Binge Drinking

[Jbagz]

How so? I know where I'm from (a big city in Europe) the religious angle plays a very minor role, with the exception on the serenity prayer which is more of a motto

I've only been to four meetings meetings, two of those were going to hear my sister speak and the other two were with my girlfriend after she got a DUI.

As an atheist, the "higher power" seemed like a very flimsy attempt to veil proselytizing.

However, that isn't even what I was referring to when I claimed they were "full of shit".

The notion that having a person admit they are utterly powerless over alcohol might make sense when you are getting a person to recognize their vulnerability in the first few weeks of the program.

In my opinion, this becomes a flawed and potentially damaging philosophy when you are talking about a person like my sister who has been sober for nearly 20 years.

It seems the program has made her into a perpetual victim, one who has merely replaced an addiction to alcohol with a dependency on group meetings.

I'll admit that initially, it was safer having my sister in a AA meeting rather than a bar, but what was the toll of 20 years of sitting in those meetings listening to virtually the same gut wrenching stories week after week?

Depression and some group induced form of PTSD is what you get from doing that.

Another reason that I claim AA is "full of shit" is the culture of those meetings strikes me as totally bizarre.

I listened to a a guy speak about ruining his life, and interspersing the really sad parts with little witticisms. When looked around the room, I saw people either beaming with pride at him, or raptly head nodding and repeating cliches.

It appeared to me that some were wallowing in this guy's misery and maybe even reveling in it.

Sure, AA has helped millions of people. I don't think it is necessarily the healthiest long term solution to addiction though.

Here is another point to ponder. It is an incredibly old program that hasn't been updated to reflect what the field of psychology has learned about the human condition in recent decades.

 

[Jbagz]

Late to the thread but...
Jbagz, you're not alone, I have the exact same problem.
I feel really run down (not in a physical manner) after a night of heavy drinking. I've often noticed most of my colleagues don't have the same issue so I had nicknamed my problem "Torky's Post Drinking Blues" or post-drink depression.

I too start pondering about what I'm doing in my life, I feel like I don't want to do anything but just play vidya games and sleep to forget it all.
Having certain responsibilities at work, I can temporarily take my mind off this feeling till it wears off though. I still feel sad but at least I don't have time to think about it.

I've personally theorised it was because when you hit that high or mild euphoria, the next day when the after effects kick in, The sudden drop in that feeling of 'happiness' is something I am rather sensitive to.

Similarly, I binge drink but not to the point of unconciousness or memory loss (except for 2 occasions in one particular bar in Kabukicho which I think I got spiked). Alot more than 5 in 2 hours though. I have absolutely no control and can spend almost 30000 to 60000 yen on drink (with friends of course). Only regretting it majorly the next day
Can't handle shochu very well - the aftermath hangover and vomiting does not sit well at all with me.
But give me anything else and I'm good to go! The buzz, the confidence, the libido that comes with it (oh boy do I get horny with Alcohol!). Ahh... just the thought of it simply draws me back to drink.

Recently, If not binge drinnking, I seldom try to touch alcohol. Maybe the occasional beer on a tough day at work but that's all

Thanks for posting this!

While I have appreaciated everyone's response, this is really what I was curious about.

Alcohol really drags my mood down, and I'm not talking about because of behaving irresponsible while drunk.

I can sit at home drinking and just listening to music, then go to sleep. The next day, I'm down in the dumps and dwelling on the most depressing things imaginable.

I'm done with it, whatever use or joy it gave me in years past is no more.

 

[BladeRunner]

I've only been to four meetings meetings, two of those were going to hear my sister speak and the other two were with my girlfriend after she got a DUI.

As an atheist, the "higher power" seemed like a very flimsy attempt to veil proselytizing.

However, that isn't even what I was referring to when I claimed they were "full of shit".

The notion that having a person admit they are utterly powerless over alcohol might make sense when you are getting a person to recognize their vulnerability in the first few weeks of the program.

In my opinion, this becomes a flawed and potentially damaging philosophy when you are talking about a person like my sister who has been sober for nearly 20 years.

It seems the program has made her into a perpetual victim, one who has merely replaced an addiction to alcohol with a dependency on group meetings.

I'll admit that initially, it was safer having my sister in a AA meeting rather than a bar, but what was the toll of 20 years of sitting in those meetings listening to virtually the same gut wrenching stories week after week?

Depression and some group induced form of PTSD is what you get from doing that.

Another reason that I claim AA is "full of shit" is the culture of those meetings strikes me as totally bizarre.

I listened to a a guy speak about ruining his life, and interspersing the really sad parts with little witticisms. When looked around the room, I saw people either beaming with pride at him, or raptly head nodding and repeating cliches.

It appeared to me that some were wallowing in this guy's misery and maybe even reveling in it.

Sure, AA has helped millions of people. I don't think it is necessarily the healthiest long term solution to addiction though.

Here is another point to ponder. It is an incredibly old program that hasn't been updated to reflect what the field of psychology has learned about the human condition in recent decades.

Yeah interesting - I agree it could be due for an update at some level. But it's all about sharing problems to increase your own understanding (and importantly, acceptance) of yours. I'm not sure psychology has advanced so much that 'telling stories' can be done some other way. It's simple, run by amateurs in church halls.

Most of it is gauged around taking it one day at a time - even over decades. Because it's reeeeally easy to slip back into drinking - alcohol is reinforced constantly as something you can't control.
The moment you think you can control it, that's when you have that one beer, that one glass of wine and it all goes wrong again (it's never just one)

I think "full of shit" is a little harsh. It's not Scientology.

Having said that, I can imagine that in the USA there may be a lot more beaming, and sickly, huggy support and use of the world "love" which I would also hate.

In the U.K. we don't behave like that so much. It's more dry, gallows humour at meetings I've attended.

 

[DocMcStuffins]

Full of shit? I don't know. But in the USA judges routinely send people to AA even though there are no public stats on how successful they are. I'm suspicious - there was a good article about this in Atlantic Monthly recently.

I've been getting treatment for alcoholism this past year by seeing a conventional psychologist. If I lived in Finland, I'd go to outpatient facility where they embrace drug treatment to a much greater extent.

 

[Jbagz]

Yeah interesting - I agree it could be due for an update at some level. But it's all about sharing problems to increase your own understanding (and importantly, acceptance) of yours. I'm not sure psychology has advanced so much that 'telling stories' can be done some other way. It's simple, run by amateurs in church halls.

Most of it is gauged around taking it one day at a time - even over decades. Because it's reeeeally easy to slip back into drinking - alcohol is reinforced constantly as something you can't control.
The moment you think you can control it, that's when you have that one beer, that one glass of wine and it all goes wrong again (it's never just one)

I think "full of shit" is a little harsh. It's not Scientology.

Having said that, I can imagine that in the USA there may be a lot more beaming, and sickly, huggy support and use of the world "love" which I would also hate.

In the U.K. we don't behave like that so much. It's more dry, gallows humour at meetings I've attended.

Perhaps "full of shit" was a bit harsh.

I'll retract the claim of "AA is full of shit" and restate it as "some of the people you encounter at AA can be full of shit."

And no, I wasn't going to try and put AA on the same level as a cult, like Scientology.

It clearly isn't a cult, but there are people who attend those amateur run meetings who can certainly give it a cult-like atmosphere.

However, I wasn't even criticizing it on that level.

My main point of contention with the program revolves around what I think the net effect of going to those meetings for a decade or more does to a person. More importantly how it relates to my sister.

She isn't out drinking and snorting cocaine anymore, and I'm damned happy about that. However, that strong willed happy person that I used to know is gone.

What remains is poorly animated copy of her former self that addresses damn near every topic in the language of recovery.

I've never said anything about it to her, and I'm sure one could mount a rational defense that AA didn't do that to her, but I think otherwise.

 

[Jbagz]

Full of shit? I don't know. But in the USA judges routinely send people to AA even though there are no public stats on how successful they are. I'm suspicious - there was a good article about this in Atlantic Monthly recently.

I've been getting treatment for alcoholism this past year by seeing a conventional psychologist. If I lived in Finland, I'd go to outpatient facility where they embrace drug treatment to a much greater extent.

Yes, my girlfriend was offered by the court to complete an alcohol education program that included attending several AA meetings.

In exchange, the charges of the DUI were essentially dropped. Probation Before Judgement (PBJ) is what it is commonly called in the US.

She had a choice to not do it, but the alternative was a facing a hefty fine and a DUI conviction that carries repercussions of its own.

I went with her to a couple of meetings because she was so afraid. A Korean gal, who spoke English, but didn't really understand what was going on in those meetings.

I even felt extremely uncomfortable in them. It was like being dropped into a group of good intentioned zombies that spoke in the language of recovery.