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What is "being butch?"

Sorry, English is not my native language. I thought "butch" is a unisex term... I meant to say bulky, muscular.


I'm sure karate is giving you similar benefits. There's no substitute for lifting heavy in my opinion, but you can really improve your fitness and strength with the calisthenics most martial arts provide.

I am fit, if that is what you mean. And some of the serious Karate guys do go to gyms. But they train for quick, explosive power. Big, bulky weightlifter muscles would actually be a disadvantage in Karate, at least in my style.
 
When you join a sports club the staff will give you a work out plan and show you how to do the exercises. They stress low weight and are scared stiff of injury - I'd say most people are wasting their time but I guess it's better than pachinko. I'm by far the strongest person there and I'm not really that strong.

Of course there are exceptions to the above. There are local government gyms which are cheap and have good facilities some with very good free weights.

I go to Gym everyday and rest on Sundays, except when for some reason I cant go during the week and take the Sunday to recover my frequency. My Gym stresses to keep trying to increase weight. Example three sets of 10. When you lifted 10-10-10, increase another brick or the half bricks and you should normaly be lifting 10-10- any lower than 10; when the third is 10...lift another brick. I would not suggest local goverment gyms unless the intersted person is well experienced in training as there is no staff in such facilities.
 
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Sorry, English is not my native language. I thought "butch" is a unisex term... I meant to say bulky, muscular.




I am fit, if that is what you mean. And some of the serious Karate guys do go to gyms. But they train for quick, explosive power. Big, bulky weightlifter muscles would actually be a disadvantage in Karate, at least in my style.
From my perspective a 5X5 will benefit anyone in martial arts, as it won't build bulky muscles. You really need steroids to build muscles big enough to seriously restrict agility.

Then again karate demands different techniques for. What I'm used to. I primarily studied Krav Maga which is a lot different as well.
 
I go to Gym everyday and rest on Sundays, except when for some reason I cant go during the week and take the Sunday to recover my frequency. My Gym stresses to keep trying to increase weight. Example three sets of 10. When you lifted 10-10-10, increase another brick or the half bricks and you should normaly be lifting 10-10- any lower than 10; when the third is 10...lift another brick. I would not suggest local goverment gyms unless the intersted person is well experienced in training as there is no staff in such facilities.
Government gyms? Sounds interesting.
 
Government gyms? Sounds interesting.

Our taxes pay for that. In addition to national tax, everybody here pays local tax, which (in addition to the unavoidable bureacratic pork) pays for things such as local sports centers, which are free or a very cheap for local residents. They are nice and well equipped, including machine gyms and martial arts rooms.
 
Our taxes pay for that. In addition to national tax, everybody here pays local tax, which (in addition to the unavoidable bureacratic pork) pays for things such as local sports centers, which are free or a very cheap for local residents. They are nice and well equipped, including machine gyms and martial arts rooms.
It's got to be nice to access that for free.
 
I am sure lifting weights and similar is beneficial, but it is just so friggin boring, I could never make myself do it.

I started Gym almost a year ago just to get rid of my Gyudon belly and to get myself off the computer and have more physical activity and move the body. Absolutely nobody believed me when I said: "I want to train everyday" (rest Sunday only, have to take 1 day off at least), not the Gym trainers not my work partners not my friends. Yet I accomplished my goal and keep up to this day. I enjoy Gym a lot after excersice. Because all trainers actually realised that I was being serious from the start, they split my workplan to 上半身 (じょうはんしん) 下半身 (かはんしん) Upper / Lower. The days I do upper, I finish training and get into shower. When I start to wash my hair, I manage to place the shampoo but when I try to lift my fingers, my arms barely reach my ears...And that feels so good that Im always giggling alone in the showers. And when I do Lower, I end up walking after training like if my shoes weighted 5kg each for the rest of the night and the next day until I start to move at work.

That feeling has become my addiction.
 
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So why do you have a Karate avatar? Don´t you want to replace it with something like this?

th
 
Gym customers are like a salad. You have Body Builders, Marathon Athlets, Cyclists, Power Lifters, Dancers, Sportsmen, etc. Not everybody that goes to Gym aims to become the Japanese Schwarzenegger. My avatar aint just a ramdon figther, its Raiden from Mortal Kombat...(knowing you had read my other posts about China) who wasnt given a nationality I think, but has Chinese/Asian features, not to mention that I love the videogame and his background. There are Martial Arts Fighters in my Gym too, it cannot be too far from your grounds. In the past when younger I did Shorin Ryu Shidokan and Taekondo but Im more keen to Ninjutsu.
 
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Gym customers are like a salad. You have Body Builders, Marathon Athlets, Cyclists, Power Lifters, Dancers, Sportsmen, etc. Not everybody that goes to Gym aims to become the Japanese Schwarzenegger. My avatar aint just a ramdon figther, its Raiden from Mortal Kombat...(knowing you had read my other posts about China) who wasnt given a nationality I think, but has Chinese/Asian features, not to mention that I love the videogame and his background. There are Martial Arts Fighters in my Gym too, it cannot be too far from your grounds. In the past when younger I did Shorin Ryu Shidokan and Taekondo but Im more keen to Ninjutsu.
Well said.
Carlos Pesina, the guy who played Raiden in MKI, lifts heavy. I remember a video with him doing barbell rows.

I myself lift heavy but I also run. I started lifting heavy when I was learning how to walk during physical therapy, primarily squats. Then I just stuck with it. I haven't gotten bulky but I'm a lot healthier. It helps with running too it feels like.
 
Keiji, You're dedication is fantastic but I'm concerned that you're over training. You do each of upper and lower 3 times a week? You really need a rest day between those for your body to rebuild.
Perhaps you could do:
  • day1: push (chest, shoulders, triceps(上腕三頭筋))
  • day2: pull (back, biceps( 上腕二頭筋))
  • day3: legs
  • day4: rest
  • day5: upper
  • day6: lower
  • day7: rest
At my gym the change room is upstairs, after leg day I can barely walk up the stairs.
 
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My trainers did ask me like 5 times the first half year if I was okay. Everytime I answered yes and looked at them funny, as in why wouldnt I be fine. I also omited that I join the excercise studio courses.
* Tuesdays is ビギナーエアロ (Beginner Aerobics)/ ストレッチポール (Streching?) and ストリートダンス (Street Dance)
* Fridays is ウェーブストレッチ&ヨガ (Stretching and Yoga)
* Saturdays ベーシックエアロ and ストレッチヨガ. (Basic Aerobis and Stretching Yoga)

Because since I got my program split into two...I feel awkwad for training less than 3hs (the moment I get inside the Gym to the moment I leave the Gym, including wear changes, bath, protein drinking). I must be over-over-training. I just came from reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_training
Im surprised none of my trainers ever mentioned that to me. I shall ask about this tomorrow. Im counted as a "regular" customer and I already recognise other people who are training all days non-stop.

The 3 per 3 a week, sometimes for un-avoidable reasons some times I end up resting 2days instead of my intended 1day rest, but I mostly keep up the 3-3. I find it strange that I dont have any symptoms or at least none that can be seen from outside.
 
My trainers did ask me like 5 times the first half year if I was okay. Everytime I answered yes and looked at them funny, as in why wouldnt I be fine. I also omited that I join the excercise studio courses.
* Tuesdays is ビギナーエアロ (Beginner Aerobics)/ ストレッチポール (Streching?) and ストリートダンス (Street Dance)
* Fridays is ウェーブストレッチ&ヨガ (Stretching and Yoga)
* Saturdays ベーシックエアロ and ストレッチヨガ. (Basic Aerobis and Stretching Yoga)

Because since I got my program split into two...I feel awkwad for training less than 3hs (the moment I get inside the Gym to the moment I leave the Gym, including wear changes, bath, protein drinking). I must be over-over-training. I just came from reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_training
Im surprised none of my trainers ever mentioned that to me. I shall ask about this tomorrow. Im counted as a "regular" customer and I already recognise other people who are training all days non-stop.

The 3 per 3 a week, sometimes for un-avoidable reasons some times I end up resting 2days instead of my intended 1day rest, but I mostly keep up the 3-3. I find it strange that I dont have any symptoms or at least none that can be seen from outside.
From an American perspective you are severely overtraining. 45 mins to one hour tops per day, never working the same muscle groups two days in a row.
Thought I'd just echo what Psd said.

It's actually during rest and recovery that you build strength and muscle.
 
Oh I forgot to mention withing the 3hs that I do:
*10 minutes bicycle for warm-up.
*15 minutes of warm-up stretching
*Excersices.
*20 minutes of bicycke cool-down.

If I should be training 45mins to 1h per day...how am I supposed to do my program. Between the warm-up and cooldown there is already 45 minutes...and 15 minutes left for excercise is impossible for me. Today I did Upper menu.

* Bench Press
* Inclined Bench Press
* Lat Pull Down
* Biceps.
* Triceps.
* Shoulders.
* Abdominals.

I cant do all that in 15 minutes. I think today my excersive started at 7pm (entered gym at 6.30, then the 25 mins warm-up) and finished Abdominals somewhere around 8pm...then the 20minutes bicycle cooldown, shower (I spend like 20 minutes under shower but thats because Im a water-person, I enjoy being covered by water, swimming, etc), dressing-up and drinking protein while talking to other people I left Gym around 9pm or maybe 8.50pm or 8.45pm.

Both menus upper and lower stress abdominals because I wanted from the start to get rid off my belly, when upper I do 3 sets of 15. When lower I do 45 Hyper 3 sets of 15 and then Abubenchi 3 sets of 15 again. I think my sleep-dream time will be worried this night.
 
Oh I forgot to mention withing the 3hs that I do:
*10 minutes bicycle for warm-up.
*15 minutes of warm-up stretching
*Excersices.
*20 minutes of bicycke cool-down.

If I should be training 45mins to 1h per day...how am I supposed to do my program. Between the warm-up and cooldown there is already 45 minutes...and 15 minutes left for excercise is impossible for me. Today I did Upper menu.

* Bench Press
* Inclined Bench Press
* Lat Pull Down
* Biceps.
* Triceps.
* Shoulders.
* Abdominals.

I cant do all that in 15 minutes. I think today my excersive started at 7pm (entered gym at 6.30, then the 25 mins warm-up) and finished Abdominals somewhere around 8pm...then the 20minutes bicycle cooldown, shower (I spend like 20 minutes under shower but thats because Im a water-person, I enjoy being covered by water, swimming, etc), dressing-up and drinking protein while talking to other people I left Gym around 9pm or maybe 8.50pm or 8.45pm.

Both menus upper and lower stress abdominals because I wanted from the start to get rid off my belly, when upper I do 3 sets of 15. When lower I do 45 Hyper 3 sets of 15 and then Abubenchi 3 sets of 15 again. I think my sleep-dream time will be worried this night.
I didn't realize a lot of the time was warm up/ cool down. I thought you were lifting weights for three hours straight. Your routine is a lot different from what I was thinking. I only spend maybe five minutes warm up and five mins cool down, so I thought you were doing dozens of sets with hundreds of reps.

But with that said take my advice with less than a grain of salt. You know your body and if you are getting stronger. I'm no expert. You know what works for you. I just like to talk about exercise.
 
Keiji, you're daily program is about right. 45 min for the heavy lifting is a commonly recommended time, plus warm ups etc. Some people say that any more is bad for you, but if you can keep up intensity, I do 60min to 90min.

I'm still a little confused. Tues, Fri, Sat you do classes? Mon, Wed, Thurs you do weights?

My concern is the rest periods between workouts. You will certainly lose weight doing that but you probably are not getting any stronger or bigger muscles, especially if you're over 40. But if Friday's stretching and yoga is not very intensive that's not so bad.
Both menus upper and lower stress abdominals because I wanted from the start to get rid off my belly,
No, that doesn't work. You cannot target belly fat (or anywhere else) with exercise. To get rid of belly fat you have to lose body fat, belly fat is the last place men lose fat. Just think of abs as just another muscle exercise. One group of 3 sets on one day is enough (eg on upper or lower day).

Don't stress! What you're doing is good and admirable, just I think it can use a bit of tuning. Maybe when you reach your weight goal cut back to 5 days of training.
 
I didn't realize a lot of the time was warm up/ cool down. I thought you were lifting weights for three hours straight. Your routine is a lot different from what I was thinking. I only spend maybe five minutes warm up and five mins cool down, so I thought you were doing dozens of sets with hundreds of reps.
But with that said take my advice with less than a grain of salt. You know your body and if you are getting stronger. I'm no expert. You know what works for you. I just like to talk about exercise.

In my routine, I can choose the stretching time (I have enhanced it from avergare recommendation, normaly it would be 10mins, but I do 15mins because Im very precautious). Same goes for cooldown excersice, this will also be in reply with PSD. My trainer told me that what helps to lose the belly is leg excercise which explains why I do 20mins cooldown and not the average 10mins normally recommended. But yes, its awkard that despite what I was told in my gym, I still ended up with 3 different excersices for abdominals. This is something I will ask tomorrow.

You are not by any chance talking about Tipness in Gotanda? That would be funny.

No, that is not my Gym and I dont live in Gotanda. But wouldnt mind checking it out. Everytime I go to another city and I find a gym, I enter to take a visitor tour even while informing that I already train somewhere else, the staff doesnt seem to care and will still show me around. Does Tipness have a webpage and a map?

[...]I'm still a little confused. Tues, Fri, Sat you do classes? Mon, Wed, Thurs you do weights?

My concern is the rest periods between workouts. You will certainly lose weight doing that but you probably are not getting any stronger or bigger muscles, especially if you're over 40. But if Friday's stretching and yoga is not very intensive that's not so bad.[...]

Everyday I do "kintore" weight lifting and on Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, once Im done with kintore (I "yuusen" give priority to weight lifting) I also enter the Studio. So for example my average Tuesday goes: Kintore + Aerobics + Stretching + Street Dance. Sometimes on Sundays I do two other courses. Mondays, Wednesdays also have Studio courses but they start from 18.00hs and I dont want to lose energy I would use for Kintore so for now Im not joining those. I was planning to join those like: Step Dance once I get a more fit body.

Im just turned 33, started at mid 32s.


Of course... I tookd this matter to my trainer today. After doing "arubaito" (dont know how to say this in English) at a ぎょうしゃ (Gyousha?) Transportation service, the kind of agency that helps civilians to move their belongings when they change home, only that I was ask to help office moving at Toyota. You all know training at Gym is expensive with the monthly fee, protein drinks, training wear, etc.
And after carrying heavy boxes during the whole day...today was my Lowet training day...kahanshin.

I will now proceed to tell my entire talk I had with my trainer. My gym has 4 types of trainers: Leader, Subleader, Pro Trainer and regular Trainer. Today I just happened to find the Leader of all trainers free, and the Sub-Leader was free to, but the Leader was closer.

He told me that there are 3 easy ways to find out if somebody is "OVER-TRAINING":

* Injuries, doesnt have to be at Gym. We all adults know what kind of accidents cause what kind of injures. If an accident causes you an injury that is way too high grade...then yout body is losing resistance and he gave me the explample of the typical cut that you just resolve with a "band-aid" and if something that is a small accident causes you an injury which would almost look too much, then that would be an easy way to think of Overtraining.

* The balance between "taiju shibou", "shibou" and "taiju" and "kinniku" = fat weight?, fat, weight and muscle.

If somebody is losing weight and at the same time loses muscle = that is normal.

If somebody is keeping same weight and at the same time loses muscle = then that is due to Overtraining.


* Also, if in your own weight-lifting menu, your score is decreasing, that is due to Overtraining, but then, I keep adding weight to my program with the same performance pattern so that makes me be in the safe side.

An extra fourth (which Im grateful to find out about it) is that my "mokuteki" goal? was to lose my belly and "karada igokishitai" become physicaly active?...and not exclusively Power Lifting or Body Building. Its usually in these last two type of Gym customers that Overtraining is more common. Im happy to know that because thanks to this thread and the talk I just had with my trainer that I can actually shift my Mokuteki to enhance my physical shape, so coming next year I will be changing mokuteki to body size enhancement and look bigger instead of just karada ugoki.


Then, he told me Programs can be selected to up to 5 splits (I only do 2 splits at the moment), and adding an extra split to a person becomes common on customers who had been training for years long and specificaly aiming for Power Lifting. Starters (shushinshas) are more likely to start with a single program that has no split.

Also that each program is different to each person because it is all customized to the body LEVEL and the FREQUENCY that person come to Gym.

Next two points can also be in reply to PSD's las reply which I didnt read until I finished todays training.

* Regarding Studio Excersice, he told me that I dont need to worry if I keep summing them up with kintore because they are not exacly kintore but a different type of excersice.

* People's reaction to repetitive training a same excersice for a specific area is different, some people might find this practice to be positive or improved condition...while others might result in negative and deteriorate condition. That it depends on each person.


Lastly, I asked if there was a way I could keep checking my body like going to hospital and have a doctor check me. My trainer answered that there is no way to scan Overtraining. Each person should self-analise based on how he/she feels genki/tsukare = okay or tired. Which in Japanese it is said 感覚 かんかく kankaku.


An extra easy way to check if somebody is Over-training (which would be the 5 method to check, sorry for the bara-bara reply) would be the loss of interest to continue the excersices and the will to come training. Like making excuses or not come for whatever reason.


I hope this information becomes useful to all of you, Im glad we talked about it because I learnt a lot today.
 
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Keiji, You're dedication is fantastic but I'm concerned that you're over training. You do each of upper and lower 3 times a week? You really need a rest day between those for your body to rebuild.
Perhaps you could do:
  • day1: push (chest, shoulders, triceps(上腕三頭筋))
  • day2: pull (back, biceps( 上腕二頭筋))
  • day3: legs
  • day4: rest
  • day5: upper
  • day6: lower
  • day7: rest
At my gym the change room is upstairs, after leg day I can barely walk up the stairs.

Starting this year I asked to my trainer to switch my program courses to Body Building. Now I have 3 splits exactly as you suggested. Menu A: Chest, Shoulders, Triceps. Menu B: Back and Biceps and Menu C: Legs. He told me I can add Abdominals to whichever menu I want. The second one has only 5 excercises (can have one more he says) so I might add it there. This will be my next menu since I already did the other two. He told me that I should not do Back and Legs menus one after the other because there is a back excersice that also requieres leg strength (I cant recall the name but is to lift the bar almost from the ground until you stand still while holding the bar to the normal grould level of your hands).

I wandered how to schedule these three menus, he suggested I should rest 1 day after I complete those 3 menus...and I was concerned that if doing that then I wouldnt be able to rest only on Sundays as 3 train days 1 rest day...and so on...would end up shifting my rest days and wont be Sunday only anymore. He did say: "Well...you can do 3 trainning + 3 trainning + 1 rest day" but with a face saying not much of a good idea. So I was thinking about this message of yours. So I came back online to re-read you.

Your suggestion to take out one of the menus on the second rotation and 2 days of rest sounds about right. Is there any particular reason you leave out legs on the second rotation or was just a random example? My my my... 2 days of rest...I think I will be hesitating when Im not training hahaha. Maybe I shall do a Studio Excersice between the 2 rotations.


One group of 3 sets on one day is enough (eg on upper or lower day).
Don't stress! What you're doing is good and admirable, just I think it can use a bit of tuning. Maybe when you reach your weight goal cut back to 5 days of training.

I dont understand this part (not native English speaker): One group of 3 sets? Can you specify?
 
Thanks for writing all that out Keiji.

An example of an exercise is bench press. Each time you raise the bar is one repetition. A group of repetitions is a set. So I was suggesting you only do 3 set of 15 for abs.

The hardest thing is getting a routine that fits in with your life, I'm still trying to sort that out! How you divide the exercises between each day of training is called a split, ie splitting up the exercises.


My training suggestion for you was:
  • day1: push (chest, shoulders, triceps(上腕三頭筋))
  • day2: pull (back, biceps( 上腕二頭筋))
  • day3: legs
  • day4: rest
  • day5: upper
  • day6: lower
  • day7: rest
day 1, 2 and 3 is your new routine that your trainer gave you. And day 5, 6 are your old routine. Everything gets exercised twice a week.

What I try to do is
  • day1: push (chest, shoulders, triceps(上腕三頭筋))
  • day2: pull (back, biceps( 上腕二頭筋))
  • day3: legs
  • day4: rest
  • day5: chest, shoulders, calf (ふくらはぎ)
  • day6: back, quadriceps(大腿四頭筋), hamstrings(膝腱)
  • day7: rest

(I cant recall the name but is to lift the bar almost from the ground until you stand still while holding the bar to the normal grould level of your hands).
deadlift
 
To PSD:

This is my 9th month training, I have the impression that you are doing gym longer than myself. From May to November I only had one single menu that contained everything. It was since December that I got the 2 split menues. So starting this year when I asked to change the mokuteki for Body Building, what my trainer did was to split those "old" 2 to 3 and add other excersices...so to me the "old" menu is still the same I am doing now. During these 2 first weeks, I also said that I would like to participate in the taikai (competition?) so my menues were again changed. My current 3 split menues are:

Menu A:
  1. Bench Press
  2. Inclined Bench (Barbel? I dont know how to write this in English but in katakana is バベル)
  3. ペンク フライ Dont know name in English...
  4. Shoulder Press.
  5. Side Raise.
  6. Press Down
  7. French? Press フレンチ
Menu B:
  1. Leg Press
  2. Squat
  3. Leg Carl.
  4. カ-フ Rise
  5. アブ Bench
  6. 45 Hyper
Menu C:
  1. Dead Lift.... The day after I last posted I went to ask my trainer what デッド would be in English and he said "dead" right but I thought he was saying it wrong so I asked him to spell it and he said D.E.A.D. and I made an akward look and asked again...are you sure? Dead as しんしゃった?And he made the ん?face. We both were looking at each other with weird face for a few minutes. It was funny.
  2. Lat Pull Down
  3. Hi-rowing
  4. Arm Carl
  5. Inclined Carl
  6. EZ Bar Carl
  7. Abdominals
...and day 4 is rest...so I will be shifting my rest days now and see how it goes...no Sundays only anymore...I am very serious about the Competition and want to make sure I can lose my gyudon belly in the remaining half year before the event. Have you ever been in a Competition?

The hardest thing is getting a routine that fits in with your life, I'm still trying to sort that out!
Can you explain that? I dont understand you.


I have been talking a lot with my trainers and I learnt about かいふく which I think its Recovery. He said that small muscles can be trained again with just a single rest day, while big muscle: Back & Chest for example need 2 or 3 day rests. So I have abdominals training in my days A and C.

He also told me that splits go 1 by 1 and that customers dont jump from 2 splits to 4 splits, so I will be keeping these 3 splits for sometime...dont know how long but seems long hahaha.
 
That looks like a good routine much the same as mine but I do nine exercises each day (too much!). You are definitely doing the right sort of workout.

ペンク フライ= bench flye or fly.
A flye exercise is when you raise the arms with the shoulder but keep your elbows straight. The side raise you mentioned is a flye as well.
カ-フ Rise= calf raise.

The dead lift is a funny name. A weight lying on the ground is called a dead weight, or in the dead position. So you are lifting from the dead position therefore dead lift.

The hardest thing is getting a routine that fits in with your life, I'm still trying to sort that out!

What I meant is finding an exercise that fits in with your weekly schedule. I can't train on Wednesdays and Thursdays, and I'm so old I need more than one day rest