Universe Club/Kousai Clubs/Sugar Babies

[drewz]

Yeah, there's apparently lots of girls out there that love free entertainment without the intimacy. I had a (very attractive) language exchange partner whose entire MO was to have me pay for meals and entertainment in exchange for her company. When it became clear to her that the gravy train had stopped, suddenly the desire to hang out with me quickly went away.

I've fallen for that one before! There definitely are many women who want to be taken out and treated but get all the intimacy they need somewhere else. I'm not at all averse to treating a pretty girl to a nice evening with no expectations, but absolutely refuse to be used.

Actually, tonight I'm taking a UC girl out for a dinner-only date even though she's categorized as open to continuing. Was pretty last minute and I just don't have the time, a first date with dinner & hotel needs at least 4-5 hours. Pleasantly surprised that one of my top choices is happy to go out knowing it's only for dinner!

 

[Solong]

The issue that I was concerned about and pointed out, was the ROI (Return On Investment). Putting down around $900 dollars/¥90,000 yen is a staggering amount of money.

A woman on a regular date site ( which you can join several with $900 dollars) can play the horrible game of dinner, then never see the person again.

In Japan, this game of (dinner and never see again) is unfortunately very common over the last 5 years. Japanese women have been taught to play this game against men through books, blogs, and by other bad women.

This crappy game is spurred by a number of factors like: Mr. Right/Queen complexes, paranoia about being called a slut in public, being malicious to men or foreigners, female peer pressure to sucker guys, a woman being arrogant, etc...

UC should be compared in it's EFFECTIVENESS and QUALITY of women to regular date sites, independent escorts, and other sugar baby sites. Another website in this category is TravelGirls... If we don't compare, then it's arguably just about posting an advertisement for UC's financial gain.

Why pay premium money, if you are meeting an average looking college student or housewife that you could get off a regular date site?

And it is FAIR to point out that a guy can go hit or miss, and play the "chemistry" game, at a regular date site for far less expense.

If UC is a person's preference, that's totally fine by me. Again, I LIKE the sugar baby concept and have nothing against it outside of ROI. In theory, it would be the better system, however reality is the true judge.

It seems UC's " limited control" over women is based on cash incentives on how "far" the date went. That would mean to the women, that they can compare "dinner money" to "hotel money".

Various women can/might be "gaming" the system, where they go on lot's of dinners and get "dinner money". How many dinners equal "hotel money" for a woman?

These are also independent women, that can be signing up for and working for MANY different websites at the SAME time. Just showing up for dinner, can mean a LOT of money for them. And the website still made the guys pay the registration fees.

Case in point, I had 2 Japanese ex-girlfriends that were video cam models. I had setup the computer for one of them. They were on numerous websites, to increase their money.

I thought the purpose of paying hundreds of dollars in "setting fees" is to make sure the woman who is chosen will result in a "happy ending". If not, then what's the purpose of the company interviewing you and getting paid settings fees for arranging the date?

The company interview and arrangements provided by setting fees, should mean that a date never ends in "dinner only" unless an extreme circumstance. An extreme circumstance that arguably should result in the woman or guy being kicked off UC.

Shouldn't "dinner only" mean NOT paying a setting fee because of the gamble?

I'm interested in UC users opinions about that.

 

[meiji]

The issue that I was concerned about and pointed out, was the ROI (Return On Investment).

Yes. You've made your objections known. Repeatedly.

UC should be compared in it's EFFECTIVENESS and QUALITY of women to regular date sites, independent escorts, and other sugar baby sites. Another website in this category is TravelGirls... If we don't compare, then it's arguably just about posting an advertisement for UC's financial gain.

TravelGirls isn't a place to meet Japanese women in Japan. But I think that's the first time that you've actually provided useful, new intel instead of badmouthing everyone else's hobby choices.

Your problem with UC appears to be that you are looking at one equation: How much did I pay to get laid?

We've covered all this before, but you aren't looking at any of the other factors that go into it, including signal to noise ratio -- you certainly aren't going to find a lot of girls willing to fuck on the first date on most dating sites, and it takes a ton of time and effort contacting them, etc, none of which you have with UC. Escort services have the opposite problem. Relatively easy to line up service, but you are 'on the clock', the girl is less likely to be very GFE, not to mention escort services use airbrushed/blurred/fake pictures of their girls and UC does not (although I've heard through the grapevine that some of the girls have their faces blurred). UC is a happy medium that some guys are willing to pay extra for.

If UC is a person's preference, that's totally fine by me.

...

It seems UC's " limited control" over women is based on cash incentives on how "far" the date went. That would mean to the women, that they can compare "dinner money" to "hotel money".

It's obviously NOT fine by you, because you keep posting about how much of a ripoff it is in your opinion.

I would be very surprised if a woman repeatedly went the 'dinner money' route multiple times that she would continue to be listed with UC. I've heard they are very swift to take action on bad feedback. Their money comes from happy, repeat male customers, and they apparently have more than enough willing women walking through their doors every day.

Instead of hearing you rehash the same arguments again, since this site is for sharing experiences and good intel, I would be very interested in hearing from you on what good or bad experiences you've had with girls that you have seen, pro or not, elsewhere on this site.

 

[Solong]

Certain people haven't been paying attention, as I'm very positive about sugardaddies.com. Sugardaddie is the ORIGINAL. The weakness of Sugardaddie is they don't focus enough on Japan. However, I wrote the creators and they stated they will put more emphasis on Japan in the future.

In fact, my comments on UC reflects direct comparisons to how things are done with Sugardaddies, who doesn't charge you "settings fees" or do personal interviews (negative- privacy, positive- possibly less frauds).

There are different ways to do sugar daddy/momma and sugar babies.

And I was asking direct questions on the quality of the experience and value for the money. I'm NOT bashing anybody using UC, but questioning the percieved value. There are date sites like Japan Friends, Adult Friend Finder, etc... It is fair to compare.

Meiji, you are very on point about "signal to noise". I AGREE with you that UC appears to provide a willing woman for a date and hotel sex, with less games. However UC users have to state that in their reviews.

The benefit should be a clear "close the deal at the hotel" and quality, for the money paid. And I would like to see a number of UC users state that.

If I think UC is worth it, I will USE it TOO. I'm just providing a clear opinions about perceived value.

And I will do a write up on TravelGirls later and in a separate thread.

 

[psd]

Solong, you are adding nothing to the conversation. The facts have been presented and people will make their own decision.

 

[Serenity Now]

For me the ROI is the 'big picture'.

First dates are expensive, cannot deny it.

But if you find a compatible girl you can really spend some quality time together.

This week I dated a girl for the 4th time and now when we get together it is 7 or 8 hours of 'quality time'. And that goes way beyond being in bed together.

We meet in the afternoon at a cafe, go for a walk, maybe some shopping then dinner and a hotel. We both understand the boundaries and enjoy each others company.

So to judge UC and other SB experiences as a one off event is selling it short.

Sure it might take some time to find a girl you click with but when you do the ROI is good. Trust me on this one.

So while I am aware of the downsides I have to say all in all it is well worth it for those looking for more than a standard escort service. And I have good experience with AM and other providers.

Given that UC offers a trial service with no setting fee I would encourage the skeptics to give it a shot.

Overall it is well above the standard provider experience, at least from what I have experienced to date.

To those who have indulged, I think we can appreciate the benefits.

SN

 

[Wwanderer]

Actually 4 would not be relevant to 'no sex', 4 is just for further contact.

I understood the meaning of 4, but thanks for the further explanation/clarification.

My thought is that the expectation of a physical relationship is likely to grow in the guy's mind the more time he sees a particular woman and thus the pressure on her for sex. Women who want to avoid an intimate relationship may therefore want to avoid seeing any man more than once in order to minimize that pressure. Just my speculation; I don't know what they are thinking of course.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

The issue that I was concerned about and pointed out, was the ROI (Return On Investment). Putting down around $900 dollars/¥90,000 yen is a staggering amount of money.

But it simply is NOT a *staggering* amount of money to everyone. To some it is; to others it isn't even a significant amount of money...not even worth pausing to think about. (I have a friend in that happy situation.) For others, like me, it is enough money that I take it seriously, but it is not one of my major considerations. For example, an evening of my time (especially in Tokyo!) is considerably more precious to me than 9-ma'en.

I have met quite a lot of women and corresponded with many many more via seekingarrangement.com (SA) and sugardaddie.com (SD)...I prefer the former, btw...over the last few years, and a few of those connections turned out to be quite enjoyable; one turned out to be spectacular beyond my wildest hopes...changed my life deeply. Really.

Meeting that many women would surely have cost much much more money via UC. However, the things that interest me about UC are 1 - the profiles sound like they are vastly more reliable and informative than the SA/SD ones, thus reducing the chance of wasting time and money on the duds, and 2 - the whole process of setting up a first meeting sounds like it will take much less of my time and attention than it does via SA/SD. Add to that the much larger selection of women in Tokyo available via UC compared to SA/SD.

How do you count all of that into your ROI concept?

-Ww

 

[antigl]

Well, I have no new arguments here and I think any service has pro's and con's. However, I was reading this and thinking a long time, if I should give UC a try and I will. I think I can add some value to this discussion by posting my personal and honest experience.

About me: European, around 40, looking average, working in Tokyo since last year. I am not a "party animal" and little shy when it comes to date women. My Japanese is very limited.
I very like the cute Japanese women around 25.

Why did I choose UC? I don't like to go to the red like district as I'm always afraid to get ripped off. I also don't like to spend long nights e. g. at Roppongi bars.
With UC I see what I get and I know the approx. costs. That's a reasonable deal for me. Yes, it's not cheap, but good things in life are never cheap.
I also like the uncertainty whether date ends after the dinner. It's some kind of challenge to get more.
Finally I don't like professional dates with escort girls as most of them only look to their watch and everything is very "scripted". I hope UC girls are less professional and things are more spontaneous. I will see.

What I did thus far: I met someone from UC and set up a trial membership. Yesterday I picked my favorite girl for a first date and now waiting for a feedback regarding her schedule. I hope I can setup something early next week.

I will report, how things are going.

P.S.: Sorry for my bad English, but I am not a native speaker and I hope it's good enough that people get it, what I want to say

 

[Serenity Now]

@Ww...

Understood on your interpretation of the 4. Hadn't looked at it that way but can see it now.


@antigl...

I hope it lives up to expectations.

I have experienced girls at various levels of the 'scripted' scale. There are certainly some UC girls who are at the professional end of the scale and the physical part of the date can be a little scripted.

But the girl I now see on a fairly regular basis from UC is at the other end. She really enjoys the intimacy and it never feels scripted. This is what I was looking for from UC and it has rewarding.

And there are some on the middle, not scripted but not a lot of intimacy either.

If only there was a way to filter out the more professionally minded girls. That would be good...

And by the way, your English is fine. Don't be shy to share your experience.

Nice to see a few like minded TAG members giving UC a shot.

 

[drewz]

Why pay premium money, if you are meeting an average looking college student or housewife that you could get off a regular date site?

Everyone has different taste so looks are fairly subjective, but I'd say more than half of the girls on UC would be considered very attractive. I've met many Japanese women via various online sites and 99% of the time they were average looking or worse.

Plus UC has AV stars, gravure models, fashion models, etc. You're unlikely to find very attractive girls on a regular internet dating site, much less those girls.

I thought the purpose of paying hundreds of dollars in "setting fees" is to make sure the woman who is chosen will result in a "happy ending". If not, then what's the purpose of the company interviewing you and getting paid settings fees for arranging the date?

The setting fee is the cost of playing the game, and UC is very helpful in setting up schedules, making recommendations & reservations, etc.

Most of the girls are not professionals so it makes no sense to expect them to guarantee an ending no matter what. But they are categorized so can make the appropriate choice based on what you're looking for. You'll get no guarantee, but if a girl is categorized as generally open to a hotel then ending at dinner is going to be unusual.

Several of us have already joined UC and have experienced no problems with girls trying to get away with a free dinner and the minimal taxi fee.

 

[drewz]

Finally I don't like professional dates with escort girls as most of them only look to their watch and everything is very "scripted". I hope UC girls are less professional and things are more spontaneous. I will see.

I've only been on two dates so far, but both times the date part was quite spontaneous and unhurried. It might be a good idea to ask a girl how much time she has up front though.

Hotel time with the girl who seemed a bit too professional was still much better than my escort experiences, just a bit too scripted and porn-like.

 

[Snippet]

First of all, a thank you for everyone sharing this info.

I'm a new member here, recently moved to Japan. After a few weeks of eye food, the UC concept sounds about right choice for me.

Just a Q on setting fee.. How do you arrange that? Credit card or?

Based in Yokohama and quite limited time in use during the weeks, therefore checking before contacting UC for brief chat.

 

[Serenity Now]

Yes, it can be paid by credit card.

They send a link via email.

Pretty quick and painless. That is unless it needs to be explained to anyone else I guess.

Does not show up as UC, but cannot recall the exact business name that appears.

SN

 

[Wwanderer]

Yes, it's not cheap, but good things in life are never cheap.

I would not go quite that far. Sometimes cheap things are really great imo...but it is NOT a good bet!

I'd also say that at the end of the day, what looks like the cheapest option on its face often turns out to be a very expensive one when you consider *everything*, all the consequences of trying to do it low cost...especially if you value your time realistically.

Finally, imo and based on extensive world travel, Tokyo is one of the places in the world where you are most likely to get what you pay for when you go upmarket.

P.S.: Sorry for my bad English, but I am not a native speaker and I hope it's good enough that people get it, what I want to say

Ditto SN! Your English is perfectly fine, and you make your points more clearly than many many net posters who are native speakers! So please do keep us posted on your Tokyo exploits.

-Ww

 

[PussyPumpa357]

i just wanted to share my UC trial experience after all the chat about the girls. i was fortunate enough to have chosen a girl that is down to earth and doesn't seem to be into games. i say that with only having been on one date as i am still in my trial membership but she called the UC guys before our date and informed them that she started her monthly, but she still wanted to see me. i think the fact that she informed UC of her status says a lot about the quality of women that have on the site, she could have easily not said anything and just went to the hotel and said "oh shit, my period" after having collected her fee, she didnt and we went out and had a great frist date with no expectations and have been emailing back on forth like teenagers in love ever since. not saying we are n love just saying that we hit t off pretty well and she has already told me her schedule so i can plan our next outing.

 

[Serenity Now]

Great report. Good luck in meeting someone down to earth and that you got on so well with on the first date.

No doubt finding someone you click with is the key to making UC 'cost effective'.

Took me a few dates but it has been well worth it. We also keep in touch between dates through email and text messaging and it is a lot of fun. Even exchange photos on occasion.

And I agree that the girls that UC have on their books are overall pretty classy. And UC also do a great job, as was mentioned earlier by drewz they have also helped me out with restaurant reservations, hotel recommendations, etc, so they do support you, not just take the money and run.

SN

 

[Snippet]

Cheers SN!

Oh boy, i need a second credit card & account then... Not free as a bird, but abroad alone ')

 

[drewz]

Just a Q on setting fee.. How do you arrange that? Credit card or?

They'll also accept cash in-person, though that might be a little difficult if you're in Yokohama. I'd feel comfortable paying for a few settings upfront too, they're very professional and provide a receipt.

The Japanese-style ATM bank transfers are an option too, if you have an account.

 

[TAG Manager]

Question:

Is UC run by Japanese or is it foreigner owned/operator?

It seems that this site is also linked to whatever entity is running UC: http://proportion2009.jp/

Nothing negative, just some research.

 

[Serenity Now]

99% sure it is Japanese.

Not anything I want to post in detail, but pretty sure it is locally owned.

SN...

 

[Solong]

@Snippet

You can get a visa card or visa debit card with Suruga Bank, if you need a Japanese one. With their visa debit, you can: deposit money at 7-11stores and others, check balance online and no mail (except to get card), no silly fees, and can use it like a visa card 95% of the time. It's a nice quiet 2nd account.

Application is online, and if you don't read Japanese, have a Japanese friend or co-worker help you.

 

[Tabitha]

I'd be happy to be a sugar baby and agree with the sugar daddy on terms that suited us both x

 

[drewz]

99% sure it is Japanese.

Not anything I want to post in detail, but pretty sure it is locally owned.

Likewise, I'm not sure how much of what I know about UC was told in confidence but seems safe to say that my understanding is it's part of a small diversified adult business group owned by Japanese.

I assume that's how they get the AV stars and adult models to sign up too

 

[TAG Manager]

Thanks for the replies.

I figured that was the case since their level of service is fairly high. (referring to assistance with hotel/restaurant details, etc.)