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Lars Lust

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In the early late Edo period – around year 1800 – the services of a prostitute at one of the post-stations along Tokaido or Nakasendo cost between 300 and 500 mon. Let’s make it 400 mon, for simplicity’s case. At the same time, a bowl of soba at an inn cost around 16 mon. Let’s put the cost for the same soba today at 500 yen.

This tells us that FS around 200 years ago cost the Edo punter the equivalent of 25 bowls of soba. Today that would be 25 x 500 yen = 12,500 yen, not so far from today’s prices. We are here talking about the lower end of the market, of course. Services of Oiran, the highest ranked courtesan in Yoshiwara, cost very many times more.

12,500 yen will get you FS from a Chinese girl in Gotanda, or from delivery health shops with Thai girls. You might even get it from a Japanese girl you have picked up at Kirari, or other deai places. Plus the cost of the hotel, of course.

But, and there is a big “but”: at that time it was for the night. On the other hand, would I really want to spend the night with a Gotanda och Kirari girl, even if it was available for that modest price? I think not.

Fascinating facts I picked up from one of the best books I have read on Edo society:
“Selling Women – Prostitution, markets, and the household in early modern Japan” by Amy Stanley, Assistant Professor of History, Northwestern University, (University of California Press, 2012).

The Edo authorities had an ambivalent view on prostitution. It was seen as something unavoidable, but that needed to be strictly regulated and monitored. Pretty much like today. Almost all girls were sold by impoverished families into prostitution, for an agreed length of time. Many from what today is the Niigata prefecture. That was true also for the top girls of Yoshiwara.

This is where it becomes really interesting. In Confucian Edo the authorities generally viewed these girls positively, and often sided with them in conflicts with brothel owners, for example if they run away before finishing their contracts. In Confucian societies filial piety is one of the foremost virtues, and the girls were seen as sacrificing themselves for their parents and families. And society at large shared this view. The girls generally were accepted back into their communities after finishing their contracts, and could often go on to marry local boys.

The attitude was very different towards women who were seen as going into prostitution for their own gain, instead of being sold by their families. These women were called “widows”. Many had indeed lost their husbands and probably didn’t have many other options. But some simply choose this way freely. Regardless, society's view on these “widows” was condemning, and they could not expect any support from the authorities.
 
Interesting stuff! The sex industry has such a diverse history. Everything from sex in return for good and services, money exchanges, religious "temple" prostitutes taking part in ceremonial sex, peace offerings etc. Nowadays, it seems to have boiled down to a simple money transaction.
 
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Aw that last sentence is kind of disheartening. Goes to show that societies can’t handle women who are ambitious and want to make it big for themselves.

I do think the attitude towards sex workers was generally not bad indeed. One of my favorite movies is about oiran, and there is a scene where the sempai of the main character marries the son of a rich guy, and later in the movie the main character gets a marriage proposal of a rich and important samurai. So there was definitely not a “these women are too gross to marry” attitude, at least for the high end ladies.
 
I wonder what sort of influence of Christianity and American attitudes in general towards "Working women" were what changed the tune of society post WW2, or possibly just the amount of women who had to get jobs in general or how the job market has become.
There have been a few societies where historically Evening Ladies were seen as either just another job, a holy right, a artistic job like any other entertainer, or something a woman did as an act of sacrifice for her family and generally ran from being accepted, to respected, to even revered. A lot of these societies it's a straight light between colonialism and that societies attitudes changing towards these women. (After all once you justify degrading one section of your own population for no reason you can accept being degraded by someone else, as long as they're not on this new bottom rung people will weirdly accept a lot of bullshit.)

I really hope the attitude towards sex workers will swing back into favour again, it's just better around for everyone when it is, people can get what they want when they want it like any other service, and it's safer with more options when it's legal and out in the open. Just like any other service you'll have your lower end shops and your higher end ones and then the super expensive that only a rare few get to try. It's when it's illegal and suppressed that you get weird things happening in dark corners and people getting hurt because they have no where to go and no one to turn to.
 
I wonder what sort of influence of Christianity and American attitudes in general towards "Working women" were what changed the tune of society post WW2, or possibly just the amount of women who had to get jobs in general or how the job market has become.

Well I've already given one relevant reference on that topic but the "I didnt get past JSTOR" answer is "not so much" in regards to Christianity and certainly less than Gender Studies or any Grudge Studies theorists would have one think.

A lot of these societies it's a straight light between colonialism and that societies attitudes changing towards these women.

Having read some of the literature on that, it seems that its less about colonialism (though the British at least pretended to be uptight about it while privately whoring like madmen) than about the fact that sex work was never in fact as free/open/sacred as the theorists would have us believe or at least they dont have any really good proof of their claims. Very often it comes down to "well I guess it was like this based on what might be how this artifact looks" and mot often blaming colonialism for all the evils of the world and all the pretended or made up evils is in fact a good sign of intellectual laziness or outright lies on the part of some very corrupted segments of academia.
 
Maybe Yoshiwara is one of the hot spots in Edo.
I was very intrigued, when I read their historical story.

There was an assult of a Thai escort girl, was stabbed, killed last month in North exit LH of Uguisudani, as most of you remember. I tried to stay away from that area for awhile, in order to not pick up certain unknown energy there.

But, when I went there recently, I saw the graveyard top of the hill accrossed from the station, read the story of burried mixed graveyard of play mate girls at one of the shrines in South exit, made me think, it could be bloody, unpurified, grey zone district...So, that made me think, "it should be ok. " and I go there sometimes again, but sorry but not to Savoy, which I was a heavy user, even an Asian hotel staff noticed me pretty often back then...

Also, another significant point to mention is that, after read the history of Uguisudani LH, used to be a PU tourists spot for over night stayers, who get off long distance train at Ueno, and now I see that's why, there are some Japanese traditional, old fashioned tatami room LH exist, in that area. I recently like "St. Moritz". with a mix of tradition. Large bathtab, spacious room is a bonus. (^^)
 
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In the early late Edo period – around year 1800 – the services of a prostitute at one of the post-stations along Tokaido or Nakasendo cost between 300 and 500 mon. Let’s make it 400 mon, for simplicity’s case. At the same time, a bowl of soba at an inn cost around 16 mon. Let’s put the cost for the same soba today at 500 yen.

This tells us that FS around 200 years ago cost the Edo punter the equivalent of 25 bowls of soba. Today that would be 25 x 500 yen = 12,500 yen, not so far from today’s prices. We are here talking about the lower end of the market, of course. Services of Oiran, the highest ranked courtesan in Yoshiwara, cost very many times more.

12,500 yen will get you FS from a Chinese girl in Gotanda, or from delivery health shops with Thai girls. You might even get it from a Japanese girl you have picked up at Kirari, or other deai places. Plus the cost of the hotel, of course.

But, and there is a big “but”: at that time it was for the night. On the other hand, would I really want to spend the night with a Gotanda och Kirari girl, even if it was available for that modest price? I think not.

Fascinating facts I picked up from one of the best books I have read on Edo society:
“Selling Women – Prostitution, markets, and the household in early modern Japan” by Amy Stanley, Assistant Professor of History, Northwestern University, (University of California Press, 2012).

The Edo authorities had an ambivalent view on prostitution. It was seen as something unavoidable, but that needed to be strictly regulated and monitored. Pretty much like today. Almost all girls were sold by impoverished families into prostitution, for an agreed length of time. Many from what today is the Niigata prefecture. That was true also for the top girls of Yoshiwara.

This is where it becomes really interesting. In Confucian Edo the authorities generally viewed these girls positively, and often sided with them in conflicts with brothel owners, for example if they run away before finishing their contracts. In Confucian societies filial piety is one of the foremost virtues, and the girls were seen as sacrificing themselves for their parents and families. And society at large shared this view. The girls generally were accepted back into their communities after finishing their contracts, and could often go on to marry local boys.

The attitude was very different towards women who were seen as going into prostitution for their own gain, instead of being sold by their families. These women were called “widows”. Many had indeed lost their husbands and probably didn’t have many other options. But some simply choose this way freely. Regardless, society's view on these “widows” was condemning, and they could not expect any support from the authorities.
Nice post. The cost of soba and the cost of sex remaining constant in relation to each other doesn’t really surprise me. The other one like this I read about someplace is the cost of a good tailored suit in London vs the price of an ounce of gold. The writer claimed that it had remained roughly one for one for a couple hundred years.
 
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Even in Edo period, there were different class of services just like nowadays.

Lowest option is probably Yotaka (夜鷹) that’s like 100 mon (about 2,500yen) women were older, often some type of STI positive, walk around dark area at late night with straw mat, whenever they have a client, they put the mat in bushes, have sex for like 10 minutes.

Basically, the only legal pink district in Edo area was Yoshiwara only but they had so many other places they could find professionals, 飯盛り(Meshimori, they were located in post-stations. Original meaning is house keeper, helping guest with meal. But they did more than that.) 矢場 (archery range, sort of gambling place) 岡場所 (illegal brothel) 陰間茶屋(brothel for gay guys) and many more. It is interesting, gay escort was more expensive than female escort.

太夫/花魁 in Yoshiwara was the top escort of course. Until the mid Edo period, you were not allowed to sleep with them until your third visit. They even didn’t talk to you or look at you yet you still had to pay so much money for her time. You had to go through curtain process to see them such as having feast at 引手茶屋, call 花魁 to the feast (they performed 花魁道中 on the way to the feast) other than that, lots of gifts, tip to their owener, sometimes all other girls and workers in their shop 総花, over all, you had to spend 4-6 million yen to become their clients and after that, you were not allowed to see other girls. If they found out that you had “an affair” with some other girl at different shop, you were waited at the main gate next morning by 禿, Kamuro, trainee, little young girls age 5 - 13 and their shop staff and you would get punished. Lol.
But of course Yoshiwara was not just all about 花魁, they also had many different class of brothels and girls. 大見世、中見世、小見世, the lowest rank of ladies were gathered around the edge of the district at 切見世 / 河岸見世. They charged about 2500yen for 30 minutes.
It is so sad while there were a few girls that could make so much money, there were also many girls who had to sell themselves at the cheapest price in the same Yoshiwara district.
In any case, their average life span was 22-23. That tells us how harsh life they equally had.
 
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In any case, their average life span was 22-23. That’s tell us how harsh life they equally had.
In today's terms, that's truly horrifying to think about.

Thanks for the informative post as usual. That's some amazing insight....
 
@TAG Manager

If you want hear more about it, book me an overnight date.
I will tell you all the sex work history of Japan beginning from the 8th century to nowadays.
I WON’T LET YOU SLEEP ;)
LOL.

The upside is that
A) The content should be a lot more interesting to listen to, compared to your normal history texts.
B) You are far hotter than my college professor was during my course on European/Asian history, lol.

:cat:
 
@TAG Manager

If you want hear more about it, book me an overnight date.
I will tell you all the sex work history of Japan beginning from the 8th century to nowadays.
I WON’T LET YOU SLEEP ;)

That's Amazing knowledge, Manami.
Maybe you can release thesis paper to University of Todai!!!
 
Maybe you can release thesis paper to University of Todai!!!

Surely that would be a good subject to research in the Imperial University. Publish it at the same day as the new Emperor takes his seat as a celebratory act.

Though I must take offence on the name of "University of Todai". Unwashed are allowed to address it as "University of Tokyo", friends can call it "Todai" but the old guard will always know it as the one and only Imperial University.
 
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Surely that would be a good subject to research in the Imperial University. Publish it at the same day as the new Emperor takes his seat as a celebratory act.

Though I must take offence on the name of "University of Todai". Unwashed are allowed to address it as "University of Tokyo", friends can call it "Todai" but the old guard will always know it as the one and only Imperial University.

Thanks to your advice! (^^)
 
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now I'm tempted to book @Manami TMK for a overnight history lesson

Somehow I think she could find more ways to motivate and recognise good results than your usual teachers at school.


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