Cheating

lennylenny

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Alright people, i wanna hear from you: what do you think about cheating? at what point does it become cheating? did you ever cheat? under what circumstances?

i heard that in Japan p4p is not considered cheating. does anyone confirm that?

Thanks!
 
I'm the one girl kind of guy, so once I get a gf/fiancé, wife, that's it. I don't share. Of course if we break up then I'll play the field again. If I were to get with another girl while with someone then I call that cheating. If I'm single, the girl isn't, and we bang then cheating. If I'm cheated on, well that's it. :D

That's just me though.
 
Well, as the old wisdom goes.....

1336505136089_3370335.png
 
@Sudsy I really like the sound of your e-card, and may make it my new moral code of conduct, but I have no idea what it really means. Can you help explain?

"Eatin ain't cheatin" does this mean that just going out to dinner and "eating" is not cheating?
"Sucking ain't fucking" Oral sex (sucking) is not fucking, and therefore it is not cheating either, and therefore it is OK?

I hope so!
 
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I'm the one girl kind of guy, so once I get a gf/fiancé, wife, that's it. I don't share. Of course if we break up then I'll play the field again. If I were to get with another girl while with someone then I call that cheating. If I'm single, the girl isn't, and we bang then cheating. If I'm cheated on, well that's it. :D

That's just me though.

i agree with all that you said, and i try to do the same as you, but i cant say that i never cheated, that would be a lie.

also, to some people, as Sudsy clearly stated, there are some boundaries about cheating, of some sort. I, personally, think that even if my SO or myself are merely, for example, flirting on the web, that is cheating already.
 
Well, as the old wisdom goes.....

1336505136089_3370335.png


so, if you go to a party with your gf, the 3 of us meet and at some point me and your GF decide to go to the toilet so she can suck me off, would you be ok with that?
 
so, if you go to a party with your gf, the 3 of us meet and at some point me and your GF decide to go to the toilet so she can suck me off, would you be ok with that?

Any particular reason you feel the need to be rude?
 
Any particular reason you feel the need to be rude?
no, no man, i wasnt being rude at all! maybe i was too drastic in my example, but lets reverse it then: if it were you and my gf then, would you consider her to be cheating?
 
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Well, since you put it that way, as long as all parties are in agreement, what's the problem?

If it's being done surreptitiously, I think there would be a larger problem in that it was occurring at a social gathering with (presumably) mutual friends present who may not understand the arrangement.
 
Well, since you put it that way, as long as all parties are in agreement, what's the problem?

If it's being done surreptitiously, I think there would be a larger problem in that it was occurring at a social gathering with (presumably) mutual friends present who may not understand the arrangement.
i wasnt considering an agreement. so, if there is no consent from the partner not involved in the act (even if its oral sex) would it be cheating, then? im just trying to make some sense out of these latest posts.
 
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My view on it is it boils down to feelings of insecurity. When people are in a committed relationship there is no time for seeing other people. Marriage, kids and grown up stuff but who wants that right? Lying is different. That's when you get in trouble then bad communication usually follows.
 
It's only cheating if you get caught...:p

If you have to hide it is cheating. The problem lies in that monogamy is considered so much the default in most societies that a lot of people who would prefer an open relationship and being honest get pushed into cheating. Say on your first date that you want an open relationship, and most people will walk out. I don’t defend cheating and I’m too clumsy to do it myself, but is so common that is clear a lot of people feel conflicted by the concept of being monogamous for very long periods of time.

Lying over time only makes the physical unfaithfulness worse, at some point is not only about sex and it becomes an emotional betray. As it often is the case the person you are cheating with knows about the person who is being cheated, while the person being cheated only finds out about the other at the last time (pardon for stating the obvious); despite all claims of the opposite and saying that cheating was only a physical fling, the true is that there is also very deep emotional intimacy in most cases of cheating and at moment in time people usually opened more to the person they were cheating with than to the one being cheated, even if they never intended to leave one for the other.

Furthermore, the default being monogamy, an also awful lot of people feel entitled to impose even more strict restrictions over their partners, like not flirting, or not having close friends from the opposite gender, not looking at porn, or not even looking at strangers outside. If your partner flips out because you flirted with the barista at the cafe, you might as well go the extra mile and go to bed with him/her the next time.

On a deeper non snarky way, it’s also true that “it's only cheating if you get caught.” Cheating happens so often, and most people are guilty of having done it at some time (maybe not in the current relationship, but surely in others in the past), that most relationships work under the delusion that they are the exemption. You know all your friends have been cheated at least once, you one at least a handful of them are being cheated right now, but as long as you cannot prove your parter is cheating on you, then he/she is not cheating.

This applies to both men and women.

i heard that in Japan p4p is not considered cheating. does anyone confirm that?

I have only heard it here. Good luck quoting TAG in your defense if you are found out cheating. I don’t think anyone out there thinks remotely that way.

What is true, not only in Japan but in many other countries as well, is that cheating with a escort is less threatening to a relationship. The escort won’t try to make it public and doesn’t hold feelings for the other person. She will only ‘help him cheat’ as long as money keeps coming in. The cheater needs to pay to see the escort, which immediately limits how many times he can see her, and also leaves a trace in his finances that his partner can track down. Furthermore, if the cheated person finds out and forgives its partner, they both can agree to don’t disclose it (unless the guy brags about doing P4P around). Having seeing a escort in the past is easier to hide than having had an affair at the office or in your neighborhood, people around you find out, it becomes an open secret among friends and acquittances, and even if the cheated person wants to forgive the other, her social reputation and pride are stake.

Finally, don’t forget that most people react irrationally to the risk of STDs in P4P and fear escorts. If you think some comments on this forum to sex workers can be offensive then forget about the real world, most people keep it to themselves but even ‘nice people’ cannot think of escorts without immediately panicking about STDs and seeing escort as a hazard. Protection, statistics, etc. nothing of it matters. A partner is sure to freak out and ask you to put a stop if she discovers or suspects that you are seeing an escort, only because of the fear to STDs. And off course, there is the money issue. P4P costs a lot. No partner is going to feel happy about that either.

P4P applies mostly to men, so I didn’t even bother trying to write the comment above gender neutral. There might be a few female exceptions, but is mostly men that we are talking about.
 
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Cheating suggests there are rules to break. Supposedly marriage has rules both legal and moral. BF/GF more moral (defacto, too?). If those rules change in a marriage, for example, sex/care/love has disappeared, is finding sex etc. outside of that marriage 'cheating'?
 
I have only heard it here. Good luck quoting TAG in your defense if you are found out cheating. I don’t think anyone out there thinks remotely that way.
I think you may be surprised.
I only have experience in Japan, but from what I understand (from personal experience, and hearing from friends), childbirth marks the beginning of then end for a satisfactory sex life for many. After multiple kids, I'm pretty sure my wife is happy that I don't pester her for sex. While we don't talk about it directly, I'm sure she knows what goes on on the Tokyo business trips.
 
Cheating suggests there are rules to break. Supposedly marriage has rules both legal and moral. BF/GF more moral (defacto, too?). If those rules change in a marriage, for example, sex/care/love has disappeared, is finding sex etc. outside of that marriage 'cheating'?

I was surprised to read, from TokyoJoeBlow many posts about divorcing his wife, how legally there is little ambiguity about cheating regardless of circumstances. Cheating goes against the marriage and you can even be sued for that or made responsible for the divorce.

Not only in Japan but in many countries monogamy is the default assumption in a legal marriage. I don’t know that much in detail, but I was surprised how strict it still is.

I think you may be surprised.
I only have experience in Japan, but from what I understand (from personal experience, and hearing from friends), childbirth marks the beginning of then end for a satisfactory sex life for many. After multiple kids, I'm pretty sure my wife is happy that I don't pester her for sex. While we don't talk about it directly, I'm sure she knows what goes on on the Tokyo business trips.

I don’t deny what you describe, it is also something I have heard a few times outside this forum (then again, it was in similar contexts and with similarly minded people), but I think it’s greatly overstated in this forum. We are surrounded by people on very similar situations, in this forum and in our personal circles, so we tend to extrapolate and believe that polygamy, cheating, and seeing escorts is the norm. I’m not against it, I’m just saying that most people play by different rules. Escorts are a very big no for most people. In fact, I would say they are one of the biggest Not Good in a relationship, specially marriage, so much that a lot of people excuse other partner’s annoyances based solely on that: the belief that the other partner remains faithful.
 
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i wasnt considering an agreement. so, if there is no consent from the partner not involved in the act (even if its oral sex) would it be cheating, then? im just trying to make some sense out of these latest posts.

Jules:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... stop right there. Eatin' a bitch out, and givin' a bitch a foot massage ain't even the same fuckin' thing.
---Vincent: It's not. It's the same ballpark.
---Jules: Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touchin' his wife's feet, and stickin' your tongue in her Holiest of Holies, ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. Look, foot massages don't mean shit.
---Vincent: Have you ever given a foot massage?
---Jules: Don't be tellin' me about foot massages. I'm the foot fuckin' master.
---Vincent: Given a lot of 'em?
---Jules: Shit yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don't be ticklin' or nothin'.
---Vincent: Would you give a guy a foot massage?
---Jules: Fuck you.
---Vincent: You give them a lot?
---Jules: Fuck you.
 
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If you have to hide it is cheating. The problem lies in that monogamy is considered so much the default in most societies that a lot of people who would prefer an open relationship and being honest get pushed into cheating. Say on your first date that you want an open relationship, and most people will walk out. I don’t defend cheating and I’m too clumsy to do it myself, but is so common that is clear a lot of people feel conflicted by the concept of being monogamous for very long periods of time.

Lying over time only makes the physical unfaithfulness worse, at some point is not only about sex and it becomes an emotional betray. As it often is the case the person you are cheating with knows about the person who is being cheated, while the person being cheated only finds out about the other at the last time (pardon for stating the obvious); despite all claims of the opposite and saying that cheating was only a physical fling, the true is that there is also very deep emotional intimacy in most cases of cheating and at moment in time people usually opened more to the person they were cheating with than to the one being cheated, even if they never intended to leave one for the other.

Furthermore, the default being monogamy, an also awful lot of people feel entitled to impose even more strict restrictions over their partners, like not flirting, or not having close friends from the opposite gender, not looking at porn, or not even looking at strangers outside. If your partner flips out because you flirted with the barista at the cafe, you might as well go the extra mile and go to bed with him/her the next time.

On a deeper non snarky way, it’s also true that “it's only cheating if you get caught.” Cheating happens so often, and most people are guilty of having done it at some time (maybe not in the current relationship, but surely in others in the past), that most relationships work under the delusion that they are the exemption. You know all your friends have been cheated at least once, you one at least a handful of them are being cheated right now, but as long as you cannot prove your parter is cheating on you, then he/she is not cheating.

This applies to both men and women.



I have only heard it here. Good luck quoting TAG in your defense if you are found out cheating. I don’t think anyone out there thinks remotely that way.

What is true, not only in Japan but in many other countries as well, is that cheating with a escort is less threatening to a relationship. The escort won’t try to make it public and doesn’t hold feelings for the other person. She will only ‘help him cheat’ as long as money keeps coming in. The cheater needs to pay to see the escort, which immediately limits how many times he can see her, and also leaves a trace in his finances that his partner can track down. Furthermore, if the cheated person finds out and forgives its partner, they both can agree to don’t disclose it (unless the guy brags about doing P4P around). Having seeing a escort in the past is easier to hide than having had an affair at the office or in your neighborhood, people around you find out, it becomes an open secret among friends and acquittances, and even if the cheated person wants to forgive the other, her social reputation and pride are stake.

Finally, don’t forget that most people react irrationally to the risk of STDs in P4P and fear escorts. If you think some comments on this forum to sex workers can be offensive then forget about the real world, most people keep it to themselves but even ‘nice people’ cannot think of escorts without immediately panicking about STDs and seeing escort as a hazard. Protection, statistics, etc. nothing of it matters. A partner is sure to freak out and ask you to put a stop if she discovers or suspects that you are seeing an escort, only because of the fear to STDs. And off course, there is the money issue. P4P costs a lot. No partner is going to feel happy about that either.

P4P applies mostly to men, so I didn’t even bother trying to write the comment above gender neutral. There might be a few female exceptions, but is mostly men that we are talking about.
Bingo! In total agreement with this comment. "If you have to HIDE it, it's cheating".

And I also agree with the thinking that many people aren't in true mutually agreed monogamous relationships, but "forced" monogamous relationships due to social pressure, selfishness, jealousy, or emotional immaturity.

And another variation, serial monogamy, is little better. I noticed many will pretend this is more virtuous. Like she (usually girls pull this one) keeps several guys (orbiters) around her, and then monkey branches or slyly jumping to the next guy/girl (guys pull this one too), whenever anything little thing goes wrong or when the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence. Another variation is running through multiple one night stands, and running away after sex. As if this dishonest or sneaky behavior is anyway superior to sexual honesty or dating 2 or more people at once.

A huge percentage of people cheat behind each other's back and lie in each other's face. Many societies or various people don't/can't accept polyamorous or swinger style relationships, even when it would be more beneficial. Instead they rather live a lie of "don't ask, don't tell", where they sneak and cheat. I find this sad, where more people can't be comfortable or accepting of open-relationships or being upfront about sexuality.
 
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A huge percentage of people cheat behind each other's back and lie in each other's face. Many societies or various people don't/can't accept polyamorous or swinger style relationships, even when it would be more beneficial. Instead they rather live a lie of "don't ask, don't tell", where they sneak and cheat. I find this sad, where more people can't be comfortable or accepting of open-relationships or being upfront about sexuality.

It's an ego thing most of us never really get out of.
 
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