrian refugees in Japan (or in any other non Arab country they live in).
most of the regular immigrant tried their best to blend in the society despite the prejudice and the bad reputation (especially since 9/11) and they surely don't want any risk to make it worse with 100k refugees even if there is only 0.001% of bad representatives in the lot. there is a Moroccan proverb that says "it takes only one rotten fish to make the whole bag stink".
 
Ken1988 said:
I agree. Japan is not "into" Islam at all. There were tens of thousands of Iranians in Japan in the early 1990s. They didn't have much influence over the Japanese society, and most of them have returned back to Iran by now.

I think most Indonesians and Malaysians are Sunnis, but I'm not sure how many of them are the Sufis. As far as I know, the Sufis are the most liberal among the Muslims. I have Arab friends and business partners from Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen. Some of them, Muslims, actually drink alcohol. They told me that the prophet Muhammad (PUBH) did not ban alcohol. They claimed that (in bars in European cities) even a Muslim was allowed to drink beer or wine or whiskey or whatever as long as he/she is not intoxicated.
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actually alcohol is mentionned 3 times in the Koran (muslim's bible). the only times it's forbidden is when it says "don't pray while you're drunk" (I'm serious :D ). there is even one part of Koran that says alcohol has benefits for human (but more disadvantages than benefits).

and yeah Sufi is a cool version of Islam indeed but many Sunni drink alcohol the same way many Buddhist eat meat. Muslims are not all very strict, many of them (or even most of them) have sex with their girlfriend while they are not supposed to before getting married (same with Catholics).

In Morocco they sell more around 130 million liters of local alcohol (mainly beer and wine) a year for a 33 millions population.
 
majimekun said:
uh-oh
Ohio attacker Abdul Ali Artan was 'Somali refugee'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38136658
and also ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ylum-worker-appears-court-charged-murder.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ns-dreams-of-perfect-society-up-in-smoke.html

Immigrant youths riot in Sweden, burning down school
http://www.bbc.com/news/10276738
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And if they let a bunch refugees in from anywhere, this will unfortunately happen here. The thing that I noticed from the group here now is that they dont commit crimes because they dont want to go back to their own countries. Going back means death.
 
I've got a much more selfish reason I don't want them here...

I had to get a college degree, apply for a job, work my ass off, all while paying tons of bullshit fees (stupid re-entry permits, visa renewal fees, etc)... Why do they get in for free?
I'm marrying my girlfriend in the US, it's going to cost me another $1500 in fees to get her a legitimate visa, yet some want us to take half a million refugees using my tax dollars? Again, what the hell?

You can argue humanitarian aid, but at the same time, even Trump is talking about establishing safe zones in Syria for them as humanitarian aid, I'm fine with that. Hell, if Japan wanted to sent out soldiers to Syria to help protect the region, I'd be all for that.

More importantly, it's clear from Europe that their culture isn't compatible with most other countries, and it's not like they'll get off the plane and magically assimilate seamlessly. There will be problems, there will be crimes, there will be poverty on an already strained welfare system, all with zero benefit to citizens. Maybe a country like, I don't know, Indonesia? Turkey? You know, places that already have similar cultures should be taking in refugees from affected regions yet aren't.

Government's first priority should be to it's citizens, and all I can see is a huge cost burden to the tax payers, to bring in people who will provide no tangible benefit to the country, moreover will likely become a burden to the country negatively affecting the lives of citizens.
 
static said:
I've got a much more selfish reason I don't want them here...

I had to get a college degree, apply for a job, work my ass off, all while paying tons of bullshit fees (stupid re-entry permits, visa renewal fees, etc)... Why do they get in for free?
I'm marrying my girlfriend in the US, it's going to cost me another $1500 in fees to get her a legitimate visa, yet some want us to take half a million refugees using my tax dollars? Again, what the hell?

You can argue humanitarian aid, but at the same time, even Trump is talking about establishing safe zones in Syria for them as humanitarian aid, I'm fine with that. Hell, if Japan wanted to sent out soldiers to Syria to help protect the region, I'd be all for that.

More importantly, it's clear from Europe that their culture isn't compatible with most other countries, and it's not like they'll get off the plane and magically assimilate seamlessly. There will be problems, there will be crimes, there will be poverty on an already strained welfare system, all with zero benefit to citizens. Maybe a country like, I don't know, Indonesia? Turkey? You know, places that already have similar cultures should be taking in refugees from affected regions yet aren't.

Government's first priority should be to it's citizens, and all I can see is a huge cost burden to the tax payers, to bring in people who will provide no tangible benefit to the country, moreover will likely become a burden to the country negatively affecting the lives of citizens.
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Have you seen the footage of Aleppo? These people aren't leaving their homecountries for fun. Their lifes are in danger.
Not everyone has the privilege of being able to get their degree and apply and pay for a visa and whatever. If anything, we are the ones that have it easy.
 
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so you went to school and worked? im proud of you, that is really something special... guess what, so did everyboy else... actually i dont have any degree and managed to stay here... one up!

the farce herein is: we are talking about people who have to leave their countries, because otherwise chances are they might end up extremely dead... or poor, i know a lot of asians, who came to work, because they have to feed their families...
i dont know what it is with foreigners having a problem with other foreigners, but the people arguing against refugees and the lot usually got one reason for coming to japan, geeky trash, style, or pussy...
 
User#8628 said:
Have you seen the footage of Aleppo?
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I've seen in person how Arabs war on each other. To say it is unpleasant even at its "best" is beyond understatement. No war is ever "pretty" or "good". Its something to be avoided by traditional Western military and diplomatic theory. The thing is "our" standards don't apply in most of the world.

The civil war in Syria is now part of Cold War 2.0 and even if it weren't the butchery won't stop.
 
User#8628 said:
Have you seen the footage of Aleppo? These people aren't leaving their homecountries for fun. Their lifes are in danger.
Not everyone has the privilege of being able to get their degree and apply and pay for a visa and whatever. If anything, we are the ones that have it easy.
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Yep, I see it. I also fail to see why or how that's Japan's responsibility. Moreover, I don't see a reason why Japanese people's have to have their lives affected on their dime when there are other viable options.

vondoom said:
so you went to school and worked? im proud of you, that is really something special... guess what, so did everyboy else... actually i dont have any degree and managed to stay here... one up!

the farce herein is: we are talking about people who have to leave their countries, because otherwise chances are they might end up extremely dead... or poor, i know a lot of asians, who came to work, because they have to feed their families...
i dont know what it is with foreigners having a problem with other foreigners, but the people arguing against refugees and the lot usually got one reason for coming to japan, geeky trash, style, or pussy...
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Same question to you. People immigrate to a different country because they have a situation in their home country. I get that. I completely understand why people leave their country. What I don't see is why said country has any obligation to take them.
 
static said:
Yep, I see it. I also fail to see why or how that's Japan's responsibility. Moreover, I don't see a reason why Japanese people's have to have their lives affected on their dime when there are other viable options.
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It is not my responsibility if there is an earthquake in Nepal or a Taifun in Haiti. I still donate to help.
We sometimes do things without an obligation or responsibility, because it is the right thing to do.

I don't think it was ever an option or even discussion for Japan to take 500k or even 100k people. Realistically are maybe a few thousand and Japan could still pick specific groups. Not all refugees are Moslems, you could pick orphans, single mothers etc..
Taking refugees does not necessarily mean to take them in an uncontrolled manner. It also doesn't have to mean to take them permanently.
It surely would be great if they could stay a country in the region, where they have little language and cultural barrier, but which of the countries there would make a good host?
Sometimes little things add up, if many participate. I don't understand, why it's always black or white with no shades of grey in between?
 
RandomTokyoGuy said:
It also doesn't have to mean to take them permanently.
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I agree with many points you make but this is just incorrect. If a country takes refugees it will be for good. Especially if you take orphans or single mothers as you suggested; even if the war ends tomorrow where would they go?

Even if you take adults they will try to live a normal life in their new country and will get married and have kids. As these kids will be born in a new country they'll have nowhere to "go back".

These wars will not be over in a month or a year. The war in Somalia is well in it's third decade and the stream of refugees doesn't show any signs of stopping.
 
TheScientist said:
Though I'm not very observant any more, I'm still a Jew. One of the pleasures of that is I don't have to turn the other cheek.
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Although Judaism is the origin of Christianity and Islam, Jews are in a different category, they don't preach their religions to others and they don't try to convert anyone.
 
static said:
Yep, I see it. I also fail to see why or how that's Japan's responsibility. Moreover, I don't see a reason why Japanese people's have to have their lives affected on their dime when there are other viable options.
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hahaha :D
 
RandomTokyoGuy said:
It is not my responsibility if there is an earthquake in Nepal or a Taifun in Haiti. I still donate to help.
We sometimes do things without an obligation or responsibility, because it is the right thing to do.
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Yes, it's a voluntary action taken. There is no obligation, and no responsibility, which is my point. If Japan did take refuges, it should be seen as a gift, not an obligation.

It surely would be great if they could stay a country in the region, where they have little language and cultural barrier, but which of the countries there would make a good host?
Sometimes little things add up, if many participate. I don't understand, why it's always black or white with no shades of grey in between?
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Exactly what I think. How about Indonesia? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Iran? Israel (maybe not here...)? Malaysia? Turkey? These are all countries that have at least some cultural compatibility with the region, and are somewhat safe.
Or why do they need to be evicted? Protected safe zones in the region and let them stay in their country. No one even addresses safe zones.
 
static said:
Yes, it's a voluntary action taken. There is no obligation, and no responsibility, which is my point. If Japan did take refuges, it should be seen as a gift, not an obligation.


Exactly what I think. How about Indonesia? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Iran? Israel (maybe not here...)? Malaysia? Turkey? These are all countries that have at least some cultural compatibility with the region, and are somewhat safe.
Or why do they need to be evicted? Protected safe zones in the region and let them stay in their country. No one even addresses safe zones.
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Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey and Iran aren't arab countries.
Egypt is already hosting a lot of refugees, not only from Syria but also from Libya and since long from Palestine.
and I think those who would like to live in Saudi Arabia have already joined ISIS.
 
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More terror in Europe today from a 'refugee' with dead bodies still being counted.

Japan is so lucky not to have leaders like Merkel. She must be mentally insane to inflict such evil on her people.

Now we have to wait for the next terror outrage. Hopefully the security forces are more effective next time.
 
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TheScientist said:
The fact that these incidents keep happening in Europe don't give me much confidence on that.
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The security forces are monitoring thousands of people and finding terror plots on an almost daily basis throughout Europe so it is hardly news anymore. They are doing a good job trying to keep people safe.

The terrorists are happy if they succeed 1 percent of the time.
 
I'm amused that no one is focused on Japan's rapidly aging workforce, shrinking population and growing pension burden. People either need to start having 4 babies for couple or controlled migration won't be a choice for much longer.
 
MossBoss said:
The security forces are monitoring thousands of people and finding terror plots on an almost daily basis throughout Europe
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As we know from the last year or two, it almost doesn't matter since sharing information between agencies in one country barely works and sharing between countries is often illegal.
 
Exnocomment said:
I'm amused that no one is focused on Japan's rapidly aging workforce, shrinking population and growing pension burden. People either need to start having 4 babies for couple or controlled migration won't be a choice for much longer.
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What happens in 30 years when the migrants become old? Bring in a few more million to cover the now even bigger pension burden.....
 
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