The Next US President is....

[static]

Just read Biden is trying to regulate nicotine now.. He wants to make it so tobacco companies can't put an addictive amount in cigarettes.

I really don't want to live on this planet anymore. *sigh*

 

[Sudsy]

Just read Biden is trying to regulate nicotine now.. He wants to make it so tobacco companies can't put an addictive amount in cigarettes.

I really don't want to live on this planet anymore. *sigh*

Yeah, they should just get serious and make the production, sale, or import of tobacco illegal.

And then replace the tobacco plantations with weed farms after legalising marijuana at the federal level.

Nobody's going to miss tobacco after that.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I'm set to replace @Keihan as the go to guy for politics on this site now.
I say this as there have been a lot of local body elections going on recently, and I've had candidates coming to me left right and center for support. I feel like the puppet master.
His experience is out of date now. Mine is up to date.
Sure rural Hokuriku is not quite Washington DC, but the basics are the same.

And to be sure, the candidate I eventually supported (well, basically told my wife who to vote for), came in 3rd with about 250 votes and is now on the village council.

 

[Frenchy]

I'm set to replace @Keihan as the go to guy for politics on this site now.
I say this as there have been a lot of local body elections going on recently, and I've had candidates coming to me left right and center for support. I feel like the puppet master.
His experience is out of date now. Mine is up to date.
Sure rural Hokuriku is not quite Washington DC, but the basics are the same.

And to be sure, the candidate I eventually supported (well, basically told my wife who to vote for), came in 3rd with about 250 votes and is now on the village council.

you’re a king maker! Respect

 

[static]

Yeah, they should just get serious and make the production, sale, or import of tobacco illegal.

And then replace the tobacco plantations with weed farms after legalising marijuana at the federal level.

Nobody's going to miss tobacco after that.

Or they could just leave me alone and let me kill myself in peace. I've got a marijuana vape on my desk, and a pack of cigarettes in the car. I prefer the cigarettes personally. However, that's the crux of the issue. I'm apparently not allowed to have a preference anymore, because the crown has determined what my preference will be. I mean shit, I like Asian girls, but apparently in today's America that makes me a racist too! *sigh*

I get it, don't steal from other people. Cool. Don't hurt other people. Also cool. Government should be there to ensure people don't hurt each other. (which, as we discussed earlier isn't often the case). However, when they get in the business of discussing what I'm allowed to do to my own body? Yea, fuck those people. And no, second hand smoke does not fall under that "not harm other people thing," anymore than McDonalds is responsible for the half a million people a year that die in the US from heart disease. I try to be courteous when I smoke in public. I try and move away from a crowd of people, I blow smoke away from people as much as possible and when there are kids near by, I always hold my cigarette away from them until they've gone past. However, when I'm sitting next to a public ash tray and people walk by making coughing sounds, or ask me to smoke somewhere else? Yea, they can fuck right off.

 

[Sudsy]

Or they could just leave me alone and let me kill myself in peace.

That's the thing though - smokers aren't "killing themselves in peace". Smoking related illnesses are long term debilitations before they're lethal, and they cause financial distress to the families of smokers, put pressure on the medical system, and lower worker productivity.

second hand smoke does not fall under that "not harm other people thing,"

Of course it does, that's been proven quite conclusively, despite tobacco industry lobbies. More than 40,000 people a year die in the US from exposure to second hand smoke.

Government should be there to ensure people don't hurt each other.

And this is the other side of the coin - marketing and selling an addictive substance that is intrinsically harmful when used as intended is pretty much "people hurting other people".

If you want to play the "what I'm allowed to do to my own body" card, I would still support your right to grow and roll your own if that's what you really want to do.... as long as you smoked it away from other people.

 

[Keihan]

Or they could just leave me alone and let me kill myself in peace. I've got a marijuana vape on my desk, and a pack of cigarettes in the car. I prefer the cigarettes personally. However, that's the crux of the issue. I'm apparently not allowed to have a preference anymore, because the crown has determined what my preference will be. I mean shit, I like Asian girls, but apparently in today's America that makes me a racist too! *sigh*

I get it, don't steal from other people. Cool. Don't hurt other people. Also cool. Government should be there to ensure people don't hurt each other. (which, as we discussed earlier isn't often the case). However, when they get in the business of discussing what I'm allowed to do to my own body? Yea, fuck those people. And no, second hand smoke does not fall under that "not harm other people thing," anymore than McDonalds is responsible for the half a million people a year that die in the US from heart disease. I try to be courteous when I smoke in public. I try and move away from a crowd of people, I blow smoke away from people as much as possible and when there are kids near by, I always hold my cigarette away from them until they've gone past. However, when I'm sitting next to a public ash tray and people walk by making coughing sounds, or ask me to smoke somewhere else? Yea, they can fuck right off.

You basically just explained to yourself why you should never vote Democrat again, ever. The same assholes who spent their youths hollering such slogans as, "FREE LOVE" and "QUESTION AUTHORITY" and "FUCK THE GOVERNMENT" and "MY BODY MY CHOICE" are all grown-up and gray now and running the Democratic Party of America and pushing for unprecedented growth of the federal government, federal regulations, federal taxes and federal bureaucratic takeover of state and municipal protocols. And for anyone who doubts it, wait another month or so for the Democrats in Congress and the Biden Admin to push for more federal vaccine mandates which will essentially amount to forced vaccination (like the "vaccine passports" they're starting with now, baby steps) for all American adults and, eventually, children, in order to have any sort of meaningful inclusion into society again.

Now, I'm not saying I'm for or against such efforts. Truth be told, I despise cigarette smokers and would be very quietly pleased if the government banned smoking cigarettes anywhere in public and, better, start executing anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers and basically all tourists traveling for pleasure right now. But I never claimed to have a conscience or moral/ethical compass...or, at least, based my decisions on such things. I'm just saying, if that's how you truly feel, then you have two choices: Vote with your conscience and vote Libertarian, or vote pragmatically and vote Republican. But you should never be voting Democrat again.

 

[Frenchy]

Truth be told, I despise cigarette smokers and would be very quietly pleased if the government banned smoking cigarettes anywhere in public and, better, start executing anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers and basically all tourists traveling for pleasure right now.

I love your unusual mix of Republicanism and North-Korean style of problem solving. It’s refreshing

 

[Keihan]

I love your unusual mix of Republicanism and North-Korean style of problem solving. It’s refreshing

I'm the poster child for bi-partisanship.

 

[Keihan]

I'm set to replace @Keihan as the go to guy for politics on this site now.
I say this as there have been a lot of local body elections going on recently, and I've had candidates coming to me left right and center for support. I feel like the puppet master.
His experience is out of date now. Mine is up to date.
Sure rural Hokuriku is not quite Washington DC, but the basics are the same.

And to be sure, the candidate I eventually supported (well, basically told my wife who to vote for), came in 3rd with about 250 votes and is now on the village council.

Do candidates in Japan actually go door-to-door, or call your home phones? I never got to experience any of that while living there. The closest I got was watching the uyoku vans and candidates ranting and raving about foreigners at the train station, which I have to admit was pretty entertaining.

I actually enjoy when some poor nervous intern kid from a campaign phone-bank ends up calling my house with whatever stupid scripted nonsense question/plea he/she has written on a notecard. "Ex-ex-excuse me, sir, could I t-t-tr-trouble you for moment to ask if you'll be supporting....," is how they usually start. Over the years I've tested a number of offensive responses, with varying levels of success.

If I'm busy or in a bad mood: "HUH? OF COURSE NOT, I DON'T VOTE FOR [insert applicable racial epithet here]."

If I've got more time and it's a young female, I like to start with something like: "SURE, NO PROBLEM AT ALL! BUT FIRST, MAY I ASK YOU...HAVE YOU EVER HAD SEX WITH AN ASIAN GUY?"

If it's a male: "NO PROBLEM, BUD. BUT FIRST I MUST INFORM YOU...I'VE GOT THREE, ROCK HARD INCHES OF TOKYO THUNDER IN MY LEFT HAND AND YOU SOUND HOT AS FUCK. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED ANAL?"

Once, I remember telling the girl she had just interrupted my masturbation session and asked if she'd hold on while I finished. Cheeky bitch actually stayed on the line, but not entirely sure if she was legitimately shocked or calling my bluff. I ended up just hanging up as it wasn't fun anymore.

And no, I don't feel bad. I've been on the opposite end of that phone call thousands (literally) of times back in the day. I've been called every offensive thing imaginable. I paid my dues, so I have no problem helping these kids to pay theirs.

 

[MikeH]

If I've got more time and it's a young female

The only time that ever happened to me it was a survey of some kind for the coming elections. It was Sunday and I was actually about to go to vote to my embassy for our elections so I decided to have a bit of fun with her.

She asked me first if I was planning to vote and I said sure, definitely will do. Then she got a bunch of general questions which I was happy to answer and then we got to the main points. What do you think about party A doing this or that? I have no idea. Would you then vote for party B? Nope, will not vote for them. Who you will vote then? Told her and received a long silence as she most probably had never heard about that party.

She then started another line of questions but I got bored and told her that I do not follow Japanese politics because I do not have the right to vote. She was silent again for a bit, probably thinking prisoner or something but then manned up and asked why? I told her "because I am a foreigner" to which she immediately blurted "no, you're not!".

To be honest that got me a bit confused.

 

[Keihan]

I told her "because I am a foreigner" to which she immediately blurted "no, you're not!".

Impressive that your Japanese is that good! I can get about a sentence and a half in before the average Japanese figures out there's something wrong. Given my appearance, they usually make the illogical deduction that I must be Chinese, which generally elicits a particularly unfriendly reaction ranging from subtle apprehension to utter revolt. But on the bright side, it does keep the racist types from bothering me any further. But I'm still waiting for one of those variety show street reporters to make the mistake of interviewing me on camera one day so I can prove that no matter what color or creed, Americans truly are ignorant, racist bigots.

 

[Frenchy]

Impressive that your Japanese is that good! I can get about a sentence and a half in before the average Japanese figures out there's something wrong. Given my appearance, they usually make the illogical deduction that I must be Chinese, which generally elicits a particularly unfriendly reaction ranging from subtle apprehension to utter revolt. But on the bright side, it does keep the racist types from bothering me any further. But I'm still waiting for one of those variety show street reporters to make the mistake of interviewing me on camera one day so I can prove that no matter what color or creed, Americans truly are ignorant, racist bigots.

The good spot for that is in front of Shimbashi station among the smoking ojisans near the old locomotive exhibit. For some reasons TV crews are often there asking questions to passer bys.

 

[Keihan]

The good spot for that is in front of Shimbashi station among the smoking ojisans near the old locomotive exhibit. For some reasons TV crews are often there asking questions to passer bys.

Funny you mention that, my other half was just talking about going to a restaurant in Shimbashi whenever we're able to go back again. I'm going to remember this. Of course she'd probably murder me at the hotel for embarrassing her on live Japanese television.

In Osaka, the interview hot-spot was always around Hep 5 Plaza in Umeda or of course the Dotonbori in Namba, but Osakans are such morons who want to act like idiots on tv that there's always a crowd pushing and shoving for the chance to get interviewed next.

 

[MikeH]

The good spot for that is in front of Shimbashi station among the smoking ojisans near the old locomotive exhibit. For some reasons TV crews are often there asking questions to passer bys.

And for a good effect you can always pick up a Chinese massage girl after your interview is over, and be caught on their camera doing it too.

 

[static]

That's the thing though - smokers aren't "killing themselves in peace". Smoking related illnesses are long term debilitations before they're lethal, and they cause financial distress to the families of smokers, put pressure on the medical system, and lower worker productivity.

And this is the other side of the coin - marketing and selling an addictive substance that is intrinsically harmful when used as intended is pretty much "people hurting other people".

Okay, so any foods with additives, gone. Coffee and soda should be gone, after all, caffeine is more addictive than nicotine, and is linked to heart attacks. We should get rid of pesticides too, since long term exposure causes cancer. Sport should be gone too, since contact sports cause brain damage long term, and non-contact sports even cause joint damage, muscle damage, etc. We should ban marriage too, since it's one of the things that causes insanity long term. Oh, second hand only? All those should be banned by that logic, since parents effectively force-feed their kids garbage causing irreparable damages during puberty. Not like a kid living at home with their parents have any control over their diet.

This is the problem; literally everything causes some type of long term damage. When does it stop? More importantly, why do you feel government has the right/authority to dictate those actions?

Of course it does, that's been proven quite conclusively, despite tobacco industry lobbies. More than 40,000 people a year die in the US from exposure to second hand smoke.

Do you really think it's only the tobacco lobby that's fudging results for an agenda in this fight? A very simple thing. You say 40k a year die from second hand smoke. Long term causes are the most difficult to diagnose. Suppose you have someone in their 60's who died of lung cancer. Now, they grew up in a home with someone who smoked. They also grew up on a farm in the 70's when we were still using DDT. They spent time in Japan / China in the 90's, where smog was so bad you needed those oxygen stations. It's impossible to tell which caused the lung cancer, If someone says they can definitively say it was second hand smoke that caused it, they're full of shit.

If you want to play the "what I'm allowed to do to my own body" card, I would still support your right to grow and roll your own if that's what you really want to do.... as long as you smoked it away from other people.

I'd hope you'd find this argument insane if it attacked some facet of your life you cared about. Say, alcohol should be banned because alcohol related driving deaths kills 300k a year. We should completely ban the sale of alcohol in public. If you want to drink, you have to make your own, and only drink it in your house.

 

[static]

You basically just explained to yourself why you should never vote Democrat again, ever.

Completely agree, except 30 years ago it was the Republicans and the religious right who were pushing to ban everything. Before them it was the hippies. Authoritarianism doesn't know party lines. It's why I'm more libertarian in my principles / beliefs rather than supporting a party. The Libertarian party is a joke... 2016 was the year for Libertarians to become mainstream, but no. Their candidate was Gary Johnson with closet authoritarian Weld running with him. And the Libertarian convention was some naked dude coming out on stage to celebrate freedom. You had Donald Fucking Trump, a New York Democrat who had the entire media against him, and Hillary Fucking Clinton, one of the most bi-partisanly hated women in modern day politics. A trained monkey could have beat either of those candidates, and the libertarians STILL fucked it up. Hell, the Green party even had a chance, except we had Jill "Wifi causes cancer" Stein.

*sigh* And it's not like Jorgensen was any better. It blows me away because every single time we have an election and think "350 million people and *this* is the best we can do? REALLY?!"

Now, I'm not saying I'm for or against such efforts. Truth be told, I despise cigarette smokers and would be very quietly pleased if the government banned smoking cigarettes anywhere in public and, better, start executing anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers and basically all tourists traveling for pleasure right now. But I never claimed to have a conscience or moral/ethical compass...or, at least, based my decisions on such things. I'm just saying, if that's how you truly feel, then you have two choices: Vote with your conscience and vote Libertarian, or vote pragmatically and vote Republican. But you should never be voting Democrat again.

I've never voted Democrat, except in situations where it's two Democrats running against each other (I live in the People's Republic of California).

Truth be told, I'd be quietly pleased if government imposed limits on the types of people allowed to expose skin. We could use the jiggle test. If you're walking, and every step produces a wobble that jiggles more than 3 times, you don't get to expose your midriff.

I don't wanna see this kind of shit... ever. This is more disgusting than cigarettes.

 

[Keihan]

Completely agree, except 30 years ago it was the Republicans and the religious right who were pushing to ban everything. Before them it was the hippies. Authoritarianism doesn't know party lines. It's why I'm more libertarian in my principles / beliefs rather than supporting a party. The Libertarian party is a joke... 2016 was the year for Libertarians to become mainstream, but no. Their candidate was Gary Johnson with closet authoritarian Weld running with him. And the Libertarian convention was some naked dude coming out on stage to celebrate freedom. You had Donald Fucking Trump, a New York Democrat who had the entire media against him, and Hillary Fucking Clinton, one of the most bi-partisanly hated women in modern day politics. A trained monkey could have beat either of those candidates, and the libertarians STILL fucked it up. Hell, the Green party even had a chance, except we had Jill "Wifi causes cancer" Stein.

*sigh* And it's not like Jorgensen was any better. It blows me away because every single time we have an election and think "350 million people and *this* is the best we can do? REALLY?!"

It's actually quite disturbing how much you sound like me when I'm not surrounded by other politburo types.

Want to know something even more ironic? Following the election of Obama 2008, I was so disgusted with the GOP for that trainwreck of a ticket they came up with (Palin) that I actually joined the Libertarian Party. Card-carrying jagoff. But as always, the Libertarians managed to display just how irreparably stupid they are so I tossed my card, re-registered with the GOP in 2010 and re-joined the ranks of the entry-level operatives. Fast-forward six years and once again the GOP so enraged me by not being able to contain Trump and [what I thought would be] handing the election to Hillary, I once again broke ranks, joined some other GOP operatives in the Never Trump movement and voted for Gary Johnson. Yes, Gary Fucking Johnson. The idiot who went on HULU and let Triumph the Insult Comic Dog humiliate him. And then of course Trump won so I kept quiet about who I voted for, put on my red MAGA hat and re-joined the festivities. And holy dogshit, it was one hell of a fucking party before COVID brought everything crashing down around us. But of course, by that point my Never-Trumper past caught up to me and the MAGA crazies demanded I be booted from the party. Again.

I'm like an abused woman. No matter how bad the GOP fucks up, I keep crawling back to them because they at least tickle my twat before throwing me another beating.

 

[static]

It's actually quite disturbing how much you sound like me when I'm not surrounded by other politburo types.

Want to know something even more ironic? Following the election of Obama 2008, I was so disgusted with the GOP for that trainwreck of a ticket they came up with (Palin) that I actually joined the Libertarian Party. Card-carrying jagoff. But as always, the Libertarians managed to display just how irreparably stupid they are so I tossed my card, re-registered with the GOP in 2010 and re-joined the ranks of the entry-level operatives. Fast-forward six years and once again the GOP so enraged me by not being able to contain Trump and [what I thought would be] handing the election to Hillary, I once again broke ranks, joined some other GOP operatives in the Never Trump movement and voted for Gary Johnson. Yes, Gary Fucking Johnson. The idiot who went on HULU and let Triumph the Insult Comic Dog humiliate him. And then of course Trump won so I kept quiet about who I voted for, put on my red MAGA hat and re-joined the festivities. And holy dogshit, it was one hell of a fucking party before COVID brought everything crashing down around us. But of course, by that point my Never-Trumper past caught up to me and the MAGA crazies demanded I be booted from the party. Again.

I'm like an abused woman. No matter how bad the GOP fucks up, I keep crawling back to them because they at least tickle my twat before throwing me another beating.

True be told, In 2008, I was really hoping Obama was going to do good for the country. But that was the key thing that moved me well away from the left, is the pure and utter bullshit they kept making up. The 2008 crash was Bush's fault, nevermind that it was policy created by Clinton and Bush Sr. that caused the crash. Bush started the war in Iraq, never mind that it was Clinton who gave Bin Laden a pass. Obama issued the least number of executive orders! Correct, except he used presidential memos instead, which are the same as executive orders. Add those up, and those of previous presidents and he's one of the highest. Obama deported more illegals than anyone. Sure, he also changed what counted as a deportation, to include those turned away. Obama earned the nobel peace prize~!... Except he was bombing people literally every day he was in office. That's my problem with the left, is they keep making shit up, changing definitions, and just flat out lying about shit. Trump's presidency was seriously making me question my own sanity with how much shit people were making up about him. It's like dude, seriously, you can be honest and talk plenty of shit about Trump. But when you make shit up about him, you become worse. People say he's a Russian agent, yet can't name a single thing that Russia benefited from with Trump as president. It's not like Trump handed the Ukraine over to Russia or anything, or sold them weapon's grade uranium or anything like that. People say he was an authoritarian, yet can't name any authoritarian policies he enacted. They say he's a racist, yet the only actual racist thing he's done was back in the 70's. Yes, he said stupid shit. Yes, he enjoyed causing chaos in the white house. Talk shit on that stuff. Don't make up some bullshit story about how Trump dumped his Koi feed in the pond like a brute, offending Abe and almost causing an international incident when he hugged him later.

People say shit like "The right does it too!" but I don't see it. I mean shit, look at the riots over the past year. The right has one run on capital hill on Jan 6th. The right protesting was breaking into Pelosi's office and taking selfies with their feet on her desk, and a half naked dude dressed as an Indian walking down the halls. Compare that to CHOP/CHAZ where a group of people from the John Brown Gun Club took over a 4 block radius around the capital building in Seattle. People were shot, killed; women raped, stores robbed, millions in property damage, for several weeks. That's ONE of the riots. That's not counting the other riots in almost every major city that have been going on, quite literally every day since last April.

I'm libertarian in my beliefs, but I vote for the GOP because they're the closest ones to actually doing things I support, like lowering taxes, or deregulation. It's like deciding to get punched in the stomach by a bucktoothed wildebeest of a woman who'll give me a handy later, vs getting kicked in the balls and having my wallet stolen by a Nigerian tout in Kabukicho.

 

[Sudsy]

Okay, so any foods with additives, gone. Coffee and soda should be gone, after all, caffeine is more addictive than nicotine, and is linked to heart attacks. We should get rid of pesticides too, since long term exposure causes cancer. Sport should be gone too, since contact sports cause brain damage long term, and non-contact sports even cause joint damage, muscle damage, etc. We should ban marriage too, since it's one of the things that causes insanity long term. Oh, second hand only? All those should be banned by that logic, since parents effectively force-feed their kids garbage causing irreparable damages during puberty. Not like a kid living at home with their parents have any control over their diet.

All of these are piss poor examples and you know it.

• Food additives that are proven unsafe are generally removed from the market - remember how bright red maraschino cherries used to be? Red Dye #4 was banned.
• Coffee and soda are, unlike tobacco, perfectly safe at reasonable consumption levels.
• Pesticides that are unsafe like DDT are, again, removed from market.
• Sport in general has a net positive on overall fitness and longevity, but there is a strong argument for not allowing certain contact sports at younger ages, and American Football in particular as the padding leads to unreasonably hard hits causing brain damage that you don't see in (unpadded) rugby players.
• You may have a point with marriage, though.

This is the problem; literally everything causes some type of long term damage. When does it stop?

The problem is that the tobacco industry feeds this kind of slippery slope argument to people as part of their efforts to continue marketing the a product that has no safe dosage.

More importantly, why do you feel government has the right/authority to dictate those actions?

You said it yourself- "Government should be there to ensure people don't hurt each other." The tobacco industry's days are numbered.

 

[MikeH]

You may have a point with marriage, though.

I believe most studies show that being married raises the life expectancy of both men and women above those that are unmarried. Would be interesting to find out if it is the same for couples with and without kids as one would think having the responsibility of raising up brats would make you behave more responsible and for example going to health checks more often.

 

[static]

All of these are piss poor examples and you know it.

• Food additives that are proven unsafe are generally removed from the market - remember how bright red maraschino cherries used to be? Red Dye #4 was banned.
• Coffee and soda are, unlike tobacco, perfectly safe at reasonable consumption levels.
• Pesticides that are unsafe like DDT are, again, removed from market.
• Sport in general has a net positive on overall fitness and longevity, but there is a strong argument for not allowing certain contact sports at younger ages, and American Football in particular as the padding leads to unreasonably hard hits causing brain damage that you don't see in (unpadded) rugby players.
• You may have a point with marriage, though.

No, they aren't piss poor, they're just ones you have no problems allowing. Until you don't. Caffeine, as I stated, is more addictive than nicotine, and has been linked to heart problems. Sugar, obviously has been linked to diabetes. Obesity, linked to heart problems. Alcohol, linked to liver problems. All of those problems kill substantially more people than second hand smoke does. Alcohol causes 5 times as many deaths of others per year as your second hand smoke statistics. Most all pesticides cause health problems over the long term. The extremely harmful ones like DDT were removed, but the remaining ones aren't exactly safe for human consumption either.

My point remains. Virtually everything around you has the potential to cause you long term harm. You tolerate certain things because they're convenient or desirable to you. That's generally how it starts

The problem is that the tobacco industry feeds this kind of slippery slope argument to people as part of their efforts to continue marketing the a product that has no safe dosage.

You said it yourself- "Government should be there to ensure people don't hurt each other." The tobacco industry's days are numbered.

Glad to see you support authoritarianism. I'll remember that when the next version of organized crime rises up to fill the void of the tobacco industry and we get more drug wars.

 

[Sudsy]

I believe most studies show that being married raises the life expectancy of both men and women above those that are unmarried.

He postulated effects on sanity, not longevity.

 

[MikeH]

He postulated effects on sanity, not longevity.

The group selection is biased, anyone getting married is insane to begin with.

 

[Sudsy]

No, they aren't piss poor, they're just ones you have no problems allowing. Until you don't.
Sugar, obviously has been linked to diabetes. Obesity, linked to heart problems. Alcohol, linked to liver problems. All of those problems kill substantially more people than second hand smoke does. Alcohol causes 5 times as many deaths of others per year as your second hand smoke statistics. Most all pesticides cause health problems over the long term. The extremely harmful ones like DDT were removed, but the remaining ones aren't exactly safe for human consumption either.

My point remains. Virtually everything around you has the potential to cause you long term harm. You tolerate certain things because they're convenient or desirable to you. That's generally how it starts

Glad to see you support authoritarianism. I'll remember that when the next version of organized crime rises up to fill the void of the tobacco industry and we get more drug wars.

And now you're moving the goalposts.....

Caffeine, as I stated, is more addictive than nicotine, and has been linked to heart problems.

"Addictiveness" is unquantifiable. There are more people who have caffeine dependencies than nicotine because there are more coffee and tea drinkers than smokers, but nobody can say with quantifiable evidence which substance is "more" addictive. People in general have an easier time quitting coffee than smoking/snus though. . As to the links between caffeine and heart disease, there are no conclusive studies as of yet, but moderate consumption has been shown to be harmless.

Sugar, obviously has been linked to diabetes.

Yes, this is becoming apparent despite the sugar producers' efforts to subvert research proving this and sugar's links to heart disease since the 60s. But moderate consumption is not harmful.

Obesity, linked to heart problems.

You're losing track here - obesity is not a substance that you can control.

Alcohol, linked to liver problems.

Again, moderate consumption is relatively harmless, and can even carry health benefits.

There is no level of consumption of tobacco products that can be considered safe or harmless.