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Universe Club/Kousai Clubs/Sugar Babies

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Apologies for the post editing, we recently detected that the user 'Rules' belongs to 'Universe Club' and therefore we believe posting false reports.

(i.e. Owners/managers may not post reviews of their own shops that gives them financial benefit.)

I apologize for not catching this sooner.

-Eliah
 
Apologies for the post editing, we recently detected that the user 'Rules' belongs to 'Universe Club' and therefore we believe posting false reports.

(i.e. Owners/managers may not post reviews of their own shops that gives them financial benefit.)

I apologize for not catching this sooner.

-Eliah

More my fault than yours, sorry. :(
 
I was wondering how you know which personal compensation a girl would like to get. Does each girl state it on her profile page? Or do you have to select the girl first, and the Club then tells you how much it is?
 
At the club I joined it is coded into their membership number so you know it up front before evening arranging a date and can avoid the subject when dating.
 
90,000 yen ($900 dollars) is fracking crazy. No way any guy should pay that. That's robbery.

Not good value for your money.

For the same money, you could have:

1. Booked a round trip ticket from Japan to Korea on Air Asia

Cost 28,000 yen (~$280 dollars)

2. Booked a hotel for at least 3 or 4 days

20,000 to 40,000 (~$200 to $400 dollars)

3. Went to Gireum, to a famous sex area, by Seoul subway.

Bought 3 different women for sex (FS) the same night.

5,000 to 8,000 yen ($50 to $80 dollars) for EACH woman.

For any of these type of Internet Clubs to be worth it:

1. Total amount shouldn't run more than around 50,000 yen (club, hotel, dinner, girl compensation).

Why? Because if the internet club is more expensive than that, it's the same or possibly cheaper to book an Escort.

By comparison a regular date and with a regular woman, where the guy paid for everything and she didn't help, can be around 20,000 yen (good dinner for 2, all night at hotel)

2. You get to spend the entire night with the woman.

That's what makes the Internet clubs truly intriguing and more like GFE.

3. You get to hook up with the same girl repeatedly and pay her directly (girl compensation, hotel, dinner). Bringing the cost down.

Their true advantage is unlike a prostitute, she can go out with you. Unlike an Escort, the fee paid to the women are more reasonable and she spends more time with you.
 
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90,000 yen ($900 dollars) is fracking crazy. No way any guy should pay that. That's robbery.

<snip>

For any of these type of clubs to be worth it:

1. Total amount shouldn't run more than around 50,000 yen (club, hotel, dinner, girl compensation).

Why? Because if the internet club is more expensive than that, it's the same or possibly cheaper to book an Escort.

2. You get to spend the entire night with the girls.

That's what make the Internet club truly intriguing and more like GFE.

3. You get to hook up with the same girl repeatedly and pay her directly (girl compensation, hotel, dinner). Bringing the cost down.

Their true advantage is unlike a prostitute, she can go out with you. Unlike an Escort, the fee paid to the women are more reasonable and she spends more time with you.

I'll ignore the part about flying to Korea, because companionship clubs are a different experience. I mean, I can get 20 blowjobs from Japanese girls at Hinomaru for ¥90,000, too.

1. You aren't going to get a good hotel, a decent dinner, and pay a girl more than 2 man or so before hitting a 5 man barrier. Also note that Asian Mystique's "Dinner date" is ¥65,000, you still have to pay for dinner and hotel, you don't get to see the girl's face ahead of time, the date has a hard limit on time, and if you want to see the same girl again it's another ¥65,000 instead of maybe 2 or 3 man with a Universe Club girl.

2. Generally you do. Some girls may not be willing to spend the whole night with you. At the very least you aren't super-rushed, other than worrying about last train or sending the girl home in a taxi.

3. That's the way Universe Club works. After the first date, you deal with the girl directly and don't have to pay them again to date the same girl. It's only if you want a different girl where it costs again.

Yeah, it's a lot of money and that's one of the reasons I haven't sprung for it yet, but for what you get its not particularly expensive.
 
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Agreed that continuous one-off dates are not worth it.

I have been able to meet the same girl again after the first date and without the club fee it obviously brings the cost down. Still expensive.

Overall it has been a good experience but not something you can indulge in too often.
 
@meiji

Gold =

50,000 yen (~500 dollars) membership +
20,000 yen to 30,000 yen setting fee.

That's 70,000 to 80,000 (~700 to ~800 dollars) for NOTHING yet. Could have already went on vacation to Korea or Thailand and got laid multiple times on that.

If you renew, another 30,000 yen (~300 dollars).

The girl isn't obligated to anything and can charge you whatever or just leave you hanging in the wind after paying dinner and for a hotel.

To add to it, are they verifying your ID by making a photo copy or taking a fax?

Maintaining photo ID and personal information of customers open ups another world of possible problems, like blackmail.

Most Escort services just want cash and verify you by phone. So there is more inherent privacy protection.

The concept of Internet club sugar babies is very good, I'm questioning the implementation and any advantages.

And, what's up with these classes of standard, gold, or platinum?

How does a woman qualify for each class? What makes going up to a higher class worth it?
 
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@meiji

The membership, annual membership, and setting fees are staggering.

Yes, as I said earlier, it's a lot of money, but it's not expensive for what you are getting.

That's 70,000 to 80,000 (~700 to ~800 dollars) for NOTHING yet. Could have already went on vacation to Korea or Thailand and got laid multiple times on that.

Again, it's a different type of companionship. If you are looking for 'just sex', then sure, going to Korea or even Hipness is a whole lot cheaper.

The girl isn't obligated to anything and can charge you whatever or just leave you hanging in the wind after paying dinner and for a hotel.

This is....questionable. While the girl certainly isn't committing to sex regardless of a guy's behavior, from what I know of Universe Club I'm pretty sure that there's expectations set when a girl first signs up. They do the typical Japanese wink-wink-nudge-nudge to let a guy know which girls are just there for dinner and talking and which girls are willing to go to a hotel with a guy on the first date. I think if girls indicate the latter and she skips out without any reason, there would probably be consequences (the girl getting kicked out or the guy getting a free date, etc, etc). That's all just speculation as I haven't signed up yet, but Universe Club stays in business by making its customers (ie, the men) happy.

To add to it, are they verifying your ID by making a photo copy or taking a fax? To go along with records of your personal information and transactions.

Maintaining photo ID records of customers open ups another world of possible problems.

Most Escort services just want cash and verify you by phone. So there is more inherent privacy protection.

I'm pretty sure they do get your ID. I'm not sure if they keep it on file and/or track your involvement against it. I'm not sure which 'world of possible problems' you are talking about, save for maybe getting blackmailed by the org. Social clubs like this aren't illegal under Japanese law, so if the cops came in to bust up the establishment for some other reason, their records can't be used against you. Again, this goes back to pleasing their customers (the men), so I'm would assume that they are pretty careful with their records and don't want to be known for having blackmailer employees or employees with loose tongues.

If you reread the thread, there's plenty of examples of why people might want to go this route, even with the cost involved. It may not be for you, but that's okay. Japan has all sorts of other ways to play.
 
If the girl wants to leave after dinner then it is made clear she does not get her fee. Have not encountered this situation yet.

Also each girl makes it clear in her profile what she is looking for, just dinner, continue after dinner if they feel comfortable or continue after dinner as a given.

With respect to IDs they do not keep a copy, just want to see it for verification. And the guys are not photographed. So it is pretty anonymous.
 
@Ww

Some women in the Japan area of SeekingArrangement looked creepy (which is unusual and I've been to lots of dating websites) or seem out of their minds crazy. Plus, not many women. We should e-mail the company to recruit more.

An Asian woman named Juju expects to be compensated $5,000 to $10,000 dollars a month. By the way, she's a dwarfish 4'10. Dwarfs want a lot.

Not to be outdone, a woman named Iryana wants $10,000 to $20,000 dollars monthly. 0,0

I'm all for paying for a good time, but that's just beyond crazy.

SeekingArrangement is $240 for 6 months.
 
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And as Meiji says there are many ways to play in Japan. I have enjoyed Universe Club to date. The girls I have met have been great company. And I am not naive enough to believe that my charm alone is working here, the girls are clearly in it for the money, but in most cases they appear to enjoy the whole evening.
 
@Meiji

I like the sugar baby concept, because a lot of professional escorts are obnoxious clock watchers. They will play the clock and destroy any fun or relaxtion.

There is room in the industry for much better, especially with all the amateurs like college students and housewifes.

However, you can find independent escorts for ¥25,000 yen per hour and sometimes ¥20,000 yen or less than that. Considering FS can be got for ¥10,000 yen and the economy is stagnant, should be plenty of women willing to explore the ¥10,000 to ¥20,000 range.

It's the well established Escort Agencies that charge crazy prices like ¥40,000 yen per hour and up.

Japanese guys know lots of websites and places with amateurs at cheaper/better prices.

For the Universe Club, privacy is an issue. How comfortable should a married guy feel giving the staff all his information like; job, address, etc... Then his ID too.

Membership fees and setting fees seem oddly steep. Is a setting fee really necessary, if the guy can simply contact the woman by e-mail? Why does SeekingArrangements have NO setting fee?

Extra cost seem to take away the advantage a sugar babby website has over escorts.

Sugar babies sites should keep a price advantage over tradition and established Escort sites. Otherwise, there is no point to the sugar baby website.

Especially if the sugar baby is an ugly short acne faced college girl or a chubby housewife trying to ask for the same money as a 5'9 blonde Ukrainian model.
 
Firstly let me say that I am in no way pulling for UC or any other kousai club...

But I can assure you that the girls I have seen have been very cute. Having used AM and experienced a soapland, on looks it has been at least 9/10. And their attitude has been great too. So no complaints on their looks or attitude. And as I looked at the pics and profiles it was my decision to set up the date with them. it has been well worth the time & money.

One benefit of being a gaijin at UC is that I am at least different. Maybe I am a novelty, but I don't care if we both have a great time.

The pictures and profiles of the gorls have been very accurate. Do they reveal as much as an escort site like AM, e.g. in their lingerie, etc.? No. But that, IMHO, is part of the fun. You see the pictures of the girls in their day-to-day attire, you get to see the rest later.

And to reiterate, at least for UC, other than my private phone and email they have no personal data on me so I feel comfortable.

Each to his own I guess...
 
And would I take a 5' 9" Ukranian over a 5' 2" Japanese 20 something year old cutie? Not a snowflakes' chance in hell.

I have lived in 4 countries on 3 continents in my lifetime and there is just something about Japanese girls that is very alluring.

But that's just me... :)
 
Holy crap. Just saw the site. There's some that look pretty decent to hot on the tumbler page. The club looks busy too.
 
@Ww

Some women in the Japan area of SeekingArrangement looked creepy (which is unusual and I've been to lots of dating websites) or seem out of their minds crazy. Plus, not many women. We should e-mail the company to recruit more.

An Asian woman named Juju expects to be compensated $5,000 to $10,000 dollars a month. By the way, she's a dwarfish 4'10. Dwarfs want a lot.

Not to be outdone, a woman named Iryana wants $10,000 to $20,000 dollars monthly. 0,0

I'm all for paying for a good time, but that's just beyond crazy.

SeekingArrangement is $240 for 6 months.

Those numbers turn out to be largely meaningless. They are selected from a pull-down menu by the woman when she sets up her profile. Most of them pick some unrealistically high number because they assume (naively) that the numbers on the pull-down menu wouldn't be there if they weren't reasonable. Maybe a few lucky or amazing SBs get that kind of money from super-rich guys, but most SBs soon discover that "the market' is a lot less.

In my experience most SBs are very happy to get either allowances or "per date fees" that are in the range of $500 or less per evening...plus dinner, drinks, entertainment etc. This is an *extremely* good deal compared to what a straight pro escort of comparable "quality" would charge you. Plus it sometimes comes with a vastly better attitude.

The other point you seem to be repeatedly missing in the exchanges above is that the sugar bowl is NOT primarily a money for the physical act(s) of sex deal. It offers a much more elaborate and interesting (to many) experience with a sexy woman. If you just want sex for yen, sugar is not the way to go. Quite aside from the cost, it simply requires enormously more time and effort than seeing conventional prostitutes.

On your other point, the number of women in Japan on SA - yes, it is pretty low. But the number has been growing steadily for the last year or more. Not too long ago it was like 20-30, and many of those were "dead" accounts (no longer accessed by the women who created them for whatever reason). SA's major markets are in the US, Canada, UK and Australia but with some small amount of activity in countries spread all over the world.

-Ww
 
This is probably a really stupid question but I've found you guys on here really helpful before so figure I'll take a shot at it.

I am never able to visit Japan for more than 2 or 3 weeks at at time at most. I used escorts the last time I was there and have no complaints. But I'd like to actually be able to go out with a Japanese girl who I wasn't strictly paying for sex. I speak very little Japanese so picking up a girl and getting a decent date would be almost impossible within 2 weeks.

Is there any possibility that a Sugar Daddy club like Universe club would take on a holiday maker? I don't care about the cost, I'd accept the fact that I'd be paying full membership for just 2 weeks of use. But from a timescale point of view would it be feasible to expect to be able to at least get 2 dates with 1 girl within 2 weeks (if the girl was prepared to see me a second time).

Any thoughts?
 
From my experience that could be difficult.

I have had 3 new dates and it took up to 1 week to find a suitable date for us to meet. A lot of the girls have regular jobs so short notice does not always work out, especially if you have a specific girl or girls you want to meet with as I did.

If you open to meeting anyone they could find it might work.

And I have had follow up dates with 2 of the 3 girls I met and we met around 2 weeks after our first date. With me living here this was OK, no time pressure, so not honestly sure how fast a girl might be up for the second date.

And I had one cancellation before a first date and another time a girl had a family member pass away and we had to reschedule our second date.

So overall you might be taking a risk.

Best suggestion is to send them an email, it is on the website, and see what they say.
 
It is now very common for Japanese women, particularly younger ones, to be flakey and cancel meetings at the last minute. It has become a near epidemic.

Part of the problem is the tendency of Japanese women to panic and become hysterical about meeting a new person. Particularly a foreign person. This fear is perpetrated by xenophobic media and outrageous stories spread as gossip.

However, these cancellations are also partly due to the deviousness and schemes of Japanese women. They will plan multiple dates at the same time. They then take the one, that they think is the best offer (they sometimes guess wrong and regret it) and cancel all the other dates with flimsy excuses.

"I'm sick. I have cold. Work emergency. Family emergency." Pretty much any kind of lie they think will go over.

If there are no consequences imposed on the Japanese women, they don't care how they do men. There is no longer any honor about keeping their word. For the younger generation, keeping a promise for honor is now an outdated concept. To many women, they do whatever they want and don't care.

These women are often on several websites at the SAME time, planning dates on the same days. This is common for ANY date websites with Japanese women.

A guy should always have a plan B, when he arranges a date with a Japanese woman. Don't expect her showing up to be a guarantee, if meeting is voluntary and not under a work contract.
 
I do not want to be drawn into a slanging match here, but I disagree with the previous poster's comments.

Firstly this thread has been discussing Sugar Baby dating and this is clearly a whole different ball game than regular dating.

For the record the girl who cancelled was dropped by the club, so they took action as she had become flakey.

The girl who had a family issue really did, I won't go into details, but I know it was true. And we met 2 days later, have met once again and plan to do so again.

Keeping on topic if an SB date cancels it is her loss more than mine. She loses out on a nice dinner and her compensation fee.

I can always select another date and move on, as I did.

At the end of the day the SB scene has been a good experience. Both parties know it is not a 'real' date and the expectations are known.

I am not prepared to go to clubs and bars and hope to pick up attractive girls for casual dates, do not have the time or energy. And would also rate my chances at close to 0 in any case.

I would rather use the club and cut to the chase. Takes out all the hard stuff, hours at bars, picking up, etc. Never been my strong suit.

The 3 girls I have had dates with would probably not have give me the time of day at a bar.

With the club they readily accepted a date and in each case have been great company for dinner and the evening. And as a bonus they have been very attractive girls.

Once they overcame any nervousness at meeting a gaijin it has been fun. Just 2 people out for a good time.

Of course I realize the incentive of the date fee no doubt helps convince them to enjoy it too.

So SB dating simply cannot be compared to regular dating. Two different worlds and as long as both parties in the SB scene get it, it can, and has been a lot of fun.

Once again, each to his own...
 
I have Japanese female friends and previous girlfriends that were/are on multiple websites. Sometimes for money, sometimes for fun. This include websites where women just talk to guys and webcams.

Trust me when I say, some women viciously game guys.

I like the sugar daddy concept, but ROI (return on investment) is in question to in comparison to escorts.

A woman can just go, collect her fee for showing up and bounce out and NOT go to the hotel room.

There is nothing the website can "officially" do if she games you like that. And if the guy is out of 70,000 to 90,000 yen (700 to 900 dollars), that is OUCH.
 
She cannot bounce out with her fee before the hotel. If she wants to finish the date after dinner, and both parties can do this, she is owed only a token taxi fee, no more than Y10,000. This is a club rule so the guy is protected against this scenario.

So the ROI is no worse than an escort in my opinion. Continuous first dates hurt the ROI with the club fee. Follow up dates are a wash with an AM dinner date for example. And with being able to communicate between dates via email etc it is a plus over an escort as I see it. Adds some personal level over an escort.
 
Serenity Now, thank you for giving all that detail. I was kind of hopeful you'd be the one to answer since you have first hand experience with this. I really appreciate it. I see kousai clubs as my only chance for a natural feeling date with a very attractive girl. And even if my time frame prevents me from getting follow up dates, at least perhaps I could see 2 or 3 girls whilst I'm over there.

I'll e-mail UC a few months before I go. Hopefully I'll have some luck.
 
@ Serenity

If the site can influence the girl and they are getting 20,000 yen to 30,000 yen in setting fees, then they have a monetary interest to cheat customers.

If the woman keeps seeing the same guy, they lose charging you the setting fee.

So, they can TELL the woman to stop seeing you. And likely through some excuse that she is sick or someone in her family is sick. This way, they can charge customers more money to arrange meetings. Even if not every time, after she sees you 2 times.

Combined with the setting fees, it can be 60,000 yen (600 dollars) or more. That is very steep.

And there is no guarantee she will spend the night, so hotel time could be 2 hours and she bounces.
 
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