Tobita Experiences And Questions

I'm sorry Zaphod, I was not taking part in the discussion between you and Meiji at all. Frankly, as far as I am concerned, you are both welcome to your opinions, which I wouldn't specifically advocate either way, knowing that the only thing I can do starts and ends entirely with me (though my position may be similar to either of your positions). I went well out of my way to hint at this. No, my response regarded safety and testing (in places like Tobita) and, though I did not include the quote, had to do with the OPs question about how to protect oneself. It was in no way directed at toward you and I apologize if you felt so.
 
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I simply said that nama honban has always been considered beyond the red line, with everybody in the scene I ever talked to.

Without discussing the relative safety involved, I have to say that either you aren't paying attention to the scene, or you aren't talking to very many people. Bareback is quite common in the hobby, despite the fact that the safety of it is hotly debated here (obviously) and elsewhere. I've seen all sorts of posts on other boards where someone posts something about a provider giving BBFS, and then gets dozens of private messages asking the identity of that provider. People don't want to admit publicly that they do it, but it happens. And generally they don't want to admit it publicly because there's other providers that research hobbyists in question, and won't see them if they engage in certain behaviors.

There's been numerous reports on this board not only regarding the KDHs, but also a lot of the Universe Club girls being more than willing to consider condom usage optional.

There's even a Japanese website out there I found when researching soaplands that lists which soaplands provide nama honban, the percentage of girls there that provide it, which ladies provide it, and what 'code' the soapland operator uses to indicate that it's available (usually a star or lack thereof in the ladies profile). From the list I've seen, there aren't too many soaplands where all the girls utilize condoms all the time (this might be different for foreigners, of course).

So....dangerous? Yes. Taboo? Yes. "beyond the red line"? I guess it depends on if you are defining 'red line' as unacceptable, or merely taboo. It happens all the time. People just don't talk about it much.
 
Just my 2c on UC...

Most of the girls I have dated have insisted on using a condom, the only one that appeared OK without I made sure we did use one.

I actually found that encouraging, at least given my stance on BBFS.

SN...
 
Bareback is quite common in the hobby, despite the fact that the safety of it is hotly debated here (obviously) and elsewhere. I've seen all sorts of posts on other boards where someone posts something about a provider giving BBFS, and then gets dozens of private messages asking the identity of that provider. People don't want to admit publicly that they do it, but it happens. And generally they don't want to admit it publicly because there's other providers that research hobbyists in question, and won't see them if they engage in certain behaviors.

Based on multiple sources of insider or semi-insider information, I can confirm what meiji says above. Bareback services are routinely provided on a low profile basis to at least some clients and in some circumstances by many (perhaps most) sex-workers, including many who deny that they do so in public forums and who do not do BB with some of their less prized or more dubious customers or unless they are pressured/encouraged to do so by a client. This was true even back during the days of maximum alarm over AIDS and appears to be even more prevalent currently.

-Ww
 
Based on multiple sources of insider or semi-insider information, I can confirm what meiji says above. Bareback services are routinely provided on a low profile basis to at least some clients and in some circumstances by many (perhaps most) sex-workers, including many who deny that they do so in public forums and who do not do BB with some of their less prized or more dubious customers or unless they are pressured/encouraged to do so by a client. This was true even back during the days of maximum alarm over AIDS and appears to be even more prevalent currently.

-Ww

If you guys are trying to turn people off the hobby, you are doing a good job. I will certainly be more careful in giving public advice to keijiban possibilities etc. here.
 
If you guys are trying to turn people off the hobby, you are doing a good job. I will certainly be more careful in giving public advice to keijiban possibilities etc. here.

It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that we should refrain from posting what we know about the (statistical) prevalence of bareback sex in the p4p world in order to encourage people to "hobby" by keeping them misinformed. However, I assume that is not what you actually mean.

-Ww
 
would never do it bareback. i have never been in the Scene before but i think i will try tobita next time in Japan.
can somebody who was already there explain how exactly the Service there works? is it possible to Change positions with the Girl and also touch the Body during intercourse? does the Girl gets completely naked and is it a darker room or lid up?
 
i have never been in the Scene before but i think i will try tobita next time in Japan.
can somebody who was already there explain how exactly the Service there works? is it possible to Change positions with the Girl and also touch the Body during intercourse? does the Girl gets completely naked and is it a darker room or lid up?

If you don't speak Japanese, things may be kind of tough, but I'll try to give you the run-down if you don't speak any (this is all based on my experience with a girl there, but my Japanese is enough to at least talk to her during playtime):

1. Tobita is very much a red-light district, where you see the 'goods' and if they are willing get to pick from the lot. It's a bunch of 2-story buildings where the 1st story is where the guys window-shop, and the 2nd story is where all the action happens. You walk down the street, and there will be young ladies sitting in an open-air entry-way, they'll possibly smile at you, and the mamma-san sitting on the side will call out to you 'dozo', which essentially means 'welcome' in this case. If you like what you see, great, if not, move on. If you look up the area on Google Street View, you can kind of see the layout (I wonder if the Google driver drove by there when they were shut for New Years or something on purpose...).

2. If you like what you see, just walk up to the entry-way, maybe smile and nod. If you know enough Japanese to say "Hello" and "I don't speak much/any Japanese", use it - it's probably best if you set their expectations early. You'll take a few steps up, the girl will indicate at some point to take off your shoes, which you need to do, and put on some slippers that very likely will be several inches too short for your feet. Follow her up the stairs.

3. She'll lead you to her room. Take off the slippers before entering her room. The room will probably have a low table for sitting on the floor, and a small futon. The windows will be covered, but there's light in the room. She'll probably indicate to sit at the table. She'll bring you some tea and maybe a few cookies.

4. The business happens at the table. In many places in Tobita, they've gotten enough foreigners that they just have a price list there. Time and the cost. You can just point at the time you want. It's not cheap.

5. Then the girl will lead you over to the futon. She'll probably take off her dress or whatever she's wearing. The girl I was with just had a long sweater thing and stockings. She left the stockings on, which was fine with me. Again, unless you know Japanese, you probably aren't going to be able to negotiate such things, and at Tobita it's not really a GFE thing so you aren't gonna be able to get in a lot of wardrobe requests anyway.

6. She'll clean you up with an alcohol towlette and put on a condom for a CBJ. Then it's more or less whatever positions you want in my experience, depending on your language skills. I had no problems having her change positions or touching her normally, but I wouldn't try something that would usually require permission. You might get some mileage regarding changing positions with hand gestures. Regardless, be gentle and have a sense of humor. If you dont get off or she doesn't do what you want, don't get super-pissed off. You are representing all foreigners here, and if you throw a fit, this org and many others might decide foreigners aren't worth it.

I very much doubt that any of these girls speak much English, so definitely don't count on it. They are likely all from lower classes in Osaka, so, while not dirt-poor, they certainly aren't spending a lot of time buying Gucci handbags and going to Bali, either. The girl I was with said she'd never been to Tokyo before, much less travelled outside of Japan. Obviously it's best to have enough Japanese for transactional purposes. Greeting the women there and knowing what to say before and during playtime certainly puts them more at ease.
 
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@meiji: thanks for your great and informative post. i can read Hiragana and Katakana and i do know some Basic words and phrases. maybe that helps. i will try tobita for sure next time, but because this Kind of experience will be my first, i guess i will be totally nervous and hope that everything goes well. the Girls there were all so beautiful and i hope i will not be too ashamed. :)

do you know how much the Services did cost and if Prices are all the same around the place? i remember that most pricelists on the entrance said 8000-11000 Yen...but i guess These are Prices for the japanese Folks. not that after going up with the Girl i see the Prices are too high^^
 
another thing iam wondering is, will the same Girls as in 2013 be still there in 2016? or are they changed every once in a while? what do you think how it does work in Tobita? i hope there are still some awesome ones left in 2016. :)
 
another thing iam wondering is, will the same Girls as in 2013 be still there in 2016? or are they changed every once in a while? what do you think how it does work in Tobita? i hope there are still some awesome ones left in 2016. :)

It really depends on the girl. In many cases, the girls only work there temporarily. They are also saying that there's going to be a big red light district cleanup coming for the Olympics, but I don't know if that's going to affect Osaka as much as it is close-by places like Kabukicho in Shinjuku.
 
ok what does that exactly mean?
i hope it does not affect tobita in 2016...
 
So I just stumbled across this forum, I'm intokyo and l just got rooked in kabukicho last night. I'm traveling to Kyoto on Friday and would to avoid this pitfall.

Any tips to not get screwed over again?
 
So I just stumbled across this forum, I'm intokyo and l just got rooked in kabukicho last night. I'm traveling to Kyoto on Friday and would to avoid this pitfall.
Any tips to not get screwed over again?

How did you get "rooked" in Kabukichou, and what does "rooked" mean, anyway? Thanks
 
Ha, rooked means I got taken. I fell for the picture book and paid the guys that's took me to a hotel, then I had to pay even more for the hotel... Then I was informed the money I gave them was just to bed led there and it didn't cover any of the girls... I know better, but they got me. I'm just trying to stay away from any known gimmicks that they might play in Kyoto... Or better yet what I can expect. Are the soaplands Foreigner friendly in Kyoto?
 
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Cuzzo9,
if you are willing to pay some strangers cash up front to let them take you to some dubious hotel, then you are ripe to get ripped off anywhere in the world.
 
Fair enough... This was my first time to a country where I couldn't communicate...and I was easy pickings.
 
So I just stumbled across this forum, I'm intokyo and l just got rooked in kabukicho last night. I'm traveling to Kyoto on Friday and would to avoid this pitfall.

Any tips to not get screwed over again?


Do your research, research and research before hitting the area. Check all the threads here to see what you are looking for. Then you probably wouldn't get rooked.
 
man i hope there are still awesome Girls there in tobita in 2015/2016. :)

@meiji: do you have any Information on the red light district cleanup? how much are Prices in tobita anyways? what did you pay?
 
@meiji: do you have any Information on the red light district cleanup? how much are Prices in tobita anyways? what did you pay?

I don't have any real info on it. I doubt Tobita will be affected as much by the impending Olympics as, say, Kabukicho will be.

Pricing is pretty expensive, even for Japan. I think I paid about 20,000 yen for a half hour.
 
I doubt Tobita will be affected as much by the impending Olympics as, say, Kabukicho will be.
I didn't even think about that. Another reason to hate the Olympics.
 
Ha, rooked means I got taken. I fell for the picture book and paid the guys that's took me to a hotel, then I had to pay even more for the hotel... Then I was informed the money I gave them was just to bed led there and it didn't cover any of the girls... I know better, but they got me. I'm just trying to stay away from any known gimmicks that they might play in Kyoto... Or better yet what I can expect. Are the soaplands Foreigner friendly in Kyoto?
Well, to answer your initial question, just don't do again what you did... That is going with any unknown touts.. True as well in Paris (pigalle), london (Soho) etc..
Read this forum, and a few others, and you will be safe.
I don't know of any gaijin friendly soapland in Kyoto, but perhaps others do?
 
I don't have any real info on it. I doubt Tobita will be affected as much by the impending Olympics as, say, Kabukicho will be.

Pricing is pretty expensive, even for Japan. I think I paid about 20,000 yen for a half hour.

i think 20.000 Yen is ok. and i cant wait till 2015. thats when my next trip to Japan takes place. :)
 
1. Tobita is very much a red-light district, where you see the 'goods' and if they are willing get to pick from the lot. It's a bunch of 2-story buildings where the 1st story is where the guys window-shop, and the 2nd story is where all the action happens. You walk down the street, and there will be young ladies sitting in an open-air entry-way, they'll possibly smile at you, and the mamma-san sitting on the side will call out to you 'dozo', which essentially means 'welcome' in this case. If you like what you see, great, if not, move on. If you look up the area on Google Street View, you can kind of see the layout (I wonder if the Google driver drove by there when they were shut for New Years or something on purpose...).

2. If you like what you see, just walk up to the entry-way, maybe smile and nod. If you know enough Japanese to say "Hello" and "I don't speak much/any Japanese", use it - it's probably best if you set their expectations early. You'll take a few steps up, the girl will indicate at some point to take off your shoes, which you need to do, and put on some slippers that very likely will be several inches too short for your feet. Follow her up the stairs.

Your description of Tobita sounds very much like what happens in a number of huge red light districts in Seoul, Korea. Cheongnyangni 588 and around Gireum train station has this style, except its on a massive scale. Literally the entire neighborhood, too many buildings to count, are full of P4P houses and mama-sans standing outside to invite customers in to check out their ladies. I wonder if the style was imported from Korea or exported to Korea. The Korean price is 6,500 yen (equivalent and on average) for 1 hour.

Another bit of info, in the Korean red light districts (away from "foreigners"), going bareback is a well known practice. Condoms are optional and it's usually up to the customer to decide. Koreans in those districts use washing and anti-bacterial wipes (special?) to disinfect before and afterwards. In this regard too, I wonder if this custom was imported from or exported to Korea.
 
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