The world of asshole mongers

[majimekun]

Just read this article :
'Do you ever think about me?': the children sex tourists leave behind
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ists-leave-behind-fathers-visited-philippines

A couple of excerpts:

He visited at least twice a year and often saw Aiza. When, after a few visits during which he had been her “regular”, she told him she was pregnant, he said he had already paid for the sex: it was her fault if she got pregnant.
...
The man goes on to wryly acknowledge his own transgressions: “I took an unopened box of 40 condoms with me to AC, I came home with an unopened box of 40 condoms.”
...
David told Nely he would support the child if she would pay for a DNA test to prove paternity, though he also offered her money for an abortion.

 

[User#8628]

David told Nely he would support the child if she would pay for a DNA test to prove paternity, though he also offered her money for an abortion.

That seems fair actually. Not to be a cunt but it could simply be a scam.
Or maybe girls aim to get pregnant because they think the guy will take them to their country or something?

I think both parties are responsible for birth control. If the guy pressured a lot for no condom sex, he is obviously an asshole. But him bringing condoms suggest otherwise. Its always a good idea for a girl to go on some secondary birth control as well if possible.

Not blaming the girl here but if its an accident and the guy offered compensations I don’t see why he’d be an asshole per se.

 

[majimekun]

Common, you surely know that the women in those places don't have the money for birth control and DNA tests right?

Guys coming from a rich country and do nothing to prevent these women from becoming pregnant despite the fact that they are the ones who have the money.

This is exploitation on a totally new level here.

That seems fair actually. Not to be a cunt but it could simply be a scam.
Or maybe girls aim to get pregnant because they think the guy will take them to their country or something?

I think both parties are responsible for birth control. If the guy pressured a lot for no condom sex, he is obviously an asshole. But him bringing condoms suggest otherwise. Its always a good idea for a girl to go on some secondary birth control as well if possible.

Not blaming the girl here but if its an accident and the guy offered compensations I don’t see why he’d be an asshole per se.

 

[User#8628]

Birth control is available to sex workers in poor countries also, and with prices different from the west.
Dna test, yeah they are pricey. But he would have probably agreed to paying for the test since he even offered to pay for an abortion.

 

[majimekun]

But he would have probably agreed to paying for the test since he even offered to pay for an abortion.

"David told Nely he would support the child if she would pay for a DNA test to prove paternity, though he also offered her money for an abortion."

You obviously don't understand English very well.

 

[MikeH]

If the guy pressured a lot for no condom sex, he is obviously an asshole.

And I would say that regardless the girl gets pregnant or not.

I find the article a bit accusatory against foreign guys, but that's nothing new. What I have talked with working girls in Philippines most of them have the first baby by a local guy when they are just 15-18 and when the guy suddenly disappears after getting the news the girls think the best option is to turn to sex work. The article claims 40-50% of the girls have their first kid from a foreign monger and I call that number just a pure bullshit.

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

Birth control is available to sex workers in poor countries also, and with prices different from the west.

Depo shots are even provided free in Philippines or for under 300 yen if you go to a private clinic. The most inexpensive pill version costs less than 100 yen a month.

The bigger problem is that there just isn't a condom culture there. Of the 15 or so filipinas I've had sex with in the last year (p4p and otherwise) nearly half would have not even batted an eyelash at going bareback without any pressure on them at all.

 

[majimekun]

YUCK

The bigger problem is that there just isn't a condom culture there. Of the 15 or so filipinas I've had sex with in the last year (p4p and otherwise) nearly half would have not even batted an eyelash at going bareback without any pressure on them at all.

 

[MikeH]

The bigger problem is that there just isn't a condom culture there. Of the 15 or so filipinas I've had sex with in the last year (p4p and otherwise) nearly half would have not even batted an eyelash at going bareback without any pressure on them at all.

It's a catholic country.

 

[Simonka]

This article reminded me of a documentary I had watched a while ago. It’s not as accusational as the article above and puts the effort in being inclusive of different perspectives:



This documentary is about children fathered by sex tourists. Sex without protection is a BAD idea: Antiretroviral medicines like PrEP can have side effects and birth control is not 100% effective. And unless a girl is really naive, she should know better than trusting a guy who assures her he had a vasectomy in the past.

However these girls are overworked to the point of exhaustion and they’re picked up from bars after a long night of drinking with clients. You need to be well rested and alert when you’re meeting a client because your never know who’s going to attempt stealthing.. alcohol is a depressant, it can have long term affects on general & mental health. As a result girls who consume huge amounts of alcohol are unsurprisingly under the risk of engaging in dangerous sex acts at some point. They simply don’t have the same living standards a high end escort from a developed country is privileged to have. It’s not very baffling to me that these girls occasionally fall pregnant under these circumstances..

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

Also these girls are really misled to think that the "hygiene" that they report to weekly is giving them any meaningful std check. In reality its just a vaginal smear with a visual check that might give an indication of a bacterial infection of some kind.

I'm in fairly regular touch with a bargirl (like many a sad life story: widowed last year with a 6 year old daughter being raised by her sister in the province) there and while she tells me she's personally 100% insistent on condoms (and always explicitly requested them with me in the past), even if she's truthful I know from experience that many of her peers leave the decision totally up to the customer (and just try to jump on nama unless the customer stops them in some cases).

 

[Glock]

I agree with both @User#8628 and @MikeH that while it is very irresponsible behavior by the mongerers not to do their part in misadventures, it is the job of these bar girls to ensure that they insist on protection.

Their inability to not enforce this makes them equally culpable in damning their future off spring as they are grasping for fantasies of a mongerer to take responsibility. I respect catholic traditions, but condoms and birth control is something they have to be on par with. The children who are a result of this are off course at no fault but the article is biased in just demonizing just the men when it is the women who should also be held accountable for their rash decision making.

This goes for both p4p and non p4p where if a girl is allowing nama, then a guy should not follow through unless the relationship is of the nature where there is a future, but even if he does the girl should fully accept the fact that the guy can also do a ghost which is equally on her for allowing that.

This ofcourse does not cover for condom breaks and rape cases etc... In which case it is a completely different situation.

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

The article claims 40-50% of the girls have their first kid from a foreign monger and I call that number just a pure bullshit.

Its since come out that this quote is sourced unverified from a Philippines mongering forum.

 

[Lars Lust]

I agree with both @User#8628 and @MikeH that while it is very irresponsible behavior by the mongerers not to do their part in misadventures, it is the job of these bar girls to ensure that they insist on protection.

This is of course true in our world. But this is another world. Like most members of TAG, I have no idea what it really means to be poor and uneducated, with a most likely hopeless future. But I have seen enough to know that this is not a symmetric relationship. These men, sleaze-bags or not, are in possession of resources on a completely different level from most bar girls. Of course, they have to protect themselves, but as human beings they should also feel a responsibility to try to protect the lives and futures of much less powerful women they spend time with. Call me moralistic, but that's what I think.

 

[Durg50]

Their inability to not enforce this makes them equally culpable in damning their future off spring as they are grasping for fantasies of a mongerer to take responsibility. I respect catholic traditions, but condoms and birth control is something they have to be on par with. The children who are a result of this are off course at no fault but the article is biased in just demonizing just the men when it is the women who should also be held accountable for their rash decision making.

Are you serious? Equally cupable? Held acvountable for rash desicion makimg?

Yes if you are talking about a male and female in a developed country with comparable economic and social stability / privilges then you’ve got a point.

But you genuinely think that a lady from a village somewhere is SE Asia with little education and very little prospect of financial security is equally culpable here? They are letting these guys fuck them for money because that’s the best way for them to make money. Very unlikely the dreamt about that life when they were growing up. If you ejaculate in a woman’s vagina without protection you are 100% responsible for the resulting kid.

 

[User#8628]

This goes for both p4p and non p4p where if a girl is allowing nama, then a guy should not follow through unless the relationship is of the nature where there is a future, but even if he does the girl should fully accept the fact that the guy can also do a ghost which is equally on her for allowing that.

Well there is other birth control than condoms as well, though i agree they should be worn outside of a relationship.

 

[User#8628]

To be honest I didn’t read the article but shops and girls are a community and they usually offer some guidance about birth controls, lubes and everything. It she was working in an establishment, she would have likely have gotten some advice.

If a guy puts verbal pressure on a girl or even physical then it’s definitely their fault but girls should at least not just hop on. I think most TAG guys have made some unreasonable decisions like that in the past.

Now, is mongering in a 3th world country unethical? (Even though it does help some women out i suppose.)
Is mongering as a whole unethical except for maybe a few special arrangements?
Do you have to pay child support when you make a girl pregnant or did you do your part when you offer to pay for an abortion?
Those are some hot topics.

 

[User#8628]

Antiretroviral medicines like PrEP can have side effects

Totally agree. I don’t think i would ever take PrEP. If i assume someone has a high hiv risk, i will rather not sleep with them.
This stuff must wreck your body and maybe to some people an unprotected sex binge is worth it but I don’t see it.

 

[User#8628]

I talked to a Philippine pub woman in Japan and she told me she had abortions without anesthetics in the past to save money. I can’t imagine how horrible it would be... but would it really be impossible to avoid those situations?
No matter what, she went through it though and its undeniably sad and horrible.

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

I talked to a Philippine pub woman in Japan and she told me she had abortions without anesthetics in the past to save money. I can’t imagine how horrible it would be... but would it really be impossible to avoid those situations?
No matter what, she went through it though and its undeniably sad and horrible.

Fortunately the situation is improving with regards to access to inexpensive birth control. The church still has an undeniably huge amount of influence though.

 

[Glock]

@Durg50 i totally agree with you on this front that the guy is an asshole and total sleaze bag to act this way. And while I'm lucky to not have to experience their desperation and poverty I also believe that in this dy and age of information and seeing from how their mothers were a similar victim they should understand the consequences.. Ofcourse again I can only say from my perspective.

But I still stand by the fact that a girl going into mongering in these poor countries should keep to that and play safe rather than risk it all in the hope that some sleazy irresponsible may be mongerer would save them and sweep them off their feet. She can still earn money and at the same time be safe. Again this may be my naivety however the honey trap angle cannot be ignored. Anyways just my humble opinion and not meant to oppose or cause conflicts here

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

@Durg50 i totally agree with you on this front that the guy is an asshole and total sleaze bag to act this way. And while I'm lucky to not have to experience their desperation and poverty I also believe that in this dy and age of information and seeing from how their mothers were a similar victim they should understand the consequences..

Having known a few bargirls in my time and having visited their homes, with respect you may know the consequences but when you or your family have no food to eat you start making compromises.

 

[MongerInAStrLnd]

Also the bargirls go into the business for wildly varying reasons and their attitudes towards birth control and sexual health are obviously all over the map as a result.

 

[Durg50]

Now, is mongering in a 3th world country unethical? (Even though it does help some women out i suppose.)
Is mongering as a whole unethical except for maybe a few special arrangements?
Do you have to pay child support when you make a girl pregnant or did you do your part when you offer to pay for an abortion?
Those are some hot topics.

No
No
Yes

 

[User#8628]

Ok so, even if someone gets someone pregnant, its not the end of the world ok.
If he offered to pay for an abortion, that would be a good solution. Of course, maybe mentally to go through especially if she is of Catholic faith.
If she wants to keep it, i’d say still get the abortion money to get through for a while and then raise the kid as good as possible. There are many one parent families and deadbeat parents. If they get love from their mom they should be more than fine imo. There are people without parents at all.
Yes, they will look different and without a father in sight they will get judgement. But on the other hand, if its from a white guy, light skin and big eyes are popular in the Philippines.

These things happen, also in first world countries. One has got to make the best of it.

Weather naive or an attempt to honey trap, i think hope is not lost for a pregnant woman or the child. Sure its a tough country to raise children in but that also goes for children of local men.