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Universe Club (uc): Pros And Cons (and Info!)

@Ww

Many women selling their "services" often sign up for several sites/places/agencies. This includes deai/date sites.

For instance Nonnocafe deai/date cafe in Shibuya ( http://www.nonnocafe.com/sp/index_sp.html ) has these huge books full of women. So you could select women from the picture profile book, then they would contact the ladies and check their schedules. You can also schedule for other days, not just when you come to their "cafe". After meeting them, you can get the LINE contact of the women and schedule with her independently.

Many women are actually independent pros (only sex work) or semi-pros (does on the side and has other job/college) who are using several websites/agencies/deai to get several sources of money, customers, or sponsors.

Even though a woman is your "sugar-baby", still can mean she has several other sugar-dadies or is on several other sites/agencies/deai. Guys should keep this mind, even if the relationship is very friendly. She is still a pro or semi-pro.

Sugar-babies VS regular P4P and NP4P

Arguably what can make a sugar-baby special is both the quality or kinkiness of sex AND amount of time she offers. The level of both being equal to NP4P or regular women. Even sexually better, with higher reliability and less emotional baggage.

Any P4P woman can spread her legs like dead fish of limited or no skill. In fact, regular women too, particularly when they are prudish, sexually repressed, or pretending to be an "almost virgin". This can be very unsatisfying for many men, where the woman treats the guy as "bothersome". The GFE performance can be equally unsatisfying too, because you know it's an act for money.

Time wise, on a date with a regular woman, you will often spend 5 hours (until last train) to around 12 hours (morning train). But that 12 hours can include partially sleeping (as in hotel/apartment). The effective "play-time" is 5 to 7 hours. If you have a sugar-baby for 6 hours, it most definitely feels like a true date.

When there is no clock watching and you can be verbally direct about sex with a woman, minus a woman trying to hide herself and present a fake image, an almost magical situation occurs. Where now you can engage in any or many sexual fantasies. Without the clock pressure (regular p4p) or emotional baggage/fakeness (many regular women), it's more possible ti engage in exciting sexual adventures with the sugar-baby. And with the sugar-baby getting off on it too, because she is also emotionally free to do so.

With that said, a NP4P (regular woman) who is sexually adventurous, kinky or high level, and embraces her sexuality can be the best of all. But if you can't find such a NP4P woman, a sugar-baby can be the next best substitute, and a special category of sex-friend. That woman you do all the fun things with.
 
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@Solong

Fwiiw, my experience is that all of what you say about SBs and sugar is true some of the time but not even close to all of it or for all SBs. There are tremendous variations in the women (and the guys) involved, in what they want, in what they do, in their attitudes/feelings about sexual and financial arrangements and pretty much every aspect of relationships. The trick to having a good time in the sugar bowl is to locate a partner whose understanding of and goals for such relationships are compatible with your own, whom you find attractive, and for whom the practicalities of availability, location and so forth match your own reasonably well. UC is one way to carry out this search (trying to stay at least remotely on the topic of the thread).

-Ww
 
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I apologize that the following isnt part of the Pro/Con theme of this thread, but it is Info that I do want to know about.

All five were at either the Club's "gold" or "platinum" (middle two) levels. ("Standard" and "black" levels are the lowest and highest levels, respectively.)

What type of girls did you date with (A-E)? Especially interested in which one transitioned to the girl mentioned below:

Most importantly, one of the five has become a very significant and probably/hopefully permanent person in my life. We do not have a romantic connection, not at all to be clear, but it is something like a very good friendship with wonderful benefits at this point. Even if the "benefits" part ends some day, it seems likely to me that the close friendship and emotional intimacy will continue indefinitely. The sexual part of this connection has also included HBs and group scenes and assorted kinks, as well as more conventional activities (like going to movies).

I know that UC is more of a sugar-daddy club, but what are the chances of going into a romantic relationships with the girls? Also, do you compensate them for every date including the more conventional activities?

The third and final major reason that I stopped using UC's services is that there is now a superior alternative for my (Tokyo sugar) purposes, namely SeekingArrangement (SA).

And lastly, you stated that you changed over to SA. Can I ask you to tell me more about why you made this change? How promising are the girls and how has the arranging-a-date efficiency been?
 
What type of girls did you date with (A-E)? Especially interested in which one transitioned to the girl mentioned below:

To the best of my recollection, there was one C, three Ds and one E. However, I am not completely certain and cannot go and check their profiles because some have left UC (there is a steady turnover), and it is fairly common (I think) for female members to change their dating types as they have more experience with UC/sugar settings/dating.

Other major factors in my selections were English ability and whether or not something about their profile caught my attention as particularly unusual or intriguing.

I know that UC is more of a sugar-daddy club, but what are the chances of going into a romantic relationships with the girls?

I don't know the chances in a statistical sense, just not enough data, but I do know that it has happened...quite serious romantic relationships in some cases, perhaps even leading to marriage in one case. Some women's profiles even state that they are interested in finding a long term partner. I do not think that UC (or SA) is a particularly attractive option if your main goal is to find a np4p conventional romantic relationship, but I also think that it is sensible for both of you to be open to the possibility of one arising.

Also, do you compensate them for every date including the more conventional activities?

Generally speaking I do...in most cases, but the financial arrangements tend to evolve if you continue seeing each other for a period of time, and there are many options. What might be called "classical sugar dating" involves monthly support (sometimes called an "allowance") that she receives independent of how many dates there are in a given month or what activities they involve. Anyway, unless you seek the "thinly disguised prostitution" end of the spectrum of sugar dating, I would advise against making the compensation on a given date depend on whether or not it involves sex.

And lastly, you stated that you changed over to SA. Can I ask you to tell me more about why you made this change? How promising are the girls and how has the arranging-a-date efficiency been?

That's not quite right. I have been active on SA for well over 8 years now, since before UC was founded I think but in any case for a good number of years before I was even aware of UC. However, for a long time there were very few SBs on SA located in Tokyo...and fewer still active at any given time (SA is full of "dead profiles", belonging to people who have not accessed their accounts in months or years). And there were almost no Japanese SBs on SA in Tokyo for a long time. So, it was the absence of opportunities on SA that brought me to UC. However, as mentioned in my post above, the situation has now changed and SA offers more SBs who speak fluent English than UC, especially Westerners.

As for the second question, because anyone can put up a profile for free and without significant screening on SA, just about every imaginable type of SB with just about any conceivable type of sugar goal is to be found on SA...truly all over the place. But it is easy enough to see for yourself; sign up for a free account on SA and browse away (you'll only have to pay when/if you want to contact some SB or respond to her contacting you). As for efficiency, the chance that you will actually get to meet a woman you try to contact via SA is quite a bit below that on UC, but if you compared contacting the *same* woman via UC vs via SA (and lots of women have profiles on both), it is probably about the same.

I hope that helps.

-Ww
 
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I know that UC is more of a sugar-daddy club, but what are the chances of going into a romantic relationships with the girls? Also, do you compensate them for every date including the more conventional activities?

UC has never stated or presented itself as a sugar-daddy club and various women are not on there for that purpose.

Technically and traditionally, sugar-babies aren't paid directly per date, but monthly and straight to the bank account. As if it were a job. However, that's more difficult to setup these days, because of the more prevalent attitude to scam others or desire for instant gratification.

Japan also has a long tradition, where women are in blurry long term sexual relationships for money or gifts. From hostesses (called sponsors instead of sugar-daddies) to even marriages based on money, not love.

Consequently, that's why it's so extremely difficult to impossible to crack down on. Thus arguably paying women for sex is still legal in Japan, though other aspects of prostitution is not (pimping and brothels). There is NO direct, hand to hand, cash payment to the woman to be seen. However, the traditional sugar-baby way requires a true high level of trust, where the woman doesn't just scam guys and runaway with their cash or not have sex. And many women these days are mercenary and untrustworthy to that level. A true sugar-baby requires a woman to truly be honorable, trustworthy, and often have a higher understanding of male sexuality and/or what things are satisfying to a particular man.

Per date payment is more aligned with prostitution and escorts. You are paying for a specific service. That you see the woman repeatedly, doesn't mean she is a sugar-baby or is in anyway trustworthy and cares about you.

You can create sugar-baby relationships with UC ladies. But for that matter, you can try (at various levels of success) to create such relationships with escorts, deai/date cafes, or even NP4P dating sites. Depends on the guy, receptiveness of the particular woman, and negotiating skills.

SA, is specifically for sugar-babies. However it's not as easy as it might seem. Trust, honor, sexual compatibility, emotions, etc... are all factors. And the type of sex or relationship is important too, in a make or break way. It's not the same as calling a woman over to the hotel. A guy may want her to act a certain way or require to have better skills than dead fish laying on the bed, have a certain fetish, or be kinky.

To use UC or SA for forming sugar-baby relationships, the guy needs to know what he is doing and what his goals are. If the guy doesn't know what he is doing, things can become very problematic or unsatisfying.
 
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Thanks for the info Solong. That definitely makes things clearer. I have to admit that I am walking blindly into the world of sugar-daddies/babies, so its good to know what you just told us.

I do however want to correct you on one thing.

UC has never stated or presented itself as a sugar-daddy club and various women are not on there for that purpose.

UC actually does kind-of present itself as a sugar-daddy club. I understand their service is flexible and not just focused on the sugar-daddy/baby market but it does state the following at the top of their web page:

Tokyo Elite Dating Club
Become a Tokyo sugar daddy,find your sugar baby. Never experienced affairs, excitement..sex? We provide safe access to motivated Japanese girls.
 
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UC has never stated or presented itself as a sugar-daddy club and various women are not on there for that purpose.

I do however want to correct you on one thing.

You beat me to it...

I can add that more than one member of the UC staff has described their services to me using the term "sugar dating". They also use the Japanese words "enjou kosai" a lot; it means "compensated dating" and is pretty nearly indistinguishable from sugar dating as far as I can see. Furthermore, many of the female members of UC will tell you that they are looking for a sugar arrangement after the "setting" first date or after a few "per meeting" allowance dates.

Btw and as an aside, I have met more women who have UC profiles via SA than I have by taking UC settings directly, only five of the latter as per my posts above. This, of course, is one reason that I no longer see much advantage of paying the premium to use UC...again as mentioned in posts above.

-Ww
 
@Solong - Responses to a few points in your post.

Technically and traditionally, sugar-babies aren't paid directly per date, but monthly and straight to the bank account. As if it were a job.

While that is true in principle, it is not true in practice in the sense that many (a substantial majority I suspect) of the relationships that emerge from SA contacts and which are described by both parties as a sugar arrangement do not follow that pattern/system. A "per meeting allowance" is probably the most common, but there are others as well, such as no exchange of money at all but instead regular shopping sprees and expensive gifts or such as the SD covering some major expense of the SB's (e.g., college tuition or loans, apartment rent). In some cases the SB just asks for expensive luxury experiences, traveling first class, five star hotels or whatever.

Of course you are free to define sugar in whatever way you choose, as are the people who are actually in the sugar world/bowl, but that is only semantics. Relatively few who consider themselves SBs and are considered to be SBs by their partners receive monthly deposits to their bank accounts, I am fairly sure.

However, the traditional sugar-baby way requires a true high level of trust, where the woman doesn't just scam guys and runaway with their cash or not have sex. And many women these days are mercenary and untrustworthy to that level.

Perhaps this is a good place to note another "pro" for UC (and thus keep the post slightly on topic). There is a huge amount of scamming on SA coming from both sides of the bed...though overall I'd say there are more SDs trying to scam SBs than vice versa but plenty of both. I get several obvious scam attempt contacts per week from my SA profile. These are much much rarer on UC in my experience due to the Club's screening and identity check system. SA is "the street" while UC is a private member's club, metaphorically speaking.

To use UC or SA for forming sugar-baby relationships, the guy needs to know what he is doing and what his goals are. If the guy doesn't know what he is doing, things can become very problematic or unsatisfying.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/y/yogiberra124868.html

-Ww
 
Thanks for the info Solong. That definitely makes things clearer. I have to admit that I am walking blindly into the world of sugar-daddies/babies, so its good to know what you just told us.

I do however want to correct you on one thing.

UC actually does kind-of present itself as a sugar-daddy club. I understand their service is flexible and not just focused on the sugar-daddy/baby market but it does state the following at the top of their web page:

Tokyo Elite Dating Club
Become a Tokyo sugar daddy,find your sugar baby. Never experienced affairs, excitement..sex? We provide safe access to motivated Japanese girls.

I stand corrected on those words. LOL! Not sure why I forgot or overlooked...

But my opinion of UC is it's using the words, versus actual practice and system. Just like when it categorizies itself as a "dating club" or dating website. It comes off as an intentional mislabeling, which is understandable marketing and legal semantics.

SeekingArrangement and sites like sugardaddie.com and sugardaddymeet.com are clearly for the purpose in no unambiguous terms and focuses on that. It's not verbal or marketing gymnastics. It addresses sugar-baby relationships in a very direct way, to include monthly payments.

Enjo kousai isn't exactly sugar-dating, though it can include it. It's a much wider and broader category, that includes the classical definition of prostitution and even buying gifts which borders on normal dating relationships.

My beef with UC on sugar-dating, is you the customer have to turn it into a sugar-daddy situation, because otherwise, it's just like an escort service with per date payment. And the cost per date, when setting fees and membership is added, is similar to expensive escort pricing.

If you have to "turn" the situation into sugar-dating, you can do that a multitude of other ways. You can "turn" escort women, deai/date cafe women, swinger club women, regular dating website women, or even the college girl down the street into sugar-babies.

Turning women into sugar-babies, being a sugar-daddy, or getting what you want out of sugar-dating is also a skill.

I've used SeekingArrangements, and mentioned it on this website years ago. It was one of my counter-arguments to UC. Even there, on a site dedicated for the purpose, I learned some good lessons.

Plenty of women are willing to take your money, in exchange for her doing the minimum possible or she attempts to "cheat" the guy whenever possible. Examples:

1) She's terrible at sex or very sexually inhibited, just pretty/very pretty like a doll.

Wearing lingerie, swinger clubs, or any adventurous sex or whatever you really want to do is out of the question, or she tries to slyly not do. She offers bad blow jobs and dead dish missionary position, but wants that bank deposit on time and any other perk you can give. Her primary "claim to fame" is being pretty and narcissistic, rather than much else.

2) She's constantly looking for a new sugar-daddy

She has none to little loyalty or honor. Whenever she thinks that she can get a better deal, she's ice cold and out.

3) She's as devious or as untrustworthy as a rattlesnake

That is, she will do whatever can be thought up of for cheating you out of time, money, getting you to buy extra gifts, weird stories and excuses, etc...

I've had very good and bad experiences. I'm just saying, it doesn't necessarily all go smoothly and easily. A guy should be mindful of what he really wants from a woman and what he is doing.
 
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@Solong - Responses to a few points in your post.



While that is true in principle, it is not true in practice in the sense that many (a substantial majority I suspect) of the relationships that emerge from SA contacts and which are described by both parties as a sugar arrangement do not follow that pattern/system. A "per meeting allowance" is probably the most common, but there are others as well, such as no exchange of money at all but instead regular shopping sprees and expensive gifts or such as the SD covering some major expense of the SB's (e.g., college tuition or loans, apartment rent). In some cases the SB just asks for expensive luxury experiences, traveling first class, five star hotels or whatever.

-Ww

A sugar-baby that justs wants a good time, gifts, and experiencing a certain lifestyle don't usually come from sugar-baby websites, from my observation. These are more often regular women, not pros, "turned" to sugar-babies, quasi-girlfriends, or are angling to marry you.

One of my points is that you can "turn" women into sugar-babies from multiple other ways and sites. Many guys don't realize this. However, it's a skill, where UC makes the conversion process way easier.

From sugar-baby websites, women are often very very conscious about their money and getting paid. They are often pro or semi-pro. For a self-designated sugar-baby (as opposed to women converted for the purpose) to come out of that P4P mindset, money and gifts must be free-flowing from the guy, where she knows their value equals or exceeds her asking price or she's angling to be his real girlfriend/wife. Often a nearly rich or rich guy, not ordinary or just better than average guy. But the downside to such a woman, is they are often very predatory, despite her act. It's still all about his money and her taking advantage, not the guy. "Money can't buy you love." But a good actress, yeah.
 
@Ww

Monthly VS Per Date Payment

I'm surprised you aren't aware of this or aren't implementing monthly more. It's old school, and has many advantages and is aligned with traditional Japanese practices, such as hostess or enjo kousai.

How it's advantageous was taught to me by an older Japanese gentleman, and the knowledge has come in handy over the years in Japan. I will try my best to explain it, as how it was explained to me.

Why Monthly:

1) Japanese Female Mindset

For many Japanese women, when you hand them an envelope stuffed full of money, there is a certain level of shame and "dirtiness" attached to it. Unless she has totally embraced being a prostitute, and a pro for many years, which can be highly problematic for any long term relationship. This is often operating at the subconscious level.

That feeling of "shame", "dirtiness", or "disgust" is also attached to you, the person giving them the money, and the acts (sexual acts) you are doing. Thus it can have an overall negative affect. She's more likely to want to get rid of you, exit the date, or just think less of the interaction.

You may want to detach and separate this from your relationship. In the monthly context, she feels less like a prostitute, and more like your 2nd wife, true mistress, or even employee (there is an entire side path with this).

2) Focus on Money VS You and Sex

In addition to this, the woman's focus can be on the money you are giving her and she can't wait until your date is over or she is thinking about all the things she will do and spend the money on. You are fucking her, she's thinking about that new red dress.

In a monthly context, as no money exchanged that day, YOU or SEX becomes the greater or more likely focus.

It's more likely to completely kill clock watching (it becomes the equivalent of a date) and encourages sexual fantasy and adventure play.

Had a sugar-baby years ago (heavy experimenting into that style during that time), where our relationship lasted over a year. She fantastically did pretty much everything. She was bi and picked up OTHER women for me on dates, swinger clubs, swinger parties, she liked anal, and was a joy to talk with. This is in stark contrast to those women that act dead wood fake, are clock watching, and give off a bored prostitute-like vibe with that strained smile. I mention her, in terms of the quality that can be had, versus that many guys are settling for so little and women lacking in ability or giving satisfaction.

3) Planning The Month Not Only A Day

When you have a monthly payment, you talk of meetings for the entire month, and things are more likely to achieve regularity or regular patterns. She's more likely to say we meet every Friday, versus haggling each week over meeting day or her skipping days.

4) Your Payments Become Integrated Into Her Budget

She counts on your payment to pay her rent or you can have it arranged, where you are paying her rent or utility bills.

Note- Instead of paying her bank account directly, paying her rent and utility bills is a way to disguise payments.

There becomes a connection between you, which is very much like girlfriend/boyfriend or wife/husband. It's not an act or pretense, it's more an intertwining.

How To Implement Monthly?

You meet her the 1st time as a dinner date. Make sure you have plenty of time to talk, no rushed coffee dates. You of course are paying. Discuss such an arrangement with her. It becomes you interviewing her, and you seeing if you can make a deal. Usually, no sex that night, UNLESS you struck a deal.

You would pick a date in which you will start seeing each other. If half the month has past, then half payment. You can also limit payment to only 2 weeks, as a trial to see how she performs. It's hard to explain, but women who are trustworthy, tend to make this more apparent to you. They will make sure things go well and you are satisfied.

There is no 2nd date for negotiations, if she can't come to terms. A mistake many guys, including Japanese guys, make because the woman starts gaming them and claims to be thinking it over. In a negotiation, that's a bad move for the guy. It works better as a take it or leave it proposition on the 1st date.

This can be implemented in the UC context, but actually in any date context, you can offer women a sugar-baby relationship. How well the guy does depends on his negotiating skill.
 
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A sugar-baby that justs wants a good time, gifts, and experiencing a certain lifestyle don't usually come from sugar-baby websites, from my observation.

Fwiiw, I have met several that way and in fact am currently corresponding with one that I hope to meet within a few weeks. She has already explicitly told me that she does not accept monetary gifts and is not looking for any sort of serious relationship. I met one a couple of years ago via SA who stated that she wanted only access to experiences and not money from an SD in her SA profile and turned out to mean exactly what she said. We got along so well that we became very close, and she ended up living with me for a few months. If you browse SA for a while, it is not too hard to find women who state that they are searching for a serious romance (I do not meet these women myself and so cannot say if they are sincere) and do not want it to involve monetary gifts...a smallish minority but not a teeny tiny one.

http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehamletdreamt.html

If you don't start out believing that you already know what an SB (or any woman) is going to be like, they can often surprise you (and sometimes themselves as well).

To be clear, what you say in the quote and quoted post may well be correct in the majority of cases, but as I have mentioned before, exceptions are reasonably common and for some (including me) much more important and rewarding than the typical cases.

-Ww
 
Monthly VS Per Date Payment

Some of the points in your quoted post involve much more manipulative/mind-gaming treatment of women than is comfortable for me; I try to be totally straight forward, honest, clear and direct with my partners in order to encourage/motivate them to be equally so with me. I have had fantastic luck/success imo with this atypical approach, a topic on which our discussions have touched previously.

However, I do agree with some of the advantages of the monthly support approach you mention and have no objection to it in principle. The reasons that I don't do more of it are due in large part to my personal circumstances and are not relevant for most guys. In particular I travel outside Japan A LOT (thus my screen name), often for a few months at a time. (I am nearing the end of a two month absence now, in fact.) Another factor is that my work schedule is VERY irregular and hard to predict, so meeting on a set pattern (every Friday night or whatever) is not usually practical for me. Still another, which does apply to a lot of guys, is that I prefer to minimize any paper trail associated with my sugar dating. I also tend to be seeing multiple SBs at any one time (a fact which I tell them, btw), and the flexibility to switch around the frequency with which I see any particular one of them is very helpful. This is easily done with per meeting cash payments but is awkward in the monthly deposit system.

A lot of what you say above is about Japanese SBs/women, but a rather substantial majority of the women I meet via SA are not Japanese, so some of your points are not relevant for around 75-80% of my sugar bowl playmates.

Btw, my SA profile states that per meeting sugar arrangements are much more practical than monthly payment ones for me, so an SB that meets me knows this in advance (if she bothers to read my profile...not all do).

-Ww
 
With UC, what caliber of girl does the Black level get a member that Platinum does not? Is it worth the huge premium?
 
With UC, what caliber of girl does the Black level get a member that Platinum does not? Is it worth the huge premium?

The most apparent difference that I perceive is that the Black level indicates a woman who has achieved some sort of significant professional success based on her beauty and/or sexiness. They tend to be professional models, AV stars, actresses, TV personalities and so forth who actually make an income from such work. If that would mean a lot to you, then the premium may be worth it; otherwise, maybe not so much.

-Ww
 
For any readers who can understand Japanese, they were featured on a Japanese TV show a few months back. Check out the clip below, it's covered as a "Sugar daddy club" nothing else. :rolleyes:
 
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