Universe Club/Kousai Clubs/Sugar Babies

Discussion in 'Escort Service Reviews' started by meiji, Nov 15, 2012.

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  1. meiji

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    Not sure if this is appropriate here, but I didn't know where else to file it.

    I guess one of the 'private dating clubs', which is Japan's special way of setting up potential sugar daddies with sugar babies, is now accepting foreigners- I ran across their ad on Metropolis.

    http://universe-club.jp/en/men/

    Seems you pay an entry fee, and then an introduction fee for a 'setting' (first date). It's pretty steep, especially since the guy probably has to negotiate something with the girl, too.

    I just wonder what the 'going rate' for sugar babies is, and how successful a foreigner without exceptional Japanese would be in that situation.
     
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  2. hinnie001

    hinnie001 TAG Member

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    In my experience the going rate for sugarbabies is three drinks...This kind of service might be interesting to the rich Japanese guy who otherwise wouldn't get laid, but as a gaijin why should anyone bother? One of my friends is so poor that he cannot even buy the girls a coffee at starbucks, but personality, being gaijin and decent Japanese language skills go a long way. He is crazy successful with those rich and beautiful Omotesando girls who look for spicing of their boring lives.
    So it's either escort for a real 'no strings attached' or a girlfriend (or both). But I don't see the use of this club system.
     
  3. meiji

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    There's lots of reasons a gaijin might want this sort of setup (some but not all of these apply to me):

    -Language skills- language skills are a big help, but those take time and energy

    -Time, effort, and context- If you want a 'civilian' girl for an NSA, it takes a ton of time, a lot of effort (especially if you have no game to start developing one), and of course you have to go where the girls are, which means probably hanging out in bars several nights a week. Some guys hate the bar scene, or for married guys whose wives expect them home most evenings, this would be especially tough.

    With a 'social club', you pick the girl and if she agrees, she meets with you someplace where transitioning to the bedroom is pretty simple. You also don't have to do the legwork to see if a particular escort place will let you in.

    - NSA- I don't think saying 'the price of a sugar baby is 3 drinks' is really accurate. Sure, it's easier for gaijin to have one night stands that way, or maybe to find a real GF that way, but to find something in between? not so much.

    With a social club, you don't have to explain what you want, and you don't have to lie. If you meet with a girl from a social club, she knows what the score is.

    - quality/quantity- Yes, even with no game pretty much anyone can get laid in Japan, if you are willing to unattractive girls or older women. For guys with no game, and/or that aren't exactly prizes on the looks front and/or are in their 30s, 40s, or later, those 'rich and beautiful Omotesando girls' aren't going to give them the time of day. Neither are college girls at the bars.

    This is one of the open questions at a social club, and is definitely one strike against it versus escorts. There's generally no negotiation with escorts (aside from perhaps 'extra services'), but with a social club girl if she doesn't dig old guys for example, she might ask to get paid quite a bit more than the going rate. But the benefit of the social club is compared to escorts in Tokyo,

    - sugar baby NSA > escort NSA- sugar baby NSA is better than escort NSA because a) in the case of the social club, you actually see real pictures of the girl before picking her. none of this fake pictures, or blurring out the face, or posing the girl so she hides her stomach -- granted, I'm sure the pics don't show the girls in various levels of undress... and b) more importantly, sugar baby is true GFE. A guy doesn't have to worry about the timer going off after 50 minutes. Sure, I can book an escort for all night long, but usually those 'all nighters' start at 10pm. And in a lot of cases, a sugar baby is much cheaper. Giving her 2 or 3 man for an entire evening vs 3 and a half for 2 hours with an AM girl (*ding* your time is up!) sounds like a pretty good deal, although I'm sure the hotel expectations might be a little higher for a sugar baby.

    So I think there certainly are situations where a sugar baby situation makes a lot more sense than chasing 'civilians' or meeting escorts on a time-limited basis. Anyone have any other feedback? Thanks.
     
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  4. hinnie001

    hinnie001 TAG Member

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    Ok, maybe I didn't get the concept in the first place. What you say makes total sense.So, now I'm curious what the actual deal might be, besides what is stated on the website.
     
  5. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    I can identify with what Meiji is saying. I fit a few of the categories, limited language skills (albeit trying to learn), age, late 40's, and not having too much time to invest in casual relationships. Crashed and burned on a rare opportunity, but not having dated in a long while made a clumsy attempt, but I digress.

    Would be curious on knowing more. Might even TOFTT next month, have a busy few weeks ahead. Would be very interested to know if they would really accept gaijin English speakers. I guess the English website says 'yes'.
     
  6. meiji

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    If you dig through their site, there's an email address for their English-language contact. Send me a message if you can't find it. If someone else drops them a line before I get around to it, the sorts of questions I'm interested in getting answered:

    - How much success will a foreigner with no/little Japanese have?

    - Clarification on the rating system- How are the girls ranked? Do the girls' rating system change based on how many dates they take/how many they decline? Does 100% of the 'setting rate' go to the club, or does some of it go to the girls? Apparently the men are ranked by level of membership they buy. If I buy into the lowest level rating, do I get to see the girls that are in higher membership levels? Can I change my level at some point?

    - It would be nice to know more of a breakdown of the available women. If they have 500 women in their database, how many of them are in Tokyo vs other cities they cover? How many of them are available at each level, and what the age breakdown of the girls at each level is, etc.

    - There's lots of stuff that's probably too delicate to ask them directly, such as what the women expect beyond dinner and hosting, what happens if you pay the setting fee and something happens like the girl doesn't show up, or there's other issues of, shall we say, dissatisfaction? While they aren't a prostitution service, they certainly are in the business of arranging sexual liaisons, and if I'm paying 2 man en just to take a young lady out to dinner once, I'm not going to be a member for very long.
     
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  7. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    Yep, found the email address. Plan to drop them a line. As you Meiji says I am first and foremost curious if they will accept gaijin. Your other questions are definitely on the money. I will share anything I find out.
     
  8. NewGuy

    NewGuy TAG Member

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    I haven't dated in awhile, but language skills were never an issue. I just used to bring my dictionary and play it out like a game. You can also have some stock questions that you make an effort to learn the usual answers to. I remember 'training' by asking my half American/Japanese friend all the potential answers to 'where do you live?' and then taking the next step, which is a follow up (do you like it there?) The reason for this is so you can control the conversation. Same as work for most of us.

    Oh, and old guys are cool as. I'm not a young man by anyone's estimation and I've dated as low as mid-20s here with options on younger (too childish for me). I just use FORD on most people (been doing it for years) and tell them about how much I like Japan. Pretty much works on everyone...

    One more thing. Don't forget Japan cupid. You can just spam the girls and they'll usually answer after a few tries. I used to online date a bit when I was younger and I recently started again. No dates, but I'll keep hammering away.

    Family-Occupation-Recreation-Dreams. 10 years of practice tells me it works.
     
  9. NewGuy

    NewGuy TAG Member

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    I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes.
     
  10. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    Will have some updates next week. Have taken the plunge and setup an 'interview'. As I understand it no obligation so it will be interesting to get some details and see what they have to offer.
     
  11. toz

    toz TAG Member

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    looking forward to hearing how it goes.
    It looks like a glorified escort service.. I just wonder how much the girls would then charge.
    If I pay 2 man to join the club, then a date setting fee, then the chick wants something like 5 man ... i am better off renting a video or calling AM...
     
  12. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    OK, some more details...

    The website information is accurate with respect to membership and basic concepts. They appear to be well organized.

    Besides the upfront membership fee the club gets paid the setting fee based on the girls level for each new setting, repeat settings are handled directly between you and the girl. And the girl then gets her compensation during the date. Yes, it is expensive when compared to AM. If you join the girls setting fees are supposedly articulated to remove any awkwardness after meeting up. So in summary beyond the membership fee you would have the initial setting fee, dinner, girls compensation and hotel (I would guess that love hotels do not meet the expectations). So for one-off dates it is probably not a great way to go, ideally you need to meet someone who you could establish a 'relationship' with and repeat.

    Also you can only arrange settings at you level and down, so no 'dating up' as it were.

    They appear accommodating to non-Japanese members, male and female, so that part was positive. Will give it some thought, sounds intriguing, but the cost needs to be considered.

    SN
     
  13. toz

    toz TAG Member

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    Thanks for the info. Curious how much it would cost directly to the girl? Are these women expecting 50K or more?

    Sounds like one date has the potential to get near 10 Man...
     
  14. meiji

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    For a standard girl, it would be 2 man to the club, 1.5 for a hotel (standard rate for entry-level Hyatt), maybe 1 or 1.5 for dinner, and then whatever the girl wants. I can't see a standard girl asking for more than 2 man, although I'm talking out of my ass. So that's about 7 man for the first date, 5 for each subsequent date.

    To put it in perspective, the 5 hour dinner/date with an AM girl is 6.5 man, and that's before you paying for dinner or the hotel. And you don't have as much choice in girls, either. Granted, the one thing that AM has over the sugar daddy thing is there's no 'getting to know you' phase with an escort. I'm sure a lot of these sugar babies might be somewhat inexperienced and/or shy vis-a-vis sex, and while you could ask an escort to wear a school girl/nurse/furry neko outfit on the 'first date', that might take a few dates with a sugar baby.
     
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  15. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    Yes, could run to 10 Man if you went for, say, a gold level girl. Best understanding is that most girls are looking at between 3 & 6 Man as their personal compensation.

    Meiji makes a good comparison with an AM dinner date.

    The risk with the club option is that either party can pull the plug after dinner (can't see the guy doing it) and if that happens you would be out the setting fee and the hotel if you booked it on the fair assumption of 'going all the way' as it were.

    With AM you are guaranteed to at least get what you pay for.
     
  16. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    Fwiiw, the SeekingArrangement.com (English language) internet sugar dating site

    http://www.seekingarrangement.com/

    has online profiles for roughly 75 women in Japan, most in the Tokyo area. SDs (potential sugar daddies) also post their profiles there, and either party can initiate a contact, so the arrangement is a bit more gender symmetrical than at Universe Club...though I think only the men have to pay for a membership.

    SA, as it is called, also covers the whole world (though with the major concentrations of members in English speaking countries and large cities, naturally enough), so its usefulness is not limited to Japan only.

    -Ww
     
  17. Rules

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  18. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    I did finally join and have enjoyed a 'setting'. Will report the details very soon. So far, cost aside, it has been very positive.

    SN
     
  19. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    Also, that is, I joined Universe Club
     
  20. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    OK, here goes...

    First a few comments.

    Got to think this might be my midlife crisis.

    And, yes, it is expensive compared to AM and other offerings. But I get a nice cost of living adjustment and went from paying a mortgage to having a company sponsored apartment.

    Details on membership costs etc. are available on the link at the start of this thread so I won't transcribe the details.

    I joined UC as a Platinum, in retrospect would have joined as Gold, plenty of girls at this level. Most of the girls at each level are Tokyo based. In total over 600 girls. Majority at Standard and Gold.

    Did not take them up on the trial setting, personal decision.

    Now I do not speak Japanese, with the exception of a few phrases and some key words. They understood this when I joined. They do offer good support in English. As I understand it there are not too many foreign club members.

    Arranged a 'setting' with a Gold level girl. Cannot provide a link as it is members only. She was quite attractive.

    So for this the costs are the club fee, hotel (good quality is expected), dinner and the girls compensation if she decides to continue the date after dinner.

    As all went well it set me back around 90,000 excluding the club fee. So not cheap. As this is not AM etc. I am not going to name names or provide the intimate details, this would cheapen the whole experience for me.

    Some definite upsides. We did click and can now contact each other independent of the club so any future dates do not incur their fee as we contact each other directly. And the end result is not guaranteed so there was an element of the unknown that made it fun. And there was an element of charming awkwardness as I was dating a girl who has a normal job albeit she is getting the compensation fee. I have used AM and this was a completely different experience, quite classy if that makes sense.

    I am certainly hoping we can setup a second date, will see what happens in the coming weeks.

    So all in all I do not regret my decision to join UC.

    I hope I answered some questions and that my lack of providing the nitty gritty details is understood.
     
  21. Wwanderer

    WwandererWwanderer is a Verified Member Kids, don't try this at home!

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    While indeed not cheap, it also isn't out of line expensive compared to what you would pay a good high-end internet escort for a comparable date...multiple hours, socializing over dinner, private time in a good hotel. You didn't make it clear if she spent the whole night and "slept over" with you at the hotel, but if so, you could have easily paid significantly more to a fully pro-escort.

    Some people (skeptically and/or cynically inclined) say that the "sugar bowl" is basically for those who are in denial about being prostitutes or johns, that it is basically a delusional activity. Having done quite a lot of prostitution (as a john!) and a fair amount of "sugaring" as an SD, I very much disagree...for the reasons SN points out. Namely, it is a quite different experience, at least on average. There are sugar dates that feel an awful lot like prostitution, and there are prostitution dates that feel more real/normal/classy/natural than the usual one, but typically the ambiance, style and mood of a sugar encounter is at least half way between prostitution and "regular dating". In extreme (the best) cases, it is 98% of the way. This has pros and cons of course, but the two are not the same, imo.

    -Ww
     
  22. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    I can say openly I have used AM here in Japan and the services of working girls in other countries and I agree that in some cases it is a true GFE. And I know the meaning of GFE has been discussed here too. I have been in the hobby for quite a while.

    But I would still say that my first Sugar Baby experience with UC was better. And she was certainly no 'baby', late 20's, still way younger than I am. Am hesitant to go too young based on maturity level of some local girls.

    And no she did not stay the night but promised too when we meet again. But with dinner and the time spent at the hotel it was still a great evening.
     
  23. Rules

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  24. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    I did enjoy a second date with the first girl I saw. It went very well. I think we both felt a bit more at ease the second time around.

    We enjoyed dinner together again and went back to the hotel to relax. Was hoping she would stay the night but she decided against it. As I booked a conventional hotel for our first 2 dates
    I might think about a good love hotel next time around to help with the cost.

    She has kept in touch and we are planning date number 3 in the new year.

    Am also looking at another first setting.

    So far so good with my experiences.

    SN
     
  25. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now TAG Member

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    And I agree that I think our first date actually was helped made somewhat more fun with us meeting for the first time. No complaints on our second date but there was something extra on the first with not knowing for sure if she would actually come back to the hotel or not.
     
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