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Tax deduction options for foreigners living in Japan?

Woah, you can probably live of that for one or two months, what are you supposed to do the rest of the year?
Exactly. The smart moves are:

1. Save cash - A very common attribute of the Japanese.
2. Invest in something that will give you returns until you pass away. (Financial products, property, etc.) - Or invest, build it up and cash out for retirement, etc.
3. Not ideal, but work longer past retirement (where possible)

I highly recommend #1 and now that virtual currency has been officially recognized as a financial instrument of value in Japan, it's another option to consider saving currency in to make it easily transferrable to other localities.
 
With that kind of pension Japanese nationals would be eligible for welfare benefits. And not surprisingly more than half of the people who receive them are older retired people.

Couple of years ago the Supreme Court rules foreign nationals are not eligible though.

So the pension system is limited to around 190,000yen a year for foreigners that have paid into it for 10 years? Wow, let's hope there will be improvements...
 
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So the pension system is limited to around 190,000yen a year for foreigners that have paid into it for 10 years? Wow, let's hope there will be improvements...

The maximum benefit for paying the full 40 years is less than 800.000 jpy per year. Less years paid mean less money received so ten years give you around 190.000 per year. They don't care if you are foreigner or not, it's the same for everyone.
 
The maximum benefit for paying the full 40 years is less than 800.000 jpy per year. Less years paid mean less money received so ten years give you around 190.000 per year. They don't care if you are foreigner or not, it's the same for everyone.

So basically, it will cover for your food and shelter (kind of) until you get a serious illness and then you are just fucked. Good to know.
 
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So the pension system is limited to around 190,000yen a year for foreigners that have paid into it for 10 years? Wow, let's hope there will be improvements...

The maximum benefit for paying the full 40 years is less than 800.000 jpy per year. Less years paid mean less money received so ten years give you around 190.000 per year. They don't care if you are foreigner or not, it's the same for everyone.

That's for the basic pension - kokumin nenkin - which is the bare minimum.

If you are on shakai hoken, you're also paying into kosei nenkin, and your pension will be much higher, dependent on what you've paid into it - usually works out to about 60-65% of your average salary if you pay in a full forty years, and is adjusted periodically for inflation as well.
 
If you are on shakai hoken, you're also paying into kosei nenkin

Well, that is not really correct. What you mean to say is if you pay into Kenkoo Hoken then you are also paying into Kosei Nenkin. But that is valid only for regular company employees. And even then in the case of foreigners even some big companies have been trying not to enrol them because the company has to pitch in too. That is also why in many cases you get offered contract based work or your work hours are set to be less than 75% of full employment.

People who don't get into Kenkoo Hoken through the company need to pay into Kokumin Kenkoo Hoken (which is also part of the larger context of shakai hoken) and so they are paying for their health insurance through the nose without the help of the company.
 
Well, that is not really correct. What you mean to say is if you pay into Kenkoo Hoken then you are also paying into Kosei Nenkin. But that is valid only for regular company employees. And even then in the case of foreigners even some big companies have been trying not to enrol them because the company has to pitch in too. That is also why in many cases you get offered contract based work or your work hours are set to be less than 75% of full employment.

People who don't get into Kenkoo Hoken through the company need to pay into Kokumin Kenkoo Hoken (which is also part of the larger context of shakai hoken) and so they are paying for their health insurance through the nose without the help of the company.

Your understanding is incorrect.

To get it straight, kenko hoken (健康保険) is the health insurance component of shakai hoken (社会保険), which itself consists of the aforementioned kenko hoken, kosei nenkin (厚生年金) - employee's pension, and koyohoken (雇用保険) - employment and disability insurance. The costs of shakai hoken are borne in equal parts by the employer and the employee, and are based on the employee's income. There is another scheme for school employees called shigaku kyousai (私学共済) which operates almost identically to shakai hoken.

If you are not eligible for shakai hoken (or your company is dodging the bullet), you must register for kokumin kenko hoken (国民健康保険), the NHI, the costs of which are borne entirely by the individual, and are also based on your income. You must also register for the national pension or kokumin nenkin (国民年金), for which contributions are roughly 15,000 yen per month flat rate.

They have also recently changed the laws for shakai hoken enrolment, so now if workers are employed for more than 20 hours per week or making more than 88,000 yen per month, companies are required to enrol them in shakai hoken. Initially this applies only to companies with 501 or more employees, but there is a schedule for this to apply to smaller companies over the next few years. As before, any company with more than five employees must enrol all full time employees into shakai hoken.
 
Your understanding is incorrect.

This was a very good description of the system and I haven't seen it in English before so kudos for @Sudsy and TAG in general for the discussion. Would not think a site for p4p would be the best resource for social security system :D

The only thing we differ in our explanations is that you think shakai hoken equals to only kenko hoken, kosei nenkin and koyohoken. This is not correct as shakai hoken is a more broader term and means in general the combination of medical insurance, pension and disability insurance. So then for example kenko hoken and kokumin kenko hoken are interchangeable parts of shakai hoken as are kosei nenkin and kokumin nenkin (though with that you can also participate in both).

Pretty simple description can be found for example here: https://hoken.azukichi.net/shaho.html
 
Before we go too much further with this, I should point out that I explain this system to clients' incoming foreign employees as part of my job.

The only thing we differ in our explanations is that you think shakai hoken equals to only kenko hoken, kosei nenkin and koyohoken. This is not correct as shakai hoken is a more broader term and means in general the combination of medical insurance, pension and disability insurance.

You just said (with my additions in italics), "you think shakai hoken equals to only kenko hoken (aka medical insurance), kosei nenkin (aka employee pension) and koyohoken (aka employment/disability insurance)"

then followed with

"shakai hoken is a more broader term and means in general the combination of medical insurance, pension and disability insurance. [/quote]"

I'm not sure where you think the difference is here, but you seem to think that "shakai hoken" equates to a general term for "social insurance". It does not - shakai hoken is a specific government social insurance scheme, with specific components and benefits.

[/quote]So then for example kenko hoken and kokumin kenko hoken are interchangeable parts of shakai hoken [/quote]

No they are not. You are enrolled in one or the other, never both. If you are self employed, a low-hours part time worker, or unemployed, you are not eligible for coverage under shakai hoken or shigaku kyousai. Kokumin kenko hoken is the system for people who are not eligibile for coverage under those schemes, and is not part of shakai hoken, at all. It states quite clearly in the page you linked: "会社勤めの人なら健康保険、自営業者・短時間労働者・無職の人などは国民健康保険に加入することになります。"

as are kosei nenkin and kokumin nenkin (though with that you can also participate in both).

Pretty simple description can be found for example here: https://hoken.azukichi.net/shaho.html

They are separate. Again, says so in the page you linked. "会社勤めの人なら厚生年金保険、自営業者・短時間労働者・無職の人などは国民年金に加入することになります。"

Here's a fairly comprehensive explanation in English for you - http://www.nic-nagoya.or.jp/en/e/archives/4775
 
I'm not sure where you think the difference is here, but you seem to think that "shakai hoken" equates to a general term for "social insurance". It does not - shakai hoken is a specific government social insurance scheme, with specific components and benefits.

Yes, that's exactly what I think. And no, you still have not convinced me otherwise. Do you have a source for the claim that shakai hoken is a specific term meaning only kenko hoken etc. and not including for example kokumin kenko hoken?

I just talked to a Japanese office admin, who admittedly is not specialised in these matters, but she said companies normally use the word shakai hoken to refer to what they offer (kenko hoken/kosei nenkin) but that it is a lax use of the more general term.

The one official paper I remember immediately using the word is the tax report which asks you to write down the 社会保険の種類 which you have paid and kokumin kenko hoken certainly certifies there.

No they are not. You are enrolled in one or the other, never both.

That's what I was thinking I was saying when I said they are interchangeable components. Sorry. My excuse is, if it is not obvious yet, that neither English or Japanese are my native languages.
 
Yes, that's exactly what I think. And no, you still have not convinced me otherwise. Do you have a source for the claim that shakai hoken is a specific term meaning only kenko hoken etc. and not including for example kokumin kenko hoken?

You mean like the ones I linked in my post above? Which specifically say that kenko hoken and kokumin kenko hoken are separate?

There are three social insurance schemes in Japan.
  • Shakai Hoken 社会保険 Employees’ Health & Pension Insurance (EHPI). Consists of both a health insurance and a pension component.
  • Kokumin Kenko Hoken 国民健康保険 National Health Insurance (NHI)
    Government health insurance scheme primarily for the unemployed or self-employed. Available from your ward/local city office. Those not enrolled on shakai hoken must also enrol.
  • Shigaku Kyousai 私学共済Private Schools Mutual Aid Society Insurance
    Similar to shakai hoken, but for those working in private schools and universities.

I just talked to a Japanese office admin, who admittedly is not specialised in these matters, but she said companies normally use the word shakai hoken to refer to what they offer (kenko hoken/kosei nenkin) but that it is a lax use of the more general term.

The one official paper I remember immediately using the word is the tax report which asks you to write down the 社会保険の種類 which you have paid and kokumin kenko hoken certainly certifies there.

To be fair, it can also be used in a more general context, such as in sociology - but when referencing the social insurance schema in Japan, shakai hoken specifically refers to the company employees' scheme. If it is being offered by a company, it is the shakai hoken scheme - and that is the correct name for it. The kokumin kenko hoken and kokumin nenkin schemes are private affairs that are not offered by the company.

That's what I was thinking I was saying when I said they are interchangeable components. Sorry. My excuse is, if it is not obvious yet, that neither English or Japanese are my native languages.

Understood. In this context, "interchangeable" would mean that you could choose one or the other as part of the broader scheme, which you cannot. And it's not obvious that you are not a native speaker of English - for a non-native speaker you have an impressive command of the tongue!
 
You mean like the ones I linked in my post above?

Yeah, but those were English pages; never trust anything written about Japanese systems not written in Japanese :p.
To be fair, it can also be used in a more general context, such as in sociology

So there you go; being trained in mathematics I now claim total correctness on my part. :ROFLMAO: Though if I was honest I would confess I've never realised the most common usage of that term is very specific to the company scheme. Thanks for taking the time to get my thinking corrected!

you have an impressive command of the tongue!

That's what the girls say to me too! :cool:
 
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For a minute there I thought MikeH was going to turn out to be Solong from the legendary thread about taxes :)

It is not polite to kick a man when he is already down. I might have failed my way to solong but I did try my best! :D

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