Mastering Time On Dates & Momentum

[Solong]

This can make the difference between having sex or not on a date. Guys often fail to score on dates, because they run out of time. They fail to make any moves or were too SLOW in making moves, she leaves, and the chance is gone forever. Many simply don't understand the importance of going for it when they had the chance. Worse, some women will sneakily use the clock against their dates or cut time short.

When you go on a date, be strongly aware of the time, have it running in the back of your head and focus pushing the interaction forward. Don't check your watch too much, as this can give women the wrong impression that you want to leave or she's boring, just know approximately what time it is. Develop sneaky ways to do time checks, if you need to, so your date doesn't see you, and you only need to check 1x an hour.

Many guys don't know or realize that you can go from meeting her to almost or sex, in 3 to 4 hours. And in Japan, because of the last train, you need to time your dates accordingly. You might NOT have all night, like in many Western countries. 4 hours is also a well known time frame in PUA, in which a man can develop very strong rapport with a woman, IF the chemistry is there.

Example- 6pm to 10pm (work weekday), gives you the time frame to have sex, and get her on the last train. And you should be aware of when her last train is and how far away she lives. If a date says she lives in Saitama (for example) and you are meeting in Shibuya on a work weekday for her, do the time math. It means you need to be making some moves from 8:30ish on, and trying to hit the hugging or kissing point by around 9pm.

You need more time to work up to hugging and kissing? Start the date early on the weekends. However, let me tell you and contrary to popular belief or double-talk women can say, 4 hours is a time frame that is extremely viable. When a woman likes you and in the mood, they will have sex. Don't be fooled by any lies or double-talk that many women use to HIDE what they do.

Momentum

This is VERY important for any PUA to understand. When you fail to convert the date to sex, you might lose the chance at a next time or must start again from almost scratch, as if the last date didn't happen. Why?

1) Whatever emotional feelings she had on that date, can be lost as time moves on. The more DELAY between dates, the worse it gets. She might start to forget you or becomes preoccupied by other things.

This is especially a problem in Japan, where Japanese women are famous for delaying or postponing dates. Instead of the date being 3 days later, it's next week, 3 weeks later, next month...

2) Other guys can move into the picture.

The more time that goes by, the more likely another guy(s) will enter and is talking to her or asking her out. Many women are very FICKLE, and will keep jumping to dating another new guy, until somebody finally has sex with her and she forms a bond.

3) On each next date, you will AGAIN have to deal with her nervousness and panicking about sex, until you do it.

Some women become more relaxed each time they see you, but that is IF they are seeing you OFTEN. 2x or more in a week is positive, 1x a week or weeks/months later is negative.

If your next date is 2 or 3 weeks later, and especially with Japanese women, she may still be excessively nervous.

Some women can be even more ANTI-sexual the next time, not less, if she even meets you or shows up. On the 2nd and 3rd dates, she might even be aware of your moves or what you will do, and can even anti-romatically think up ways to block you. The beginning of her FRIEND-ZONING you and stopping any romantic relationship from ever happening.

Many women, and particularly in Japan, won't calm down until after you actually had sex. For many excessively nervous or panicking type women, SEX can actually CALM them down, as the big hurdle has been crossed. They can stop worrying and enjoy the relationship. But until you cross the "sex barrier", the behavior of a woman can be very difficult to deal with.

On average, sex on the 2nd or 3rd date is as much a GAMBLE, as on the first. There is no telling for sure which way it will go. Which is why you should use your time wisely and make each chance count. Don't waste time and assume there will be a next time, because there might NOT be.

 

[Solong]

Time Trapping

This is a highly overlooked art often glanced over or not mentioned in many styles of PUA.

I do this both verbally and in messages. It's important that you are much more subtle and disguise it when doing it in messages and e-mails. This is because women will look at your messages and some will realize that their response means sex is possible, so they can panick (even not show up) or give a type of anti-sexual resistance (excessively defensive about sex).

Note- This is particularly a problem in Japan, where women can be overly paranoid about their sexual reputation and falsely believe men are gossiping about them online or to pals. Many women don't realize that men (especially many foreign men that don't type or read Japanese) don't usually do this and other women are more likely to do this, or the whole world isn't watching them and doesn't care what they do. Often this is a carry over from high school thinking and very childish. Nevertheless, guys have to deal with it.

You can be a bit more direct on the phone, just not as much when you meet her. On the date itself, you can be much more direct, when talking to her . She is there with you, so you don't have to worry about her not showing up. I also often get a lot of time trapping info when I first meet women (sarging), along with basic info (your name, hobbies, foods you like, etc...) This can help plan out dates in advance.

Be aware of what her schedule is. Get clues BEFORE the date AND check EARLY DURING the date, to get a good idea of the time you have or her thinking of changing her plans in reference to time.

Many women won't tell you their schedule or time they have available unless ASKED. Don't assume how much time you have, then be SURPRISED when she has to leave. Better to ask and find out.

1) Can she move away (if in a club and SNL) from her group of friends and "walk" with you for 30 minutes or someplace nearby.

2) Does she live far, so most take an earlier last train?

Ask her what train station does she live near and calculate time to date location, or ask how long does it take by train from her house to where you are at.

3) Does she live CLOSE enough to take a TAXI home?

Thus, you may have MORE TIME.

4) How late does she usually stay out?

Try to get from messaging before the date.

5) What time is her last train?

6) What time does she go to and finish work?

Say she is a nurse. She might have an unusual shift schedule.

Say she is a hostess. Might be best to meet her the weekend morning.

7) Does she work 2 jobs or is a college student with a part time night job?

You may need to schedule the date much earlier in the day, as she will leave early.

8) Is she off tomorrow or the next day you plan to go on date?

Note- Some women will try to make the date ON their day off. It can be that meeting her the workday before is better, as she is off the next day, so can stay out LATE or ALL NIGHT.

9) Does she have any events planned or has a rigid schedule for physical exercise, hobbies, or classes?

This can be a warning sign that she will try to end the date early or can't/won't stay out all night, so you need to SPEED things up.

 

[Solong]

Thinking 3 Moves Ahead

I wanted to elaborate further about "time trapping". As a guy, think of yourself as playing Chess with a woman. You need to THINK out 3 or 4 moves ahead of the women you are dealing with.

She, the woman, can be all silly, fuzzy, confused, or in denail about sex. But as the guy, better you are very clear about what's going on and/or how you are going to have sex with her. Planning in advance is very good, especially in a meeting/date scenario, but you being situationally aware and opportunistic is also very important. Especially if you are sarging/searching/clubbing.

I will give an example, so that it can help guys studying PUA. Met up with some American women in Roppongi on Saturday night. Just happened to meet them outside of the club and started a casual conversation. I choose the one that gave me the best vibe. By her body language, her facial expressions, her eyes, and the ENTHUSIASM she showed when we talked.

I verbally and indirectly clarified the possibility of sex, by figuring out what her schedule was like, what she was planning to do, and understanding what she is up to.

You pull VITAL information out of women in a casual conversation, BEFORE asking for her contact info or escalating to hugging and kissing on a date.

I want to emphasize this, about pulling key information from a woman before even asking for contact info, because this often decides if: 1) I want to escalate to sex that same day we have met and are talking, 2) how I will go about setting up dates in messages/e-mails, 3) how I should go about trying to have sex with her the NEXT time we meet.

I might even write some notes (be quick and in general, more memory mnemonics) about the women I've met later and even score her from 1 to 10, after getting her contact info. The key here, is how much did you LEARN about her?

Make a comment about how she is dressed, shoes, fingernails, or hair... start a conversation. Then ask about her and make mental notes.

Important- the conversation is NOT linear nor does the questions have to be in any particular order, and you are free to deviate or segue into more detail or other topics. This is just a guide.

1) How was she dressed (conservative, bold, fashionable)?

2) Her hobbies?

3) Does she ever play any sports or go to the gym?

4) Any yoga, dancing, or clubbing?

1 to 4 can reflect her physicality, self confidence about her body, and even sexual ability.

5) Does she like drinking alcohol?

6) Can she cook?

7) Does she like eating out?

8) What kind of food does she like?

5 to 8 is setting up a future date.

9) Was she born in Tokyo (in the city)?

10) She lives near what train station?

11) Does she live by herself or family?

12) College student or job?

13) What time she finish work?

14) Is she off tomorrow? etc...

8 to 14 is starting to paint a picture of if sex is possible and about the logistics of any future date.

See the flow? The conversation could start about what shoes she is wearing to a date or her giving clues she is up for going to the hotel.

And even if she is ambiguous about her free time later, you have to mentally fill in the pieces of the puzzle she isn't giving you.

With the American woman I met, the one I was talking to is an English teacher who was staying at her friend's apartment. Her friend was gone for the week. She was therefore alone in the apartment. Her other girlfriends lived in a different part of Tokyo. And I knew this, by our general conversation, before I started to physically escalate.

As we were leaving the club in the morning (a long story by itself), I suggested we take a taxi together, as her place was on my way home. Her girlfriends took the train back with some other guy friends they knew. This of course is a bit different than the usual Japanese scenario, because many Western women don't have to hug up on each other like paranoid lesbians, as too many Japanese women do.

Separated from her girlfriends, and in the taxi, we talked about the people in the plane killed by the German suicide pilot in the news. What would we do with 8 minutes left to live? That moment, I kissed her. We then started kissing a lot. This is a key element of the conversational ability and situational awareness that some of my other swinger pals and I have developed. When we see a good opportunity, we go for it.

When we arrived near her place, I explained that I'm off today, so will walk her home. That led to hand holding, me pretending to be sleepy and needing a nap (and joked about her cooking me breakfast), then going to her friend's apartment where we had sex.

A key here is women aren't going to usually make it obvious or say "Hey let's go fuck now!" And often, women are in a state of confusion or will keep playing coy right up until you have her dripping vaginal juice on your hand or her stroking your penis.

You, the guy, should have an opportunistic mind and figure out HOW the sex is going to happen. And women can help you. But usually NOT directly, but more they give you HINTS of what is possible and what she might like to do. You then think ahead of her. It's to a guy's advantage to have a firm grasp of the situation and HER situation.

 

[Ladylisa]

Nah... I prefer to be the one with the opportunistic mind and figure out how the sex is going to happen.
And when I've decided I'll *tell* him how it's going to go down - all he needs to do is wait and enjoy the ride.

Worse, some women will sneakily use the clock against their dates or cut time short.

Haha... That just makes it better. I did that to my last date. I had already decided I wanted to sleep with him, but the teasing was such a nice dance.

 

[Solong]

Nah... I prefer to be the one with the opportunistic mind and figure out how the sex is going to happen.
And when I've decided I'll *tell* him how it's going to go down - all he needs to do is wait and enjoy the ride.


Haha... That just makes it better. I did that to my last date. I had already decided I wanted to sleep with him, but the teasing was such a nice dance.

Ladylisa (and your partner Meiji), PUA for women and men is very different. More women like yourself, that can embrace their sexuality are needed.

A woman dictating terms to desperate men is easy (especially if she is young and/or good looking). Nobody will debate a woman's ability to wreck havoc when wearing a mini skirt and giving boys a wink.

For men, the game is quite different. And while in your ivory tower, you may not have noticed it's more difficult than ever on men. So this is to help men, with women. Please do have some consideration, and being truly helpful is greatly appreciated.

As mentioned in previous threads (yes, no, maybe concept). If a woman has decided she will have sex with a man, things can go pretty smoothly. However, as you know, a woman can change her mind. Yes, can become no or maybe. And many guys are stuck in the maybe category, so need to figure their way out if possible or not blow it when the woman was initially thinking "yes".

 

[TAG Manager]

For men, the game is quite different. And while in your ivory tower, you may not have noticed it's more difficult than ever on men

I don't think that's a very fair comment. If you're putting women up on a pedestal or in that 'Ivory Tower', I think that's a perception issue.
Of course the game is different for each sex, but I bet the women have to weed out a lot more trash than you'd might expect.

Maybe I'll get flamed for this statement, but it's my belief that the majority of men are after quantity over quality and for the women, it's reversed.

 

[just4fun]

I don't think that's a very fair comment. If you're putting women up on a pedestal or in that 'Ivory Tower', I think that's a perception issue.
Of course the game is different for each sex, but I bet the women have to weed out a lot more trash than you'd might expect.

Maybe I'll get flamed for this statement, but it's my belief that the majority of men are after quantity over quality and for the women, it's reversed.

I'm a quality over quantity guy myself. I'd rather go without than have nightmares later on in life.

 

[Solong]

I don't think that's a very fair comment. If you're putting women up on a pedestal or in that 'Ivory Tower', I think that's a perception issue.
Of course the game is different for each sex, but I bet the women have to weed out a lot more trash than you'd might expect.

Maybe I'll get flamed for this statement, but it's my belief that the majority of men are after quantity over quality and for the women, it's reversed.

It's actually the opposite, I don't by default put women on a pedestal. I believe in true equality and fairness between the sexes, to include women being held equally accountable for their actions, like men.

A man that blindly puts women on a pedestal is called a SIMP ( Someone Idolizing Mediocre P*ssy)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=simp
Actually, definition number 2 and 4 are the correct ones, in common usage by people who know any better.

"A man that puts himself in a subservient/submissive position under women in hopes of winning them over, without the female bringing anything to the table."

I would be the exact opposite, as expect women to bring equal value to the table, in addition to fairness.

Quality VS Quantity

My opinion, is that men and women are seeking the same end result, but go down different paths and have different "tools" that the use. This is also why I argue men must play their version of the game differently from women.

Women often have many guys orbiting around them (also called orbiters in PUA), especially younger and prettier ones, so have a greater luxury of choice. That she will or won't have sex tonight, can simply be based on her mood or open-mindedness. Where for a man, he can be forced to spend money for very basic sexual needs.

Women can also be more passive (and more in denial) in the game that they play, because testosterone laced men will be approaching them and making offers.

As men, we are usually more active and doing the approaching. So we are actively filtering women. We often sift through women until we find one that we like.

Both men and women have an ideal type of partner in mind. It's a matter of settling or learning to get what you want. That's where "quality" comes in. Will you just settle for any woman just to have sex, or will you expect more of her?

And a woman might not like the options she has available around her, so takes a more active role in seeking out guys that she wants. A guy might not like his options, so chooses a different METHOD to get at the type of women he wants. Some of us, both men and women, will be more successful than others.